the religions of Firefly by pedme84

FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

the religions of Firefly

POSTED BY: PEDME84
UPDATED: Tuesday, February 4, 2003 00:01
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Sunday, November 17, 2002 7:55 PM

i have to gush about the theme of Faith in firefly!

it's a fav theme for me, with my love of mythology and mysticism.

my initial response when i saw the shepard was, "you're thousands of years into the future and lightyears away from the earth, and the best you can do is christianity? BORING!"

and if America and China were the two superpowers left, where's chinese buddhism? taoism? confucious?

then in jaynestown we see that to "companion" involves rituals, and tea ceremonies (something i'll be doing next week in my zen class, yay!). and her vessel was a sanctified place of union. this is typical asian stuff. i know that, in japan at least, that as buddhism came in and people were adapting to moving away from shinto, the sacred postitute became a vessel for enlightenment. she would be brought with all the respect and reverence of a companion to buddhist monasteries where she would show the monks enlightenment so to speak.

and also in that episode there was the shepard's lessons to river about Faith. and i love the line "i tore these out of your symbol, but they turned into paper." and also the idea was put forth by jayne's journey, that it's not the belief itself that matters, it's what it does for you.

and, now in ariel, the moment that makes me the most happy is when we're told that the shepard's meditating on rock gardens! holy sh/t! that's soooooo coool!

so is the shepard not christian, and not buddhist, but the combination of the two? if so, i'm drooling! i'm giddy! that's so f-ing cool! and, waah, talk about my fantasy job!!!

omigod, meshing buddhism and christianity into one. omigod!

i'm completely flipping out! omigosh, i'm gonna cry, 'cause designing religions like that is one of the most fun things to do on the planet! i have a feeling that when i've finally seen the whole season, it'll be coming right after Neon Genesis Evangelion in the "omigod, this is it! this is perfection!" category.

OMIGOD! WOW WOW WOW! i can't gush enough! WOW WOW WOW!

- emily

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Tuesday, November 19, 2002 4:29 AM

QUEENTIYE

Quote:
Originally posted by pedme84:
i have to gush about the theme of Faith in firefly!

it's a fav theme for me, with my love of mythology and mysticism.

my initial response when i saw the shepard was, "you're thousands of years into the future and lightyears away from the earth, and the best you can do is christianity? BORING!"

Not necessarily! I think we all know that the Christianity of today is significantly different than the Christianity of the Puritans... I'd like to know what's different, and what social and political factors make them different... and btw, we aren't thousands of years into the future - only 500...

Quote:
and if America and China were the two superpowers left, where's chinese buddhism? taoism? confucious?

I agree here... I'd like to see these religions as well... BUT, the existance of superpowers doesn't negate the existance of other religions... where is yoroba? islam? hinduism?

Quote:
then in jaynestown we see that to "companion" involves rituals, and tea ceremonies (something i'll be doing next week in my zen class, yay!). and her vessel was a sanctified place of union. this is typical asian stuff. i know that, in japan at least, that as buddhism came in and people were adapting to moving away from shinto, the sacred postitute became a vessel for enlightenment. she would be brought with all the respect and reverence of a companion to buddhist monasteries where she would show the monks enlightenment so to speak.

K. I didn't see Jaynestown... can you clarify a bit about the rituals? Tea ceremonies I understand, if the culture is a fusion of chinese and some english-speaking culture... and I can understand the companions having to understand quite a lot of different tea ceremonies, as the ceremony for Tea in England is certainly different than it is in China, and possibly different than it is in Japan. Having said that, there is nothing here that definitively says that this is religious. So, I'd like to know more (companion academy and the role of companions is something I'd like to know more about anyway....)

Quote:
and, now in ariel, the moment that makes me the most happy is when we're told that the shepard's meditating on rock gardens! holy sh/t! that's soooooo coool!

so is the shepard not christian, and not buddhist, but the combination of the two? if so, i'm drooling! i'm giddy! that's so f-ing cool! and, waah, talk about my fantasy job!!!

Christians meditate in rock gardens today (some...)... Ecumenical movements encourage the sharing of these types of rituals to enrich one's own practice, and to further dialogue across religious boundaries. So we don't know yet if there is a merge of the two traditions or not. BUT...if it were... COOLNESS!!!

Quote:
i'm completely flipping out! omigosh, i'm gonna cry, 'cause designing religions like that is one of the most fun things to do on the planet! i have a feeling that when i've finally seen the whole season, it'll be coming right after Neon Genesis Evangelion in the "omigod, this is it! this is perfection!" category.

LOL!!! I can relate. I hope that this pans out... and I'll be glad to join you in this discussion... I'm hoping my working theory of the companions pans out too (that they are the modern-day pyschologists of this time - and thanks to Delvo for helping crystallize that theory into some cohesive intelligent words!)

Isn't it fun when a sci-fi show gives you the chance to explore human possibilities this way?

QueenTiye, Companion Academy, class of 2006

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Tuesday, November 19, 2002 1:53 PM

RHEA

Quote:
Originally posted by pedme84:
my initial response when i saw the shepard was, "you're thousands of years into the future and lightyears away from the earth, and the best you can do is christianity? BORING!"

Actually, only 500 years in the future. The opening says the year is 2517.

I agree that the religious aspect is fascinating. I was an anthro major, so I'm always enthralled by stuff like this.

I think that the Companion stuff is only slightly modified from the Japanese geisha. Certainly the calligraphy and the tea ceremony are straight from that book. It wouldn't surprise me if Inara turned up playing a samisen in a future episode.

And I'd love to know whether the myths and the Bible that Saffron quoted exist (whoa, good myth!) or she made them up for the occasion. That would be the sexiest Bible ever.

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Friday, November 22, 2002 3:47 PM

PEDME84

dude, some people actually responded to this post! posting boards are so cool, it's the only way i can actually have this conversation instead of just sitting alone in my room being my overbrimmingly giddy self

so, instead of watching firefly tonight, i'll post.

so, yeah, the combining of eastern and western ideas is already happening now and has been for long time. and i don't mean pop integration of eastern thought. the theosophists are one group that pulls them together along with what seems like EVERYTHING else. they're crazy, it's so cool!

meditating on rock gardens is chinese, it would be influenced by their taoist frame of reference. it's all about that flow that is that oneness. most christians are really not monistic. i'll try talking to someone who's christian and they're like "um, it's about jesus." but there's that theory that jesus went to india for a while for a reason. touches of monism are in there.

(just in case: like "monotheism" means one god, "monism" means like one essence, one energy, all is one kind of deal. like the emmersonian oversoul or the force

)

in chinese buddhism there's that essence that is everything and nothing. it's a flow. it unfolds into forms. even though form is illusion. the rock garden a place to meditate on that.

and then there's the parallels between jesus and buddha. virgin birth is a duh. but the three temptations is pretty nifty.

all life is suffering is compatible with original sin. it totally works! i wouldn't have thought they'd mesh so well.

you brought up the lack of all the other religions in the world. well, they kinda need a thematic purpose so i won't be crying if we don't see any more.

but since this is a western, i was wondering about native americans. but how could there even be a native american community. i think there would be. keep in mind, in order to be considered a part of the cherokee tribe, you only gotta be 1/64 cherokee. i do not kid! they need a certain amount of people living on their reservation in order to not loose it. also, i've often wondered about how it's a religion that you really don't convert to. its totally tied in with the bloodline. maybe... in 500 years time, that's not true anymore and black, white and purple people can be following the native american religion. but also, native americans' desire to relish in their culture is strong enough that i think, they'd survive the end of the earth and they'd come together somewhere else, slow as the process may have to be, a few hundred years should suffice. would the government still be trying to exterminate them? would then be cool to play with. they still do now.

and what was with that random woman in "train job" walking around dressed like a muslim out of the desert? now, i love islam, i think it's one of the most beautiful things. if they play with that, or they pull in rumi, that's it. i'm done for. television just couldn't get better for me. (american, anyway. as far as use of myth goes, nothing ever comes close to evangelion. i am in utter awe of that series.)

and, yeah, there are some pretty sexy passages in the bible. i don't know about the one that was used in "our mrs. reynolds" but i know that the song of solomon gets a little sexy. i could swear there's more graphic things in there than that one though, can't remember.

k, that's all for now. i could babble endlessly on this topic if i'm not careful

laters!

- emily

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Friday, November 22, 2002 7:55 PM

QUEENTIYE

emily... very cool post... I'll be back!

QT

QueenTiye, Companion Academy, class of 2006

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Saturday, November 23, 2002 4:18 AM

DELVO

Wait there QT, I can't take credit/blame for this psychologist thing. You got to there from "psychiatrist" all by yourself.

(And even THAT, I said before Shindig...)

The combination of different religions and philosophies is pretty common. I discovered Buddhism through the martial arts, and found out that as long as you're talking about real Buddhism (the philosophy promoted by Buddha), not that Hindu-like religion (mostly found in Tibet) that gets CALLED Buddhism, you can essentially be a Buddhist and still be almost any religion. Most American martial artists who have any religion, for example, are Christians, but they're also Buddhists. I even have a book in which the author constantly calls his way of thinking Buddhist and certainly speaks of Buddhist principles and their application in life, but peppers the book with a whole bunch of direct quotes of Jesus's lines from the Bible as support for it.

But anyway, this combining of religions is something I'm often very wary of, because the way most people do it just screams "New Age pretentiousness!" at me; the charlettans just spout catchphrases and figure they'll reel in whatever suckers want to have a religion, any religion, as long as it's not "traditional" and "narrow". This crowd of people would be expected to portray any development of a religion that's not identical to religions that have existed in the past as a good thing, making all new religions happy and loving and superior for their open-mindedness in having taking in pieces of so many. And that's why I'm a little bit worried about how the religions are portrayed on this show.

So far, we've seen two invented, "new" religions and one that appeared traditional. Book is a good guy full of peace and love and all that, and Saffron's religion (which I'll treat as "real" in the show because even if she didn't follow it, others seemed to know of religions like it), although rather silly-sounding, seems harmless enough. But then we get to the old-style witch-burning religion, which refers to Christian witch-burning and no other sources or significant deviations. And low and behold, "old" religion is the enemy.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending traditional religion. You should see the rant I could spout off about religions in general if I got started. But I'm an "equal-opportunity" religion-hater. And every invented, new religion I've seen has just been a rehashing of the same old stuff, not an improvement or replacement... and therefor just as bad in just the same old ways. In fact, the two religions that have been the most responsible for my disdain of religion in general were both invented themselves, even if not in the modern era. But if a show's going to keep on making New Agism in various forms be the good guys and traditional past religions be the bad guys, then its portrayal of religions will only detract from the show.

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Saturday, November 23, 2002 8:16 PM

QUEENTIYE

Quote:
Originally posted by pedme84:
so, yeah, the combining of eastern and western ideas is already happening now and has been for long time. and i don't mean pop integration of eastern thought. the theosophists are one group that pulls them together along with what seems like EVERYTHING else. they're crazy, it's so cool!

Yes - I like the theosophists myself - particularly because of their belief that there is truth to be found in the heart of all religious expression. Although there is sometimes a degree of arrogance that I can't always quite put my finger on - something like a superiority that I think is mostly unjustified.

Quote:
meditating on rock gardens is chinese, it would be influenced by their taoist frame of reference. it's all about that flow that is that oneness. most christians are really not monistic. i'll try talking to someone who's christian and they're like "um, it's about jesus." but there's that theory that jesus went to india for a while for a reason. touches of monism are in there.

Well... no. If you are talking about standard Christianity, I don't think you can claim monism. Not like that. Especially not this issue of Jesus in India. That's more of a theosophical belief. But within Traditional Christianity, you have this indwelling of the Holy Spirit, and that puts each person in a state of oneness with the Father...and then the Bible speaks of the spirit of man yearning for the spirit of God - the implications (as recognized by many Christian theologians) are that the spirit of man (the breath of life breathed into the human soul way back in Genesis) is actually part of the spirit of God, and the longing is for the divided parts to come back together...so that the goal is always wholeness, which can also be understood as oneness.

Quote:
(just in case: like "monotheism" means one god, "monism" means like one essence, one energy, all is one kind of deal. like the emmersonian oversoul or the force )

in chinese buddhism there's that essence that is everything and nothing. it's a flow. it unfolds into forms. even though form is illusion. the rock garden a place to meditate on that.

And again - comparing to christian philosphy that holds that now we see as through a veil, darkly but THEN (when heaven is achieved), we will see clearly, and we will be LIKE HIM (understood to be Jesus, but then Jesus becomes only the "first fruits" of those who are one with the Father). We see again the parallels.

Quote:
all life is suffering is compatible with original sin. it totally works! i wouldn't have thought they'd mesh so well.

Yeah. Well... it is my contention that religions (all of them) are all the same - they all teach the same truths in various forms particular to the people to whom they were revealed...which I'm going to talk about some more when I answer Delvo's post.

Quote:
you brought up the lack of all the other religions in the world. well, they kinda need a thematic purpose so i won't be crying if we don't see any more.

I'm not saying that we should be seeing them all over the place - I'm just saying that I think we should see them.

Quote:
but since this is a western, i was wondering about native americans. but how could there even be a native american community.

I wondered the same thing. 500 years into the future, one government - where do the Native American people go? But if they bring up a Native American community - the struggles of 500 years in the future simply CANNOT be the struggles of the old west.

Quote:
i think there would be. keep in mind, in order to be considered a part of the cherokee tribe, you only gotta be 1/64 cherokee. i do not kid! they need a certain amount of people living on their reservation in order to not loose it.

Really? I should go move to the reservation then! LOL!

Quote:
also, i've often wondered about how it's a religion that you really don't convert to. its totally tied in with the bloodline. maybe... in 500 years time, that's not true anymore and black, white and purple people can be following the native american religion. but also, native americans' desire to relish in their culture is strong enough that i think, they'd survive the end of the earth and they'd come together somewhere else, slow as the process may have to be, a few hundred years should suffice. would the government still be trying to exterminate them? would then be cool to play with. they still do now.

That's a charged statement... I don't think its fair to say that the government is trying to "exterminate" the Native Americans... That said, certainly the Native American struggle is a continuation of what it always was (land use issues). But the struggle has evolved and plays out in different ways - we should be seeing an evolvement on Firefly. Regarding the issue of a religion that is totally tied to the bloodline - why is that an issue? (Assuming it's even true. Every religion has some way of coopting strangers) Some interpretations of Judaism say that in order to be a Jew you have to be born of a Jewish mother. That doesn't in anyway hinder the expression of the faith. Am I missing your point?

Quote:
and what was with that random woman in "train job" walking around dressed like a muslim out of the desert?

Careful there - desert styles of dress have a lot more to do with the terrain than they do with the religion...The berbers dress very much like muslims, but they are not homogeneous in their religious beliefs.

Quote:
now, i love islam, i think it's one of the most beautiful things. if they play with that, or they pull in rumi, that's it. i'm done for. television just couldn't get better for me. (american, anyway. as far as use of myth goes, nothing ever comes close to evangelion. i am in utter awe of that series.)

Evangelion? What channel does that come on? When? What's it about? (can you tell I'm intrigued?) Yes. Rumi would be good..so would some dervishes!

QueenTiye, Companion Academy, class of 2006

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Saturday, November 23, 2002 8:19 PM

QUEENTIYE

Quote:
Originally posted by Delvo:
But anyway, this combining of religions is something I'm often very wary of, because the way most people do it just screams "New Age pretentiousness!" at me; the charlettans just spout catchphrases and figure they'll reel in whatever suckers want to have a religion, any religion, as long as it's not "traditional" and "narrow". This crowd of people would be expected to portray any development of a religion that's not identical to religions that have existed in the past as a good thing, making all new religions happy and loving and superior for their open-mindedness in having taking in pieces of so many. And that's why I'm a little bit worried about how the religions are portrayed on this show.

O.k. Here's the part I was talking about. It is true that a lot of the "New Agers" are irresponsibly pretentious, and that they often lack any critical thinking when it comes to the subject of religion. As you say - any new idea that doesn't limit itself to the main religious ideas is o.k. by them. Which - in and of itself is very limiting, as it negates the real religious experience of those within traditional religious expressions. BUT... there is another force at work (I believe). As I've said before in my post to Emily - I believe that truth is in all religions, and that the distinctions between them are specifically the cultural forms specific to the people to whom the religion was revealed. It then begs the question...where is America's prophet? Because the American people are certainly unique. It could be that America's prophet already showed up and there is some little group of followers out there who time and circumstance are going to push forward to convert the masses, or it could be that all along it was Joseph Smith... or it could be that it was someone from somewhere in America that one wouldn't expect at all... maybe an African-American, or a Native American. But - I think that the New Ager's tolerance of any and everything that comes along is at least partially driven by the knowledge, either conscious or unconscious - that America is due a prophet. (Are you banging your head against the wall yet? LOL!)

Quote:
So far, we've seen two invented, "new" religions and one that appeared traditional. Book is a good guy full of peace and love and all that, and Saffron's religion (which I'll treat as "real" in the show because even if she didn't follow it, others seemed to know of religions like it), although rather silly-sounding, seems harmless enough. But then we get to the old-style witch-burning religion, which refers to Christian witch-burning and no other sources or significant deviations. And low and behold, "old" religion is the enemy.

That's one way to look at it...but... we could also say that OLD religion is the enemy (namely the OLD puritanical interpretations of Christianity, as opposed to the more open interpretations). I mean - Christians today look down on witch-burning, even the extreme fringes that do believe in that interpretation of witchcraft. Perhaps I didn't see it this way because I have yet to interpret Book's religion as anything but Christianity. Are you saying that Book's religion is a new one?

Quote:
But if a show's going to keep on making New Agism in various forms be the good guys and traditional past religions be the bad guys, then its portrayal of religions will only detract from the show.

I agree. I hope the underlying social message of the show isn't "New Agism." I hope the show persists to be about people, and the various ways in which they create their lives in this frontier world - religion being part of that equation...

QT

QueenTiye, Companion Academy, class of 2006

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Sunday, November 24, 2002 4:10 PM

PEDME84

i just got back from the nyu tibetan sand mandala closing ceremony, so i'm all pumped up for this conversation

QueenTiye, clearly you know more about christianity than i do, so keep talking! except for islam(even there, mainly sufism), i've found studying the monotheistic religions pretty boring.

and, yeah i totally agree with your position. anything that anybody believes and loves is truth. one of my very favorite words is "perrenialism." he he he

Quote:
That's a charged statement... I don't think its fair to say that the government is trying to "exterminate" the Native Americans

actually, yeah, it is fair. the most horrifying story for me is that up through the 1980s when native women would go in to the doctor for whatever reason, they'd get their tubes tied while under anasthesia (spelling?), so they couldn't make any more native babies. they'd go home and try to have a family and wouldn't be able understand why it wasn't happening.

i took a native americans arts and traditions class last year that was unbelievable! our prof was muskogee creek so we got the right information. apparently, indians like lying to anthropologists. they think it's funny. like the "dream catcher" isn't really a dream catcher. it's an earth mandala. it's spider woman's web connecting all life.

but anyway, my prof was telling us how when he was a member of aim (american indian movement; took me a while in class to make that connection

) the government said, nope, you don't exist anymore. and he was doing really dangerous stuff like handing out flyers. his phone was tapped. he lost all the money in his bank account, he lost all records of having been employed or a student somewhere, so it was kinda difficult for him to get a job. for years he just plain did not exist.

and he was no threat! and this sort of thing happens all the time. the american government wishes they could just blast them away into the ozone. if they could get away with it, they would.

Quote:
Regarding the issue of a religion that is totally tied to the bloodline - why is that an issue? (Assuming it's even true. Every religion has some way of coopting strangers)

yeah, but have you ever heard of a native american convert? even if it existed, which it doesn't except in new age bizarro world, which religion would they convert to? every tribe is different. like you know that famous casino in connecticut, can't remember its name. they're pequot mohicans, or something that sounds like that, and they had no clue they were indian until the government told them, "guess what? you're indian. here's some land." so the first thing they did was build a casino. next they tried to get all these big native american people to come talk to them and tell them about what it means to be indian. my prof said that when they called him he said no because he can only teach them how to be muskogee creek, he can't teach them to be pequot.

and dude! futuristic dervishes! that would be f#cking cool! and they could be christian, too. several of the christian mystics are heavily influenced by the sufis. imagine Book spinning around in ecstacy over God. so cool!

Okay, Neon Genesis Evangelion is a japanese animated series. it's genius! you can rent it easily enough in the city, probably not in your basic suburb. downloading it should be easy. the first several episodes may not seem remarkably stellar to you, but hang in there. TRUST ME! this series is the greatest use of myth (and more!) in visual fiction ever!

okay, i should try and do some homework now. ugh. until next time!

- emily

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Sunday, November 24, 2002 5:52 PM

PEDME84

interestingly enough, i just watched skinwalkers on pbs. one of the main actors who was also in "windtalkers" (i think that's what that movie was called) adam beach, was saying that he wants to play an indian in the future. i'm like screaming at the tv, FIREFLY! YOU COULD PLAY A FUTURE INDIAN IN FIREFLY! sh#t, now I want to write this. i'm going nuts over here, i just may go ahead and do it anyway, just cause it would be SO MUCH FUN!

- emily

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Monday, November 25, 2002 6:59 AM

QUEENTIYE

Quote:
Originally posted by Delvo:
Wait there QT, I can't take credit/blame for this psychologist thing. You got to there from "psychiatrist" all by yourself. (And even THAT, I said before Shindig...)

O.k. Misspoke here then. Thank you for the correction - I guess I'm not saying "psychologist" in the strict sense - I'm saying "psychological counsellor." (Deep-seated prejudice against psychiatrists because of their ability to prescribe drugs to treat emotional problems... I haven't yet reconciled myself to the belief that drugs are ever the answer to psychological problems, and I am profoundly concerned about the misdiagnosis of psychological problems as psychiatric ones - meaning ones that are fundamentally physical, and therefore treatable with drugs.)

QueenTiye, Companion Academy, class of 2006

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Monday, November 25, 2002 1:12 PM

CHARLIEBLUE

Quote:
Originally posted by pedme84:
anything that anybody believes and loves is truth.

M2: Everything is true.
GP: Even false things?
M2: Even false things are true.
GP: How can that be?
M2: I don't know man, I didn't do it.

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Monday, November 25, 2002 6:58 PM

QUEENTIYE

Quote:
Originally posted by pedme84:
i just got back from the nyu tibetan sand mandala closing ceremony, so i'm all pumped up for this conversation

Tibetan monks used to come from time to time to the World Trade Center and set up the sand mandala (and take it down)... :(

Quote:
QueenTiye, clearly you know more about christianity than i do, so keep talking! except for islam(even there, mainly sufism), i've found studying the monotheistic religions pretty boring.

Well... if something comes up that I can be helpful with, I'll join in... but I'm not so adept in any one religion like that. More so, I like to try to figure out the allegories that the great religions teach.

Quote:
and, yeah i totally agree with your position. anything that anybody believes and loves is truth. one of my very favorite words is "perrenialism." he he he

What do you mean by perrenialism? And, that isn't my position at all. My position is that all religions contain truth... there is a big difference...

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Quote:
Regarding the issue of a religion that is totally tied to the bloodline - why is that an issue? (Assuming it's even true. Every religion has some way of coopting strangers)

yeah, but have you ever heard of a native american convert?

Well...that goes into another thing altogether. You'll note that I discarded most of your post - I try not to get involved in political discourse on message boards because I get too worked up.... (There's already proof on this board!)

Anyway, I'll touch on this a little bit... the fact that Native Americans are confined to reservations (even until today), that the reservations are isolated from one another geographically (making it harder for cross tribal dialogue to happen) and the fact that leaving the reservation means losing the land means that the religion is artificially frozen. A HORRIBLE thing to do to the people. I had a friend once who was huron, and her people didn't believe in taking pictures, because they believed that you capture and freeze a person's soul in the picture. Since she expressed that to me, I have trouble throwing pictures out! Anyway, for a people who believe so much in freedom and openness that they object to pictures freezing and locking in the soul - the present-day reservation system is a travesty. Mind you, I'm not suggesting that we do away with it - I don't know how to justly ensure the Native Americans their land, and their sacred spaces without it, but I can easily envision how it could be different if there were ways in which the Native Americans could be in close proximity to one another. Normal human interaction - intermarriage, childbirth, death and burials... the entire cycle of life in close proximity would FORCE some kind of adaptation. So it could be done and done well on Firefly.

Quote:
and dude! futuristic dervishes! that would be f#cking cool! and they could be christian, too. several of the christian mystics are heavily influenced by the sufis. imagine Book spinning around in ecstacy over God. so cool!

LOL!!! Yes. That would be cool! O.k. but point of information (just in case you don't mean that as an exclamation...) I am a dudette...

QT

QueenTiye, Companion Academy, class of 2006

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Saturday, December 7, 2002 1:11 PM

RAULENDYMION

I was just pleased that the captain seems to be an atheist. It is important to have strong characters on tv with are atheists to dispel the silly belief that in order to be moral, you must be a theist.

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Monday, December 9, 2002 11:15 AM

SENSOU

I'm wondering where the Unitarian Universalists are. It would not surprise me to find out that Book is one.

Sensou
Sweet is love when all is sane
Sweet is death to end the pain
Cruel is death when all is well
Cruel is love when all is hell

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Tuesday, February 4, 2003 12:01 AM

JYNK

I sorta stubled in on this one, but I wanna throw my bit in. Now in the pilot ep, when they're all around the table and Book asks to pray. The first (after Book) to bow their head is Jayne. That sorta struck me as odd. I love the big dummy, but he deosn't really have high morals. So, my question to ponder is: What religion exactly is Jayne?

I figure he could've just been respectful, but that's not really like him either.

Dear diary: Today I was pompous and my sister was crazy. ... Today we were kidnapped by hill folk, never to be seen again. It was the best day ever." - Jayne

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