Ariel revisited by asarian

FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

Ariel revisited

POSTED BY: ASARIAN
UPDATED: Thursday, March 2, 2006 05:45
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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 3:29 PM

Hi!

I wonder if someone would be willing to help me out, here? This may all be air through the engine for more experienced folks, but I was struggling with the following passage (Ariel). And I could use some clarification, please. Yes, it concerns my beloved River. :)

River: "They took Christmas away."
Jayne: "What the hell now?"
River: "Came downstairs for the shiny presents; they took the tree, and the stockings; nothing left but coal."
Jayne: "Would you shut her up?"
River: "Don't look in the closet, either -- it's greedy. "It's not in the spirit of the holiday."

The timeline on this seems reversed. "Don't look in the closet, either" (in the literal timeline) appears to refer to Christmas Eve, I reckon (or earlier); at least before Christmas Morning, when River "Came downstairs for the shiny presents; (and found that) they took the tree." The timeline reversal thing is not really all that relevant here, I suppose, except that it nicely matches a pattern throughout the script ("They're doing it backwards; walking up the downslide").

Okay. But what exactly is our River referring to? The way I figure this, it all breaks down into two major parts.

Part One:

River: "They took Christmas away."
River: "Came downstairs for the shiny presents; they took the tree, and the stockings; nothing left but coal."

Now, what does it mean? (the first part). Does it refer to the Blue Hands, who stole her life? It's a popular theory. It could also refer to the Blue Hands in a more immediate sense: when they came for her, in the hospital they're robbing. Or to the whole plan-gone-horribly-wrong-because-of-Jayne's-horrible-betrayal thingy (the Feds are, after all, literally coming down the stairs when they make the arrest).

Part Two:

Leaving in the middle whether River is a true 'precog' (after all, when someone's predictions are that good, what difference does it really make?), River does seem to have a clear sense of premonition. There are several indicators to wit:

"Copper for a kiss?" (hinting to Jayne's sudden, but inevitable betrayal).

Or, River down the ramp, moments before their arrest:

"No, no, I can't go back. I don't wanna go back."

And the strongest:

"He's not going to help him right ... You have to help him! ... He's killing him!"

So, we get to:

River: "Don't look in the closet, either -- it's greedy. "It's not in the spirit of the holiday."

I believe the punch line of River's whole cryptic monologue is delivered in precisely the last word: "GREEDY" (smiling at Jayne). Just like the "Copper for a kiss?" thingy, River lets Jayne know she knows his secret (there's also the double-entendre, it seems, of her telling Jayne/us that she CAN peek ahead). And then she adds that "It's not in the spirit of the holiday" to have done what he did (I'll say!). Now, going with the latter, and "the spirit of the holiday" refers to say, the spirit of bonding between members of the Serenity crew, then "They took Christmas away" suddenly makes a lot more sense, too; then, keeping in mind the timeline reversal thingy, River would have meant: "They took my (sense of) family away; that which I had on Serenity."

Is it bad that what she said doesn't make perfect sense to me?

Must understand River... must... necessity. :)

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 5:56 PM

MATTCOZ

I took it as being her code, like in the letters she sent.

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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 6:12 PM

SPACEMANSPIFF

I think the giveaway as to what is going on here is in how Jayne reacts. She starts talking, and he seems confused. As she goes on, there is a moment of understanding on his face, and then he gets really angry. River is relating a Christmas ruined by someone stealing everything, one which Jayne went through at some point, whether it was one from his childhood, or maybe even a Christmas HE ruined by robbing a home. Either explaination could parallel what is going on right then; either Jayne is ruining what should be a time of happiness for the Tams, or he has just had a wonderful present taken from him.

To me, River reads a mind best when that mind is under strong emotion. In this instance, Jayne is probably going through the most and strongest emotions. Yes, Simon has been caught, but he seems very cool and collected.

Did he just go crazy and fall asleep?

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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 6:34 PM

DAVESHAYNE

This is the way I've always seen it.

"Copper for a kiss." Is possibly a reference to ancient greek burial practices - placing a coin in the mouth of the deceased so he/she would have the fee to pay Charon the ferryman that took the dead to the underworld.

"They took christmas away." I take as a reference to the Fed commander double crossing Jayne. Jayne got greedy and so didn't get his presents.

How much of this meaning River herself understands I don't know. One assumes that if she were fully aware that Jayne had betrayed her she would have told Simon at the earliest opportunity.

Of course all of these references are a bit murky so I don't usually argue with alternate explanations.

As for precognition I think River is powerfull enough being a psychic gunfighting asskicking supergenius without letting her see the future.

"He's not going to help him right." While it does I supose suggest a certain amount of precog ability I think can be better explained by River knowing what the intern was doing and realizing (because she is way smart with perfect memory) what the consequences of that action would be. In the same way that I know that if I hold my hand in the fire I'll get burned without having any ability to see future events she knows that whatever the drug the doctor is administering will be deadly to the patient.

Anyway just my take on the subject.

David

"A lot of people are asking me, you know, what exactly is Firefly? It's a tv show you morons!" - Joss Whedon

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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 7:00 PM

JOCKOCKEYOCK

Interesting analysis Asarian.
Now I think about it in the beginning of Arial there was a mention of Jayne looking better in red.
Jayne looks him square in the eye, then does it again. Simon moves down the table; River gets up and goes to the kitchen. Wash resumes his train of thought --
WASH
So, two days in a hospital, huh?
(Inara nods)
That's awful. Don't you just hate
doctors?
SIMON
Hey!
WASH
I mean, present company excluded.
JAYNE
Don't be excluding people, that's
just rude.
A blur. Suddenly something's coming at Jayne. It's River with a kitchen knife. She attacks, slashing at his Blue sun t-shirt. Jayne barks, he's cut. SMACK! He reflexively backhands her across the room. Bedlam ensues, and all of this happens in an instant: Simon and Inara rush to River's side, Mal, Zoe and Kaylee to Jayne's; mah jong tiles spill, food falls from the table, as the following overlaps --
MAL
Jesu --
ZOE
It's deep -- SIMON
River, no --!
INARA
Oh, god, honey...
KAYLEE
He's bleedin'
SIMON
(shocked)
River...
RIVER
(matter-of-fact)
He looks better in red.
I wander if this relates to her later speech about Christmas?
And the chart on the hologram
Images begin to change furiously as River's brain starts firing, going berserk. Greens go to red, levels spike, warning lights flash. Simon has his back momentarily turned, addressing Jayne. River lets out an ear-splitting SCREAM OF TERROR.
Is this just her seeing what is going to happen or maybe she is experiencing a greater terror from reavers like in the movie.

The court of this obsession, is abstracted from possession which when the worlds of outside in fall.

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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 7:24 PM

GUTTERBALL

Ooohhh...fascinating possibilities!

You notice that her holographic brain goes apesh*t just as Jayne springs his plan. He says something like, "Wrong, plan changed while you were out," and BLOOP! Lights up like Christmas, not to coin a pun.

That's always been one of my favorite subtleties.

As for the speech itself, I've always related it to the Alliance/Blue Hands, not necessarily to Jayne himself. Of course, I'm admittedly biased here.

Since she says "THEY took Christmas away", I assumed the first part, all the way up to "nothing left but coal", pertained to the Blue Hands. 'S a plural thing. I took it to mean that they took all her joy away (anyone remember the "Put a bullet to me" speech in that broken, begging voice??) and left nothing but this dark, grey, but "useful" (to the Alliance, anyway) existence that will only burn her out. Coal, ya know.

But then, she looks RIGHT AT Jayne and tells him not to peek because it's greedy. I have no doubt that that part, whether SHE knows it or not, pertains directly to him. And I think he knows it, too.

But I love discussing it! More ideas?

________________________________________

Please remember that the 9:30 show is completely different from the 7:30 show. Don't forget to tip your waitress.

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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 7:49 PM

AUSSAY

Too complicated for me!

But interestingly though, in 'Objects in Space' Early mentions something about him maybe being Santa Claus and bringing shiny presents to the boys and girls to Kaylee

Maybe its a premonition of him

"Shake your head boy, your eyes are stuck"

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http://www.browncoatsriseagain.com/

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Thursday, March 2, 2006 4:37 AM

ELOISA

I always took the Christmas speech to be an expression of what was happening to Jayne at the time, specifically the following:

River: "They took Christmas away."

The Feds ruined his once happy day.

River: "Came downstairs for the shiny presents; they took the tree, and the stockings; nothing left but coal."

He was expecting his reward when he brought Simon and River downstairs, but instead he's been captured too.

River: "Don't look in the closet, either -- it's greedy. It's not in the spirit of the holiday."

As a member of Serenity's crew he shouldn't have sold out his fellow crewers. Echoes Mal's reaction at the end, or possibly foreshadows it.

That's my take, anyway.

As an interesting aside, a fellow Browncoat pointed out to me that when Simon is arguing with Agent McGinnis in the holding area, River's hands (cuffed behind her back) move in synch with what he's saying. She even makes angry gestures a second before he goes snappy. This could be unintentional on Summer Glau's part or - given that the camera gives us such an excellent view of her at that point, and that it's a slightly odd angle to pick just at random - it could be River picking up telempathically on Simon's emotions. She's obviously in a weirder-than-often frame of mind that day.

***
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Thursday, March 2, 2006 5:45 AM

ASARIAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Eloisa:

I always took the Christmas speech to be an expression of what was happening to Jayne at the time, specifically the following:

River: "They took Christmas away."

The Feds ruined his once happy day.

River: "Came downstairs for the shiny presents; they took the tree, and the stockings; nothing left but coal."

He was expecting his reward when he brought Simon and River downstairs, but instead he's been captured too.

Hey Eloisa,

You're the second one to point this out, today. David also took it as a reference to the Fed commander double crossing Jayne. See, I was focussing on River all the time (hmm, I wonder why; lol). So I missed it.

But wait a tick! Now I'm thinking, along the lines I said initially, it's the Feds who are literally coming down the stairs when they make the arrest! I always thought "Came downstairs for the shiny presents" meant "I came down." But maybe that's just exactly what River is saying: they [the feds] came down the stairs and took Jayne's reward away! This whole thing is beginning to fall into place now. :) Thank you!

Or, like you said, they [Simon, River, and Jayne] came down the ramp, and they [the feds] took away Jayne's reward.

At any rate, you have convinced me that this part, indeed, refers to Jayne's loss that day, and not that of River.

Quote:

As an interesting aside, a fellow Browncoat pointed out to me that when Simon is arguing with Agent McGinnis in the holding area, River's hands (cuffed behind her back) move in synch with what he's saying.

Very good observation! I missed that, too (hey, wait, I'm starting to look stupid; arrggh). I noticed a similar thing with River, on Miranda. When the holographic lady is talking, River is, partly, lip-syncing with her!

Oh, our River is giving us quite a run for our money, doesn't she? What is it they say? A riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma! :)

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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