The Star Trek films discussion thread by OPPYH

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The Star Trek films discussion thread

POSTED BY: OPPYH
UPDATED: Wednesday, January 5, 2011 20:09
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Tuesday, January 4, 2011 7:30 AM

I'll start this off with once my most hated Trek film(although I never really hated it). Nemesis.
The thing that bothered me about it most was:
a) Weak villain
b) Data dying.

The weak villain thing can be overlooked, as it has been done many times before. A young Picard clone that is evil.
Data dying ruined my initial viewing of the movie. I knew another TNG movie wasn't going to be made, so why leave on such a sad note? Data is, and always will be my favorite Trek character. Unlike Spock, he has the ability to show emotion(emotion chip), and his natural curiosity is always refreshing. He is also The root of what Star Trek is. Highly advanced scientific technology, on a path of discovery.

Watching Nemesis last night, I realized I missed the main theme first time round. Family. From Riker, and Troi getting married, to Picard and his clone offspring, and B-4 Data's "brother". Add to that some very cool Romulan storyline, and you have a decent film. I liked it much, much better the second time around.

Also the deleted scenes were amazing. I want to see the adventures of new captain Riker, Troi, and Wesley Crusher(engineering) on board the Titan.

Well, being that this is one of the despised films in the series what are your thoughts?

EDIT: the score from Jerry Goldsmith is a thing of beauty.

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Tuesday, January 4, 2011 7:48 AM

WISHIMAY

I GOT the theme the first time. I still strenuously dislike Nemesis. The whole movie just made me ...uncomfortable.

It's not in me to hate it.

I've actually grown kinda fond of the Trek re-load. I've decided I like Chris Pine...Took me a while, though...

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Tuesday, January 4, 2011 8:33 AM

STORYMARK

I hate Nemesis with great passion. Mainly due to the horrid writing, terrible plot and lazy direction.

But to be fair, they didn't make it knowing it would be the last. It was greatly due to the failure of this installment that TNG movies ended and the reboot was decided upon.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, January 4, 2011 8:36 AM

JONGSSTRAW

At the wedding when Data says "invited transgendered species" I knew both he and Star Trek had reached a point where they had to go away. I spent like $30 bucks for 2 tickets and snacks for this movie, and then I get "invited transgendered species!?" Is this Star Trek or Oprah?

But actually I did like the movie. I thought there was some great interplay between Picard and Shinzon. I also liked the glimpses of Romulus and Remus that they showed, and I liked the political intrigue of the Romulan military and high council.

The Romulan "predator" ship was pretty impressive, as was the new weapon Shinzon used. The "violation" of Troi that Shinzon mentally launched didn't make a whole lotta sense to me, since he could have had any Romulan female he wanted. Why the big-time hots for Troi? And with that mental projection process, would he have actually felt anything anyhow?

Data was great in the series finale All Good Things, and he also stood out in one of my favorites....Time's Arrow, when he met Mark Twain, Jack London, and a young pre-Trek Guinan. Data was good in all the movies, and they chose to stop making movies with this crew at the right time. They can all be proud of their body of work.

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Tuesday, January 4, 2011 10:54 AM

CYBERSNARK

Clearly, I remain the only real fan of Nemesis. The scene between holo-Shinzon and Picard cut to the core of what Star Trek has always been about; are we simply the result of the world that formed us, or do we have the capability to make a difference --to build a better future than the world we live in?

And really, one of the main themes of the movie was change; no matter how much we may want to hang on to something, we all must move forward. Worf acknowledges that the Romulans acted with honour (putting aside the grudge he's held since he was a child), Picard comes face-to-face with the potential end of his bloodline (touching a plot thread set up in Generations), Riker and Troi finally get married (after Insurrection renewed their relationship), and leave the Enterprise --forcing Picard to put together a new bridge crew (plus, it turns out Data was technically doing three different jobs [second officer, head of the sciences department, and operations chief], so he needs to bring in three more new people). The Romulan Empire collapses into civil war (Shinzon killed the Senate, then died with no clear chain of succession, leaving a power vacuum).

Really, Nemesis had the biggest scale since First Contact (and that barely counts, since the whole point of FC was restoring the status-quo). After Nemesis, nothing is the same --yet we must continue. Not the end of a journey, but the beginning of a new one.

Quote:
Originally posted by OPPYH:
I want to see the adventures of new captain Riker, Troi, and Wesley Crusher(engineering) on board the Titan.

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Tuesday, January 4, 2011 10:56 AM

STORYMARK

Oh, it had the themes down, and some good ideas. It was just the execution and, well, pretty much everything else that sucked.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, January 4, 2011 4:05 PM

CHRISISALL

I just didn't care for it past the first ten excellent minutes.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, January 5, 2011 7:12 AM

OPPYH

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Oh, it had the themes down, and some good ideas. It was just the execution and, well, pretty much everything else that sucked.

It was a more coherent, and solid story than the Abrams reboot. Vulcan wiped out by a Romulan day laborer? It was entertaining, but it was pretty far from thought provoking Trek stories that we have grown to love. Roberto Orci is a less than average writer. He was just friends with the right people to get to where he is. His inflated ego proves he is nothing more than a fanboy that got lucky. With the sequel due in 2012, there is going to be some high expectations now that the infernal "origin story" is finished.

Nemesis was a better Trek movie. I see now that John Logan is unfairly shunned in the Trek community when all he did was write an entertaining star Trek movie. Besides we know B-4 is going to eventually become Data, so where is the harm?

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Wednesday, January 5, 2011 8:33 AM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by OPPYH:
Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Oh, it had the themes down, and some good ideas. It was just the execution and, well, pretty much everything else that sucked.

It was a more coherent, and solid story than the Abrams reboot. Vulcan wiped out by a Romulan day laborer? It was entertaining, but it was pretty far from thought provoking Trek stories that we have grown to love. Roberto Orci is a less than average writer. He was just friends with the right people to get to where he is. His inflated ego proves he is nothing more than a fanboy that got lucky. With the sequel due in 2012, there is going to be some high expectations now that the infernal "origin story" is finished.

Nemesis was a better Trek movie. I see now that John Logan is unfairly shunned in the Trek community when all he did was write an entertaining star Trek movie. Besides we know B-4 is going to eventually become Data, so where is the harm?

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I would say the writing between the two was about equal - both being filled with holes. But the reboot actually had fun sequences, which Nemesis lacked. And Abrams is a far better director than Baird.

I think the reboot is a far better film overall (and general consensus would agree, as Nemesis is one of the least successful or liked of the series, and the reboot is by far the most successful - even in adjusted dollars). Logan gets treated fairly, for writing a crappy, unoriginal and dull Trek film.

Sure, the reboot has some plot holes, but it's fun, moves well, and most importantly, gets the characters right. Nemesis is just as loaded with plot holes as the reboot (not to mention a huge number of silly conveniences - always a bad sign in a script), except it often gets the characters wrong (which is sad given that it had the original actors in the roles, an advantage the reboot didn't have), the pacing is sluggish with pointless scenes - and it's a blatant and shameless rehash of Wrath of Khan to boot.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, January 5, 2011 10:47 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

( oo )

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Wednesday, January 5, 2011 8:04 PM

OPPYH

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Nemesis is just as loaded with plot holes as the reboot (not to mention a huge number of silly conveniences - always a bad sign in a script), except it often gets the characters wrong (which is sad given that it had the original actors in the roles, an advantage the reboot didn't have)

There was one painfully bad scene in Nemesis. Troi and Riker sex/manipulation scene. Unnecessary, and stupid. The Romulans helping the Enterprise gave me a good feeling(Although they got baked way too early). Nemesis had a slow pace at times, but when in TNG history has an episode(or movie) ever rushed along at an action film pace? Droll can create atmosphere, which can enhance a cinematic experience. Next thing you'll say is that Insurrection is a bad film.

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Wednesday, January 5, 2011 8:09 PM

OPPYH

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
( oo )

##. .##
L
___

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