FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

Reading Minds in 'Objects'

POSTED BY: NUCLEARDAY
UPDATED: Thursday, March 9, 2006 11:31
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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 1:19 AM

NUCLEARDAY


(SERIES SPOILERS I'D IMAGINE)

Okay, just finished watching through the series, in order, for like the umpteenth time. I'm starting to pick up on some of the little details now, intentional or otherwise.

Every time I watch "Objects in Space" (Damn you Early, I loathe that bounty hunter so much and yet I really hope he'll make a return appearance when next the Serenity gets back into the air...)I'm trying to pay particular attention to the opening with River's glimpses into the crew's thoughts. (Hoping to dig up some clues about Book and Inara's respective secrets... no luck with that, further from what's shown up in other threads.) Couple things I noticed, and I'm sure it's all intentional, 'cause that scene's very meticulously planned:

Simon, Kaylee, Jayne, and Inara all four are looking directly at River for their respective "flashes." Book and Mal are looking elsewhere for theirs. (And the one with Zoe and Wash I imagine is fairly self-explanatory.)

I keep coming back to that segment, cause I can't help but think it's telling in some fashion. My thoughts: The "psychic flashes" from the four that seem to be directed at River have to do with her. (Makes sense with Simon and Jayne, but what is it that River needs to tell to Inara, then? Hmm... has River picked up some insight into Inara's past, or knows something that Inara doesn't?)

I've read some posts about Book's "flash." I think the clue here is that his thoughts don't necessarily have anything to do with River, herself. He's pointedly not looking at her. I wonder if this is something from his past? I'll likely never figure Book's deal, so I'll leave it at that, I suppose. (Otherwise like to go and write a novel-length thesis on all my Shephard Book theories...)

Mal's could mean a couple things, too, really. Again, he's pointedly not looking at River. (Made even more explicit by the fact that Inara certainly is.) "None of it means a damn thing..." Is this from his past as well? A la the Battle of Serenity where he lost his faith? Or does this tie into his continuing inner struggles? Or does it have to do with Inara?

Then, what's the deal with Kaylee? She's the only one who doesn't say anything, though she's also looking at River during Simon's flash. And I can take the look she gives River a couple ways: Accusatory and taking Simon's side there? (Some resentment at River keeping the two of them apart, even though it's River's predicament that brought Simon to the ship and thusly together?) Or, I can also see it as sort of a blank look. (Kaylee's the one who wears her heart on her sleeve and doesn't really have any secrets... maybe River doesn't read anything off of her because she has nothing to hide?) Or is it a foreshadowing of Kaylee coming out to the crew about the events in "War Stories" and being at least a little bit scared of River after that?

Or, I could be reading WAY too much into all of this... ;p But this particular episode is certainly Joss' baby, and sometimes a writer adds details they don't notice until later. (Joss mentions a few details like that in the commentary.) But this seems too purposeful for me.

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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 2:17 AM

THEREALME


I pretty much agree with your conclusions. In earlier threads, I also brought up the distinction of whether or not the subject was looking at River or not.

I think that the mind-reading of Kaylee is clear. Kaylee seems uneasy, apprehensive. In place of the formerly friendly playmate is someone who is now unsure of River (certainly fallout from War Stories).

TheRealMe, First Officer of the Sereni-Tree

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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 2:29 AM

NUCLEARDAY


Quote:

Originally posted by TheRealMe:
I think that the mind-reading of Kaylee is clear. Kaylee seems uneasy, apprehensive. In place of the formerly friendly playmate is someone who is now unsure of River (certainly fallout from War Stories).

TheRealMe, First Officer of the Sereni-Tree



Yeah, I think that's what I'm leaning towards. Mostly I tend to ramble on about Kaylee when she pops into my posts, just 'cause she's adorable. :P

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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 2:42 AM

GROUNDED


Quote:

Originally posted by nuclearday:
Mal's could mean a couple things, too, really. Again, he's pointedly not looking at River. (Made even more explicit by the fact that Inara certainly is.)



I always saw Inara as looking away from Mal as opposed to looking at River.

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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 5:46 AM

NUCLEARDAY


Quote:

Originally posted by Grounded:
I always saw Inara as looking away from Mal as opposed to looking at River.



I see your point, and it's what I'd figured until the other day. What got me, though, is that she's basically looking directly at the camera. I'm no director, but that's usually either done with a specific purpose, or it's a mistake. Breaking the third wall and such. IIRC especially with Simon and Inara they're looking almost right into the camera, ie, River's viewpoint. Still, I could be making a mountain out of a molehill, here. ;p

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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 6:10 AM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by nuclearday:

(SERIES SPOILERS I'D IMAGINE)

I've read some posts about Book's "flash." I think the clue here is that his thoughts don't necessarily have anything to do with River, herself. He's pointedly not looking at her. I wonder if this is something from his past? I'll likely never figure Book's deal, so I'll leave it at that, I suppose. (Otherwise like to go and write a novel-length thesis on all my Shephard Book theories...)

Then, what's the deal with Kaylee? She's the only one who doesn't say anything, though she's also looking at River during Simon's flash. And I can take the look she gives River a couple ways: Accusatory and taking Simon's side there? (Some resentment at River keeping the two of them apart, even though it's River's predicament that brought Simon to the ship and thusly together?) Or, I can also see it as sort of a blank look. (Kaylee's the one who wears her heart on her sleeve and doesn't really have any secrets... maybe River doesn't read anything off of her because she has nothing to hide?) Or is it a foreshadowing of Kaylee coming out to the crew about the events in "War Stories" and being at least a little bit scared of River after that?




Definitely agree on the whole Book deal.

As for Kaylee, I do not think it's a foreshadow thing. True, Kaylee is probably uneasier around River after War Stories, but I think that would have been a state Kaylee was also in before she informed the crew about River taking out 3 guys with 3 single shots (wasn't River totally cute, doing that? hehe).

I'm more inclined to go with the resentment. Regardless of the cause, it's really River standing between her and Simon. As the good Doctor says, in the BDM: "I just wanted to keep River safe. Spent so much time on Serenity ignoring anything that I wanted for myself." Kaylee understood that, of course.

I think Kaylee's resentment is aimed at Simon, though, not at River (it has to be; who could resent our dearest River for anything? it's not possible, I tell you).


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"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 7:07 AM

NUCLEARDAY


Ah, Asarian. As the resident River expert here, I was curious to see what your take on that scene would be when I saw you'd responded. ;p

Never thought of Kaylee being miffed at Simon in that scene, though it rather makes sense. Far as Kaylee being afraid of River, I think I may have phrased that wrong. I was thinking it may have shown her apprehension of River following the War Stories situation. Really, though, I'm still confused. I just find it significant for it's notable absence that she doesn't have any lines there. At first I thought maybe it was an editing/ time constraint thing, but really we're talking about a pretty short amount of time and it'd be in the same take as Simon's...

As an aside: Yeah, River in that War Stories scene still gets me every time. Love that pose. Also, what I love about the writing on this show is that while there are those who love River in that scene, I get equally touched seeing Kaylee's vulnerability there. (And Simon is such a boob for running after Book and leaving the two most important women in life to "hold the fort" by themselves... :)

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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 1:42 PM

JOCKOCKEYOCK


From my perspective I thought that those looking at River were self directing their thoughts not to her but to themselves. She just seemed to feel to blame as these things were not in her head directed to them selves but to herself as though they were her thoughts and not those of the people thinking them. The others that do not look at River seemed to be passive thoughts like the little voice in the deep dark of ones mind.
Just so you know hers the script pieces

River has been watching them the whole time. They suddenly turn to her, the laughter draining from their faces.
SIMON: I would be there right now.
There is coldness in his voice, and Kaylee looks at her with an expression that matches.
And then, oddly, there’s a jump cut to the two of them laughing again, as though that moment never happened.
River comes into the hallway, touching the walls as she goes, looking at her hands. She finds Book and Jayne, also in mid-conversation. Jayne is cooking scallion cakes on the griddle. Book is at the table
During all this, River wanders unnoticed right between the two of them. She turns to look at Jayne, who looks back guiltily.
JAYNE: I got stupid. The money was too good.
She turns, looks at Book, who is in her face, fiercely angry.
BOOK: I don’t give half a hump if you’re innocent of not!
So where does that put you?
Jump cut back to reality the men are laughing, Book still sitting, and River has walked between them unnoticed. She heads to the foredeck hall as the men continue.
River moves into the foredeck hall, is about to turn right when she sees WASH and ZOE on the bridge. The door is half shut and they are a ways away, but she is suddenly awash in their energy. Their clothes are on, (it's the bridge, already), but though they are playful, their energy is intense, their eyes locked. We see them as River feels them, VERY CLOSE up, wide angle lens roving around them, sweat and smiles and the sound of the ocean, waves breaking as River nearly staggers back with it, suddenly perturbed to be in that intimacy.
And now she's coming down the steps as MAL and INARA are in quiet conference at the entrance to her shuttle. River stops near the entrance.
Inara looks at her, says:
INARA
I'm a big girl. Just tell me.
Pan over to Mal, who is looking away from us.
MAL
None of it means a damn thing.
That ocean noise again, and River looks pained, nothing is as it should be here, she stumbles down the steps in a jumbled series of jump-cuts...
For more script go to …. http://www.fireflywiki.org/113.html


The court of this obsession, is abstracted from possession which when the worlds of outside in fall.

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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 4:23 PM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by nuclearday:

Ah, Asarian. As the resident River expert here, I was curious to see what your take on that scene would be when I saw you'd responded. ;p

Never thought of Kaylee being miffed at Simon in that scene, though it rather makes sense. Far as Kaylee being afraid of River, I think I may have phrased that wrong. I was thinking it may have shown her apprehension of River following the War Stories situation. Really, though, I'm still confused. I just find it significant for it's notable absence that she doesn't have any lines there. At first I thought maybe it was an editing / time constraint thing, but really we're talking about a pretty short amount of time and it'd be in the same take as Simon's...




Hey nuclearday,

If the measure of Love one has for River made one a River expert, then, assuredly, I'd be one! Unfortunately, it don't quite work that way. :)

Going over that scene with a fine comb again, there's no way I can ignore Kaylee's cold look at River now. And objectively, though it really pains me to say it, I think it's really River that Kaylee's not happy with, after all. :( She gives River an icy "You're keeping me away from my man!" look. And, looking very carefully at River's reaction, I'm now beginning to believe it's, in fact, foremost Kaylee's thoughts that shock River the most! Bear with me, for a spell.

Seriously! If you think about it, in "Safe" River already said she knew it was difficult for Simon, because he gave up everything. That's not news to her. And yet, the expression on River's face, here in Objects in Space, is really one of deep shock; as if, yes, a best girlfriend suddenly shuts you out, and gives you a cold "Why don't you be elsewhere!" look. Especially the latter is interesting; because it seems River is really responding to that! If you look closely, you see that River is hesitant, for a moment. No longer just observing, but almost interacting. She is in shock, turns her head away to walk off; then her eyes quickly turn back at Kaylee's direction; then she walks away. As if thinking: "Kaylee! I thought we were ... Wow! ... Uh, okay, I'm off."

I know, you smell a lot of "if" coming off of this theory. :) But still.


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"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Thursday, March 2, 2006 2:32 AM

NUCLEARDAY


Yup, that's how I'm seeing it now, too. Kaylee giving her a "get away from my man" sort of look. ;p Much thanks also to JOCKOCKEYOCK for clearing some of that up with the script posting, as well.

Think maybe once again I was reading too much into stuff ;) "Ceci n'es pas une pipe" and all... I may see shapes in the clouds sometimes, but it's still a cloud.

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Saturday, March 4, 2006 2:46 PM

JOCKOCKEYOCK


I have been contemplating upon the ocean sound. I don’t really understand why River gets angry and disturbed when ever the ocean noise rushes into the background. After seeing Wash and Zoë and then Inara and Mal…..
Does any one have insight on this…?
Or am I being to critical of small unimportant things again?


The court of this obsession, is abstracted from possession which when the worlds of outside in fall.

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Saturday, March 4, 2006 4:09 PM

NUCLEARDAY


Yeah, the ocean sound's something I don't know how specific Joss went with that. My brainworking is it's some way fit in with Wash and Zoe's passion, maybe leading a bit into River finding the branch. (Two things you wouldn't expect to see or hear in a spaceship.)

Also, I don't think she's walking away angry. Just a little overwhelmed, and perhaps feeling a bit like an intruder in that case.

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Saturday, March 4, 2006 6:16 PM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by nuclearday:

Also, I don't think she's walking away angry. Just a little overwhelmed, and perhaps feeling a bit like an intruder in that case.



That was my take on it, too. She's just too overwhelmed by what she realizes is really not hers to experience, I guess. I saw no anger.


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Saturday, March 4, 2006 10:00 PM

JOCKOCKEYOCK


what about after she passed Inara and Mal the ocean noise was not a calm swelling but a rush of like unease in the waves crashing.... like the water was at its edge against rocks or a wall....
> < wow i made sence to myself.
like a wall.... Inara and Mal's protective emotional walls clashing when realy they just want to break down their walls like the ocean on rocks....
I supose thats how i hear it....

or rather maybe after Mal and Inara its not ocean we are listening to but rather wind rustling leaves in a tree.... the two sound so much alike to me i dont know what im hearing.


The court of this obsession, is abstracted from possession which when the worlds of outside in fall.

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Sunday, March 5, 2006 1:57 AM

NUCLEARDAY


Come to think of it: there's something else that's bothering me about the opening in that episode.

Where exactly DOES the gun come from? Obviously, Jayne could be lying about not leaving it laying around (and who really trusts anything Jayne says, anyways?) But I also assume Jayne cares too much about his collection of firearms to leave one lying around in the cargo deck...



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Sunday, March 5, 2006 4:18 AM

JYNNANTONNYX


Quote:

Originally posted by nuclearday:
Come to think of it: there's something else that's bothering me about the opening in that episode.

Where exactly DOES the gun come from? Obviously, Jayne could be lying about not leaving it laying around (and who really trusts anything Jayne says, anyways?) But I also assume Jayne cares too much about his collection of firearms to leave one lying around in the cargo deck...



I was thinking the same thing in the shower the other day (...because I think about Firefly in the shower...) and wondered where the gun came from. It doesn't seem like any of them to leave a gun lying around. Definately not Jayne, he loves his guns too much, albeit it wasn't Vera.

I love "Objects in Space" very muchly and I also love the commentary for it, Joss is so passionate about it. One thing though, when River heard Jayne I went "aww" he's guilty (so he should be, but you could tell her was guilty in the Ariel episode) then got completly creepified by Book. All credit to Ron Glass. His delivery of that line gave me chills.

"It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think."

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Sunday, March 5, 2006 4:44 AM

ELDIRION


My take on the gun was that River does not see social boundaries the same as the others. Even if the gun was locked up, she has the skills to open the case, so for her, this is the same as the gun being out in the open.

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Sunday, March 5, 2006 5:10 AM

NUCLEARDAY


Quote:

Originally posted by eldirion:
My take on the gun was that River does not see social boundaries the same as the others. Even if the gun was locked up, she has the skills to open the case, so for her, this is the same as the gun being out in the open.



True. She obviously has a different view on the nature of objects, and that I can assume would include notions of ownership. But still, we see her finding it on the ground. We could always assume that she went through the trouble of going through Jayne's bunk and getting it out, but... I just don't see that either. We can assume that River is fairly cognitive most of the time, her perceptions are obviously distorted, but other than when she's "triggered" in the BDM, we don't see previously that she'd be capable of doing things and not be aware of it. When she comes across the branch, I feel that she's clearly just seeing it there for the first time.

Really, the more I think about it, the more that one aspect is bugging me. Where the frell did that gorram gun come from?

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Sunday, March 5, 2006 5:54 AM

RIVERRULES


when she reads the minds of the captin and the companion.
she does not read any negative thoughts at all.
the thing that she reads is the love that, the 2 share for each other....................
the rest of your stament is ok

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Sunday, March 5, 2006 6:00 AM

RIVERRULES


I pretty much agree with your conclusions. In earlier threads. though I also want too bring up the distinction of river melding with the ship.............. she pullewd that off perfectly though actually they give it away by showing the other ship too ofhen.
I think that the mind-reading of Kaylee is clear. Kaylee is someone who is now unsure of River (certainly fallout from War Stories) but still caree for her and still loves her.


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Sunday, March 5, 2006 6:07 AM

ARCLIGHT


Quote:

Come to think of it: there's something else that's bothering me about the opening in that episode.

Where exactly DOES the gun come from?
Quote:



It's the same gun she used in "War Stories". She's had it ratholed for some time.
Now a small spanner into the works, Simon would never say (or even think) what River picks up from him. Why? He just wouldn't, that's why. "...point of fact, it's love..."
And another, Simon is telling Kaylee stories about his college days. Simon WOULD NOT be back there if it weren't for River. He's been out of Med school for some time.
Some of what River is picking up is true (Jayne), some is false (Simon & Book). I think we are supposed to conclude that River's mental condition is deteriating. She's waving a pistol around thinking it's a twig for Chistsake.

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Sunday, March 5, 2006 7:22 AM

NUCLEARDAY


I am starting to go towards thinking that alot of what River sees is filtered/ distorted through her own subconscious, as well. Sure, she's reading minds, but also superimposing her own concepts onto what she sees. I think that makes alot of sense. Kind of another layer to the onion peel there, too.

Far as the gun goes... I can go either way I suppose. I certainly don't have any better ideas than supposed River's sequestered it from "War Stories." (I'd need to check, but come to think of it, it looks like the same gun...) And she's certainly becoming less stable by that point in the series (not that she was all that stable before :) Same time, the thing that leaves it open to me is that there's really very little evidence one way or another there. River looks as surpised to find it as anyone else was... though she was admittedly getting pretty far out from reality at that point...

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Sunday, March 5, 2006 10:08 AM

LAMPYRID


My take on OIS:


In both OIS and Serenity, River wakes up twice. Also, in OIS, Kaylee describes River as "not a person", in Serenity, Mal asks River, "Are you anything but a weapon?".

In Serenity, River wakes up and you hear, "Cut them down". I think the weapon woke up, and when then she wakes up again, its River. In OIS, when she hears Early's voice, she woke up once; its the weapon, and it taking a sleeping River along on a search for Early, and a gun to use on him.

A conscious River would never pick up a gun, so the dreaming River sees it as "just an object". The crew's yelling wakes her up the second time, "It was in my hand".

River does not have to be physically present to read people's minds. We are seeing how River perceives reading them; as thought she's actually right there with them. I think the weapon is in control of River and is scanning them looking for Early.

Physically, the weapon is stalking Early, and knows were every gun is on the ship. Perhaps Jayne may have hidden guns around to use during an emergency, such as the next time Mal tried to shove him out an airlock. He might not want to admit to hiding guns.

I think the Blue Hands were creepy because they were weapons, not persons any longer. That's what was going to happen to River, but she escaped. They would have killed her and just left the weapon. Once you have the weapon, you don't need River to turn on you? That is probably why she so fears the Blue Hands, perhaps they have kind of psychic power over her.

It seems River and the weapon are in some kind of contention and interfer with each other for control, and that's when she is confused and crazy.

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Sunday, March 5, 2006 10:21 AM

RIVERRULES


river is not crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! thats the basic noob misstake to make.
she is a reader that why she is always holding her head and complaning about noise and space she is not talking about the real world but her head her mind.
and she is just gifted as far as any of hte crew she could run the ship if she had too she rules......


I CAN KILL YOU WITH MY MIND..........

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Sunday, March 5, 2006 10:29 AM

DONCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by Lampyrid:
My take on OIS:


In both OIS and Serenity, River wakes up twice. Also, in OIS, Kaylee describes River as "not a person", in Serenity, Mal asks River, "Are you anything but a weapon?".

In Serenity, River wakes up and you hear, "Cut them down". I think the weapon woke up, and when then she wakes up again, its River. In OIS, when she hears Early's voice, she woke up once; its the weapon, and it taking a sleeping River along on a search for Early, and a gun to use on him.

Excellent. Just excellent. I think you have it.

Especially if you combine that with the idea that River (or rather, the riverweapon) had the gun stashed somewhere since War Stories.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I don't disagree on any particular point.

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Sunday, March 5, 2006 10:29 AM

PIEKY


Interestin insights, but i think i disagree with your conclusion on Inaras statement
What River hears is most likely wots at the surface of people minds so Inaras comment "you can tell me, i'm a big girl" (or wotever it is) probably means she wants Mal to admit his feeling to her. Simple.
I know it aint the most interestin possabiliy but it sorta makes the most sense

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Sunday, March 5, 2006 10:35 AM

RIVERRULES


i agree though river can actually read in to people if she wanted to though just usaually touches the surase thoughts and leaves it at that.
she does read the love that is shonw by inaria and mal and the comment that she reads off her is just means that she wishes mal would just treat her like a grown up lady with feeling.

I CAN KILL YOU WITH MY MIND..........

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Sunday, March 5, 2006 11:38 AM

LAMPYRID


In Serenity, Dr Mathias refers to River as having a destablized reality matrix and layers of psychosis.

In Safe, Simon calls it paranoid schizophrenia.

On FireflyTalk #18, the winning article of the prop giveaway contest was "Firefly/Serenity and Schizophrenia". The author describes the similiarities between a schizophrenic relative and River's behavoir.

Her behavior in safe is not just because she's a reader, its a personality change.

I agree thought that much of what the crew dismisses as crazy is either River being overwhelmed or expressing herself acurately but in terms the crew don't grasp.






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Sunday, March 5, 2006 2:10 PM

JOCKOCKEYOCK


As Simon said in Ariels
Simon: You know, ah, you know how you get scared or worried or nervous, but you don't want to be scared or worried or nervous, so you push it to the back of your mind? You try not to think about it. Your amygdala is what lets you do that. It's like a filter in your brain that keeps your feelings in check. She feels everything; she can't not
River has no choice as to when she hears others thoughts

The court of this obsession, is abstracted from possession which when the worlds of outside in fall.

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Monday, March 6, 2006 2:45 AM

NUCLEARDAY


Wow. Lampyrid, I think you just described that whole scene perfectly. Putting it like that, as "River vs. the Weapon" puts a different light on everything for me, and answers some of the questions that were bugging me.

Okay, now I'm off to watch through that episode again... ;p

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You can take my hope when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

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Monday, March 6, 2006 7:34 AM

REAVERREQUIEM


In "Objects", I feel that River is, for the first time getting to know these people. The passions that drive them. Her powers are just developing into a tool of conscious control. By the time Serenity BDM* comes out she is using her powers as part of the crew to (with control) identify hazards at the vault in town.
I haven't spent much time in space. But out in the blue of the sea, I must assume is only a pale shade of being "Out in the Black". You have nothing but time, and all you do is think. As a reader, River has this crew to read. The mind never sleeps; you examine every aspect of life. Dreams, ideas, love, hate, past, present, fantasy. This was when she became self aware, a real person -focused. She is no longer in a swirl of changing consciousness, from one person to another, the past, the experiments. Passing ships...(passing planets?)
By the end of Objects she addresses the fears of the crew, gets rid of Early, …and saves the day. I wasn’t so much worried about what those glimpses meant to anyone but River. It was what she needed to know to act against Early when no one else could.

* I’m a little slow. BDM I have no Idea? Best Damn Movie?


"Somethings calling me back...theirs a light in the black and I'm ready to burn-I'm coming home"

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Monday, March 6, 2006 10:32 AM

NUCLEARDAY


Quote:

Originally posted by ReaverRequiem:
I’m a little slow. BDM I have no Idea? Best Damn Movie?



Yeah, that's about right ;p Took me some time to figure it out when I first got here, myself. "Officially" stands for Big Damn Movie, referencing that line from Safe.

"What does that makes us?"
"Big Damn Heroes, sir."
"Ain't we just."

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You can take my hope when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

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Monday, March 6, 2006 6:16 PM

SPACEMANSPIFF


OK, I'll toss in my two credits...

My favorite aspect of OiS is the ocean sounds. To me, they represent the rushing, pounding feelings of passion. We first hear it with the outward expression of love/lust between Wash and Zoe. But we hear it even louder, more forceful with the unrequited, bottled-up passion between Mal and Inara. Interesting, that...

The stick being a gun and where it came from always bothered me as well. It seems too over the top to think that River, as her disassociation from reality progresses in that scene, has the ability to *materialize* the gun from Jayne's room. She doesn't walk past the creew dorms, though, and she didn't have it with her throughout the scene...did she? Everone *does* ignore her...why? Does she have Plateau Eyes, too? There is also the fact that, when she re-enters reality, everyone on the ship is there in the hold with her...how much time passed?

To pull together several things that have been mentioned, it seems sensible that a "finished weapon" River would have no emotions of her own, no reality matrix of her own, which would lead to her not being able to perceive and interpret the world for herself. Her full intellect would go to reading others, reacting to others, and following out Alliance/Blue Sun (they are the same thing, as far as I'm concerned) programming.

Did he just go crazy and fall asleep?

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Thursday, March 9, 2006 11:31 AM

LEEBO


Ariel is the show that really begins showing the many faces of River. This is around the point in the story where Simon began testing drugs on her. It's probably the relatively unfocused testing he was doing prior to the episode that gave her the ability to predict Jayne's betrayal ("You look better in red.") and the much more focused drug testing post-Ariel that give her enough command over her psychic abilities to pull off the stunts in War Stories and Objects In Space. Hence you can't really read it as being River's Point Of View throughout the series, I think River was a lot more "schizophrenic" before and less capable of hearing each person's individual voice as they are portrayed in Objects. I do feel that the drugs Simon gives her are responsible for her development. Hence the experience is as spooky to her as it is to you.

In Safe, for example, River doesn't realize that the little girl is Mute because she can't differentiate her psychic projections from daily life. Had it happened after Ariel, she probably could have determined that she knew things she couldn't and would have dodged the witch-hunt.

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