The Matrix Revolutions *SPOILERS* by SpaceAngler

I am hoping for alternate endings in the dvd. I liked this movie quite a bit. I could have wished for a little more "matrix" style fighting like was done in the first ones, but there was plenty of good blow-em-up scenes to make up for it. I really really liked the gun machines that the humans controlled which they used to fight off the incoming bug-machines. I liked the massive swarms of machines too... like a flock of birds all moving in unison.
Also the 2 gals runnin around with the rocket launcher were kick-ass! Of course, my favorite gal Trinity made the entire movie worth watching even if there were no one else in it.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, November 10, 2003 10:15 AM

KESSIE

The effects were great but i was dissapointed in the story esp the ending !
And how the hell can somebody give a whole goodbye speech with three tires through her stomach and not be in immense pain? *shakes head* But it was better then the second part !

They say it’s the last song
They don’t know us, you see
Its only the last song
If we let it be

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, November 10, 2003 10:25 AM

NOXIOUS

Great special effects, awesome fight scenes, great cinematics, and a complete lack of plot as far as I could tell. A bit of a disappointment for me as I was hoping they could live up to the first one while saying they couldn't the whole time. Why did they have to make me, of all people, right?

I think what got on my nerves the most was Neo and Trinity being SUPER DENSE about Mr. Smith being outside the Matrix. They should have caught that at the first Mr. Anderson.

You are
What you do
When it counts
-The Masao

Most Probably,
Noxious

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, November 10, 2003 12:11 PM

STARGAZER7

Too bad the poor review "spoiled" it for me. I read some that were so harsh, I would rather presrve the dream of the Matrix than subject my sci-fi romantic disposition to disappointment.
Speaking of good sci-fi, have you guys heard that they are re-intruducing the beloved Battlestar Galactica?? I am so looking forward to the resurrection of that gem. I think it is supposed to air sometime around the second week in December. Set your TiVo, yo....not to be missed.

Hmmm...upgrades. -Neo

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, November 10, 2003 4:50 PM

Revolutions made me ashamed to be me. When so many of my mates were slating Reloaded, I staunchly stood by it. After all, Reloaded and Revolutions were, essentially, one big story. They were just split down the middle. So all the little things that might not have quite rung true, the confusing bits, all of that, they'd be resolved in Revolutions. You have to see part three, I was saying, before you can judge part two.

And then I saw Revolutions. And it was poo.

Scant plot. Scenes that stretched on for no reason. Entire elements of the plot that had no bearing on the film. Questions left unanswered or, worse, answered in the stupidest manner possible (how can Neo do those things in the real world? The power of the One stretches from him to the Source. What kind of answer is that?) The ending was stupid.

I still stand by the first two films. I just think that Revolutions needs an overhaul. A serious, serious overhaul.

JK

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, November 11, 2003 5:56 AM

Quote:
I think what got on my nerves the most was Neo and Trinity being SUPER DENSE about Mr. Smith being outside the Matrix. They should have caught that at the first Mr. Anderson.

I joked that because no one understood the second movie, they had to beat obvious points like this over the head.

I liked Revolutions. It didn't have the aimlessness the first half of Reloaded did, and had some excellent action sequences.

While everyone says the battle for Zion was a Star Wars rip-off, I thought it was exactly like the Battle of Helmsdeep from The Two Towers.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, November 11, 2003 6:35 AM

STILLSHINY

Quote:

While everyone says the battle for Zion was a Star Wars rip-off, I thought it was exactly like the Battle of Helmsdeep from The Two Towers.

I so agree! I like the fact that there was a lot of time spent on people who we're not the "Main" characters.

You think I look good now, wait till you see me in my new "Browncoat T-shirt"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, November 11, 2003 6:47 AM

HKCAVALIER

This last installment seemed thematically a little slight. It really didn't go anywhere surprising. Nothing was revealed that wasn't dead obvious from Reloaded. See, I really liked the second one. I thought the philosophical parts were pretty sophisticated in a buddhist sort of way and the action scenes were phenomenal and important to the plot.

Revolutions really felt like the last ten minutes of a really amazing movie stretched over two hours. *spoiler* I found Trinity's death and resurrection in the second movie powerful and beautiful and her death in this installment seemed hollow and obligatory.

I did like the defending the dock stuff a lot though and Niobe's piloting was great. In fact, I really liked the whole damn thing when I think of it except Neo going to the machine city and his fight with Smith. Oh yeah, and Neo being blinded was totally lame and meaningless.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, November 11, 2003 7:36 AM

I have to admit my own density here. I was and still am of the opinion that Smith was inside the Matrix. Where and when did we find out that his program exists outside the matrix?

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, November 11, 2003 3:40 PM

LEXIBLOCK

Quote:
Originally posted by JK:
Questions left unanswered or, worse, answered in the stupidest manner possible (how can Neo do those things in the real world? The power of the One stretches from him to the Source. What kind of answer is that?)
JK

Like the ships man! He's got so much hardware in his body (old interfaces from his dayin the creche) he's simply hooked up via wireless network!

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, November 11, 2003 4:15 PM

LEXIBLOCK

Quote:
Originally posted by ManiacNumberOne:
I have to admit my own density here. I was and still am of the opinion that Smith was inside the Matrix. Where and when did we find out that his program exists outside the matrix?

Smith downloaded a copy of himself into the brain of Bane (they other guy lying on the slab next to Neo in the beginning)

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, November 11, 2003 7:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by LexiBlock:
Quote:
Originally posted by ManiacNumberOne:
I have to admit my own density here. I was and still am of the opinion that Smith was inside the Matrix. Where and when did we find out that his program exists outside the matrix?

Smith downloaded a copy of himself into the brain of Bane (they other guy lying on the slab next to Neo in the beginning)

ahhh yes, I remember that. I was thinking y'all meant that the Smith that we see in the Matrix was also outside of the matrix. I understand that he was in the body of that guy Bane, but I supposed that you meant the Smith character was also outside that Matrix in his regular Smith body too. Confusion alleviated.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, November 11, 2003 9:24 PM

I loved this movie. I liked it more than the second one, and that one had a lot of luvin' there as well. The big issue I am seeing people have with the movie is that it's not the same as the first one. The only person I have read about saying differently is some critic that I don't believe actually watched the movie he critiqued. All three movies tell a story. The first was the beginning of the story, the second is the middle, and the third is the finale. Taken as a whole, the movie works quite well. I think that may be the real problem folks have with the Matrix movies; they are not self-contained stories. They also require you to think about every aspect of the story. What has gone before has an impact upon what happens now.

When someone said Neo was hooked up wireless, I think they're right. Great story, well worth my money.

Jayne: "How big a room?"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, November 12, 2003 1:29 AM

PEG

It was a lot more interesting than Reloaded. The fire fight on the dock was really great. But two things got on my nerves, the fact that Neo and Trinity didn't recognize Smith when everyone in the audience did and twice Neo called Trinity Trin (that just annoyed the hell out of me). I think Reloaded was a collection of footage they had shot and didn't want to waste, no plot just fights that went on for way too long. Revolutions was better but still not as interesting as the Matrix.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, November 12, 2003 4:34 AM

I'm sorry, but a wireless connection explains nothing, since Neo's power as the One should be logically limited to the Matrix. It's really just a result of him being able to realise that the Matrix is not real. Other rebels, while intellectually knowing this, cannot help but still be partially convinced on some deeper level that what they're seeing and touching and smelling is real. Thus, they don't have the power of the One.

Besides, this still leaves the problem of how Neo could see (and see only machines, at that), why he had to jack in to fight Smith (he'd already learnt to enter the Matrix without jacking in), the fact that the so-called peace won't last five minutes, and the fact that the film was generally poo.

JK

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, November 12, 2003 5:06 AM

SARAHETC

Quote:
Originally posted by JK:

Besides, this still leaves the problem of how Neo could see (and see only machines, at that), why he had to jack in to fight Smith (he'd already learnt to enter the Matrix without jacking in), the fact that the so-called peace won't last five minutes, and the fact that the film was generally poo.
JK

I took the jacking in at the end to mean that Neo was working with an had the support of the Deus Ex Machina and was therefore working both for the humans and the machines against Smith. Though he could have transcended the process and gone wifi (?) the process allowed him more power and perhaps proved to the machine world that the human savior was indeed fighting for peace, not for dominance.

As for the rest of your commentary, doesn't give much for the rest of us to go on.

I thought that Revolutions resonated with theme, chiseling down the main points of the previous two into the single phrase: everything that has a beginning has an end. If the fundamental questions of existence boil down to this duality and all other philosophical pursuits are echoes, remaining dual, then I think this film did well do answer as much as it did.

In this manner, beginning and ending the movie with Sati, who--from what very, very, very little I know about Hindu cosmology represents the love of a wife and the triumph of good over evil (maybe... still learning)--was profound. Despite all the information that led to the finale, and the piles and piles of semantic mumbo-jumbo (remember: the Architect never answered the question), there was still only once choice for each side. Holding on to this duality, the machines have a binary choice: kill this way, or kill this other way. The humans have the same choice inverted: survive this way, or survive another way. Only Neo acts outside the binary paradigm, as he could choose to stop acting altogether. But because he refuses to stop fighting, an important choice by itself, he forces the machines to adopt the choice set of the humans: survive.

As for the peace lasting, you may very well be right and you may very well be wrong. What I took away from the final scene was that the Matrix has evolved to a higher (better?) version, making it more efficient and, as we saw with the sky, more geared toward humans. If Sati can exist as a "useless" program (I think she's a screensaver) then we are to believe that the Matrix itself has undergone a fairly radical revision.

I'm a dying breed who still believes, haunted by American dreams. ---Neko Case

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, November 13, 2003 5:30 AM

I remember reading some guy's theory about why they jacked in Neo to fight Smith. Smith was so dangerous because there was no way to control him. By plugging Neo into the machine core and then letting Agent Smith take him over, Smith is in Neo, who's connected to the machines. Get it? Then they just send the big electrocution (whatever the hell you'd call it) through Neo, killing all the Smiths.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, November 13, 2003 7:27 AM

IAMJACKSUSERNAME

Well, I'm all right. - Mal

Sarahetc, see the disturbing entry for "sati" in the American heritage dictionary 4 at < http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sati>, from the disturbing story of the daughter of Prasuti and Daksha.

I really liked M1, thought M2 was okay, but didn't like M3 - and find it strange that Fireflies would: the reason I like FF is because of the good writing, and M3 had a rather poor script with very weak dialog.

*Spoilers*
I have no problem with the co-operative ending (nicely foreshadowed in M2), nor with what happens to Neo and Trinity; it's the writing that completely put me off. I can normally handle non-consistent internal structure (it is a sci-fi film, not an sf book after all), but the plot holes were glaring.

I did like the rich symbolism tho.

Oh, and it was nice to see Zoë again :).
--
I am Jack's username
Monarch (Firefly sim): < http://tenforward.slasims.com/viewforum.php?f=104>

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, November 13, 2003 7:33 AM

SARAHETC

Quote:
Originally posted by IamJacksUsername:
Sarahetc, see the disturbing [url= http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sati&r=67]entry for "sati" in the American heritage dictionary 4[/url], from the disturbing story of the daughter of Prasuti and Daksha.

When looking it up I did start to notice it as a variant of suttee and got upset and stopped looking. I haven't been able to find a way to connect the word to that particular meaning, tho.

Quote:

I can normally handle non-consistent internal structure (it is a sci-fi film, not an sf book after all), and the rich symbolism didn't make up for the glaring plot holes.

What did you think those plot holes were? The only two I could think of at all were the Oracle's explanation of how Neo worked in the matrix without jacking in and how we left Seraph and Sati under attack by Smiths but then they just turned up okay.

Everything else I feel like I can work out a pretty satisfactory explanation for.

I'm a dying breed who still believes, haunted by American dreams. ---Neko Case

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, November 13, 2003 7:39 AM

SATI is also the name of an Indian Technology School, btw.

--------------------------------------------
"Can he, you know, chase us? Because I know if I woke up looking like that, I'd just run towards the nearest living thing, and then kill it." ~Aqua Teen Hunger Force

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, November 13, 2003 7:45 AM

Here are my two cents: Revolutions sucked. Utterly sucked. I honestly think that the directors discovered religion and completly rewrote the 3rd movie from the original script to try and teach Eastern Religion 101.

This is how I would assume the 3rd movie was originally written: No one was ever freed from the Matrix. Zion is merely a second matrix for the 1 percent of the population that would not accept the Matrix, as mentioned by the Architect. Neo eventually realizes this and frees himself and others from the "Zion Matirx" and the movie ends with Neo and others entering into the real world.

Evidence that Zion is still part of the Matrix can be seen in the Councilman's speach about machines to Neo in Reloaded when he mentions he feels he is still "plugged in." This would explain why Neo would be able to stop squiddies, bring Trinity back to life and for Smith to hack into Zion. The Architect's claim of 5 other Zions and Neos would make much more sense if he was talking about a second Matrix which was still plugged in but too close to undertanding the truth otherwise ehy even bother to free people to start it again? Unless it was a safety net to keep all the people who rejected the original matrix under control and still plugged in. Remember that the machines were cool, caluculating and efficient. (at least until they began teaching Hindu philosophy in subway stations)

Now here are my major complaints from movie #3:
If a hovership can break through the cloud barrier why can't the machines?

If the cloud barrier provides enough electricity to knock the power out of a hovership why don't the machines build a huge lighting rod?

Why don't the machines use geo-thermal energy as a power source if they can drill that deeply?

Finally, if you have an underground nest of hornets do you drill down to it and shoot each one or do you just fumigate the nest? You would think the Machines after having done this 5 times would just send down a lethal dose of radiation or some mustard gas.

-----------
"Societies are supported by human activity, therefore they are constantly threatened by the human facts of self-intrest and stupidity." --Peter Berger

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, November 13, 2003 8:12 AM

If the original idea was to have a "Matrix in a Matrix", then i'm glad they changed it. It's a stupid cop-out, and i'd be pissed. Now about your questions,

A) The Hovership and the Sentinels lost power. However, because the ship was bigger and moving faster, the law of inertia allowed it to pierce the cloud barrier.

B & C) Because humans are a much more efficient power source, and they don't require a lot of silly-ass lightning rods or a big hole.

D) Good point. I don't know if they had the materials for mustard gas, but they could easily radiate Zion, however then i'd be unusable and the cycle couldn't continue.

Hope that helps.

--------------------------------------------
"Can he, you know, chase us? Because I know if I woke up looking like that, I'd just run towards the nearest living thing, and then kill it." ~Aqua Teen Hunger Force

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, November 13, 2003 9:32 PM

LOL, we will have to disagree on a matrix in a matrix being a cop out vs a mind-f**k.

Now onto your answers A,B & C.

A. a hover craft is not designed to go that high, at least from what I have seen. However, it would not be that hard to design something that could.

B&C. Putting up a metal pole to a battery pack is less efficeint than programming, running, suerveying and protecting an on line world with billions of users while simultaniously dealing with constant hacker attacks from people who have rejected this MMORPG? LOL, I think not. But hey to each their own. If you liked the ending all the more power to you. They are even showing it here at IMAX if that would make your day.

-----------
"Societies are supported by human activity, therefore they are constantly threatened by the human facts of self-intrest and stupidity." --Peter Berger

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, November 14, 2003 1:31 AM

Ummm...pole and battery pack? Sorry, but lightning isn't something that can easily be harnessed. WAY too high a voltage and relatively low amperage. Any electrical system (including a battery) that you would hook up to said lightning rod would INSTANTLY detonate from the INCREDIBLE voltage applied. To put it into perspective, it requires 10k volts to jump across a gap of ONE INCH. To reach the ground from 1000 feet, or 12,000 inches, the voltage would have to be roughly 120 MILLION volts. Ow. There is no electrical system in the world (only in the most BLATANTLY magical fantasy or scifi settings) that could handle that. And thats just from a low ceiling of 1k feet thunderhead. Granted, that figure is from normal dry air, not counting on whatever particles are floating about. But even if it dropped the required voltage to one tenth (1kV per inch), that would still require 12 million volts at 1000 feet. Again, ow. The earth handles the strike because it is somewhat big. Oh, when you see in the news where someone got hit by lightning and survived, congratulate them. They are very, very lucky.

Jayne: "How big a room?"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, November 14, 2003 1:36 AM

Oh, and the bit about geo-thermal energy. Have no clue why the machines didn't use that power source. Or the dozens of other potential power sources. But you could make a case for them wanting a little payback, not all of them are cold and calculating. Some may have wanted some sort of punishment, and came up with this twisted form of irony. Some may have also wanted a way to preserve humanity in some form as a reminder of the past. Some machines were capable of such emotions in the flick, could they have wanted humans for such reasons? Maybe, I have seen humans go out of their way to punish another, even so far as to "cut their nose off to spite their face."

Any thoughts on the payback factor?

Jayne: "How big a room?"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, November 14, 2003 1:39 AM

Crap...last one I swear.

As for the hovercraft, who knows what they are capable of? I haven't noticed too many around today to get a comparison of. The bit where Trinity power climbs up and shoots through the cloud cover with inertia is very possible. But really isn't likely to shoot out as far as they did toward the city. Only hang up there, but not that hard to suspend disbelief on.

Jayne: "How big a room?"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, November 14, 2003 7:01 AM

A Matrix in a Matrix would be a little too simple. Something deeper, perhaps. But it would explain what Neo was seeing after he was blinded. I'm sorry, but that looked like code to me.

As for Neo jacking in so the machines could delete him after Smith possessed him, yeah, that makes sense. But it's still not explained why he could have jacked in without aid.

JK

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, November 14, 2003 10:03 AM

Neo wasn't seeing code: It was his inner vision. His "third eye." Yet another Hindu and Budhist concept(Blind man who truly sees crap) which the directors shoved in the movie.

-----------
"Societies are supported by human activity, therefore they are constantly threatened by the human facts of self-intrest and stupidity." --Peter Berger

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, November 14, 2003 10:07 AM

SARAHETC

Quote:
Originally posted by TragicStory:
Neo wasn't seeing code: It was his inner vision. His "third eye." Yet another Hindu and Budhist concept(Blind man who truly sees crap) which the directors shoved in the movie.

And did you notice how, in "inner view," the Deus Ex Machina looked like a mandala?

I'm a dying breed who still believes, haunted by American dreams. ---Neko Case

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, November 14, 2003 10:12 AM

Quote:
SOUTHERNMERC - Ummm...pole and battery pack? Sorry, but lightning isn't something that can easily be harnessed.

you've obviously never seen a flex capacitor.

"Back to the future" shows some great lightning harnessing.

-------------------------------------------
Inara: Who's winning?
Simon: I can't really tell, they don't seem to be playing by any civilized rules that I know.
-------------------------------------------

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, November 14, 2003 11:59 AM

What really irritated me about this movie was the fact that story, plot and explanation was sacrified for religious symbolism and Eastern philosophy, which was not what the original fans had signed up for.

-----------
"Societies are supported by human activity, therefore they are constantly threatened by the human facts of self-intrest and stupidity." --Peter Berger

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, November 14, 2003 12:58 PM

Your irritation is understandable, but the Eastern philosophy was there from the beginning. Granted, it was hiding in the cracks between all the bullet-time, but it was present. My big beef was they didn't have any other supporting people in the matrix like Switch or Apoc, two supporting characters that I really, really liked. The Big Three (Morph, Trin, and Neo) didn't seem to need any other help, and no one seemed to volunteer to give them a hand either. You'd think being the One would make you popular enough to warrant that.

Btw, did anyone else notice that One and Neo are anagrams?

Jayne: "How big a room?"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, November 14, 2003 1:00 PM

Maniac, my God why didn't I see that? YOU'RE SO RIGHT!!

Heh, gonna have to dig out that trilogy and give it a look see again.

Jayne: "How big a room?"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, November 14, 2003 4:47 PM

BLACKSTAR

Quote:
Originally posted by TragicStory:
A. a hover craft is not designed to go that high, at least from what I have seen. However, it would not be that hard to design something that could.

If y'all watch the Animatrix, considered cannon, you will see in the "Second Renaissance" episode that the aircraft used to scorch the sky use hover pads very similar to the ones on the Neb, Logos and other hovercraft, suggesting that the hover pads are capable of flight at such altitudes, but doing so simply isn't practical when the machines control the surface.

Oh, my God! Who's flying this thing? Oh, right, that would be me...

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, November 15, 2003 6:33 PM

And what do you have to go on to support your idea that it's Neo's "inner vision" and not code?

JK

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, November 15, 2003 9:39 PM

SLOWSMURF

Simple, they ripped it off Dune:Messiah, thats why its inner vision, not code.

Note: I'm well aware it was likely taken from somewhere else before Dune.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, November 17, 2003 5:30 AM