Jayne's a bad guy?? by msg

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Jayne's a bad guy??

POSTED BY: MSG
UPDATED: Thursday, June 15, 2006 05:35
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Friday, May 26, 2006 9:01 AM

OK I just let ( ok really forced) some friends into watching some Firefly episodes and was shocked when one of them asked me why they let a bad guy stay on the ship. When I asked who she was referring to she said Jayne. That threw me. Does anyone out there think Jayne is a bad guy?

Oh and in case you can't tell by the large number of posts from me today, I am bored silly while my Geography students watch Pole to Pole and my English kiddos watch Treasure Island ( they just finished the book) and being on here is the only thing keeping me from running off and looking for a few reavers to let loose in my classroom:)

you're only young once, but you can be immature any time

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Friday, May 26, 2006 9:14 AM

RUGBUG

I would say Jayne's character is ambiguous. Could be good (end of jaynestown) could be bad (Ariel). He doesn't really concern himself with morality issues...he just wants to make money the easiest way possible. He rarely questions whether something is right or wrong and doesn't much care. He is only good insomuch as the people around him are good.

That leaves the question of whether the people around him are good. In a law-abiding citizen sense, the crew of Serenity are not good. They subvert the law, are willing to steal and will kill people, even if it is only bad people, when necessary. They do, however, have a code of ethics that most of us can ascribe to, so we put them in the good column. Since the Alliance is "bad," our crew must be dig damn heroes.

Jayne could very readily be bad. If he was cut loose from Serenity, he would be a bad guy, or at least a "worse than us" type of guy with questionable moral standards. Therefore it's very understandable that someone new to the show would think Jayne is a bad guy. He's definitely the baddest of the bunch.

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Friday, May 26, 2006 9:32 AM

SAMEERTIA

Jayne's not a very nice man. He's a useful sort of man- handy in a tight spot, knows how to kill people, knows how to ...err.. scare 'em (pain is scary!), etc.

The thing that struck me is that Joss says, "In the 'verse, the good guys don't wear hats."

We only see two crew ever wear hats. Wash wears one in the pilot when he takes the mule for supplies. Jayne wears hats constantly. Gotta wonder what it means.

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Tuesday, May 30, 2006 6:27 PM

CAUSAL

Quote:
Originally posted by SameErtia:
The thing that struck me is that Joss says, "In the 'verse, the good guys don't wear hats."

We only see two crew ever wear hats. Wash wears one in the pilot when he takes the mule for supplies. Jayne wears hats constantly. Gotta wonder what it means.

Finally someone else noticed that! My vote is for Jayne as bad guy. I think he would have turned on the crew as the season 3 finale cliffhanger. It's Joss--he doesn't build static worlds OR characters.

________________________________________________________________________
I wish I had a magical wish-granting plank.

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Wednesday, May 31, 2006 4:18 AM

GANEAGLA

yeah, i suppose that is part of the appeal of the show, or at least a lot of what makes the show great in my mind...these characters are complex and definitely not black and white (as they would be in other shows). The heroes do things that we would question as morally 'right'. And then there is Jayne, who really isn't a good guy.

But, then, he does grow. By Serenity he has grown into a semi good guy. So, give your friend time, she has to let Jayne grow as a person!

---------------------------------------------------
Your sister's not a cold-blooded murderer. She's never been a planner. - Karen Tyler

"Day" is a vestigial mode of time measurement based on solar cycles. It's not applicable...
I didn't get you anything. - River Tam

A life lived in fear is a life half lived. - Just Fran

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Wednesday, May 31, 2006 4:35 AM

ZEEK

I think he was always meant to be a bad guy. Doesn't Joss even call him a bad guy? I thought in interviews or a commentary I've seen him call Jayne a bad guy. He's still a bad guy we like though.

Saffron is bad too, but I wouldn't mind her joining the crew for a second. The craziness that would ensue would be well worth it.

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Wednesday, May 31, 2006 4:37 AM

PAGANPAUL

Is Jayne a bad guy? Let's see...

Jayne met Zoe and Mal while he was holding them up, and treatened to kill them both. He shot one of his partners in the leg and joined Mal simply because the money was better.

On Arial, he betrayed Simon and River because "the money was too good".

The only reason he didn't betray May in the pilot episode is "the money weren't good enough".

He pushed his partner out of the hoverplane, in an effort to not ditch the money in Jaynestown.

(Is anyone else noticing a pattern here?)

Bad? Maybe, maybe not. Greedy? Yep, definitely!

But don't forget the line...

ZOE: Something aint right.
WASH: Sweety, we're crooks. If everything were right we'd be in jail.

None of the crew are strictly "good guys".

* * * * * * * * * * * * * *

流口水的婊子和猴子的笨儿子。
Liou coe shway duh biao-tze huh hoe-tze duh bun ur-tze.
"Stupid son of a drooling whore and a monkey."

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Friday, June 9, 2006 4:41 AM

NIRWIN

As far as I'm concerned Jayne primarily concerns himself with money and self survival, those are his two ambitions, and due to his situation that means he has to do some things that may not sit particularly well with him, but he ignores that niggling feeling.

But what makes me think he is a good guy, is that he clearly has morals and WANTS to do good things, like he really enjoyed being everyones hero in Jaynestown, when he found out what had happened to River in Ariel, he decided to change his mind and not turn them over to the authoritys.

And in the BDM when they discover the secret of the Reavers, he is perfectly prepared to risk his own safety (something he values highly) in order to ensure that what is right is done.

Jayne may believe he ain't and he may not seem it sometimes, but Jayne is a good guy.

---
Nirwin

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Tuesday, June 13, 2006 5:42 AM

SPACEANJL

Character arc. Man's on a journey. Ship is full of people reacting to what the 'verse throws at them.

Morally ambiguous. In need of gentle correction. Or a slap upside the head. Conflicted. Professional Bad Man, and a criminal.

But not evil.

SpaceAnJL

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Tuesday, June 13, 2006 5:54 AM

MSG

I would also like to point out that in The Message it's obvious that one of Jayne uses for the money he gets is to support his family ( mom and sister) so there may be an underlying pressure for him. I guess I just see Jayne as loveable and fun and that he occasionally has bad impulses but generally he's a decent guy:)

You're only young once, but you can be immature any time!

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Tuesday, June 13, 2006 6:00 AM

SPACEANJL

Off topic - I always thought Mattie was a brother, according to the shooting script?

SpaceAnJL

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Wednesday, June 14, 2006 12:57 PM

MORWEN112

Yeah, I think Mattie's a brother, SpaceAnJL.

I don't think that Jayne is "bad" in an evil way. It's not like he enjoys hurting people, not like Niska or Early do. Sure, he was threatening Laurence the Lawman in the first episode, but I think that was mostly for show. We know he isn't completely cold and conniving. He obviously cares about the welfare of his family (sending credits, keeping in contact with his mother) and he's obviously worried when Kaylee is hurt in Serenity and Book in Safe.

I think his major turning point was at the end of Ariel, when Mal puts him in the airlock and gives him a "talking to." You can see on his face that what Mal is saying about loyalty and sticking together is finally beginning to sink in. Later, he feels remorse for what he did (ie buying a crate of apples for the crew). And I think it completely threw him when Simon said that he wasn't going to hurt him in Trash.

So, sure, Jayne may not be exactly noble but I think he's still going through a change of heart. He's not "bad" per se...merely a little misguided. Besides, even when he's doing something less than honourable, he's still pretty darn funny.

Mine is an evil sugar high laugh! Bwahahahaha!

Morwen

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Thursday, June 15, 2006 3:32 AM

JUUL

Quote:
Originally posted by SpaceAnJL:
Off topic - I always thought Mattie was a brother, according to the shooting script?

SpaceAnJL

Haven't read the shooting script. But you gotta wonder: Jayne has a girls name for a reason... maybe his sister has a boys name. Swapped at birth?

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Thursday, June 15, 2006 5:35 AM

MSG

Now all I wonder is if Mattie has a nice woolen hat too...I really think Jayne is a decent guy who just has some bad impulses and the fact that he feels guilt and remorse shows he's pretty decent. Hmm maybe Jayne's mom meant to call him James but since she has such interesting spelling and all it just ended up Jayne:) Who knows

You're only young once, but you can be immature any time!

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