The Asian Factor by Darwin

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The Asian Factor

POSTED BY: DARWIN
UPDATED: Sunday, June 6, 2004 11:45
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VIEWED: 9477
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Monday, January 12, 2004 3:24 AM

First off, let me just say that I f'n love firefly and the DVD set has made me appreciate how a groundbreakingly fine show was truly lost. Ain't no justice in a capital unjustified.

by capital I mean, money....cause that somehow...seems....correct.....I don't know.

I love the uniqueness of the mixing cultures and music and languages....but....

Where the heck were the chinese characters??

Sure there were chinese people "in the background"
But there were no speaking roles. No allies, no villains. I thought, wow this is so cool, a show giving props to asian culture, but there were no asian characters. I sure hope Simon and River (as wicked-awesome as they were) weren't suppose to be the "asians" what with the Tams thing.
There were british, africans, russians, europeans, but no chinese people.

Now maybe it was all part of the plan, and that Blue Sun would be a play on the Japanese's Red sun but since nothing became of that it was to say the least disapointing It would've soooo cool to see a special ops group of ninja assasins or old friend of Book's that was a warrior monk.

With all of that spewed, maybe the show would've explored that, but since it never got to go there, I'm a little disapointed.

And that' pretty much the end of my rant.
Thanks for listening.

'til Howard Dean learns how to smile...

I'm still unknown.

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Monday, January 12, 2004 3:29 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

I think the series was cut down to early to say that there would not have been Asian characters of substance somewhere down the road. Given time I think we would have seen Asian characters. We would have had to w/ the Chinese influences.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

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Thursday, January 15, 2004 8:59 AM

CAITLYN

I think the show ended way too early. I expect we may have seen a segregated society: some Chinese-dominated planets and some American-dominated ones from pre-Alliance days. Just a theory, of course.

Anyway, I would love to have seen more done with the Chinese influence. All kinds of things could have been done.

Jos "jen duh sh tyen tsai"

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Thursday, January 15, 2004 9:33 AM

PHLEBOTININ

Darwin,

I was thinking the same things you were. But I do think that this would have been dealt with if the series had been allowed to continue.

Speaking of ethnicities, does anyone know what Morena Baccarin's ethnicity is? I know her family is from Brazil, but is she Indian? When she's wearing her sari-type outfits she looks so much like a beautiful Indian woman. Could just be me. Also, anyone correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't she say in "Serenity" that she grew up in Sihnon? Joss said in an interview that's on the official Fox site for the series that Sihnon is meant to represent China (and Londinium is meant to represent the U.S.) Is Inara meant to be "Chinese?"

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Thursday, January 15, 2004 10:00 AM

SHINY

I was kind of hoping someone would ask this at the LA convention...not as a criticism, but just to understand if Joss ever considered casting an Asian as one of the major characters or recurring guest stars. It's entirely possible that they felt the level of talent among english-speaking asian actors is not yet high enough (or at least among those that showed up to try out) or that they thought asians speaking with a southern drawl would be distracting (although I don't think it would be much weirder that hearing the cast struggle with Mandarin).

RIVER
Purple elephants are flying.
MAL
Good. Thanks for the update.

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Friday, January 16, 2004 4:15 AM

CAITLYN

If Inara is Chinese then I must be one of the purple elephants River sees flying

Seriously, I hope not.

"Yes, sir, Captain Tightpants."

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Friday, January 16, 2004 7:26 AM

OKKAY

Quote:
Originally posted by Shiny:
I was kind of hoping someone would ask this at the LA convention...not as a criticism, but just to understand if Joss ever considered casting an Asian as one of the major characters or recurring guest stars. It's entirely possible that they felt the level of talent among english-speaking asian actors is not yet high enough (or at least among those that showed up to try out) or that they thought asians speaking with a southern drawl would be distracting (although I don't think it would be much weirder that hearing the cast struggle with Mandarin).

Maybe the problem with having one major asian character would be the weirdness of hearing one person speak the chinese phrases very well, and the rest not so well (to put it mildly). With all non-asian characters, at least we can pretend they're all speaking the same kind of future-chinese that the language eventually evolved to.

Of course, having an asian actor doesn't necessarily guarantee a good chinese accent; the asian potential slayer in the last season of Buffy butchered her cantonese. I wouldn't have understood her if not for the subtitles.

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Saturday, January 17, 2004 4:06 AM

DARWIN

Quote:
Originally posted by Shiny:
I was kind of hoping someone would ask this at the LA convention...not as a criticism, but just to understand if Joss ever considered casting an Asian as one of the major characters or recurring guest stars. It's entirely possible that they felt the level of talent among english-speaking asian actors is not yet high enough (or at least among those that showed up to try out) or that they thought asians speaking with a southern drawl would be distracting (although I don't think it would be much weirder that hearing the cast struggle with Mandarin).

Yeah Shiny I agree with you about the whole asian talent not as developed thing.

Brace yourselves this rant may offend types...
To go off firefly topic:

I watched "Better Luck Tommorow" which is an allasian cast feature, and, though it was definetly groundbreaking in terms of breaking stereotypes, I couldn't help but think, the parts coulda been done better by caucasians (given a rewrite) Though the performances given were still above the regular par. It is unique though.

I saw yesturday some production designs for the anime EVANGELION and it seems that all the characters are being changed from japanese to caucasian (even the name REI is now RAY), apparently the same is being done to AKIRA for the live action version. So I came to conclude that execs pretty much think...

"asians are not marketable"

Which is unfortunately true. I got to thinking though, how come corporations can turn lack rappers into maketing machines, but can't have asians doing the kung-fu (at least not anymore)Why...

"asians are not marketable"

In most mainstream movies we're viewed as fighters with no sex drive or cold-blooded gangsters that are surrounded by women, but never f'kem. evil villains who prance around their brides, but don't touch them. And no man doesn't want women...unless they're gay. And a hetero-man doesnt wanna feel like that. So it ultimately makes...

"asians are not marketable"

Women don't want men who don't yearn for them. Most of the times asians are portrayed as old men, balding with a funny accent. That's not sexy. So it makes...

"asians are not marketable"

I don't blame the creators for not being able to go anywhere, and I'm sure firefly and joss and tim had great ideas to go places with it. But I think ultimately they would've been shot down because...

"asians are not marketable"

who knows, I'm probably wrong
or maybe I've always been.

'til the cats in the cradle with a silver spoon

I'm still unknown.
(yeah I'm chinese)

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Monday, February 2, 2004 11:35 PM

FLAMETREE

Having seen the DVD's I came to the same impression that others did in that the characters are meant to be the equivalent of unsophisticated country local.

Much of the "high culture" when it appeared, was asian. Take a look at the kind of clothes Inara wears. Also when Kaylee is looking for a present for simon it is a plate with a chinese design she considers.I think there would have been more character development and asian characters if the show had got established. What about other inflences as well?

Having said all that I was surprised at the degree of homogonisations in the cast and all the other speaking parts.

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Tuesday, February 3, 2004 4:59 AM

ZEKE023

Remember that Joss is all about equality. He has interacial relationships, gay relationships (portrayed well - unlike in other shows), and all sorts of "off the mainstream" things in his shows.

I think Joss is more of a groundbreaker pushing for liberal ethics than we're giving him credit for.

-Z

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Tuesday, February 3, 2004 2:30 PM

KURUKAMI

Y'know, given Daniel Day Kim's recurring role on "Angel", it probably would've been only a matter of time before he turned up on "Firefly". *wistful smile*

History doesn't always repeat itself. Sometimes it merely shouts "Weren't you listening the first time?!?" and lets fly with a club.

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Tuesday, February 3, 2004 2:57 PM

SHINY

Quote:
Originally posted by Kurukami:
Y'know, given Daniel Day Kim's recurring role on "Angel", it probably would've been only a matter of time before he turned up on "Firefly". *wistful smile*

Daniel was the first person I thought of as well, not because of Angel (sorry, don't watch Angel/Buffy), but because of the association I have with him as one of the only asian actors that has been in sci-fi -- Star Trek: Voyager, Crusade (the babylon 5 spin-off), I even saw him when flipping the channels on that 'Charmed' show. Actually, checking out IMDB, it turns out he's been a guest on lots of other shows (like 24, Law & Order, NYPD Blue, ...):

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0196654/

RIVER
Purple elephants are flying.
MAL
Good. Thanks for the update.

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Tuesday, February 3, 2004 7:17 PM

FFYING2

Quote:
Originally posted by phlebotinin:
Speaking of ethnicities, does anyone know what Morena Baccarin's ethnicity is?

I read somewhere that she's "Brazilian" (Portuguese, or just from there?) and Italian. I forget where, but I found this link:

"Brazilian-Italian beauty Morena Baccarin, the 23-year-old New Yorker (by way of Rio de Janeiro)"
http://www.morena-baccarin.com/news/121902.html

Quote:
Could just be me. Also, anyone correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't she say in "Serenity" that she grew up in Sihnon? Joss said in an interview that's on the official Fox site for the series that Sihnon is meant to represent China (and Londinium is meant to represent the U.S.) Is Inara meant to be "Chinese?"

You're right, but I don't think she's supposed to be Chinese. Her surname is Serra, a Spanish name (Fr. Junipero Serra of the California missions).

I'd like to see Inara go back to the Guild House on Sihnon, and we'd see that it and everything else there is run by Chinese people.

Ying
Firefly Funsite http://fireflyfunsite.home.att.net
Firefly Chinese Pinyinary http://fireflychinese.home.att.net

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Wednesday, February 4, 2004 12:05 PM

OKKAY

Here's my justification for why there don't seem to that many asians: most people are mixed. It's set way in the future, the nations we know of today are pretty much gone, so maybe people of every race just end up living everywhere. Eventually most people just end up being mixed.

Yeah, it's kind of a stretch, but it's a possibility. Most of the half-white/half-asian people I know look more white than asian.

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Sunday, February 15, 2004 5:28 AM

SERENITYNOW

As a white girl in Taipei, let me tell you that no Chinese people in Firefly is totally believable. This show is about the backwater--about the Nobodies. The Chinese would be /Somebodies/--they would be the leading civilization. What we see is the effect of this mainstream and sophisticated culture.

Here in Taipei, everyone sprinkles English in when talking to each other. /I'm/ the oddity here, not English--English and Western culture is everywhere, not Western expats. And the English they use, and the Western culture they emulate is /not/ the stuff we're familiar with--it's a sinicized version. For example, there are tons of bakeries here, but the bread is nothing like what we would get in Europe or the US--the taste is geared entirely a Chinese palate, with a Western veneer.

I think Joss is on the right track. Putting Chinese people in would be showing the full picture. In Firefly, we're only seeing part of it--that's what makes it interesting.

That doesn't mean I wouldn't love to see Su Chi, Michelle Yeoh, or even George Takei do a guest spot in a future Firefly series return--perhaps as a major Alliance figure.

http://dryope.typepad.com/superfly/

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Wednesday, April 7, 2004 4:44 PM

SAMSUNG955

Heh George Takei, I love that bastard's voice. :)

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Thursday, April 8, 2004 4:09 AM

LIZ

on the commentary for Serenity (i think) Joss talks about this a little bit. He was looking at Asian and non-Asian actors for the Tams at least (which fits into the whole nobodies and somebodies bit). If i'm remembering correctly, it's the commentary as Simon is gives the "I am very smart" speech.
i hope that we get to see Sihnon in the movie, i mean it is the other half of this grand alliance.

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Thursday, April 8, 2004 6:16 AM

MAUGWAI

Quote:
Originally posted by Kurukami:
Y'know, given Daniel Day Kim's recurring role on "Angel", it probably would've been only a matter of time before he turned up on "Firefly". *wistful smile*

Darn it, I was gonna say that! I love Daniel Dae Kim! I'm still sad he turned into a zombie.

"Dear diary, today I was pompous and my sister was crazy."

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Friday, April 23, 2004 7:01 PM

HOWDYROCKERBABY1

Quote:
Originally posted by Darwin:
First off, let me just say that I f'n love firefly and the DVD set has made me appreciate how a groundbreakingly fine show was truly lost. Ain't no justice in a capital unjustified.

by capital I mean, money....cause that somehow...seems....correct.....I don't know.

I love the uniqueness of the mixing cultures and music and languages....but....

Where the heck were the chinese characters??

Sure there were chinese people "in the background"
But there were no speaking roles. No allies, no villains. I thought, wow this is so cool, a show giving props to asian culture, but there were no asian characters. I sure hope Simon and River (as wicked-awesome as they were) weren't suppose to be the "asians" what with the Tams thing.
There were british, africans, russians, europeans, but no chinese people.

Now maybe it was all part of the plan, and that Blue Sun would be a play on the Japanese's Red sun but since nothing became of that it was to say the least disapointing It would've soooo cool to see a special ops group of ninja assasins or old friend of Book's that was a warrior monk.

With all of that spewed, maybe the show would've explored that, but since it never got to go there, I'm a little disapointed.

And that' pretty much the end of my rant.
Thanks for listening.

'til Howard Dean learns how to smile...

I'm still unknown.

what you have to realize is that its been 500 years since earth-that-was, was destroyed, the cultures have ultimately been put in a huge melting pot theirfore dilluting who is asian and who is not. By that time line the Tam's may have been considered a very asian family, but we just don't know.

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
"Here's to Jayne, the box dropping man-ape-gone-wrong-thing"
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

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Sunday, April 25, 2004 9:44 AM

HEROPA

I notice these things too. I think that one of the problems in getting Asian actors in America is getting ones that come off as good in OUR market. Being a good actor is relative to those casting and they have to factor TPTB above their own aproval. Let's face it, Asians are not marketable to THEM. They dismiss Jett Li and Jackie Chan as flukes. Truth is, if Garrett Wang was more serious about doing the work he'd be a top actor. Asians without accents are accepted and not expected to fight with chops and kicks. The network executives still think we want this, or that it sells better. The truth is, not only are they wrong about us as fans, they're selling the rest of America short too.

You can't tell how fast a rig is when it's parked.
It is better to teach a lesson than to be left as an example.

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Monday, April 26, 2004 4:56 PM

DRAGONWINE

Are you kidding! Akira and Evangelion live action films with out Asians in the lead roles! OMG! I love those but sounds like they will end up no better than the live action Guyver! Please say it ain't so!

It's a nothing part til you don't got one, then you have to go to ebay.....aaaaagh!

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Thursday, May 13, 2004 1:36 AM

ELFRENETICO

It does kind of stand out that there are no Asians in the crew considering the premise of the show. An Asian American friend of mine auditioned for the part of Kaylee and she loved the sides she was given to read. Even back then she could tell it would be a great show. So at some point Joss was open to a more multi-ethnic cast. I guess he just fell in love with the actors we have all come to know and love.

There are many MANY amazing Asian American actors out there. Some of them have authentic southern accents. I’m a big fan of Hong Kong movies and Hollywood has started importing some of their best directors and several of their action stars, but it would be great to see some of their great comedians and leading ladies get some work.

Hopefully the movie will help flesh out this part of the Firefly universe.

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Sunday, June 6, 2004 11:01 AM

SIKKUKUT

Yeah, this has always bothered me as well. The argument that we're not seeing the whole picture on Firefly only holds so much water. After all, we do see Asians-- on the Eavesdown docks in "Serenity," on the train in "The Train Job," in the posse that captures Mal's buyers in "Safe..." But none of them are ever important enough to utter a line, in mandarin OR english.

I think it probably does come back to the fact that Asians are not marketable. I saw B.D. Wong speak last year, and he talked at length about the difficulties an Asian actor faces-- especially if he's unwilling to take extremely stereotyped roles. Firefly would be the perfect venue to twist that kind of crap around, but it's possible that TPTB at Fox wouldn't allow it... in which case, we can probably expect some Asian characters in the movie, I hope.

If it was a concsious choice on Joss's part, then... huh?

______________________________________
"You're mean. Firefly's making me reconsider my lifelong devotion to Star Trek." --My mother

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Sunday, June 6, 2004 11:34 AM

HELL'S KITTEN

I don't know if this means anything, since it was cut from the final version of Serenity, but there's one line in the shooting script that really stood out the first time I read it. Recall Book wandering about the Eavesdown Docks looking at the ships:

MAN: You going on a trip, grandpa? Need safe passage? We're cheap, we're cheap and clean, The BRUTUS is the best ship in the 'verse. What's your des, grandpa, we're hitting the outer rings --

BOOK: I never married.

MAN #2: What?

BOOK: I'm not a grandpa.

The guy just looks at him like he's crazy, let's him move on past the next barker, MAN #2. The guy is fancy, with people gathered around -- his ship is clearly high class.

MAN #2: -- three berths left, junior suites, we are not interested in Asian or Catholic passengers, thank you, we will be bidding for the last three berths --

Book moves on. Comes to the third dock in the row. It's Serenity's, Kaylee sits outside it in a lawn chair. He looks at it, never stopping, 'til Kaylee says, smiling:

KAYLEE: You're gonna come with us.

Why "Man #2"s line was cut... who knows... could have been to save time, or it could have been deemed a bit too inflammatory for the execs. Could be part of the history we weren't shown yet; don't see why humanity's failings wouldn't follow 'em out into the black. Anyway, I don't have much more to say about that. I just wanted to point it out and let y'all take a swing at it.

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Sunday, June 6, 2004 11:45 AM

CARDIE

At the very least, we should have seen many more Asians when Alliance vessels or facilities were involved. Everything indicated that the Chinese played a major part in setting up the Alliance. The Tams have a Chinese name, and it would have been perfect for them to be played by actors with at least some Asian ancestry.

I had hoped that the Operative in the film might be Asian, but he's being played by an Anglo-African.

For all the excuses that can be made, this is a huge problem for a show with Firefly's premise about China and the US emerging as the dominant powers on Earth that was.

Cardie

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