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Originally posted by CellarDoor:
I didn't like "Stage Fright" as much as "The Target" but I liked the nod of tribute to the Firefly 'verse from the prop department! I dozed off and on through minutes 15-25 or so, but I certainly caught that detail. :) Not sure how to post hidden spoilers yet, so I'll just imply about what I saw for now.

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Originally posted by CellarDoor:

That literal nod/head shake from Echo at the end was also an interesting development. I'm intrigued to see where that goes.

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Originally posted by Stoweaway:

What did you say to yourself when

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Victor got up from the Dollhouse chair?

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That was a "no way!" moment for me. It starts out looking generic and predictable. But Whedon doesn't disappoint on the surprises and developing characters.

I'm convinced. Now I'll be dedicated to Friday night TV for only the second time in my life.

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Check out http://www.americasfunniesttshirts.com for hilarious shirts at a great price.

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Originally posted by CellarDoor:

That literal nod/head shake from Echo at the end was also an interesting development. I'm intrigued to see where that goes.

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Originally posted by ecgordon:
First off I have to ask why is it necessary to black out "spoiler" information concerning an episode that has already aired? If someone has not seen it yet then they shouldn't be reading this thread.

We've been have a pretty heated argument about this subject on my board, and that seems to be the consensus. The only things that should be considered spoilers are things you've heard or read about upcoming episodes, or else mention of some other show entirely. I was spoiled for a lot of events in Buffy and Angel (which I didn't watch until after Firefly) on this and other boards. The spoiler discussion on my board began when someone dropped a huge Angel spoiler concerning Amy Acker in the middle of the Dollhouse thread. My son has yet to watch the final season of Angel and was upset about reading that.

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Originally posted by CellarDoor:
That literal nod/head shake from Echo at the end was also an interesting development. I'm intrigued to see where that goes.

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Originally posted by asarian:
Also, did DeWitt really have to spell it out why Echo actually acted in accordance with the mission parameters?...

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Originally posted by asarian:
Actually, I didn't much care for that nod/shake. I mean, I was taken by surprise, pleasantly, when Echo suddenly did her "Shoulder to the wheel" thingy at the end of last week's episode. But again with the gesture of remembrance?? The second time around it's not subtle any more (and even detracts a bit from the first time). Now, I'm sorry to sound a mite harsh here, but I expected a bit more from Firefly-Joss in this regard.

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Originally posted by ecgordon:
s has to work within the parameters of the network's notes and suggestions. If he doesn't he wouldn't be able to do the show at all.

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I've said this several times over the years concerning other shows, but I guess I have to say it again. I think that the fans are sometimes as harsh on a show as the networks are. Everyone wants a payoff right out of the gate, not enough people have enough patience to let things develop.

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The more you bad mouth the show the fewer people will be inclined to check it out in the coming weeks. The rumors of a premature cancellation will be a self-fulfilling prophecy.

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Originally posted by SergeantX:
You know, I was kind of thinking that too. But, that's how they chose to interpret it. It's possible, perhaps even likely, that Echo recognized her friend from the Dollhouse and was honestly more interested in saving her protecting the diva.

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Originally posted by dreamtrove:
2. Fox exerts no real creative influence. As long as you give them man bites shark, that's all they care about.

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6. Echo and Sierra aren't carrying the roles. This was a very ambitious project, play a different character every week. It imho failed. It's not entirely the girls, it's also the writers. To create a very real character. You should be mourning the death of the character at the end of the ep, but you're not.

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7. The thing with the FBI is still poorly done, so far I'm only convinced that the guy is a moron.

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9. We still don't have a lot of definition for most of the characters, people can't even remember their names.

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ASARIAN
Or "Girl bites shark," rather, as you so astutely observed. :)

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Still, I was kinda hoping FOX is exerting a lot of creative influence, cuz I'm so much more comfortable with dissing them than I am with entertaining the thought that the writers (= Joss) might be the cause.

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I've pretty much given up on Sierra (sorry). Eliza I still believe in. Especially because her first role as professional negotiator was so well done. Echo had undergone a true Verwandlung there: her half-nerdy mannerisms (the way she was counting down with her fingers and such), the tone of her voice, her entire attitude, it was so radically different from the standard Echo, that I was rather impressed. But in "Stage Fright" Eliza acted essentially not much different from the way she did in "The Target." Of course, like you say, to write, and play, a real and different character each time is pretty difficult. And maybe it can't be done, even.

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Effectively, the guy is still acting out his stubborn BSG 'Helo' persona (talk about never really being able to wipe a slate clean!). Though likeable, perhaps, he's very much a walking cliche, too.

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9. We still don't have a lot of definition for most of the characters, people can't even remember their names.

Sad, but true. Now, I like Dr. Saunders, for instance, but still had to pay the wiki a quick visit to recall she's called Claire.

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So, why is that? Good question.

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Both DeWitt and the security dude in his very fine suit are 'Dr. Evil' type characatures, really.

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And Topher

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Boyd

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So, it's basically just Eliza for now. And she can't carry the entire show alone.

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Also, the devil is in the details. Remember how 'all blue' on the brain-scan monitors meant fear? Well, they were on 'all blue' again this ep. No meaning this time; just an oops.

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Like Topher's chess board in the first two episodes. I know, the chess thingy is a bit of a recurring pet peeve of mine (they really botched that in TSCC too), but they had set up absurd positions (pawns on row 1 or 8, for example).

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Well, at least someone woke up someone about that, as they straightened it out this ep. Only the other day I read someone found a possible continuation error in Firefly, after all these years!

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I mean, it's obvious Dollhouse has not been given the same amount of consideration, detail wise. What that means, you tell me; but it can't be for the better.

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Mei-mei

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ECGORDON
The main point I was trying to make is that we should have patience enough to get past these first few episodes where we know FOX exerted their influence in order to get to the ones that show more of Joss' original intentions for the show.

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Since all thirteen (or maybe just twelve?) episodes have been filmed

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Originally posted by dreamtrove:
On one side, Quantum Leap is social commentary with no strings attached, no need to revisit the idea later, but in its core I think it's lifestyle tourism. Here's an hour in the life of a lifestyle set.

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Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Eliza lost me on the negotiator. It was the amount of makeover that was require, the glasses, contrived. This is standard hollywood cover for an actor who can't make the radical shift needed to carry the role. When no makeup or wardrobe is used to show a change of character, and it's completely believable, you never even pause, that's first class talent. That's Summer as Cameron, or River.

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Playing the staff of dollhouse? That doesn't require a lot of talent. Amy is just imho a flat out better actress, and she's in a role that really doesn't require it. I think he had trouble getting her.

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Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
As this is Joss I will absolutely give it my full attention but I must admit I am severely missing Joss' sense of humour which I now realise has been the main reason why I find his shows so engaging. Without that element Dollhouse is proving less accessible than I would have thought.

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Originally posted by dreamtrove:
You came up with DeWitt, good call, who the hell is DeWitt? If anyone is coming up as "security dude" after three eps it's an issue.

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Sweet! I didn't catch that. I like the more subtle chess set ups that could never arise, these can be clever, because they're hard to construct. More commonly, the random chess setup is just in a position where someone is in check, or pawn takes queen and white wins the game, and this is supposed to be some major chess match that goes on for days. Pawns in rows 1 and 8 are precious.

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Well, at least someone woke up someone about that, as they straightened it out this ep. Only the other day I read someone found a possible continuation error in Firefly, after all these years!

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Oh, do tell.

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DeWitt is Adelle, the woman who interviewed Echo at the start of the first episode, a sort of James Bond's 'M' wannabe (who thinks slapping on a British accent makes hers a good role).

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Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
The Dollhouse is proving to be a curiosity for me. I'm finding the 'missions' that Echo is being sent on as totally redundant. Is anyone else feeling this?
I'm curious as to why the show isn't actually dealing with the characters within the Dollhouse? I mean Amy Acker has been looking like a sour puss for three episodes now and no one seems bothered. I find this strange and disjointed.

This last episode was maybe the most difficult to watch and yet strangely, gave me the best sense of urgency about the episode to come...and it lasted two seconds at the finalé! Curious how Joss&Co can do that to me....

So far Boyd is excellent and entirely holding the premise together. I also like the cute next door neighbour to the FBI agent who I think is more than she seems (at least I hope she is more than she seems) Otherwise I'm not relating to anyone.

As this is Joss I will absolutely give it my full attention but I must admit I am severely missing Joss' sense of humour which I now realise has been the main reason why I find his shows so engaging. Without that element Dollhouse is proving less accessible than I would have thought.

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Originally posted by asarian:
That's what networks are for: to get in a man's way.

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Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
I'm finding the 'missions' that Echo is being sent on as totally redundant. Is anyone else feeling this?

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I also thought the humor was there. The whole plot was set up to diss American Idol, making the whole episode a joke, but not in a bad way.

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I guess my biggest dissapointment was that Echo was actually imprinted with Faith the vampire slayer in this episode!

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I think I get where you're coming from. My take on this is that he's setting us up by lobbing a few at us. He's getting us comfortable, or uncomfortable, with where he's taken us so far.
Some of the assignments are rather boring and mundane (almost), but nothing is ever mundane with Joss (except for what's on the surface) and it is only later that he will reveal something to us that, at first, seemed to be nothing at all.

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I think that it is doing just that. In The target we find out how the good Dr. got her scars. We also find out about Boyd and we get some animosity from the chief security guy.

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Do you think that keeping the DH is high priority for DeWitt? Of course it is. So here's my theory on that: We know Victor has been assigned to him, but I think that there's another and it's the girl in 3B? That's strictly a wild guess, but it makes sense to me.

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You're right about Boyd. I think Harry Lennix is excellent in this role.

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Way I figure this, is that all these missions ARE, in fact, if not redundant, then certainly secondary to a main thread that's being spun: how the blank slate is gradually being filled up with echoes of earlier assignments, and how that affects the Dolls. It's actually quite a common theme in the world of robotics, A.I., psychology, etc., to explore what happens when -- and especially why -- someone/something grows and behaves beyond the programmed parameters.

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So, if I'm right, then maybe indeed more patience is required, as it simply takes time, like when adding literal pieces to a puzzle, ere you begin to see the outline of the full picture.

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Olivia Williams is British. She didn't have to slap on that accent.

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Originally posted by SergeantX:

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Originally posted by asarian:
Also, did DeWitt really have to spell it out why Echo actually acted in accordance with the mission parameters?...

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You know, I was kind of thinking that too. But, that's how they chose to interpret it. It's possible, perhaps even likely, that Echo recognized her friend from the Dollhouse and was honestly more interested in saving her protecting the diva.

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CellarDoor:
And I've come up with a theory about the cheesy plot points, they are so we will look beyond the standalone nature of the engagements and focus on the story arc about the actives and the Dollhouse itself.

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Sergeant X:
They either need to ramp up the stuff about Echo's backstory and the mystery of Alpha, or make the "engagements" considerably more interesting. So far they've just been warmed over CSI.
SergeantX

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Originally posted by asarian:
what's with Victor also asking whether he fell asleep? That gets a mite fake/forced

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Originally posted by PhoenixRose:

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Originally posted by asarian:
what's with Victor also asking whether he fell asleep? That gets a mite fake/forced

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Much like thinking they need a 'treatment,' the falling asleep thing seems to be part of a deep-set programing. Echo asks every time; I would expect all of them to. The thing that bothered me was Victor still having the Russian accent of his previous personality. Can the actor not do any other accents? If so, I'm sorry, but what is he doing there? Is his sole purpose to be this Russian mafia kind of guy? He never has any other assignments for the duration of the show? If he does, can he only be on assignments that require a Russian? I dunno, that seemed odd to me. I expected all the 'blank slates' to have that flat, almost expressionless voice, any identifying characteristics wiped away. Echo doesn't sound like she's from Boston, Victor shouldn't sound like he's from Russia. IMO

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Originally posted by Bytemite:
maybe it's dangerous to touch the HOW they talk part of that.

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