Was Superman Returns too vicious and brutal? by chrisisall

Quote:
Originally posted by SimonWho:
But how would you get the Jesus metaphor if it wasn't so brutal?

I got the Jesus thing in the first two, without the Mel Gibson aspect, thank you (sarcasm not directed at you, Simon). Kids see violence all the time; there's no need to make it Taxi Driver realistic, I think. Just a little editing would really help IMHO.

What are we teaching the kids Chrisisall

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Monday, December 4, 2006 8:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Stegasaurus:

When we watched the scene you mentioned at the theater, I asked my wife what that squealing noise was. She said it was Superman. That kind of weirded me out.

Luckily, my hearing is far from super...

Turn it up Chrisisall

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Monday, December 4, 2006 8:10 AM

I think the reason for the brutal beat down wasn't just so that it would seem realistic or draw parallels to Jesus' suffering. The real purpose was to show just how much contempt Lex has for Superman. Sure, there is a lot of lip service throughout the film but most of Lex's comments are clever little quips. Much of what goes on around him during the majority of film paints him in an almost comical fashion. By the time we see the vicious beating laid on supes by Lex and his henchmen it comes as a complete shocker. When I first saw the scene at the theaters I was almost in shock. Who would have ever believed Superman could take such an undignified beating at the hands of mere mortals. There's no comparison between this and what happened at the diner in Superman II.

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We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Monday, December 4, 2006 8:16 AM

REGINAROADIE

If the entire movie was like that, then maybe. But given that it's only one scene, and that they were able to beat up Superman because the continental land mass was laced with Kryptonite, it makes sense. Plus, without Lex beating him this one time, the scenes where Lois, and Richard fly back to save him and then Superman triumphant return where he lifts up the entire land mass and throws it into space would be robbed of their emotional power.

So no I don't think it was too vicious and brutal, because it was a necessary scene in the overall movie, just like the plane sequence, Superman and Lois' flight over Metropolis (the music in that scene makes me a total softie) and that perfect final scene ("The son becomes the father and the father becomes the son.") are in the overall movie.

As you can see, I still consider SUPERMAN RETURNS a $200 million dollar work of art.

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"We have five million Cybermen. How many are you?"
"Four"
You would destroy the Cybermen with four Daleks?"
"We would destroy the Cybermen with ONE Dalek. You are superior in only one respect."
"What is that?"
"You are better at dying."

Trash talk between a Cyberman and a Dalek. It doesn't get any better than that.

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Monday, December 4, 2006 8:27 AM

I didn't think it was too violent, but then I only started reading the comics with "Death of Superman," so I'm used to seeing Supes getting royally pulped.

One thing it drove home to me is how utterly useless Kal-El is without his powers. He really is just a super-powered bully, relying on his strength to get him through --all brute force and no skill.

Batman would've had those thugs crying for their mommies.

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We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Monday, December 4, 2006 8:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cybersnark:

Batman would've had those thugs crying for their mommies.

Holy Chrisisall

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Monday, December 4, 2006 9:10 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cybersnark:
I only started reading the comics with "Death of Superman," so I'm used to seeing Supes getting royally pulped.

In a perfect world we would eventually get to see this story arc played out on the big screen. I also would like to see the follow up story Hunter/Prey. Those were some truly epic fights.

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We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Monday, December 4, 2006 9:19 AM

LITTLEALBATROSS29

It's funny that you bring this up.I jusrtlet my 6 year old see it yesterday.WE told him in advance that Superman gets very hurt by bad guys and he was ok with it,because in the end Superman won. He's not the most mature child usually but he handles movies very well, and hes no fear from what isn't real.I do draw the line at horror movies & he still hasn't watched FF ( except for a part of Heart of Gold ) .
I mean when I was young ,no-one cared what I saw on tv, like the Exorcist when I was 7 - it was the 70's , and I'm fine,I think anyway.

Bryce
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Monday, December 4, 2006 9:20 AM

Especially now that we actually have the technology to do a good Doomsday.

Though it might be better to start with Mongul or Darkseid; similar body types but less "interactive" (Darkseid is at his most terrifying when he's just standing there). It'll get audiences used to seeing massive humanoids before bringing out Mr. Bone-spurs-all-over-the-place.

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We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Monday, December 4, 2006 9:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by LittleAlbatross29:

I mean when I was young ,no-one cared what I saw on tv, like the Exorcist when I was 7 - it was the 70's , and I'm fine,I think anyway.

I snuck into Texas Chainsaw Massacre when I was 10, and I'm surely messed up

.

Seriously, nightmares were never a problem for me, but my son and wife.....

Tougher than a Reaver Chrisisall

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Monday, December 4, 2006 12:16 PM

STORYMARK

That was one of my favorite scenes in the movie, actually.

There is a "Death of Superman / Doomsday" animated film currently in production for DVD release sometime next year. It is apparently set outside of the usual DC animated universe.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, December 4, 2006 2:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
There is a "Death of Superman / Doomsday" animated film currently in production for DVD release sometime next year. It is apparently set outside of the usual DC animated universe.

Ooh, have to look into that.

Wouldn't have to be out of continuity either; Doomsday was last seen in the Phantom Zone. All he needs is someone to get him out.

(Luthor, Brainiac, and Darkseid are the obvious candidates, but they're all gone. I wonder if Zod exists in the Tooniverse. . .)

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We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Tuesday, December 5, 2006 8:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cybersnark:
Doomsday was last seen in the Phantom Zone. All he needs is someone to get him out.

What the?! How did he survive where Waverider took him at the end of Hunter/Prey? As you can tell I haven't been reading comics for a number of years.

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We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Tuesday, December 5, 2006 11:34 AM

Oh, sorry, I was thinking of the DCU tooniverse, where Doomsday was a genetic experiment by Project Cadmus. He's the one in the Phantom Zone.

The comicverse Doomsday's current location is unknown. He was last seen during the Battle of Metropolis in Infinite Crisis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doomsday_%28comics%29

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We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Tuesday, December 5, 2006 11:47 AM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by Cybersnark:
Quote:
Ooh, have to look into that.

Wouldn't have to be out of continuity either; Doomsday was last seen in the Phantom Zone. All he needs is someone to get him out.

(Luthor, Brainiac, and Darkseid are the obvious candidates, but they're all gone. I wonder if Zod exists in the Tooniverse. . .)

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We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

I agree, but it seems that's the way they're doing it nonetheless.

And Luthor is gone in the Tonnverse? Gone, gone? I didn't see Brainiac Attacks yet, but that would be surprising.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, December 5, 2006 2:23 PM

PIRATECAT

I like this Superman film. I am not a superman buff but I am a Batman Guy. Superman I always thought was a boomer gen thing. Now every American boy wears Spidey jammies to be bed just in case in a flash he has to save the world. I am glad you brought this up about age for kids. I was going to run a thread. My parents let me watch 007, Saint, In Like Flint, Matthelm, Gunsmoke, Bonanaza, Cimarron Strip, Alias Smith and Jones, Planet of the Apes, and so on. No Godfather or Exorcist till they came on tv. I just think people are makin kids candy asses anymore. Home and private schools for the toity hoities. Don't forget that little gay helmet ya gotta wear when riden your big wheel. Come on their is a real world mean and cruel let them have heros like Evil Knievel come on. Bruce Lee another great hero the Green Hornet's side kick who was the show. Robin would never take em. This Liberal crap drives me crazy hey I got a notion put prayer in school in its all about the kids. Everthing is so bastardized today. What's up is down what's good is really bad. I think kids who get abused from strangers our usally naieve. Teach kids to be aware not blind. Thats enough lecture. I need to go hug my neighbor's kids now.

I like smacken em.

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Tuesday, December 5, 2006 3:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
And Luthor is gone in the Tonnverse? Gone, gone? I didn't see Brainiac Attacks yet, but that would be surprising.

I'm not sure how Brainiac Attacks fits into the continuity, actually. It may be a flashback or off in its own little world (I've heard that Luthor isn't played by Clancy Brown, and is based more on the movie-verse version, FWIW).

The last ep of Justice League Unlimited had Luthor journeying beyond the Source Wall at the edge of the Universe and recovering the Anti-Life Equation. He handed it over to Darkseid (who had recently been merged with Brainiac, or at least rebuilt as a Brainiac-style cyborg) and they both vanished in a puff of continuity.

He also made a pretty funny quip. After a full season and a half of prison coveralls, drab combat fatigues, and space-suits, Lex's final scene had him inexplicably wearing a very sharp tuxedo.

Quote:
"Sorry I'm late. I had to go get my 'power suit.'"

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We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Wednesday, December 6, 2006 4:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by PirateCat:
In Like Flint,

I don't compete with them Chrisisall

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Wednesday, December 6, 2006 7:57 AM