...I *get* it!! by Crossbow

FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

...I *get* it!!

POSTED BY: CROSSBOW
UPDATED: Saturday, April 3, 2004 16:42
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VIEWED: 6250
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Sunday, February 1, 2004 12:44 PM

Loved the two-part opener. It beautifully mixes character and action. One scene didn't make any sense to me at the time. It took four or five viewings before I got it:
Right after Simon tells Rivers story in the mess hall, Mal leaves and Simon confronts him in the corridor. Simon basically calls Mal an alliance stooge and gets decked. The scene finishes off Jayne saying "I could see that comin.."

I think the giveaway is Jayne. If the "dumb" guy saw it coming surely the top 3% guy did too.
Simon needed to know if Mal would turn he and River over to the feds, so he pushed Mal's buttons...
and a hard right cross says alot about where a man stands.
What a great show.
Crossbow

"But she was NA-KED... and all articlate"

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Sunday, February 1, 2004 12:50 PM

INEVITABLEBETRAYAL

Don't think that's it at all, if you'll pardon my sayin so. Simon didn't know Mal at all, nor any of his history. So he probably really thought that Mal would turn him and River over to the Feds. On the other hand, Jayne, who may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer, does know Mal, so would know that being accused of being Alliance would be mighty unsettling to the Captain.

Them's my two cents...

___________________________________
No power in the 'verse can stop me.

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Sunday, February 1, 2004 1:00 PM

MISGUIDED BY VOICES

Quote:
Originally posted by InevitableBetrayal:
Don't think that's it at all, if you'll pardon my sayin so. Simon didn't know Mal at all, nor any of his history. So he probably really thought that Mal would turn him and River over to the Feds. On the other hand, Jayne, who may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer, does know Mal, so would know that being accused of being Alliance would be mighty unsettling to the Captain.

I can see both arguments, and since it scans all ways (it shows something about the captain's character as well as being funny), cool. I like the theory that Simon goaded Mal into hitting him, but I agree he didn't know enough to draw the conclusion.

"I threw up on your bed"

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Sunday, February 1, 2004 1:07 PM

CROSSBOW

Don't mind you sayin'. Simon didn't know Mal, right but down in the cargo hold when the fed draws a gun on the both of them (and Mel doesn't have his best day ever) he comically asks "is there a reward"?
So all Simon knows about the captain is that he'd look for a "pat on the head" from a fed... turn them in (prison for Simon, worse for River).
I find the stuff that Joss writes can often have different interpretations... its why its so fun.
Crossbow

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Sunday, February 1, 2004 10:40 PM

JAGGEDSEVEN

I think the reason why Jayne saw it comin is because he has instincts that Simon doesn't have. Simon may be real smart, but he's not used to dealing with people who deck you for steppin out of line. Jayne is, by his lifestyle.

http://stripe.filetap.com

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Monday, February 2, 2004 12:56 PM

MISGUIDED BY VOICES

Quote:
Originally posted by JaggedSeven:
I think the reason why Jayne saw it comin is because he has instincts that Simon doesn't have. Simon may be real smart, but he's not used to dealing with people who deck you for steppin out of line. Jayne is, by his lifestyle.

I figured it was simply because Jayne knew enough about Mal to know he might not take kindly to someone calling him Alliance.

True though, Simon clearly doesn't have the instincts to notice when the hole is deep enough and he should stop - else he and Kaylee might have locked lips before the show got cancelled.

"I threw up on your bed"

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Monday, February 2, 2004 5:37 PM

CROSSBOW

Very true. Simon doesn't doesn't get into situations where violence may be the outcome (the scene taking place prior to the killing of the fed in the cargo hold)
That thought plays out in one of the last lines when Simon asks "How do I put this delicately... Would you kill me in my sleep?" I guess he's still trying to get the measure of Malcolm Reynolds.

Crossbow

Juuust sit right back and you'll hear a tale,
A tale of fateful trip. That started from Persephone, aboard this tiny ship!

The mate was a mighty flyin' man. The skipper brave and sure.
Nine passengers took off that day for a three hour tour...A three hour tour.

The mighty verse started getting rough, the tiny ship was tossed. If not for the courage of the fearless crew, Serenity would be lost!

The ship's astrife on the shores of this everlasting space
With- Kaywinnet Lee, the Skipper too
The pilot, and his wife
The Companion, and, River Tam
Here on a Firefly!!

ok...time for my medication :}

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Tuesday, February 3, 2004 12:39 AM

NEROLI

My first post here, and of course I am defending Jayne..LOL

Seems to me that it makes PERFECT sense that Jayne sees trouble coming and Simon does not. Simon may be all sorts of book smart but is greatly lacking in street smarts, where as Jayne is the opposite. Though Simon does seem to show some improvement in later episodes and likely would have shown even more as he gained exeriance in the "real world".

That said, I am not entirely convinced Jayne is all that dumb. For one thing, it is hinted at that he is a skilled tracker which requires a certain amount of observation, and on a subject he gets passionate about he shows an ability to become quite knowledgeable (like guns). It is certainly true he lacked much schooling but to me he seems more like a kid that has a learning disability and was told a few times too often that he was stupid and came to believe it himself so stopped trying to learn.

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Tuesday, February 3, 2004 1:22 AM

CALHOUN

I think its obvious that Jayne wasnt burdened with an over-abundance of schoolin. Still, he's my kind of stupid :)

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Tuesday, February 3, 2004 3:01 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Ok, lets not make this any more complicated than it is. Mal fought in the war, against the Alliance,the Feds, what ever. Jayne knows this. Jayne also knows that about the worst thing anyone can do is to accuse Mal of being a faithful dog of the Alliance and taking a ' pat on the head'. Simon has no idea how much Mal hates the Alliance, so when he,( Simon )makes such a wise crack to Mal.... yeah, even Jayne could see THAT comin'.

OK, so NOW do we get it ???

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Wednesday, February 4, 2004 5:22 PM

NEROLI

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Ok, lets not make this any more complicated than it is.

Ahhhh, but that takes all the fun out of it.

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Wednesday, February 11, 2004 5:06 AM

RHYS

Quote:
Originally posted by Calhoun:
I think its obvious that Jayne wasnt burdened with an over-abundance of schoolin. Still, he's my kind of stupid :)

Yeah, while Jayne may not be the brightest, he's certainly content to let people think he's even less intelligent than he really is, because that gives him an edge when he needs it...

Rhys

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Friday, March 5, 2004 6:52 PM

MALSDOXY

I know what did this...

I have to agree with INEVITABLEBETRAYAL on this one...Simon doesn't know Mal at all. Just realized he picked the wrong ship...top 3% didn't know how wrong he was...

Haken needs a new development system. Donate.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=5&t=3283

Haven't you killed me enough for one day ?
-Mal, War Stories

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Friday, March 5, 2004 7:27 PM

INITIO101

I don't think Simon even had a clue, top 3% or not, about Mal and his thoughts concerning the Alliance. I think it's established quite conclusively that Simon is terrible at character study and is an idiot reading another's emotional state. In The Message, Simon blows it once again with Kaylee and Zoe makes it a point to say "is there anyone you're good at talking to??".

If Simon could even get a paragraph out without accidently insulting Kaylee's character or upbringing, he would so have her at his beck and call. Part of Simon's charm is his utter cluelessness at understanding those around him.

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Monday, March 8, 2004 5:03 AM

BLINKER

I recently had a similar revelation regarding "Trash," so let me know whether it's too obvious to point out, or flat-out wrong (gotta be one or the other

):

It seemed that Mal let himself get dumped by Saffron a bit too easily. He was able to disarm her in the standoff at the beginning, and since when would he let his guard down like that anyway?

Then I remembered all of his protestations to Inara about how she was the linchpin of the plan, and a valued member of the team, and thought... did Mal let himself get held at gunpoint in the hopes of placating her?

_________
Sliders: Gate Haven - http://slidersweb.net/blinker

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Saturday, April 3, 2004 4:42 PM

BUDCLARE

Quote:
Originally posted by Blinker:
Then I remembered all of his protestations to Inara about how she was the linchpin of the plan, and a valued member of the team, and thought... did Mal let himself get held at gunpoint in the hopes of placating her?

I'm amused by that idea, but I kind of doubt it. I think he let his guard down more than he usually would, since he was certain that she wouldn't actually kill him, and he had a backup plan in place...but I don't think he did it entirely on purpose, because that would be kind of reckless.

On the other hand...we don't even know for sure that there were bullets in the gun, do we? If there were bullets, then he definitely didn't mean for her to take his gun, since Saffron having a loaded weapon could potentially have made the ending go rather differently. But if there weren't bullets in his gun...

I think he's just a sucker for crying girls. ;)

________________________
She has had congress with the beast.

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