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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

When River speaks at Badger, in his dialect.....

Was she merely channeling Badger, and just chatting him or pushing his buttons, or.....

Was she actually reading Jayne, Zoe, Book and providing them with exactly the diversion they were looking for and talking about, and disarming Badger for that purpose? (even though they were unable to see it that way)

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Originally posted by MIKER:
When River speaks at Badger, in his dialect.....

Was she merely channeling Badger, and just chatting him or pushing his buttons, or.....

Was she actually reading Jayne, Zoe, Book and providing them with exactly the diversion they were looking for and talking about, and disarming Badger for that purpose? (even though they were unable to see it that way)

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Basically, at this point in the series, pre-Ariel, I don't think anything River does is guided by a full awareness of the world around her.

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Originally posted by AgentRouka:

Basically, at this point in the series, pre-Ariel, I don't think anything River does is guided by a full awareness of the world around her.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by AgentRouka:

Basically, at this point in the series, pre-Ariel, I don't think anything River does is guided by a full awareness of the world around her.

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Well, I don't agree with that.
TTJ, she knew the Hands of Blue were coming to Ezra for her.
BW, she knew the ship was full of ghosts, and that they had screamed to death.
Safe, she knew about Ruby and Patron, etc.
OMR, she knew all about YoSffBridg.

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Originally posted by AgentRouka:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by AgentRouka:

Basically, at this point in the series, pre-Ariel, I don't think anything River does is guided by a full awareness of the world around her.

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Well, I don't agree with that.
TTJ, she knew the Hands of Blue were coming to Ezra for her.
BW, she knew the ship was full of ghosts, and that they had screamed to death.
Safe, she knew about Ruby and Patron, etc.
OMR, she knew all about YoSffBridg.

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Her heart-breaking speech to Simon in War Stories makes this very clear, too. She "functions like she's a girl" as opposed to a floating brain in a fog. Only it's still just temporary.

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Originally posted by AgentRouka:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by AgentRouka:

Basically, at this point in the series, pre-Ariel, I don't think anything River does is guided by a full awareness of the world around her.

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Well, I don't agree with that.
TTJ, she knew the Hands of Blue were coming to Ezra for her.
BW, she knew the ship was full of ghosts, and that they had screamed to death.
Safe, she knew about Ruby and Patron, etc.
OMR, she knew all about YoSffBridg.

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Yeah, she knows those things, but she is utterly incapable of properly communicating with other people, incapable of truly putting them into a context of her present situation.

TTJ - she is sitting there mumbling, petrified, not telling anyone.
BW - she sneaks away without telling anyone, with no practical purpose but to follow the voices and stare at the bodies.
Safe - she actually markedly worsens her situation because she babbles forth what she knows about Ruby
OMR - again, complete inability to apply that knowledge in a useful way

She wallows in that information, or aimlessly follows it, or ineffectively shares it.

That's why I say there is no true connection to the reality around her until Ariel. After that she truly starts connecting, communicating, being effective.

Her heart-breaking speech to Simon in War Stories makes this very clear, too. She "functions like she's a girl" as opposed to a floating brain in a fog. Only it's still just temporary.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
She doesn't seem to understand why they ignore her when she's right all the time, even when they clearly hear her. So she came from an environment where those around her paid better attention to what she said. Just because they are too ignorant to listen to her and heed her does not mean she is the one not connected to reality.

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Originally posted by AgentRouka:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
She doesn't seem to understand why they ignore her when she's right all the time, even when they clearly hear her. So she came from an environment where those around her paid better attention to what she said. Just because they are too ignorant to listen to her and heed her does not mean she is the one not connected to reality.

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But that is the very thing she is not aware of, the very reality she cannot grasp. That is exactly what I mean by disconnected from reality: her severe inability to communicate by fully taking into account the situation she is in, the people she is speaking to and how pointless one-word utterances are - no matter how often they don't work. Just because she has information coming in at rates the others don't doesn't mean she can put all or much of it in a proper context. Her awareness of reality is limited by being unable to focus and sort through all of it, and prioritize and thus properly participate - something that she only can do later with the help of medication. She misses key information, or withholds it, because she can't focus. Constant distraction is a form of disconnection.

Mind, I am not accusing her of anything. I am just describing what is going on. I love River. I find her disconnection deeply affecting.

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Originally posted by AgentRouka:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
She doesn't seem to understand why they ignore her when she's right all the time, even when they clearly hear her. So she came from an environment where those around her paid better attention to what she said. Just because they are too ignorant to listen to her and heed her does not mean she is the one not connected to reality.

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But that is the very thing she is not aware of, the very reality she cannot grasp. That is exactly what I mean by disconnected from reality: her severe inability to communicate by fully taking into account the situation she is in, the people she is speaking to and how pointless one-word utterances are - no matter how often they don't work. Just because she has information coming in at rates the others don't doesn't mean she can put all or much of it in a proper context. Her awareness of reality is limited by being unable to focus and sort through all of it, and prioritize and thus properly participate - something that she only can do later with the help of medication. She misses key information, or withholds it, because she can't focus. Constant distraction is a form of disconnection.

Mind, I am not accusing her of anything. I am just describing what is going on. I love River. I find her disconnection deeply affecting.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Ok, I agree that while she is learning the new environment, landscape, and characters, she is not yet focusing on communication protocols. But I beg to differ that means she is not aware.

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