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Face it, the idea is getting old. It's a show about teenagers fighting evil -- with a cast that has aged into its 20s and 30s!

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The Master, Angelus, Mayor Wilkins, Adam, Glory -- they kept getting better and better.

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Originally posted by Jonwes:
Dude, you so need to put the special spoiler tags on a lot of that post! Some of the European people haven't seen the end of season 6 yet.

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Originally posted by mojoeca:

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Face it, the idea is getting old. It's a show about teenagers fighting evil -- with a cast that has aged into its 20s and 30s!

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Well, the show has alway been about *growth*. These characters are no longer teenagers--they're now *in* their 20's. You can accept early- to mid-20's actors (Brendon, Hannigan) playing 17 year-olds, but you can't accept the same actors a couple of years later playing 20 year-olds?

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I thought Glory was too one-note ("gotta have the key") to sustain over the entire season.

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The entire series has always been about growth... *always.* From day one, the series was about a woman and her friends' growth into adulthood, changing and maturing through the years.

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Originally posted by Shoe:
Its too bad an actually good series may be sacrificed for a show that will tank.

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Originally posted by Zicsoft:

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The entire series has always been about growth... *always.* From day one, the series was about a woman and her friends' growth into adulthood, changing and maturing through the years.

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True enough. But when people grow and change, they start doing different things with their lives, don't they? They even become different people.

Hmm, now that I think about it, you've put your finger on the one big thing that I really disliked about season 6: no growth. In fact, the three main character rather regressed!

Buffy: she's rebellious and wilful, which was the basis of the tension between her and Giles. But they need to write out Giles, so all of sudden he has too leave because she's "over-dependent".

Willow: they go to all this trouble developing her as a geeky girl with hidden mystical powers. Which was a lot of fun to watch. But they need her to have a breakup with Tara (and I'm guessing they also need for her to lose her powers for season 7), so they decide she's a "magic addict". Hey, 12-step programs for witches! Now that's original!

Xander: the most disappointing of all. My favorite episode is "The Zeppo," which typifies this character's struggle to invent imself. He's come to terms with his weaknesses and built on his strengths. He's counquered his fears and shown his own kind of courage. But they needed him to break up with Anya, so all of a sudden he's afraid of the future. Oh well.

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Originally posted by Zicsoft:
My big worry about Firefly is that they won't be up to the all the plotting. A lot more important in SF than in Fantasy. I mean, there were plot holes in the Glory arc you could drive a truck through -- but Glory was such an appealing villain, you just had to let it slide. Won't work in SF, which is *about* details like that.

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Originally posted by shamus:
Just so Dylan doesn't feel so lonely...

I actively enjoyed S6. All the characters evolved/devolved organically. The writers moved the story in directions that were unlike anything else on TV.

The one complaint I might have is that the display of Willow's addiction may have been a little more like "text" than subtext. Rack -- although a cool character -- being used to draw a thick black line under the "Dealer" analogue was a little heavy-handed.

Anyway. It seems to me all the folks that are having problems with the various S6 issues are still engaged -- passionately -- with the show.

Tough to see how that could be a bad thing.

Nothings exceeds like excess.

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Anyway. It seems to me all the folks that are having problems with the various S6 issues are still engaged -- passionately -- with the show.

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Originally posted by Jonwes:
As I've said before, I've only become a big Buffy fan since season 6, although I always enjoyed the show when I happened to catch it before now.

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I'll really miss the Tara/Willow relationship. I was a big fan, and now it's done forever. I'll really miss Amber Benson. However...

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I also know one of the first things you need to know about dramatic writing is that if you love your characters, you'll hurt them. They need to be kicked in the butt every once in a while. And the Buffy team is great at doing that. I though the magic addiction thing, while it was a bit heavy-handed sometimes, was a clever plot. It wasn't something you'd see on Dawson's, so it was uniquely Buffy-like. What a great and interesting way to create tension between Willow and Tara in their relationship.

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I mean I understand the need for everything to hang together well but it's not so important to me as good characters and interesting stories.

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Originally posted by Zicsoft:

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I mean I understand the need for everything to hang together well but it's not so important to me as good characters and interesting stories.

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Then why bother with SF at all? If all you want is good people and stories, you can get that from any decent TV show.

Actually, I don't think you're in the minority. Judging from the "science fiction" I see, most fans like big fat stories that let them escape from the real world for a few hours, and aren't interested in reading critically. The buy books and watch shows that are full of "technical" details that don't actually make any sense.

That's the main reason I was so encouraged when I heard that Josh Whedon was doing a space opera. It's true that he basically writes fantasy, but he doesn't just make it up as he goes along -- he works hard to maintain the internal logic. (Though he doesn't always suceeed.) And when he does bring in science or technology, he avoids faking it. None of the jargon-spouting pseudo-science that drove me away from Star Trek.

Still, Whedon has a slight tendency to invent complicated backstories that get slightly out of control. There were minor inconsistencies in the Mayor Wilkins arc, and big ones in the Glory arc. I overlooked these problems because there was so much else to like. But that's gonna be harder to do with something Firefly.

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Originally posted by angryperson:
ur show sux a**! f**k firefly!

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Originally posted by Zicsoft:

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I mean I understand the need for everything to hang together well but it's not so important to me as good characters and interesting stories.

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Then why bother with SF at all? If all you want is good people and stories, you can get that from any decent TV show.

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Originally posted by NoVaGrAsS:
As Shuggie said, if there are good characters and a good overall story, the minor details shouldn't matter. However, could it not be said that minor details help design a good character? I find that if the minor details of the characters are compelling enough, I can suspend by desbelief to a greater extent... ignoring the minor flaws in the overall story and appreciate it for what it is.

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Originally posted by shamus:
On techno-babble: Bleargh.

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...whatever conflicts the people are presently grappling with take precedence over slavish adherance to canon.

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Actually, I'm not coming up with an example in TV SF where the people we are engaged with are not central to some galaxy-spanning operatic dilemma. Red Dwarf, maybe?

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Originally posted by Zicsoft:

No doubt Whedon is fighting the same battle as we speak.

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Originally posted by Zicsoft:
What's really irritating is when an ignorant SF writer hides their ignorance by throwing out lots of words they obviously don't understand.

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Thing is, in SF, the details often are the story.

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No doubt Whedon is fighting the same battle as we speak.
Novagrass:
The difference is: Joss will never cave under the weight of the networks like Rick Berman did.

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mean I understand the need for everything to hang together well but it's not so important to me as good characters and interesting stories.

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