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12:00 AM, 02-JUNE-05

Ellison Talks Spielberg's War

SF writer Harlan Ellison questioned why director Steven Spielberg didn't give more credit to fellow author H.G. Wells in his upcoming film adaptation of The War of the Worlds. Speaking to SCI FI Wire at Enigma Con at the University of California, Los Angeles, Ellison said: "What annoys me is that Spielberg is such an egomaniac these days that it has to be 'Steven Spielberg's War of the Worlds. No, you puss-bag. It's H.G. Wells' War of the Worlds, and it wouldn't kill you to put his f--king name on it."

Ellison, author of such books as I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream, added: "That shows his arrogance. It's like Disney. Disney didn't write Snow White or Robin Hood or Bambi, but it's 'Walt Disney's universe.' It's the universe according to frozen Walt."

Ellison hosted a 90-minute panel at the conference, which he titled "How Does SF Stay in Business in a World of Marching Morons?" "Spielberg is only a craftsman, that's all he is," Ellison said. "He's not a genius. He's not a trend setter. There isn't one moment of any Spielberg film ... that matches the least moment of a Kurosawa film. Kurosawa was a blinding genius of cinema. His vision was astonishing."

Ellison said that he has little interest in seeing remakes and added: "We live in a society that values less and less the original."

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Originally posted by Hell's Kitten:
...from an interview with Harlan Ellison (who, by the way, is a really fascinating man to hang around with):

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Originally posted by Tomanta:
I have to agree, the script for this movie was really, really poor. Many, many plot holes - some you pointed out, some you missed. SPOILERS.

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How did Robbie live through the big attack that was meant to make us think he was dead?

WHY would the aliens bury ships on earth and wait for a few thousand years in case something interesting happens and they could use them? I'm fine with aliens invading for no apparent reason, but the method of attack and the poor attempts to explain what they are doing is just bad.

Why do the aliens stick around in a small town outside of Boston all night? Don't they have people to kill? And with how fast they were sucking up humans from those cages, why were they full?

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I have other issues, but I'm lazy.

"Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government."

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
BWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! *gasp* hahahahah *choke* hahahaha *wheeze* hahahah!
Ok, maybe I have a macabre sense of humor, but that just killed me!
<--wiping coffee off his screen...

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Why were the humans stuck like grapes and stuck one at a time ? Why not (pardon the greusomness) shovel us in giant shredders and spray us around like mulch??? Glad they didn't, personally.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Sure, you know the story by now. But Spielberg takes a few liberties here and there w/ the classic, while still paying homage to the original. Just saw it today, so here are my thoughts ( not so much a review..)

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I didn't like this movie very much. It had some dandy visuals, as damn well it should. But several things about this movie didn't work - AT ALL. Tom Cruise plays a divorced dad-Ray. Robbie and Rachel are his kids who generally stay w/ mom and her new hubby. Robbie's the defiant older son, and Rachel is the wise-beyond-her-years younger daughter. Ok, to the point. What I HATED about his movie is how everyone reacts to things woefully unnatural. Lightning strikes the ground and makes a hole in the street, so everyone crowds around to take a look. Ok, fine. But when the ground below starts to shake, and cracks in the pavement start radiating from said hole ?? RUN LIKE HELL?? Nawwh...seems everyone in NY simply moves back a few feet to give this phenomenon a bit more space to .... shake more and break up more pavement? No friggin way.

Continuing w/ the tearing up of the ground beneath their feet, the curious citizens of NY city kinda sorta think it's about time to move away...only after a SUV falls into the ever widening sink hole..and GETS TOSSED 50 ft in the air back out!! (Begin mingling away, but not TOO fast....) So out pops a ginormous 3 legged alien ship...100 ft tall? ( think giant walking machines from Matrix ) Yeah, I'm thinking taking pictures as you're still STANDING there is a smart thing to do.... untill the vaporizing rays start blasting and NOW you decide it's time to run. But the idiots run DIRECTLY away from the aliens ..as in line of sight! No one thinks of scurruing down an alley or crossing the street a few times to zig zag their way out of certain death....And folks keep DOING this through out the movie....

Then there's Robbie. He's out to prove something to his now distant Dad. In one scene that makes no sense what so ever, Robbie decides to become a man, he MUST defy his father. He wants to SEE our tanks,planes and helicopters do battle w/ an array of alien ships, just over the ridge. Never mind that he's SEEN what these things can do... " I just gotta see! " Bullshit! You run and get the hell OUT of there. Lame ass script, imo! Father tries to get son to come back w/ him, leaving the young daughter all alone (sorta) as the end of all humanity rages just over the ridge. Please. So, Dad lets teenage son go... ( oh, the symbolism ), who promply runs head long over the ridge ( no gun, no training, not even a damn stick in his hand! ) and BLAMO! All hell breaks loose, the aliens bust through the lines and leave Daddy and daughter fleeing in terror.

Then they're saved by Tim Robbin's character(Ogilvy ). He's holed up in his celler, w/ a shot gun and an ax. He's survived the initial onslaught, and isn't worried about seeing death ( he's an ambulance driver , or was ) But when he see's the aliens making humans into fertilizer for ..more aliens? galactic ganja ? ... THAT'S when he really loses it. See, all the death, destruction, mayhem and losing his entire family was hard to take, but THIS!! He starts screaming and carrying on ..'Not MY blood! Not MY blood!'. So, Ray does what any sensible father would do in that situation. He blindfolds Rachel, closes the door and then kills Ogilvy. Riiight.

Ok, so both dad and daughter get snatched up in an alien ship and are about to become Purina Alien Chow , only dad finds a few handy gernades and..well, naturally he destoys the ship and they escape. And I can only assume that when you kill one giant walking tripod alien ship, none of the others will dare mess w/ you. I say this because the two end up finally making it to Boston, where dad's ex is staying for the weekend. Despite the fact that all the major centers of civilization have been destroyed, they decide it's best to go looking at another one first..just to be sure.

And in a scene that's sure to piss off anyone from New York, Ray walks by a statue of a MinuteMan ( the 1776 variety ) and notices something. The gooey, red vines of alien blood crop that had growing like Kudzu in south Georgia everywhere else are now dying. Here, in Boston, is where humanity makes its last stand. Ray then notices the alien ships have lost their shilds, tells the not so clued in military guys , who then begin blasting the already dying alien ships to hell. ( Much like that icky King in Dragon Slayer. ) Yay for us?

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More spoilers here!!!!

I'm sure hundreds of people had already started running, leaving their neighbors behind. The ones who did stay behind were the cops, public service folk, and, of course, the civilians who are a little more daring than their neighbors who just took off. These are the same people who respond to danger by running TO IT!. Remember in "Alien", John Hurt's character is lowered into the alien ship and sees all those thousands of eggs, and one of them opens up? At first, he takes a few steps back, afraid, but at the same time, fascinated. We know what happens next.

Those people that finally decide to run are doing just that - running. Some look for cover, some don't. The ones that don't, get vaporized. When the towers fell on 9/11, people ran everywhere. It's called panic.

Robbie just realized he no longer wants to run. I think that could happen to anyone. He wants to fight. So, he decides to join the soldiers who are fighting and dying to protect those people who are running. And Ray sees that in him, and he decides to let the older sibling go. Ray can't tell his own son what to do anymore, he's beyond that.

Ogilvy just saw that tentacle snake through his basement, and those alien creatures (almost) face-to-face. Ray keeps him under control till they leave. Then Ogilvy starts digging in the ground, talking about making a tunnel all the way to the city, and Ray knows he's lost it, and he knows that Ogilvy might give away their hiding place. Remember, he's trying to protect his daughter, and if you are a parent, NOTHING is more important.

Ray just saw his daughter snatched up by the tripod. He has to go to her. He finds a burned out Hummer (remember, there were plenty of those left around), and purposefully attracts the attention of the tripod. He kills it, but only that one, out of pure desperation and blind luck.

Ray goes to Boston for his daughter, so she can have some measure of peace and hope that his daughter's mother might still be alive. Not everyone one was killed, not all the buildings were destroyed (or so Ray was hoping).

I'm pretty sure Boston was not the only city making a last stand. People are still alive and still running, and their are still other people (soldiers) trying to protect them. Most are too busy with that to notice that these tripods are starting to act weird.

WotW is not a movie about special effects, like Independence Day or Armaggedon. It's about a father and his kids, trying to do what they can, to stay alive, with the specials effects adding to the tension (and what special effects!). I believe that if you have children (as I do), this movie will affect you in a deeper way. If you don't have kids, you won't know what I'm talking about.

Everyone dies alone.

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Originally posted by ecgordon:

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Originally posted by Hell's Kitten:
...from an interview with Harlan Ellison (who, by the way, is a really fascinating man to hang around with):

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You can't get away with a pronouncement like that without more explanation. When and where were you lucky enough to hang out with Harlan?

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WHen we first saw the humans get drained of blood from the alien thing, the first thing I thought was River. "The human body can be drained of blood in 8.6 seconds, given adequate vacumming systems..." lol I love bein a browncoat!

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Originally posted by BlackEyedGirl:
I hate to be the bitch here but are any of you familiar with the original broadcast or at least of the basic original material? Sounds like Spielberg did whatever the hell he felt like with this "adaption" which to me sounds more and more like Spielberg taking a story people were kinda familiar with and compeltely molding it into what he wanted it to be with little reverence to the original brilliance.

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I mean in the original the aliens come from the damn sky, not the earth. Sounds like Independance Day was closer to WotW than this version. What kills the aliens in this one?

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I have no plans to see this movie as the first one was awesome. It's my mom's favorite movie, and we have the original radio broadcast on CD and let me tell you all the Spielberg and Cruise on earth couldn't improve on those.

BTW: Fun fact: ET was based off the actual alien in the original War of the Worlds, it's a 'blink and you'll miss it' moment, but once you see it you realize Spielberg's been sucking ideas off of others for longer than you thought.

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Inara: "Do aliens live among us?"
Kaylee: "Yes. One of them's a doctor."

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Originally posted by MainlyMe:
Spoilers....kinda










My only major qualm is that the aliens spend an entire day investigating a cabin in the middle of nowhere, but don't touch the pretty buildings in Boston?

At the end, when those people came out, I think they were just shocked to see something had been happening outside: "Wait a second....when did this...How long were we playing Boggle?"

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Originally posted by Hell's Kitten:
I haven't seen it yet, and I'm not entirely sure I will.


Hell's Kitten (are you a Hell's Kitchen Fan?),
I totally agree with Ellison! Tom Cruise is a total media whore (or should I say media "companion" ) Why do most of these Hollywood types think that they are God's gift to the silver screen?
If I see another magazine cover with Tom Cruise and his love-de-jour....

NUF SAID!

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Originally posted by Opus:
I saw the film Friday, pretty good, but it lost a lot by having Cruise as the star. Tom Cruise is good at playing Tom Cruise. He plays the same character over and over.
They should have gone with an unknown, or if they absolutely needed a star maybe Ed Norton or someone along those lines.
It would be nice if they actually had made the story from the book.
The main character is never named, the majority of the book he isn't running from the alien machines,but following them and it takes place in England.
The biggest plot hole for me, from the film...if the aliens came and buried the machines, I'm guessing centuries ago. Wouldn't they have learned about earth germs, virus's and bacteria then? The book deals with the issue quite well.
Also, why bury them? Except for a way for the filmakers to create a great visual it seems like a stupid idea.

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Originally posted by BlackEyedGirl:

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I mean in the original the aliens come from the damn sky, not the earth. Sounds like Independance Day was closer to WotW than this version. What kills the aliens in this one?

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Originally posted by tmurrie:

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Originally posted by BlackEyedGirl:

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I mean in the original the aliens come from the damn sky, not the earth. Sounds like Independance Day was closer to WotW than this version. What kills the aliens in this one?

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well I believe that it was...

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Well I thought that the aliens died because their immune systems sucked, and they basically died of all the bacteria that was on Earth. I don't blame these aliens, planting their giant tripod things millions of years ago, just so they can tackle a bunch of ants(humans), and they didn't even think to check it for an influenza, isn't that how the original ended? or am I going crazy again. Also, that Ray guy Tom Cruise played would NOT have killed Tim Robbins character, now THAT was out of character big time...

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peace out playa

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You are 100% right! There is no way that Ray would kill anybody!
You also know that the Military has got a lot of "Star Wars" toys that would easily bring down a 1 million year old man eating tri-pod space craft

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Originally posted by Daikath:
I loved the movie, another Spielberg classic.

The movie wasnt a direct adaption of the book because that movie had already been made very excelent. Instead they went with the new perspective of having it all happening to another person like you and me. Not another super hero who runs into them.

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Originally posted by danfan:
2) "... so with all the drilling and digging we've done, why weren't they found?" What is the deepest building foundation or subway tunnel ever dug? Perhaps a couple hundred feet? Put the machines 10 feet deeper and no construction company will ever find them. Why didn't any geological drillings find them? What is the cross section of a geological/oil core? A foot? Two? Need to drill a lot of those to find a few thousand machines scattered about the face of the planet.

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Originally posted by GunRunner:
“Star Wars” toys? Hah! Good old-fashioned cold war era tactical nuclear weapons would bring them down.

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Originally posted by Daikath:

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Originally posted by GunRunner:
“Star Wars” toys? Hah! Good old-fashioned cold war era tactical nuclear weapons would bring them down.

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In the original movie atomic weapons failed.

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Originally posted by GunRunner:

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Originally posted by danfan:
2) "... so with all the drilling and digging we've done, why weren't they found?" What is the deepest building foundation or subway tunnel ever dug? Perhaps a couple hundred feet? Put the machines 10 feet deeper and no construction company will ever find them. Why didn't any geological drillings find them? What is the cross section of a geological/oil core? A foot? Two? Need to drill a lot of those to find a few thousand machines scattered about the face of the planet.

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A giant metal alien killing machine would show up nicely on a Magnetic Anomaly Detectors found on naval sub hunting aircraft and Gunships like the AC-130.

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Originally posted by GunRunner:
Any nuclear reaction (I assume the aliens are using some for advanced form of nuclear power) would show up on military surveillance satellites.

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Originally posted by danfan:

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3) "Any nuclear reaction would show up on military surveillance satellites." From my research, it appears that military satellites detect nuclear events (i.e., detonations) and perhaps significant radiation sources. Much more information than that appears to be hard to come by. If an underground reactor is inactive (or if it ISN'T a nuclear reactor in the form we are familiar with... say a fusion reactor) then our sats might not detect a thing.

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Surveillance Satellites can detect the heat produced by a reactor (an inactive reactor still produces some heat) and the effect that heat causes on the local environment (melting ice, changes in local water and soil)- the USAF and NRO use(d) these tip offs to located subterranean nuclear plants and warhead manufacturing plants in Russia.

And yes the Aliens could use something totally foreign to us, but I assume they have the same basic technologys we have.


EV Nova Firefly mod Message Board:
http://s4.invisionfree.com/GunRunner/index.php?act=idx

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Originally posted by GunRunner:
And yes the Aliens could use something totally foreign to us, but I assume they have the same basic technologys we have.

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Originally posted by danfan:
And on a related topic... debating fuel sources for a fictional craft in a B movie makes me feel so ... pathetically geekish. But it's fun. Why is that? ;-)

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Originally posted by danfan:
As far as the plot goes, I too admit that it had its holes. Yet, the journey was enjoyable enough for me that the plot holes didn't break me out of the story.

However, some of the complaints I've seen from several people don't seem quite cricket to me:

1) "...the things have been buried for millions of years, why weren't they found?" Only one character said they had been buried for millions of years and he was a NUTBAG! Before he was a nutbag, he was an AMBULANCE DRIVER. I don't get my scientific information about subterranean features from nutbags or ambulance drivers (no disrespect meant to the drivers... I think they are great at what they do). So why does this one crazy man's pronouncement become gospel? Far more likely they were buried a few thousand years ago. Hence geologic activity is no impact. And the nutbag's knowledge that the devices were buried millions of years ago came from the same store of knowledge that informed him he could dig with a shovel all the way to New York where the Resistance was forming up in the subway tunnels.

2) "... so with all the drilling and digging we've done, why weren't they found?" What is the deepest building foundation or subway tunnel ever dug? Perhaps a couple hundred feet? Put the machines 10 feet deeper and no construction company will ever find them. Why didn't any geological drillings find them? What is the cross section of a geological/oil core? A foot? Two? Need to drill a lot of those to find a few thousand machines scattered about the face of the planet.

3) "... so why didn't the aliens do X or Y like we would?" I think the operative word is "alien." They would operate by their own precepts... some of which might be fatally flawed. Just as we do... just as ours are. Viet Nam. Waterloo. The list is endless.

4) "... so why didn't they think of vaccinations?" This ending was cutting edge, state of the art when Wells wrote it a century ago. It is admittedly weak now. But it doesn't take much forgiveness to make it work. Say they buried the things 7000 years ago. They vaccinated against the tuberculosis of that time. With our own medical technology, we have grown TB that eats yesterday's antibiotics like potato chips. How effective would a 7000 year old vaccination be against that? We've grown Super Staph that makes yesterday's version look geriatric. A new flu virus every year. The list goes on. Admittedly, why wouldn't the invaders have thought of that? Good question. A plot hole. I'll accept it because the story was entertaining.

Just a few thoughts.

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