The big bad Alliance question -- Spoiler by shirlockc

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The big bad Alliance question -- Spoiler

POSTED BY: SHIRLOCKC
UPDATED: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 05:27
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Sunday, October 9, 2005 7:58 AM

So my brother (whom I converted) went to see the BDM yesterday. He enjoyed the movie but had this comment/nit: If the Alliance created the Reaver situation, and knew where they hung out, why didn't they just blast them out of the sky? It's not as if the "military" presence wasn't being used -- the Operative had lots of ships at his disposal. So why not completely bury the problem by destroying the Reavers as well?

And what ever happened to Simon's contacts -- the ones who helped him break River out? Why wouldn't Mal or Simon try to contact them again to help them with the Operative and later problems? Mr. Universe is closer but wouldn't they have an alternate plans?

Enquiring minds ...

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Sunday, October 9, 2005 8:15 AM

HELL'S KITTEN

Quote:
Originally posted by shirlockc:
If the Alliance created the Reaver situation, and knew where they hung out, why didn't they just blast them out of the sky? It's not as if the "military" presence wasn't being used -- the Operative had lots of ships at his disposal.

I'm under the impression that only "Key members of Parliment" knew about this. I think the Operative even said that he didn't know why they wanted River back, and he sure did look surprised when Mal showed him the recording from Miranda.

Quote:
And what ever happened to Simon's contacts -- the ones who helped him break River out? Why wouldn't Mal or Simon try to contact them again to help them with the Operative and later problems?

Again, I'm under the impression from both the series and the movie that Simon's contacts were just subversives trying to help people like River, not actual military contacts. As such, I doubt they would know all the highest government secrets.

无党派人士

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Sunday, October 9, 2005 8:35 AM

EMBERS

I agree w/Hell'sKitten:
the parliment had okayed the PAX in the atmo on Miranda,
but didn't want the secret of their failure to get out to the public...
actually the Reavers were scary enough to keep people from getting to Miranda to see the failure.
So NOT wiping out Reavers served two purposes:

#1 a military operation would attract press and of course the soldiers would learn a lot of secrets

#2 leaving the Reavers there helps keep the secret of what created the Reavers

And I also agree about Simon's contacts who helped River escape, I'm guessing they have helped other families...they are probably not mercenaries for hire in general...it is probably very specific jobs, in the core planets (not out on the edge).

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Sunday, October 9, 2005 8:55 AM

SHIRLOCKC

Yes but:
The Operative and the soldiers didn't know why River was wanted. They were AT the edge of Miranda -- they could easily have been ordered by top parliementary officials (same one who ordered the Operative) to clean out the Reavers. They didn't have to land on Miranda to do that. As to that, why didn't anyone high up land on Miranda to get that beacon/message? If Serenity found it, then others could have too. If they spent that much effort trying to hide the secret, you would think they would clean it up better.

As for Simon's contacts, I can buy that they're mercenaries for hire (much like Mal and gang), which makes it all the more surprising to me that Mal would have no contact with such people. If he is as much of a subversive, wouldn't this be exactly the types of jobs he'd be after? ie., in another situation, wouldn't Mal be the kind of guy that Simon would have hired?

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Sunday, October 9, 2005 6:07 PM

HELL'S KITTEN

Quote:
Originally posted by shirlockc:
Yes but:
The Operative and the soldiers didn't know why River was wanted. They were AT the edge of Miranda --

No, I think that's maybe where you are getting a bit confused. The Operative and his ships were inside the ion (?? you know: the pretty, pretty lights) cloud that surrounds Mr. Universe's planet; they weren't at the edge of Miranda. For all we know, only the Parliment knew about Miranda. Keeping a secret means minimizing the number of people who know about it, therefore, I could understand if the Parliment chose not to tell the military and not to admit to the existance of Reavers.

Quote:
As for Simon's contacts, I can buy that they're mercenaries for hire (much like Mal and gang),

I think Simon's contacts were a bit different than what you describe. I can't remember exactly, but if you go back and watch Serenity, the pilot episode, and I think Safe (or read the various drafts of the scripts), that will give you a better idea of who these contacts were. I just got back from the BDM and am too tired to put it into words, but Simon's contacts just seem different to me than what you wrote.

无党派人士

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Sunday, October 9, 2005 6:41 PM

CHRISTHECYNIC

If you watch closely you notice that it says the Alliance has never even acknowledged the existence of Reavers. If they made a major military move against them (which is what it seems it would take) it would do two very unfortunate things:

1 It would prove that Reavers exist to the more "enlightened" people who possess the ability to research them if only they believed in them.
2 It would point everyone to Miranda. If you attack with enough force to stop them you’ll draw a lot of attention, force everyone to admit that it was a serious threat, and make people try to find out what happened so they can make sure it never happens again.

I don’t think everyone would say, "Why were they really that way? The edge of space thing doesn’t hold up, so what was really going on? They were all parked around one planet, I guess we should ignore that and the possible empirical evidence it could provide and instead rely on philosophy."

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Monday, October 10, 2005 1:40 PM

LENSMAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Hell's Kitten:
Quote:
Originally posted by shirlockc:
If the Alliance created the Reaver situation, and knew where they hung out, why didn't they just blast them out of the sky? It's not as if the "military" presence wasn't being used -- the Operative had lots of ships at his disposal.
I'm under the impression that only "Key members of Parliment" knew about this. I think the Operative even said that he didn't know why they wanted River back, and he sure did look surprised when Mal showed him the recording from Miranda.

Consider also that (in the series) the Alliance captains did not even believe that the Reivers existed. This suggests that the Reivers did not tend to attack alliance vessels, perferring easier pickings in the form of independent crafts. This would probably please the "Key members of Parliament" no end.

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Thursday, October 20, 2005 12:00 AM

SPACEMANSPIFF

Also, when the Alliance and the Reavers did finally meet in the Ion cloud (which will keep the whole battle secret in a lot of ways), the Reavers were giving at least as well as they were getting. Apparantly, it would not be an easy matter for the Alliance to simply walk in and wipe out the Reavers.

Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 5:27 AM

LIZANNE

The way I took in the information... the part that "key members of Parliament" knew... is that they used The Pax in the air processors on Miranda and everyone died, including the research and rescue team they sent to research and rescue. The nice woman who was eaten by reavers, didn't get a chance to broad-wave the Signal saying that they'd created reavers, only record it.. for the BDH's to find and then send out.

Without knowing they created the reavers, they weren't going to go killing them all.. especially since no Alliance ships would bother going so far out into the Burnham quadrant if Miranda was a black-rock and there were no people to control there.

As to the contacts... Simon never really got to know much about them and when he broke River out he did it alone. The ship that carts them away is remote-controlled and has seats only one, which is why River wakes up in a box in Pilot. They just provided the means, they didn't provide man-power... so he didn't talk to them much.

That's just the opinion of a girl who just woke up. :cD I could be wrong.

Liz
Nathan sat next to me.

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