FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

Dead or Alive?

POSTED BY: JAYNESADDICTION
UPDATED: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 19:10
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 5924
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Wednesday, July 21, 2004 10:22 AM

JAYNESADDICTION


I've seen references to this episode and I'm guessing it's an unaired ep. Anyone seen a script? In fact anyone seen any unshot scripts? I wanna read what I can't see gorramit! curse FOX for foxing up another fine TV series! any help would be seriously apreciated.


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Wednesday, July 21, 2004 10:31 AM

RHUTTNER


Quote:

Originally posted by jaynesaddiction:
I've seen references to this episode and I'm guessing it's an unaired ep. Anyone seen a script? In fact anyone seen any unshot scripts? I wanna read what I can't see gorramit! curse FOX for foxing up another fine TV series! any help would be seriously apreciated.





The script can be found here http://www.fireflyfans.net/feature.asp?f=45

This episode was never filmed, but some of its elements were used in episodes that were made.

Happy reading.


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Wednesday, July 21, 2004 10:31 AM

TIGER


edit. response above beat me.

---------------------------------------------
...The beauty of things was born before eyes and sufficient to itself; the heart-breaking beauty
Will remain when there is no heart to break for it.

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Wednesday, July 21, 2004 10:49 AM

JAYNESADDICTION


HOT DAMN! Thanks a ton, I can't wait to read this bad boy!

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Wednesday, July 21, 2004 10:54 AM

SIKKUKUT


Yeah, I found the script after searching the reference archive here. I was seeing names I didn't recognize referenced to "Dead or Alive." I was just about to groan heavily at the inclusion of fanfic when I found and read the script.

Rather addresses any theories about Mal getting tangled up in a resurgent independence movement, doesn't it? I really like the story... the plot with Simon and Tanaka is really interesting and the main plot includes a lot of things I've rather been wondering about-- Alliance commandeering ships, Independents who won't let go, and Mal's opinion of both...

My big question is how confirmed this is. It seemed a lot messier than the other shooting scripts, with typos and such... this'd make sense if it were an unfinished version, but it would also make sense if it were fake.

I dunno... there were parts of it that screamed "real" to me and parts of it that mumbled "fake." Any opinions, or, even better, actual facts?

____________________________
"You're mean. Firefly's making me reconsider my lifelong devotion to Star Trek." --My mother

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Wednesday, July 21, 2004 1:08 PM

HELL'S KITTEN


Quote:

Originally posted by Sikkukut:
I dunno... there were parts of it that screamed "real" to me and parts of it that mumbled "fake." Any opinions, or, even better, actual facts?

Yes, "Dead or Alive" is a real script... rather, a writers draft (from August of 2002). I have many, many outlines (including an unproduced one ), writers drafts and shooting scripts that I got from various ex-crew members, and the DOA draft was among them.

Each episode goes through a lot of rewrites, so the early drafts will not seem "quite right" in comparison to, say, shooting scripts. You'd be surprised how different episodes like "Ariel" and "Safe" were in their earlier drafts. Or maybe you wouldn't.

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Wednesday, July 21, 2004 1:34 PM

RHUTTNER


Quote:

Originally posted by Hell's Kitten:
Quote:

Originally posted by Sikkukut:
I dunno... there were parts of it that screamed "real" to me and parts of it that mumbled "fake." Any opinions, or, even better, actual facts?

Yes, "Dead or Alive" is a real script... rather, a writers draft (from August of 2002). I have many, many outlines (including an unproduced one ), writers drafts and shooting scripts that I got from various ex-crew members, and the DOA draft was among them.




Are you saying you have yet another unproduced script/outline? If so, any chance you would arrange for it to be posted as a feature like DOA?

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Wednesday, July 21, 2004 2:32 PM

QUICKSAND


That's pretty sweet.

Just skimming the tease, I can tell it's just a draft-- we learned from the "Firefly" commentaries (specifically, the one for Shindig) that Joss gives notes on the first 2 or 3 drafts, then fixes it himself before it's shot. The posted script looks like something Joss never touched-- as in the tease her, Mal says "You probably supported the Alliance," when she says specifically in "Out of Gas" that she did.

Still, it's lots of fun-- oh, what could have been, what could have been.....

**goes back to reading**
_qs

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Wednesday, July 21, 2004 2:43 PM

JAYNESADDICTION


I hope we can see a bit more, but if you read the note on the DOA script it sounds like overleaked data has ticked Fox off enough to send legal down people's throats. Too bad I would love to see more unproduced firefly. After reading DOA I agree some parts seem odd, (most notably the weapons, such as the compressed air gun or Nuclear Crossbow) however as someone with a BA in film, I can say these look as genuine as any pre produced script. Look at the original Star Wars scripts. In Episode-1, Lucas calls lightsabers Lightswords (even in descriptions) and makes a lot more blaant references to the 1977 Star Wars. And if you ever read the original pre shooting script for Star Wars (1977) they refer to the force as the Bogun Luke was on Tatoine when he recieves a message from the droids about his brother the Starkiller (in short I thank god someone revised this)

Sure Joss may have had some bad ideas for Firefly that never came to air, or writers working on the show may have missed some of the points (one reason I have been reserved about trying a fanfic) But it is still fascinating to see what could have been.

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Wednesday, July 21, 2004 8:06 PM

QUICKSAND


Quote:

however as someone with a BA in film, I can say these look as genuine as any pre produced script.

Hi. I'm a pretentious ass.

If you can tell this looks like a real script, it's because you've (gasp!) looked at a real script before, or else own a copy of ScreenWriterPro.

The writer (presumably Cheryl Cain) has the form down just fine, but as the producers of the show were never sure of its fate beyond the first few episodes, it IS safe to say a few were written that got put aside-- and never even were granted a second draft, or a Joss-edit.

For example, as someone with a Ph.D in Psychology, Neurosurgey, Nanotechnology and Basket Weaving, I can surmise that when Zoe says "He has to do this himself" in Act IV, this was rewritten into "War Stories" (also by Cain) with Mal's line in that episode, "No, he doesn't!" being pure Joss.

Of course, this is just guessing on my part. I don't actually know for sure. I didn't drop $14K a year for four years so I can recognize a screenplay format when I see one.

Warm Fuzzies,


___\_o_/___
--------------- (Qs)

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Wednesday, July 21, 2004 9:48 PM

REGINLEIF


This is so cool. *sigh* why did Fox cancel the show??? Why???

BTW, I liked your signature:
Quote:

"You're mean. Firefly's making me reconsider my lifelong devotion to Star Trek." --My mother


Shiny.

You can't take the sky from me.

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Thursday, July 22, 2004 4:57 AM

JUSTANOTHERMUDDER


I liked it... and even if it was a fanfic, (which I don't think it was), it was damn good.
I also noticed the 'You probably supported the Alliance' line by Mal, but even still... quick fix with a big red pen.
& I want to see Jayne holding a floppy necked turtle dammit!! LOL
And the bit at the end with the good doctor. Nice.



"Always be yourself. Unless you suck." Joss Whedon
"Where else are you going to get a love story that begins:
Boy meets girl. Girl kicks boy's ass." NYPinTA @WatchFarscape.com

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Thursday, July 22, 2004 10:43 AM

JAYNESADDICTION


Quote:

Originally posted by Quicksand:
Quote:

however as someone with a BA in film, I can say these look as genuine as any pre produced script.

Hi. I'm a pretentious ass.

If you can tell this looks like a real script, it's because you've (gasp!) looked at a real script before, or else own a copy of ScreenWriterPro.

The writer (presumably Cheryl Cain) has the form down just fine, but as the producers of the show were never sure of its fate beyond the first few episodes, it IS safe to say a few were written that got put aside-- and never even were granted a second draft, or a Joss-edit.

For example, as someone with a Ph.D in Psychology, Neurosurgey, Nanotechnology and Basket Weaving, I can surmise that when Zoe says "He has to do this himself" in Act IV, this was rewritten into "War Stories" (also by Cain) with Mal's line in that episode, "No, he doesn't!" being pure Joss.

Of course, this is just guessing on my part. I don't actually know for sure. I didn't drop $14K a year for four years so I can recognize a screenplay format when I see one.

Warm Fuzzies,


___\_o_/___
--------------- (Qs)



First off Quicksand I agree, Yor are a pretentious ass!
Do yourself a favor and lose the attitude.

The formating (for one) does have some problems but then again I was copying them down from HTML to an Appleworks template for screenwriting which it did not seem to jazz up to (which I was more than willing to assume was corruption due to transferrence) So apparently you know all about screenplays huh? screenwritter pro taught you all about that did it? This script is firstly too long and secondly has been reformatted when it went to HTML (including font and spacing) but seeing as you are the expert here I'm sure you knew that. so for an hour long TV show what is the proper length (considering there will be commericals to contend with)? What font/size would be used and why? Last time I checked explaining one's credentials did not make them a pretentious ass but rather someone who just might know something about the subject matter. So who do you go to when you are sick a friend who is cool or that pretentious ass of a doctor who dropped way too much cash on medical school just so's he can lord it over you? I was simply trying to point out that from flow and writing style the author seemed to be conveying the proper message and what's more she understood field's format (Of course you know all about that now don't you?)If attacking someone for suggestions make you feel good than fine, but I would hope you are better than this.

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Thursday, July 22, 2004 12:38 PM

HELL'S KITTEN


Quote:

Originally posted by jaynesaddiction:
First off Quicksand I agree, Yor are a pretentious ass!
Do yourself a favor and lose the attitude.

Whoa, hey, when did this become not funny?
Quote:

The formating (for one) does have some problems but then again I was copying them down from HTML to an Appleworks template
Yeah. As you said, there are some slight formatting errors cuz of copying the writers draft to HTML. So the indented centered paragraphs should be indented left justified paragraphs. Big deal.
Quote:

This script is firstly too long and
(WRITERS DRAFT) Why do you say it's too long? Comparing it to all my other writers drafts (ranging from initial to final draft), 55-58 pages seems pretty standard for the Firefly episodes. As it goes through the iterations, it can get shorter, but doesn't always. One can never really know how long any given scene will take until it's actually acted out. That's what them wacky editors are for.
Quote:

What font/size would be used and why?
Oh, my.... And how much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck fuing cared?
Quote:

Last time I checked explaining one's credentials did not make them a pretentious ass
True enough. But getting tetchy and going a little overboard with a rather offensively positioned response to a post on a message board just might.

And what the hell does any of this have to do with whether "Dead or Alive" is a fanfic or not? Holding this draft - from the set - in my grubby, little, non-BA-in-film-havin' hands, I can assure you all that it is real.

By the by, here's a quick scan of the cover and last pages from this writers draft:



Feel free to rage against this post, too.

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Thursday, July 22, 2004 2:04 PM

QUICKSAND


Actually, this never stopped being funny, I enjoyed the second post from JaynesAddiction quite a bit. I think he read my note, but being a flailing moron, it really didn't sink into his thick brain.

Somewhere in his unformatted, poorly-spelled (I meant to say 'scathing') response, he asks if I learned about a screenplay format from ScreenwriterPro. Well, no, I learned the format from reading a screenplay. JaynesAddiction seems to think that knowing what one looks like is a rare gift indeed. He's the one who paid too much for his limited skills of deduction, and seems to be a little sensitive about it.

Unless you posted the script yourself, JA, you can't comment on its reformatting, and besides, even if the entire script were flushed left, it wouldn't raise or lower my opinion of its legitimacy. It's in the writing.

And speaking of writing:

JA
Doctor, I need your help!

DOCTOR
Well, JA, as I have a Ph.D. in medicine, I think I can help you.

JA
Oh, okay. The pain is really in my stomach.

DOCTOR
As someone with an M.D. in gastrointestinal problems, I have deduced that there is a pain in your stomach. Take two aspirin and for the love o' God, quit swallowing your foot.

-FIN-

Warmest Personal Regards,
(Qs)

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Thursday, July 22, 2004 2:10 PM

QUICKSAND


Well spoken, Hell's Kitten. As above, this never stopped being funny. I enjoyed the script very much and appreciate the people who took the time to bring it to us. Personally, I was *trying* to discuss it, but I keep hearing this annoying buzzing in my ear.

I enjoyed it, it's only a tragic reminder of the many episodes we can dream of but will never have.... *sigh*

Stay Shiny,
(qs)

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Thursday, July 22, 2004 2:16 PM

JAYNESADDICTION


I'm sorry I don't really like being called a pretentious ass just because I gave an opinon and tried to backit up with a bit more credibility than "I like firefly too." Personally I think its extremely rude and childish to start name calling over something like this as well.

As for ths scanned script it came out at 74 pages when I first plugged it in. Normally a script for an hour TV drama would come in at about 48-52 pages using standard Screenplay format (see Syd Field's book Screenplay). Now As a draft it robably was over writtend (as most scripts are) however on my first look it was 74 pages (In verdana 13pt) well changing it to Courier 12 point brings it down to about 63 pages. Most screenplays are written in Courier 12 point because when properly formatted this comes out to roughly 1 minute per page. Editors or not this fact is one that has been used in hollywood for years and "wacky editors" or not There is a good chance this would get cut down (again in a one hour drama one must account for commercials),Granted Firefly MAY use a differing format from mainstream Hollywood production (A fact I do not know for sure but would be rather surprised to find out that Joss Whedon working for FOX would do) it is still entirely feesable. Personally I would have assumed it was real (whether YOU have a BA or not) but as I said before I was adding my two cents to the notion that it was probably real and adding the point of having a degree in film to help validate that my opinion wasn't just me shooting off my mouth about whether it was real (or not) based on sheer opinion. I'm sorry if pointing out that you might have a bit more insight than "just a hunch" is a problem on this site. My Bad.

As for you Quicksand I'm sorry that you feel that it's better to wallow in your own FUCKING ignorance, and berate people for things you could not achive even if you tried. (do you have any schooling?) In fact screw this. I'm done with firefly fans.net if this is the kind of people it attracts. have a good life quicksand, sad little king of a sad little hill.

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Friday, July 23, 2004 1:39 PM

QUICKSAND


pre┬Ěten┬Ětious (adj.)

1) Claiming or demanding a position of distinction or merit, especially when unjustified.

2) Making or marked by an extravagant outward show; ostentatious.

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Friday, July 23, 2004 5:52 PM

DIGIFICWRITER


Quote:

Originally posted by Quicksand:
Actually, this never stopped being funny, I enjoyed the second post from JaynesAddiction quite a bit. I think he read my note, but being a flailing moron, it really didn't sink into his thick brain.

Somewhere in his unformatted, poorly-spelled (I meant to say 'scathing') response, he asks if I learned about a screenplay format from ScreenwriterPro. Well, no, I learned the format from reading a screenplay. JaynesAddiction seems to think that knowing what one looks like is a rare gift indeed. He's the one who paid too much for his limited skills of deduction, and seems to be a little sensitive about it.

Unless you posted the script yourself, JA, you can't comment on its reformatting, and besides, even if the entire script were flushed left, it wouldn't raise or lower my opinion of its legitimacy. It's in the writing.

And speaking of writing:

JA
Doctor, I need your help!

DOCTOR
Well, JA, as I have a Ph.D. in medicine, I think I can help you.

JA
Oh, okay. The pain is really in my stomach.

DOCTOR
As someone with an M.D. in gastrointestinal problems, I have deduced that there is a pain in your stomach. Take two aspirin and for the love o' God, quit swallowing your foot.

-FIN-

Warmest Personal Regards,
(Qs)



Now who's the one being a pretentious ass? I see nothing wrong whatsoever with JaynesAddiction mentioning that he/she has a BA in film and using said credentials to back up his/her opinion on the draft script of "Dead or Alive". Your calling him/her a pretentious ass smacks to me of somebody who's either A) a hypocrite or B) has no idea what would constitute being pretentious or not (despite your posting of the definition of the word pretentious further down in this thread).

BTW, I don't really give half a hump whether or not you guys jump all over me for this post because I've never been one to back away from stating my opinion on stuff even if that opinion didn't happen to coincide with everyone else's.

EDIT: Just in case anyone's unclear on what my opinion is, my opinion is that Quicksand is a pretentious idiot for jumping all over JaynesAddiction and calling him/her a pretentious ass simply because he/she made mention of the fact that he/she has a BA in film during his/her critique of the "Dead or Alive" draft.

Take my love
Take my land
Take me where I cannot stand
I don't care
I'm still free
You can't take the sky from me
Take me out to the black
Tell 'em I ain't comin' back
Burn the land and boil the sea
You can't take the sky from me
There's no place I can be
Since I've found Serenity
But you can't take the sky from me

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Tuesday, July 27, 2004 7:10 PM

SUPERFLY


You know, I see this kind of boarish trash-talk on other sites, and I've really enjoyed it not being on this one. One simple comment was made, and for reasons unknown, Quicksand decided to get all blown up over it. Janesaddiction, I appreciate your need to defend yourself, but I'd like to point something out to the both of you.. it's the little message at the top of the Response page. It says:

"While we have an open policy concerning messages, please be civil when responding to others."

When did this stop being funny? When people wanted to start throwing insults around a really great site about a really great show.

No need to be rude you guys. No need at all. This is a great fan site. Please keep it that way.

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