Mean Girls In Shindig by Jmartine3592

FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

Mean Girls In Shindig

POSTED BY: JMARTINE3592
UPDATED: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 04:17
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Thursday, June 10, 2004 6:59 PM

Okay, when Kaylee is at the ball with Mal on Persephone and she approaches the mean girls, the conversation is like this:

MEAN GIRL: This party is not as good as last year.

KAYLEE: What'd they have?

MEAN GIRL: Standards....

Does this mean they had regular people and she was trying to insult Kaylee? Thanks.

Jayne - "It smells like crotch..."
Kaylee - "Jayne!"

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Thursday, June 10, 2004 7:26 PM

GRACEOM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jmartine3592:
Okay, when Kaylee is at the ball with Mal on Persephone and she approaches the mean girls, the conversation is like this:

MEAN GIRL: This party is not as good as last year.

KAYLEE: What'd they have?

MEAN GIRL: Standards....

Does this mean they had regular people and she was trying to insult Kaylee? Thanks.

Jayne - "It smells like crotch..."
Kaylee - "Jayne!"

I believe her implication was that last year the party guests had met society standards, and Kaylee wouldn't have made the cut. IOW, Kaylee wasn't good enough to be there. And yes, she was being deliberately insulting.

Rotten girl, being me to our Kaylee

Grace

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Friday, June 11, 2004 3:26 PM

MOOSE

Quote:
Originally posted by GraceOM:

Rotten girl, being mean to our Kaylee

Well, you know what they say about payback...

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Friday, June 11, 2004 3:38 PM

WILDHEAVENFARM

Either way, they were the most hideous bitches, but I think she was talking about the party itself.

Mary
Always a beast, never a burden.

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Friday, June 11, 2004 10:57 PM

FIREFLEW

Quote:
Originally posted by WildHeavenFarm:
Either way, they were the most hideous bitches, but I think she was talking about the party itself.

Mary
Always a beast, never a burden.

Ah, but then possible sugar daddy (

I'm kidding) insulted her mightily

Jayne: "Know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I beat you with till you understand who's in command."

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Friday, June 18, 2004 7:42 PM

ILGREVEN

Well, she did have another insult, directed at Kaylee herself, which she started "You should see your girl," meaning she either wasn't aware that Kaylee was a commoner, or rubbing it in her face...

"Bye now. Have good sex!"

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Friday, June 18, 2004 9:33 PM

OBSESSED

She was aware that Kaylee was a commoner and had bought her dress, because Kaylee had just said that when she saw the ruffles, she just couldn't resist, which strongly suggests that she picked it out and bought it, rather than having it designed.

Book: I'd forgotten - you're moonlighting as a criminal mastermind now.
Simon: No, but I'm thinking about growing a big black mustache. I'm a traditionalist.

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Thursday, July 22, 2004 5:36 AM

BRUISERSMOM

I don't think that Alliance society is as equal as our own. I think that those girls noticed that Kaylee was not from the elite and were just being mean to her by trying to make her feel inferior and by trying to make her feel like she doesn't belong at the party. The old man who rescued her may have a more egalitarian view of people from different classes and not like the lead girl who insulted Kaylee.

I was watching Out of Gas and Tim Minear mentioned that Kaylee was kind of a girl from the docks who likes engines, so I think Kaylee is from a blue collar background.

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Thursday, July 22, 2004 2:12 PM

FREMDFIRMA

I liked the old guy, he *very* strongly reminded me of Clark Gable/Rhett Butler... sauve, charming, and completely capable of politely ripping a strip off you.

I was just about laffing myself to death when she had all the old navy codgers hanging on her like that..

She's young, she's cute.. she's an ENGINEER?
booyah!

My girl says the 'pretending to be helpful' kind of meannest the society girls were pulling on Kaylee is an especially mean trick common to upperclass sorority girls, it allows them to slide sideways out of accusations of nastiness, and be even more condescending than directly insulting people would be.

Now me, I figure if the old gentleman didn't intervene, and they pushed, someone was gonna get their head dunked in a punch bowl... Kaylee may be the sweetest lil thing, but insulting a womans dress and personhood at their very first gala is sure suicide not matter how sweet they are.

-frem
diefuxdie

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Thursday, July 22, 2004 4:34 PM

GOJIRO

Quote:
Originally posted by BruisersMom:

I was watching Out of Gas and Tim Minear mentioned that Kaylee was kind of a girl from the docks who likes engines, so I think Kaylee is from a blue collar background.

Yeah, but in the ep itself, Kaylee says she's from a farm, I believe. No?

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Thursday, July 22, 2004 4:40 PM

DIXIEFLATLINE

Quote:
Originally posted by gojiro:
Quote:
Originally posted by BruisersMom:

I was watching Out of Gas and Tim Minear mentioned that Kaylee was kind of a girl from the docks who likes engines, so I think Kaylee is from a blue collar background.

Yeah, but in the ep itself, Kaylee says she's from a farm, I believe. No?

It's Mal who calls her a "prairie harpy" (before he knows anything about her, of course). Kaylee just mentions that her familiarity with fixing machines comes from helping her daddy when he's got work, which ain't that often. So it sounds like her father's a mechanic or repairman of some sort, who would probably find most of his work around the docks. Since there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of agricultural machinery in use on the border worlds, most heavy machinery would probably be in the industrial areas around spaceports.

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Friday, July 23, 2004 3:05 AM

WHISPERING

Quote:
Originally posted by Jmartine3592:
MEAN GIRL: This party is not as good as last year.

KAYLEE: What'd they have?

MEAN GIRL: Standards....

I'm a bit confused, i'm not that good in english but i think that mean girl was referring to the buffet table.

Kaylee: ...Theres some kind of hot cheese there.
Mean Girl: It's not as good as last year.
Kaylee: Oh, what did they have last year?
Mean Girl: Standards...
Kaylee: Oh...

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Friday, July 23, 2004 3:43 AM

STATIC

Quote:
Originally posted by whispering:
I'm a bit confused, i'm not that good in english but i think that mean girl was referring to the buffet table.

Kaylee: ...Theres some kind of hot cheese there.
Mean Girl: It's not as good as last year.
Kaylee: Oh, what did they have last year?
Mean Girl: Standards...
Kaylee: Oh...

Actually. . .look at the COMPLETE context. . .

K: Isn't this the greatest party? Everyone's so fancy. . .and there's some kind of hot cheese over there.

MG: It's not as good as last year.

See. . .Kaylee's original statement was about the party as a whole.

==================================================
"Wash. . .we got some local color happening. A grand entrance would not go amiss."

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Friday, July 23, 2004 4:49 AM

BARNSTORMER

I always took that response of "Standards" as a reference to something like a "Standard government meal pack" or some such.

So Banning was responding to Kaylees delight in the Posh, high quality buffet table with a poorly veiled insult that says she thinks the food provided was'nt up to the ranks of a K-ration or something.

Kind of like saying that only "trailer trash" like Kaylee could possibly see the food on the buffet table as anything to get excited about.

Then Banning (being the wonderful person that she undoubtedly is) followed that insult with one about Kaylees dress.

Am I a Lion?... No, I think I'ma tellin' the truth.

BarnStormer

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Friday, July 23, 2004 6:11 AM

KOZURE

Standards = standards of people they invited to the party last year.

The mean girl is implying that last year they had higher standards for the people they let in, thus also implying that Kaylee is low-class.

I think Gracedom and a few other people have already nailed the insult on the nose without the need to get overly complicated.

Kozure the Kamikaze Highlander

Proud Citizen of Canada-That-Was

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Friday, July 23, 2004 7:21 AM

LIZ

It's Cabott that says the "standards" line. (i always saw it as in "standards of people invited" -- like, "how did you get in?" and i stick to that). Then Banning mentions the dress.

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Friday, July 23, 2004 10:01 AM

NOOCYTE

REMDFIRMA wrote:

Quote:
Now me, I figure if the old gentleman didn't intervene, and they pushed, someone was gonna get their head dunked in a punch bowl... Kaylee may be the sweetest lil thing, but insulting a womans dress and personhood at their very first gala is sure suicide not matter how sweet they are.

I dunno. Much as I relish the image of Kaylee assisting Banning in a little involuntary bobbing for orange slices, the look on her face was so crestfallen and woebegone, and other fancy words for bummed, I strongly suspect she would simply have moped away and had a positively ghastly time. As opposed to the shiny time she was having till Mal..you know..kicked some Ath.

Keep flyin'!

Department of Redundancy Department

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Friday, July 23, 2004 1:25 PM

STATIC

Is it my imagination. . .or is the fact that we only have 14 episodes to discuss causing us to WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY OVER THINK EVERYTHING?????

Gorramit I want my movie.

==================================================
"Wash. . .we got some local color happening. A grand entrance would not go amiss."

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Saturday, July 24, 2004 5:14 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Trust me, the sweet, happy, cheery ones ?

When they snap, they snap ALL THE WAY.

Trust me, while Kaylee isn't the violent type, she does come from a rough and tumble backwater, and prolly wrestled with her friends and kin - big difference between shooting/killing folk (which she's not the type for) and whuppin someones ass when they've pushed your buttons.

That little pouty look the sweet ones get, that's a STOP SIGN, cause if you push it, you gonna have a fist in your eye, seriously... listen to the voice of experience here.

-frem
diefuxdie

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Saturday, October 2, 2004 4:39 PM

BRUISERSMOM

That happens in the supposedly equal U.S of A. I had a friend who went to a party at Brown University. She's attending UC Santa Barbara. The girls at Brown told her that she wasn't Ivy League material and shouldn't be cruising their parties for men. Ivy League Snobs!

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Sunday, October 3, 2004 7:01 AM

FIREFLEW

Quote:
Originally posted by Static:
Is it my imagination. . .or is the fact that we only have 14 episodes to discuss causing us to WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY OVER THINK EVERYTHING?????

Gorramit I want my movie.

==================================================
"Wash. . .we got some local color happening. A grand entrance would not go amiss."

Well you know, they give us so little to work with for over-analysation. I recall a thread that focused mainly on food-tin labels and what possible links that could have with River's craziness.
(Non-spoiling hint for those who read French: Blue Sun.)
(Non-spoiling hint for those who don't read French: le soleil bleu.)
(Bilinguists: you're smart enough, you figure it out.)

___________________________________
Jayne: "Know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I beat you with till you understand who's in command."

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Friday, October 8, 2004 1:14 AM

GAVIDA

Quote:
Originally posted by Static:
Quote:
Originally posted by whispering:
I'm a bit confused, i'm not that good in english but i think that mean girl was referring to the buffet table.

Kaylee: ...Theres some kind of hot cheese there.
Mean Girl: It's not as good as last year.
Kaylee: Oh, what did they have last year?
Mean Girl: Standards...
Kaylee: Oh...

Actually. . .look at the COMPLETE context. . .

K: Isn't this the greatest party? Everyone's so fancy. . .and there's some kind of hot cheese over there.

MG: It's not as good as last year.

See. . .Kaylee's original statement was about the party as a whole.

I have to agree with Whispering here, I see the conersation as made regarding to the buffet and the food.
Like some snobby high-class people who get the fancy food every day thinking it was a "fun" thing to have "standards" (standard food rations) at a party because it is kind of "exotic".

And therefor the "Oh" reply, since to Kaylee it is the normal thing and the fancy food is the cool stuff.

Keep flying,
Gavida

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Thursday, October 14, 2004 6:14 PM

JOE

No, this is definitely about the class of people attending the party (ie, that Kaylee was allowed in).

With upper class snob like those girls, social standing is /everything/.

They're the type of people who read The Daily Mail and make a fuss over "family values" when they encounter something they don't like (blacks, gays, poor people, shops open on sundays etc).

It's all about the fact that their social standing is diminished because Kaylee is at the same party as they are. In their eyes. the party isn't exclusive enough, and thus, is not really worth attending.

The big thing about it is you can't escape your class. Kaylee will always be working class, no matter how much money she earns or who she marries and thus will always be unsuitable and inferior in their eyes.

It's the class system that has been in place in this country for over 1500 years and is still going today, from the lower classes, working class, through the middle classes, upper middle class and upper classes (landed gentry and royalty etc).

My parents are working class, and will always be, but I am technically middle class since I went to university and have a degree and good education (although I identify as working class).

--
http://jo-ham.com - engineers think just that little bit differently

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Friday, October 15, 2004 5:19 AM

SETALLE

I never figured they were talking about Standards with a capital S. I always thought it was something more like, you know, the standards, the same stuff as usual. Which, since she didn't elaborate showed Kaylee that they didn't think she was welcome, 'cause since she didn't really know, they knew that she wouldn't have normally been at one of these parties. Probably not really what was going on there, but it seemed to make sense at the time!

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Friday, October 15, 2004 1:20 PM

the movie is not the Series. Only the facts have been changed, to irritate the innocent; the names of the actors and characters remain the same

Quote:
Originally posted by IlGreven:
Well, she did have another insult, directed at Kaylee herself, which she started "You should see your girl,"

That was a different girl (of the same group of four), though there is no doubt in my mind that

a) the two that spoke were each deliberately insulting Kaylee, and

b) they were all enjoying that Kaylee was too unsophisticated to know that.

In defense of their society, the girls may have felt justified in insulting Kaylee because she spoke to them without being introduced. It is clearly a significant faux pas, as when Kaylee did the same (just previously) to a man, he bowed to her and walked away without saying a word. Clark Gable (I used to think he'd died) & Miss Persephone illustrate that more experienced & worldly gentlemen can overlook a violation of societal rules due to innocence of those rules. But I'm sure that Clark introduced Kaylee to each of the other gentlemen with whom she is speaking.

Keep the Shiny Side Up

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Friday, October 15, 2004 1:33 PM

the movie is not the Series. Only the facts have been changed, to irritate the innocent; the names of the actors and characters remain the same

Quote:
Originally posted by Static:
Is it my imagination. . .or is the fact that we only have 14 episodes to discuss causing us to WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY OVER THINK EVERYTHING?????

Just your imagination. Personally, I never overthink anything, 'though I might have used a few fewer Ys, and maybe one or two less ?s.

Keep the Shiny Side Up

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Friday, October 15, 2004 1:36 PM

the movie is not the Series. Only the facts have been changed, to irritate the innocent; the names of the actors and characters remain the same

and your Caps Lock key seemed to get stuck, on the second line.

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Friday, February 4, 2005 9:27 PM

REAVERINA1985RIVIERA

They were indirectly (but deliberatly) insulting Kaylee's inteligence, family history, education, upbringing, social status, and taste in clothes.

All in three sentences.

I really don't like those girls. Any one who is mean to sweet little Kaylee deserves this:

---------------------------------------------
You don't argue with a Reaver.

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Thursday, March 24, 2005 3:34 PM

MYDOGISDEAD

Hey has any one got a thing for Kaylee?.

In shindig not only she came out on top of those
wussy girls, but she can out talk any engineer in the room.
I bet she even has a faint whiff of WD40 (engine lubracant), which I find a turn on.

later
mydogisdead
who likes brainy girls

Sometime you want shoes but don`twant to pay the price of your sole

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Thursday, March 24, 2005 3:42 PM

EMBERS

the crack about Kaylee having bought her dress instead of having it hand made by her seamstress
(which is evidently what the cool girls do there)

is a lot like Cordelia's line to Willow:
"I see you've found the softer side of Sear's"

which was actually Cordy's scariest moment IMO,
right up until that second she had seemed nice....
(she wasn't as scary in Ats S4)

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Wednesday, July 25, 2007 3:52 AM

SAVANTE76

Makes me wonder what it would be like if Simon was the one to escort her to a society do.

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Saturday, September 1, 2007 11:03 AM

RIVERFLAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Gavida:
Quote:
Originally posted by Static:
Quote:
Originally posted by whispering:
I'm a bit confused, i'm not that good in english but i think that mean girl was referring to the buffet table.

Kaylee: ...Theres some kind of hot cheese there.
Mean Girl: It's not as good as last year.
Kaylee: Oh, what did they have last year?
Mean Girl: Standards...
Kaylee: Oh...

Actually. . .look at the COMPLETE context. . .

K: Isn't this the greatest party? Everyone's so fancy. . .and there's some kind of hot cheese over there.

MG: It's not as good as last year.

See. . .Kaylee's original statement was about the party as a whole.

I have to agree with Whispering here, I see the conersation as made regarding to the buffet and the food.
Like some snobby high-class people who get the fancy food every day thinking it was a "fun" thing to have "standards" (standard food rations) at a party because it is kind of "exotic".

And therefor the "Oh" reply, since to Kaylee it is the normal thing and the fancy food is the cool stuff.

Keep flying,
Gavida

I think it was a mixture of the two. Like, the bitches were meaning it in the "the partys standards have been lowered", but poor Kaylee hasn't been raised in the snobby rich bitch world, and so could read it as what Whispering suggested. Kaylee could have interpreted it in either way, cause both are horribly insulting. And the bitches need to jump off a cliff.

I feel for Kaylee, cause I don't really have any knowledge of their world, and would have been like Kaylee.

"The human body can be drained of blood in 8.6 seconds, given adequate vaccuuming systems." -River

"It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think -River

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Saturday, September 1, 2007 4:18 PM

CBSTEVE

They were being snobs and implying that Kaylee didn't belong at the ball. She kind of makes herself stick out by talking about evertything being so fancy and the hot cheese, and her dress, while I think was lovely, did seem to clash with the dresses the other women were wearing. Yeah, they were real bitches and I'm glad old Murphy gave them what for.

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Sunday, September 2, 2007 6:54 AM

SAMANIE

The girls were being bitches, kind of like in the way Cordelia was mean to willow in 'welcome to the hellmouth. I think that the girls knew she didnt really belong or perhaps she was in society, but wasn't really up with fashion.

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Sunday, September 2, 2007 7:26 AM

AGENTROUKA

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Trust me, the sweet, happy, cheery ones ?

When they snap, they snap ALL THE WAY.

Trust me, while Kaylee isn't the violent type, she does come from a rough and tumble backwater, and prolly wrestled with her friends and kin - big difference between shooting/killing folk (which she's not the type for) and whuppin someones ass when they've pushed your buttons.

That little pouty look the sweet ones get, that's a STOP SIGN, cause if you push it, you gonna have a fist in your eye, seriously... listen to the voice of experience here.

-frem
diefuxdie

But oh, would it have been NICE to see THAT instead of the pretictable Kaylee-gets-rescued scenario. I roll my eyes at it every time because that's exactly the sort of thing that has Kaylee acting like a child toward Simon: People protecting her like a little baby. She comes to expect that and can't deal with adversity without crying or "snapping". GROW UP, sweet little thing!

But.. um.. I guess that was supposed to be her character arc through the show... Never mind me. *g*

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Tuesday, December 18, 2007 11:27 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

The script does refer to all those guys surrounding KayLee as "farmers" rather than navy guys, but they were dressed because it was the social event of the season.
The guy who insulted Banning has A LOT of credits on imdb (Larry Pennell).

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Sunday, December 23, 2007 8:41 AM

EVILDEAD1971

having just watched shindig;

the girls were insulting kaylee.
kaylee knew it, but was too hurt to reply. she was being her cheerful self and trying to make friends.

i loved when that old man came and rescued her esp insulting the lead girl. "space of a schoolboy's wink"

and when kaylee had all the men around her listening to her talk, one did ask her to dance, but got cut off by the old man.

http://www.boomstick.org

"and everything you hoped would last, just always becomes your past" perfect memory - remy zero

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Tuesday, December 25, 2007 4:17 AM

ASARIAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Gavida:
I have to agree with Whispering here, I see the conersation as made regarding to the buffet and the food.
Like some snobby high-class people who get the fancy food every day thinking it was a "fun" thing to have "standards" (standard food rations) at a party because it is kind of "exotic".

In earnest, I too first thought Banning and mean friends meant "standard food rations" or some such. But I now I believe she really just meant it in a derogatory way of "higher standards"; as in: "We got better better food last year; (and they didn't just let anyone in, either)."

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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