Dollhouse: True Believer - Echo is blinded by a religious cause. Post comments here. by Haken

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Dollhouse: True Believer - Echo is blinded by a religious cause. Post comments here.

POSTED BY: HAKEN
UPDATED: Friday, March 20, 2009 16:22
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VIEWED: 7377
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Friday, March 13, 2009 2:25 PM

Likes to mess with stuffs.

Dollhouse 105: True Believer - Echo is blinded by a religious cause.

Am I funny or what?

Let's hope tonight's episode does better in the ratings.

Post your comments after watching it.

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Friday, March 13, 2009 4:32 PM

GORRAMITGIRL

I really enjoyed this week's episode. I thought the way that Echo was engaged was extremely interesting and I loved how it went wrong, as everything seems to do with Echo.

Topher and Boyd continue to be my favorite characters. Tophers line of "Or worse, a sneeziure." was hilarious. I also love the interaction between Topher and Dr. Saunders. I find the Dollhouse very intriguing and I can't wait to see what's going to happen with Victor and Sierra.

-GG

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Friday, March 13, 2009 5:24 PM

AGLAIA

I thought it was good - some inconsistencies, but I do like this series and am willing to stick around for it. I have to say, though, that the Friday night slot is really hard, and is going to be harder once Galactica is over, since now I have two reasons not to go out - and I have been foregoing the out-going because of both of these shows.

But I like the way it's beginning to unfold, and unravel, and I'm going to have to get technological pretty quick so I can have 3 hours in 2...

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Friday, March 13, 2009 5:24 PM

DAVESHAYNE

Best was Topher and Fred (can't think of her actual character's name in this show. Does that make me a bad person?) "Man Reaction" is just such a flat out classically stupid euphemism it's absolutely brilliant.

David

'Geeks can't admit that anything worthwhile was invented before 1981. Soon, "making cocoa" will be called "milk hacking."' - Lore Sjoberg

http://xkcd.com/386/

"Don't worry. Captain Hammer will save us." - Penny.

I has myspace - http://www.myspace.com/daveshayneforpresident

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Friday, March 13, 2009 5:50 PM

CELLARDOOR

Bah, I missed it due to showing my family more (new to them) Firefly episodes tonight, but I'll catch it On Demand ASAP! Sounds like a great show this week. I'm getting to where I'm looking forward to Friday nights for this reason... uh oh.

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Friday, March 13, 2009 6:22 PM

THATWEIRDGIRL

Topher isn't working for me. The character I like, but the actor doesn't quite fit. It feels like a Tom Lenk homage. I think it would be nice if he played against that image instead of reminding me that he isn't Tom, heh.

Other than that, the show is getting better and better.

---
Sometimes I lie awake at night, and I ask, "Where have I gone wrong?" Then a voice says to me, "This is going to take more than one night."
-- Charlie Brown
www.thatcostumegirl.com
www.thatweirdgirl.com

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Saturday, March 14, 2009 8:15 AM

GILOVE2DANCE

I totally geeked out when the word "serenity" was said at the very beginning.

Victor likes Ciara!! "Man reaction" Brilliant...I was laughing so damn hard.

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Saturday, March 14, 2009 10:14 AM

CELLARDOOR

I totally geeked out upon hearing the word Serenity as well, glad I'm not the only one.

Tee hee!

The Mal-reminiscent "Did I mention I got shot?" (I'm paraphrasing) line from Ballard was great too. :)

I'm usually kinda leery of fictional portrayals of religion (even cultish ones) on TV since they can stereotype so easily, and I'm not excited with every implication here, but this was relatively reasonable compared to some other portrayals of religion I've seen. Character development continued, and I'm looking forward to next week, big time!

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Saturday, March 14, 2009 8:01 PM

REGINAROADIE

I loved how in the opening scene, the cult is singing the same song that Robert Mitchum sings as he's hunting down the children in NIGHT OF THE HUNTER.

As cool as FIREFLY references are, referencing one of the best thriller/cult movies ever made gets me even more excited.

I'm really looking forward to next weeks episode with Patton Oswalt. When I first heard about the show, this was the one episode I was hoping they'd do.

**************************************************
"And it starts with a sentence that might last a lifetime, or it all might just go down in flames. If I let you know me, then why would you want me? Each day I don't is a shame. Each day I don't is a great shame."

Loudon Wainwright III - "Strange Weirdos" off the "Knocked Up" soundtrack

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Sunday, March 15, 2009 6:07 AM

PACHELBEL

Best episode so far. However, that's not saying much. In addition, I thought the ep really fell apart at the end, once the agent showed up to the burned out compound.

Also, I have no idea why

Select to view spoiler:

Dominic knocked out Echo. It appeared Jonas was going to kill her or at least shoot her anyway and both Echo and Jonas would die in the fire. Why bother getting involved further? Obviously, all Dominic did was piss of Echo.

The next episode may be make or break. Joss says he kicked ass, and Fox is pushing that based on the promo. An episode we'll never forget? Or will Dollhouse need an exit strategy? We'll see.

Finally, nice to see some Drive alum. Jonas was the guy who had his flash drive stolen, and the ATF agent-in-charge was the cut man Tulley took the young brother to for mending after the brother was shot during the bank robbery.

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Sunday, March 15, 2009 1:17 PM

ASARIAN

'Tweren't half bad, really. The religious group? Perhaps a mite too stereotypical for my taste. And the girl with her time machine, who came zapping in from the fifties with her big lasagne, or whatever that was, to offer 'left-overs' to Ballard, it was cute the first time; the second time, not so much: it's one thing to claim to have left-overs while standing in your doorway; quite another to bring them along to the Police station. And blind people (unless extremely well trained) tend to roll their eyes in 'wierd' directions, not like seeing people do.

Other than that, Eliza really can act, she's proving that time and again. It was overall cleverly made. Topher isn't exactly doing it for me, either. Dr. Saunders all the more, though.

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Sunday, March 15, 2009 4:50 PM

DREAMTROVE

Haken, you have your answer on which site would generate more responses. I think you should probably do something to save this site. Page Rank is falling, use some good old SEO optimizaton.

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Sunday, March 15, 2009 8:13 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

I feel more and more like we're getting past the fat and onto the meat of the plot. Also, I liked this episode in its own right. I thought Eliza played being blind fairly well. Her eyes were unfocused and her eyelids slightly lopsided. No, she didn't roll her eyes in weird directions, but the imprint could see til she was nine, so she wouldn't have been completely disconnected from her eyes the way someone might if they were blind from birth. I've only known a few truly blind people, though, so I have minimal comparison basis.
I remember wondering at one point if the open showers ever presented any control problems. Look like they can when it comes to Sierra

[/sig]

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Monday, March 16, 2009 6:50 AM

DMI

Expired, forgotten, spoiled rotten.

In my opinion this was definitely the best episode yet. There wasn't excessive violence or any senseless motorcycle chases. They developed the three plots nicely with a god bit of humor coming from the "man reaction" subplot and even in the ongoing FBI plot. I feel like the show is finally hitting its stride and upon second viewing I figured out why. "Written by Tim Minear." Is this the first script penned by him? If so, let the man write more!
-e

A blog on the struggles of an unpublished writer: http://www.blogiversity.org/blogs/dmi/default.aspx

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Monday, March 16, 2009 7:25 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by thatweirdgirl:
Topher isn't working for me. The character I like, but the actor doesn't quite fit. It feels like a Tom Lenk homage. I think it would be nice if he played against that image instead of reminding me that he isn't Tom, heh.

Other than that, the show is getting better and better.

---
Sometimes I lie awake at night, and I ask, "Where have I gone wrong?" Then a voice says to me, "This is going to take more than one night."
-- Charlie Brown
www.thatcostumegirl.com
www.thatweirdgirl.com]

Or even a washed-out version of Wash...

But my first reaction when I saw and heard Topher in the pilot episode was, "Oh, look - there's this show's version of Andrew!" And of course, Echo's handler really seems to be based on The Operative -it's like they wrote it for Chewitol, but then couldn't get him for the role.

I'm just sayin'...

Mike

The "On Fire" Economy -
The Dow closed at 10,587.60 on January 20, 2001, the day GW Bush took office. Eight years later, it closed below 8000 on the day he left office - a net loss of 25%. That's what conservatives call an economic "success".

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Monday, March 16, 2009 4:06 PM

ASARIAN

Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:
The religious group? Perhaps a mite too stereotypical for my taste.

ATF guy bugs me too, to be honest. What's the deal with him wanting to kill Boyd? Sure, what the guy did was illegal, staging some evidence to get a minimal warrant based on probable cause. But murder-worthy? Doesn't that strike anyone as a bit odd? After all, Boyd weren't even out to 'get' him: it was just a simple "I'll scratch your back, you'll sratch mine" situation. Boyd just wanted to get his 'man' out. No big deal. Certainly nothing to go 'Psycho Sheriff' over. Besides, it's all manner of stupid to want to kill Boyd: he doesn't really know who Boyd is (read: what creepoid Agency he might be associated with), or how well up connected he is. That alone should prevent him from making hasty decisions. But, worse, shouldn't he be a mite worried about the video tape from the store that Boyd showed him a still of?

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Tuesday, March 17, 2009 4:57 AM

THATWEIRDGIRL

I got the impression the ATF guy was never going to forgive Jonas for his earlier transgressions against children. It was children, wasn't it?

Dominic knocked out Echo so she couldn't escape. She was ready to escape before he entered the fire. Her main tormentor was down and she was free to go. Dominic is trying to protect the agency...even if it means going against Adelle. His priority is to keep it below the radar.

---
Sometimes I lie awake at night, and I ask, "Where have I gone wrong?" Then a voice says to me, "This is going to take more than one night."
-- Charlie Brown
www.thatcostumegirl.com
www.thatweirdgirl.com

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Tuesday, March 17, 2009 5:15 AM

ASARIAN

Quote:
Originally posted by thatweirdgirl:
I got the impression the ATF guy was never going to forgive Jonas for his earlier transgressions against children. It was children, wasn't it?

Yes. "Underaged girls" I believe was the term he used. What that shows to me, though, is that he had probable cause not to like Jonas (which made his minor act of lending fate a hand a little, so to speak, all the more understandable). I still don't get why he had to try and kill Boyd for that -- the more, like I said, because all Boyd really wanted was a chance of getting Echo out. It seems, story-writing wise, that in the overall atmosphere of Waco madness some of that wackiness (accidentally?) rubbed off on the ATF guy.

Quote:

Dominic knocked out Echo so she couldn't escape. She was ready to escape before he entered the fire. Her main tormentor was down and she was free to go. Dominic is trying to protect the agency...even if it means going against Adelle. His priority is to keep it below the radar.

Laurence always wants to have Echo sent to the attic, too. So, yes, I'd say he sees her as a liability.

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Tuesday, March 17, 2009 4:51 PM

PACHELBEL

Quote:
Originally posted by thatweirdgirl:
I got the impression the ATF guy was never going to forgive Jonas for his earlier transgressions against children. It was children, wasn't it?

Dominic knocked out Echo so she couldn't escape. She was ready to escape before he entered the fire. Her main tormentor was down and she was free to go. Dominic is trying to protect the agency...even if it means going against Adelle. His priority is to keep it below the radar.

---
Sometimes I lie awake at night, and I ask, "Where have I gone wrong?" Then a voice says to me, "This is going to take more than one night."
-- Charlie Brown
www.thatcostumegirl.com
www.thatweirdgirl.com

I remember it differently. Jonas was holding a gun on Echo when Dominic came in and shot Jonas, then knocked out Echo. It seemed pretty clear that neither Echo nor Jonas were going to escape without any additional help from Dominic. I saw no point for his actions except to show, once again at the end of every episode, that Echo is retaining bits of memory.

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Wednesday, March 18, 2009 4:57 AM

CLJOHNSTON108

Okay, am I the only one who finds a drill press with a 4mm bit (aimed dead center at the lens) a somewhat inelegant instrument for eye surgery?

I was amazed that Jonas didn't spot the gaping hole this would leave when he was shining the light in her eyes!

(See, I'm inordinately sensitive about my eyes, so I don't like seeing eyeballs getting poked/plucked/punctured or eyelids getting sewn shut (like in Diving Bell & the Butterfly))

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Wednesday, March 18, 2009 10:28 AM

WHISPER

Yeah I found that to be a strange choice as well. I wouldn't call that a bit though, but a 1/8" threaded orthopedic pin. Something one would use to surgically stabilize a fracture. Definitely not a delicate instrument!

http://whispergraphics.deviantart.com
http://www.myspace.com/vet_techtiff

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Wednesday, March 18, 2009 1:59 PM

REGINAROADIE

I was thinking more along the lines of "OMG THEY'RE DRILLING INTO AN EYEBALL!!!" I share your cringiness involving eyes. At least in A CLOCKWORK ORANGE they gave him eyedrops. But this and STAR TREK: FIRST CONTACT just freaks me out.

**************************************************
"And it starts with a sentence that might last a lifetime, or it all might just go down in flames. If I let you know me, then why would you want me? Each day I don't is a shame. Each day I don't is a great shame."

Loudon Wainwright III - "Strange Weirdos" off the "Knocked Up" soundtrack

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Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:38 PM

SHINYGOODGUY

Dominic knocked out Echo so she couldn't escape. She was ready to escape before he entered the fire. Her main tormentor was down and she was free to go. Dominic is trying to protect the agency...even if it means going against Adelle. His priority is to keep it below the radar.
-----------------------------------------

Here's a theory that I have about Mr. Dominic: he's trying to get rid of our girl by her having an "accident" or putting her in the "attic." Why?
Because he has something to hide. My guess is that he had something to do with what happened to Alpha.
There's gonna be some asswhuppin' in his future. Just a guess.
-------------------------------------------

Normally I don't go around blowing my own horn, but in this case I'll make an exception. About a month ago I told y'all to have patience that the show would get better in the weeks to come.

Gorramit, feels good to be right (insert gloat here). The Reese's pieces are getting more and more interesting, aren't they? This ep had the Whedon/Minnear humor, clues and awesomeness.
Eliza wasn't half bad as the 'blind' girl, Dr. S and Topher funny (who knew?) - "Man reaction" LOL.
-------------------------------------------
Joss and company keep adding ingredients and interesting spices to this bubbling pot; and the main course is yet to come (sorry, been watching the Food Channel a lot lately). Dollhouse is starting to rock.
--------------------------------------------

Patience my fellow travelers, patience (he said gleefully as he strutted like a gorram peacock). I...can't...stop!

It's 3:30 in the morning, I've had 3 hours sleep in the last 18 hours, and I have about 3 hours left before we sleep. Now I know how River felt in the Academy.

The groggyandpunchySGGisall

Tawabawho?

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Thursday, March 19, 2009 6:21 PM

PACHELBEL

Quote:
Originally posted by Shinygoodguy:
Dominic knocked out Echo so she couldn't escape. She was ready to escape before he entered the fire. Her main tormentor was down and she was free to go. Dominic is trying to protect the agency...even if it means going against Adelle. His priority is to keep it below the radar.
-----------------------------------------

Here's a theory that I have about Mr. Dominic: he's trying to get rid of our girl by her having an "accident" or putting her in the "attic." Why?
Because he has something to hide. My guess is that he had something to do with what happened to Alpha.
There's gonna be some asswhuppin' in his future. Just a guess.
-------------------------------------------

Normally I don't go around blowing my own horn, but in this case I'll make an exception. About a month ago I told y'all to have patience that the show would get better in the weeks to come.

Gorramit, feels good to be right (insert gloat here). The Reese's pieces are getting more and more interesting, aren't they? This ep had the Whedon/Minnear humor, clues and awesomeness.
Eliza wasn't half bad as the 'blind' girl, Dr. S and Topher funny (who knew?) - "Man reaction" LOL.
-------------------------------------------
Joss and company keep adding ingredients and interesting spices to this bubbling pot; and the main course is yet to come (sorry, been watching the Food Channel a lot lately). Dollhouse is starting to rock.
--------------------------------------------

Patience my fellow travelers, patience (he said gleefully as he strutted like a gorram peacock). I...can't...stop!

It's 3:30 in the morning, I've had 3 hours sleep in the last 18 hours, and I have about 3 hours left before we sleep. Now I know how River felt in the Academy.

The groggyandpunchySGGisall

Tawabawho?

Then he could of just stood there and watched Jonas shoot her. That would have been a pretty good accident.

Maybe I saw a different version then everyone else, but in mine, Jonas was standing holding a gun on Echo when Dominic entered the room. Had Jonas been laying on the floor he wouldn't have gotten shot!

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Friday, March 20, 2009 3:50 AM

ASARIAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Shinygoodguy:

Gorramit, feels good to be right (insert gloat here). The Reese's pieces are getting more and more interesting, aren't they? This ep had the Whedon/Minnear humor, clues and awesomeness.
Eliza wasn't half bad as the 'blind' girl, Dr. S and Topher funny (who knew?) - "Man reaction" LOL.

Gonna be a bit negative; so, if that's not your bag, feel free to move on. :)

'Tweren't bad, honestly. 'Tweren't all that good, either. Sorry. Overall, it's just too riddled with holes (and I don't mean just Echo's eye). But yes, the eye-drilling was, if not an immediate plot-hole, then certainly totally off. The ATF guy wanting to kill Boyd don't make no sense, either (see earlier posts). Not to mention that none of the ATF crew seems even remotely surprised that there's someone inside the compound with, apparently, a camera in her eye!! They're all just looking at the laptop screen as if it were the most normal thing in the world. So much for not giving away your hush-hush (technical) Dollhouse secrets!

Also, seeing it back, the whole religious sect, Jonas, his followers, it was really a series of cliches strung together (actually annoyed me more the second time around).

The "man reaction" was fun. You could tell the hand of Minear was in it. :) But is it really plausible for Topher to, well, basically react like a nervous twelve-year-old, around anything sexual? This is a guy who programs Dolls (for sex, most of the time, really; though Adelle would probably see it differently). Whatever the case may be, point being that Topher should be very comfortable by now talking about these matters. Okay, maybe not around Dr. Saunders, you say? Well, it stands to reason he would talk with her, especially with her, about these matters, as she's the Dollhouse's main Doctor, and would 'normally' be involved with all medical aspects of the programming, no? Which makes it all the more strange that Topher says they never read her reports: bloody unlikely.

All these things make the show less than stellar. Ep. 6 better *really* rock.

To end on a positive note, I'm liking Amy Acker (Dr. Saunders) more and more. She's really an outstanding actress.

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Friday, March 20, 2009 5:41 AM

RHYIANAN

Quote:
Originally posted by reginaroadie:
I was thinking more along the lines of "OMG THEY'RE DRILLING INTO AN EYEBALL!!!" I share your cringiness involving eyes. At least in A CLOCKWORK ORANGE they gave him eyedrops.

Hmm, I get so freaked out about eyes that I had to leave the room until the "surgery" was over, so I totally missed the drill, but if that's what happened, I'm surprised there wasn't a greater outcry against it.

All in all, I thought that Eliza played a fairly realistic blind girl, and I had been wondering about the showers and whether something like that would happen and how they would react if it did.

However, the reaction of the cult leader to Echo's speech about the vision she had of him didn't seem true to me. He tested her to make sure she was blind and asked her perfunctory questions about being an agent and asked who sent her, but IMO he should have been much more suspicious than he was. After proving that she was blind and hearing her sincerity, he seemed to accept her until things started to go wrong. He knew the cult stuff was a bunch of crap when he first started it, so taking her vision at face value without asking more in depth questions makes no sense unless he had started to believe his own BS. Maybe I've got a different take on things than intended, but I saw the congregation as the believers and he was just exploiting them. If the intention was that he really believed himself to be a religious leader, and he wasn't just snowing everyone else, it could have been done much more believably.

I'm a leaf on the wind

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Friday, March 20, 2009 7:20 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST

The Dollhouse... Hmmm.

It is improving every week, but I honestly belive it's on its way out. I'm sad to report that friends of mine are just not sticking with it, and if I'm honest I'm only doing so out of loyalty to Joss. Fact is it shouldn't be a show just for exsisting Joss fans, it should be generating new ones. In my small microcosm of friends, I'm the last of the bunch to keep watching. My best buds girlfriend is just not interested anymore after just two episodes and my other friends couldn't get their respective partners to even sit through the first episode! They themselves persisted for one or two episodes more and then gave up... What really saddens me is that most of these friends loved Firefly and Serenity. So their distaste for The Dollhouse is alarming.

The biggest factor that crops up with everyone when I ask them what's wrong is that they don't like the acting. Not just Eliza but everyone save for Boyd. Boyd pretty much gets the thumbs up. The other regulars though... Nope, and really this is a hard one to defend.

However when all this is said and done I think the general concensus over the Dollhouse is that even if you overlook the poor acting and you allow for the development needing to take time the simple fact is, is that nobody cares about the story, however it's presented.

So I'm a little worried as I will be the only one in a group of about twelve who will continue with The Dollhouse. Some may carry on watching if I give back favourable reports but that's not a guarantee...

I really hope Joss has something grand in the pipeline.

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Friday, March 20, 2009 9:18 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
it should be generating new ones

Well, as to that... My mother, who I could never convince to watch Firefly, Buffy, or Angel, and who really doesn't watch that much TV at all, watches Dollhouse devotedly every week. I do as well, based at least partly on its own merit. I was starting to lose patience with it, but I feel it got better, and I'm starting to really get into it. My bf, not as patient as I am, stopped watching after 'Stage Fright' and I'm trying to convince him to give it another go. I'm sure it's going to pick up even more than it has, and maybe then I'll be able to convince him.
I do take heart from the fact that ratings have gone up, even higher than they were for the pilot. I'm sure they'll be lower this week, for the sole reason of the BSG finale, but I don't think as many people have given up on it as seems to be your impression

[/sig]

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Friday, March 20, 2009 4:22 PM

SHINYGOODGUY

asarian...I don't look at it so much as negative but more like one person's POV, plus I'm an adult semi-muscular man - I can take it.
-------------------------------------------

First, I had my tongue firmly placed in cheek in making those comments. That is to say that I enjoyed the ep and built up the hype with the mind of having a few laughs. Of course this, and other eps, have flaws but overall it was semi-solid.

Echo's Eye: The drill bit (no pun intended) was somewhat HI-larious. Think about it: Joss, dark humor, the overkill (drill bit to the eye). Who, indeed, operates on an eye with garage tools. Well maybe the guy from the movie SAW, I'll give you that one.

DH Secrets: I don't recall Boyd telling the ATF agents anything about the camera being in her eye. At one point when Jonas was checking her out in the dark room, the ATF agent on the laptop seemed surprised by the darkness and the shining light. Boyd seemed worried that it was happening. He said she was just a girl.

Give me that Old Time Religion: Okay, the religious sect WAS cliched and hackneyed. Someone mentioned that the song they were singing was from a Robert Mitchum film from the 50's. So you do have a point there.

Nervous Nelly: When it comes to Topher what we need to remember is that this guy is a boy genius (with emphasis on the boy) and may not have lost his cherry. He IS uncomfortable with sex. Probably part of the reason why he took the job. He said to the doctor that they are not supposed to react to one another sexually in their "Doll" state. Oh, it makes him quite nervous to even say he was "looking". The doctor on the other hand is quite used to looking at naked bodies.

The Minority Report: Who reads Financial Annual Reports? Medical journals? Baseball Digests? In my job the joke is similar. Dozens of reports are compiled within the business to share and discuss among the staff in order to better advised the client. These are generally hundreds of pages. They only read what is absolutely necessary for their purposes. It could happen!

Okay, it wasn't an earth-shattering ep. The earth didn't move and the skies didn't open to reveal the perfect alignment of the planets, but it was a decent ep deserving of further consideration. Was I thrilled and overcome with emotion as with OoG, or OiS, or BW. In a word, No. But Joss & Co. are headed in the right direction.

SGG

Tawabawho?

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