How does Buffy rate along side of Firefly? by chrisisall

BUFFYVERSE

How does Buffy rate along side of Firefly?

POSTED BY: CHRISISALL
UPDATED: Tuesday, June 7, 2005 07:40
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 10839
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Monday, April 18, 2005 6:14 AM

I thought I'd take it to the Buffy afficianados,
Is Buffy better than, not as good as or equal to Firefly? ( I saw the movie of Buffy, but never actually saw an episode, in part because Howard Stern raved about it, and I thought if HE liked it, it had to be like mostly almost naked chicks with no story or something)
Now that I realize the genius that is Joss, I'm thinking I might have to get into Buffy...

TV Buffy virgin Chrisisall

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Monday, April 18, 2005 6:22 AM

Stern raved about Buffy? Wow. Just ... wow.

I'd say Buffy is on the underside of equal to Firefly. You'll find the dialogue is similar, as is the humor. Most people will point to a certain season as their favorite (many will say 2, some will say 3, far less will say any other). Past the first season, I tend to like them all almost equally. The last season drug on a bit, but it was still better than 90% of the rest of what TV offered us that year (and in years after).

And, even though you didn't ask, I'd say Angel is equal to Firefly. Watched any Angel, have you?

----------------------------------------------
Have a pancake.

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Monday, April 18, 2005 6:34 AM

Depends on your genre. The writing is fantastic, it has the same sense of humor as Firefly. However; Buffy is general geared towards a younger crowd and it's much more fantasy based wheras Firefly is more sci fi. The characters are good and it works as a great ensemble cast, but there isn't the same depth in the characters as he has in Firefly. Also, because it was his first and he wasn't sure if a TV show based on a failed movie was going to work the story arch doesn't really develop until later on in the series.

Kaylee: Wash, tell me I'm pretty
Wash: Were I unwed I would take you in a manly fashion
Kaylee: 'Cause I'm pretty?
Wash: 'Cause you're pretty

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Monday, April 18, 2005 6:35 AM

No, I'm ashamed to say, I've never seen Angel at all.
I even had a old friend who worked on Buffy as a stuntman, and yet still never took a good look! I only tuned in for a few minutes once during a fight scene and thought," these fight scenes are no better than the junk I saw in the movie!"
I have a hisory of giving commercial episodic television like all of 120 seconds to hook me.

Pre-judgemental Chrisisall

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Monday, April 18, 2005 9:00 AM

In my opinion you cannot compare Firefly to Buffy since it was axed so early on. Buffy and Angel are my two favorite shows of all time. Don't get me wrong I love Firefly. And if Firefly had been given a chance it had the potential to be better than the first two series. But Firefly was killed and I'm left feeling grateful for what we were given and pondering what might have been if it had been given a fair shake. If we are just comparing first seasons, then Firefly is easily better than Buffy season 1. Do yourself a favor and check out Buffy.

---------------------------------------

The only sovereign you can allow to rule you is reason!

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Monday, April 18, 2005 9:27 AM

Buffy is not as good as Firefly in my opinion. I can watch every single episode of Firefly over and over again. However, Buffy has episodes that were just worthless for the most part. As has been said about all Joss's works they're still better than most anything else on tv.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't check out Buffy. You really should. It's a great show and I'll eventually own all the episodes on dvd. However, since I own through Season 3 I find it hard to buy Season 4 which I think is one of the worst.

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Monday, April 18, 2005 9:53 AM

I've been a Joss fan since the Buffy movie. It wasn't my favorite movie in the world, but the basic idea captured my imagination. When it became a TV show, I was excited. So I have been with Buffy from day one. Most of the years it was on, it was something I looked forward to with excited withdrawal symptoms. As soon as each episode ended, I hungered for more. The writing was snappy, fun, and sometimes quite profound. The characters were likeable and I could relate to most of them (oddly enough, Buffy herself, in later years, became less compelling, but it didn't really effect my enjoyment of the show).

Season 2 is generally considered to be the best, but that's subjective, and many will contend some other season took the top prize. Also, every season had several episodes that fairly soared. So they are all worth checking out.

As far as being compared to Firefly, I would rate it very slightly below. It might be that I am several years out of adolescence, but I felt Firefly was more adult in its writing and themes. I love Buffy, but I am passionate about Firefly. But if you love Firefly, you'll almost certain to like Buffy.

ETA: Cheesy effects and bad stunts are to be expected. Don't let that turn you off. With the lower budget and tight production of working on TV, they did the best they could. I think they only had 10 days to work on each episode. By the time Firefly came out, computer effects had been perfected, but for Buffy, not so much. :)

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Monday, April 18, 2005 12:02 PM

Buffy is probably the 3rd best show of all time, really, it's very good. Angel is the 2nd best show, better than Buffy because the fighting is better, the stories are more epic, usually, and more complex, and the production values were a little better, in my opinion, although not in a way that I can explain (so some people would probably tell me I'm wrong about that). Both shows have the same humor as Firefly, and Joss Whedon really is the master of tight, funny, meaningful dialogue. Angel was an improvement on Buffy, as it came later, and it was a more fully realized vision, and Firefly was an improvement on Angel to a similar degree. Every episode of Firefly is awesome, every episode of Firefly would be the best episode ever of any other show. There were some outstanding Buffy episodes (and no bad ones, in my opinion, Joss Whedon gets the job done) like Hush and the musical episode, and a bunch of others, but even the best Buffy episodes aren't better than Out of Gas or Objects in Space. Even the worst Firefly episodes(which is a phrase that barely makes sense) are as good as all but the very best episodes of Angel and Buffy. If Firefly had gone 7 seasons, like Buffy, or 5, like Angel, things would have developed even better than they did on those shows.

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Monday, April 18, 2005 12:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I even had a old friend who worked on Buffy as a stuntman, and yet still never took a good look! I only tuned in for a few minutes once during a fight scene and thought," these fight scenes are no better than the junk I saw in the movie!"

Sorry, have to disagree with that bit. One of the things I really liked about Buffy was the fight choreography and stuntwork. Almost every fight had a new or unusual move, making much better than the usual 'left-right-left-right' fare. In particular, there's a scene during season 4 in the hallway of the dorm when she uses a chair quite innovatively.

I recall reading that somewhere around season 5 the stunt choreographer (I forget her name) left, and at that point you notice a very slight drop-off in the fight scenes. Always felt that stunt lady did a great job!

Getting back to the thread, I like Firefly more than the others, but somehow rate Buffy and Angel as equals.

"Don't say 'ka' until you've tried it." Daniel Jackson

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Monday, April 18, 2005 1:59 PM

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

IMO, Firefly is the best episodic tv show ever. I had never seen more than five minutes of any Buffy or Angel until earlier this year. I bought the first seasons of Buffy and Angel when amazon had them on sale. I rented Seasons 2 and 3 of Buffy through Netflix, then I bought season 4 just a few weeks ago during another amazon sale.

I was not that impressed with season 1 of Buffy, but it was better than the movie by a large margin. Season 2 and 3 improved quite a bit. I have watched the first four discs of Season 4, and other than the first episode I would say it is the best I've seen so far, but just the first ep of Angel impressed me more than any of the Buffy I had seen up to that point, and it has continued to impress me through disc four as well.

On a scale of 10 here is how I would rate the three series:

Firefly - 9.9 (just misses perfection because it is not complete)

Angel - 8

Buffy - 7

There are a few other series I might rate at least as high if not higher than Angel right now, but remember I have only seen a little more than half of its first season. Sports Night, Wonderfalls, and Freaks and Geeks rate very high with me too.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Monday, April 18, 2005 2:05 PM

I'd rank Buffy right up there. I have seen every episode (thank you, FX network!) and, like everyone else, have my feelings about various seasons. Some episodes are merely OK, most are good, some are great, and a few re-define what television is capable of. You'll love the dialogue, the writing, and the "Buffy-isms" (you'll understand when you hear them). But it is indeed geared toward a younger crowd. My only advice is to try it.

MAL "You only gotta scare him."
JAYNE "Pain is scary..."

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Monday, April 18, 2005 2:52 PM

I love Buffy and Angel. I've seen them all and own Buffy 1-4 and Angel 1. As the crossover stories make it almost necessary to buy them in pairs starting there I have not continued yet. Firefly is still better. It never had time to have a bad episode. Buffy had seven seasons, Angel 5, so sure there were some episodes that were pretty bad. Of course that's only comparing them to the rest. As has already been conveyed, even the worst eps of Buffy or Angel are better than anything else on. Wonderfalls also never had a bad episode. You just can't go wrong with any of them. Though I think the worst was Buffy + the double meat palace, and Angel (Cordy + Conner)
There are far too many great things in Buffy and Angel to not see them.

Visit WWW.Marillion.Com for a better way to live

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Monday, April 18, 2005 4:51 PM

I didn't read the thread, so I dunno what's been said...buuut...

The shows are very different. I feel that, even though it did get pretty adult, Buffy is aimed at a 'younger' or very different audience. Firefly has always come off to me as a very mature smart show that needed a completely different viewing public than Buffy.

Having said that, I'm 13 and I believe Firefly is at least slightly better than Buffy. BTVS is chalk-full of Joss brilliance and shouldn't be put down at all, but I think Firefly benefited from Joss having done two shows already. I have to be in a different mood for each, though, so I don't believe one is truly better than the other when taken as wholes. Um, yeah. I'm not making any sense....I can't make up my own mind. *Slowly sneaks away*

"Bwaa...it's kind of a warrior...strikes fear into the hearts of..."

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Monday, April 18, 2005 5:02 PM

Buffy, Angel and Firefly are like children. They are all different and special and you love them all equally. Or at least that is what you tell them.

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Monday, April 18, 2005 5:08 PM

NUMEROCINCUENTAUNO

One of the sadder facets of Firefly's untimely end is that we will never really be able to answer the question. All of Whedon's shows are constructed to work on multiple levels: action and snappy dialog; the episode plots; and the season (or longer) story arcs and mythology. While Firefly did a remarkable job sketching a universe and a mythology, we never really got to see where they would go with a full season (except to the extent it lives on in the BDM and sequels). Buffy and Angel also allowed the characters (and ensembles) to grow and evolve and react to events within the stories to a remarkable degree. The Firefly characters had plenty of room for that kind of growth, but, alas, we will probably never see it in the full detail permitted by a weekly show.

The Firefly episodes that did get made were all excellent. Perhaps, however, our perception of the show benefited from its short life. Some elements of the premise might not have held up. How many dodgy smuggling jobs float around in the 'verse? How long could the sexual tension between Mal and Inara, Simon and Kaylee stay credible? How many times could the gang get rounded up by the authorities and somehow get loose?

The very fact that people are watching episodes over and over is also a potential problem. Firefly may have simply been too dense for network TV. Its quality and cleverness only becomes apparent in multiple viewings. Hopefully, these qualities will succeed on the big screen.

Buffy and Angel were certainly more successful shows than Firefly. They were somewhat different in tone and target audience, but they were where Joss perfected much of the craft he put into Firefly. That alone makes them worth checking out.

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Monday, April 18, 2005 5:08 PM

Chisbo, I've read that Buffy came to a perfect end on the last ep, but that Angel's last show was too dark and somehow incomplete. Is this right?

Needs completion Chrisisall

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Monday, April 18, 2005 5:21 PM

My three favorite shows of all time, although I'm tempted to include "Wonderfalls" in that group even though it wasn't produced by Joss - OK, Tim Minear as surrogate explains that.

Comparing them is very difficult, as you can tell from the varying opinions that have already been posted. Firefly certainly had a better START than Angel which, in turn, had a better start than BtVS. Unfortunately, to me, the comparability ends there because Firefly ended so soon. What you get from both BtVS and Angel that you don't get from Firefly is Joss' trademark character development. (For instance) You get to see the journey of Wesley Wyndam-Pryce as he starts out as the comic dufus in BtVS' season 3 and gradually evolves into one of the most complex, dark, tragic characters ever shown on tv (or any other medium) by the last episode of Angel (six years later). Firefly started off with nine great characters, but we never got to see what would happen to them over time and how they would change as a result. We were barely introduced to them before the show ended.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is, even though Firefly got off to a better start than Angel and BtVS, I would still rank them ahead of it overall because of the long-term story arcs and resultant character development that you get to be amazed by on the other two shows. Knowing Joss, Firefly would have followed in their footsteps and likely would have ended up being even better in the long run. But, thanks to the #^*^$*$*@ at F*X, we never got to see what would have happened.

Apathy on the Rise. No One Cares.

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Monday, April 18, 2005 5:24 PM

Buffy for me is the better show but only because it got more time to develop its characters and mythos, etc. I'm not a big fan of the final two seasons so when I think of the greatness of Buffy I think Seasons 1-5.

But 6 and 7 happened and they can't be ignored. FIREFLY, because it only lasted one season has a smaller percentage of weak episodes than BUFFY, IMHO. But because it was cut short it didn't the chance for consistent excellence that BUFFY was able to maintain (for a while).

I love both shows and I think they're both great. If FIREFLY had lasted five or more seasons, I don't know how I'd feel.

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Monday, April 18, 2005 6:13 PM

Chrisisall, I've heard the same thing, and I'm not a total expert on the shows(I only started watching them after Firefly, and I gradually bought all 7 episodes of Buffy and all 5 of Angel, and just finished Angel like 4 days ago), but I actually feel that the opposite is true. I think that Buffy ended a little too conveniently, and sort of wrapped everything up too quickly (and Willow had basically infinite power in the last episode, as she was able to turn thousands of girls into slayers, with her godlike magical powers, a fact that I just didn't like), whereas Angel ended in Joss Whedon style, with the characters still fighting, with some uncertainty about what's going to happen (although it's tough to bet against Spike and Angel in the last fight, especially with Illyria on their side), and with a complicated, compelling finish. It's hard to explain in any more detail unless you've watched the episodes (which you really should), but I think that Angel ended more like a Joss Whedon show, with lots of layers, with subtlety, and with the viewer partly happy, partly sad, partly inspired. I'm actually jealous of you if you haven't watched Buffy or Angel yet, you should, I would never say that they're as good as Firefly, but they are very good, and the character development is excellent. If you're not convinced to watch them yet, let me tell you that Nathan Fillion plays an awesome priest villain in the last 5 or so episodes of Buffy, Adam Baldwin is a villain in the last 4-5 episodes of Angel, Gina Torres is really the main villain in Season 4 of Angel, and the guy who plays Tracy in The Message is a fairly important character in about 12 episodes of Season 5 of Angel and plays a funny vampire in an episode of Buffy. Also, Joss Whedon writes the dialogue, so you know it's good. I wish I had 12 seasons of Joss Whedon TV that I could look forward to watching, seriously. I know lots of browncoats have watched Buffy and Angel, but for those who haven't, you really should, they're very good, and worth the time, for sure.

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Monday, April 18, 2005 11:38 PM

woah, dude. spoilerific there for someone stating that they haven't seen anything of the buffyverse.

---------------------------------------------
eviltobz - that's lowercase gorram it!

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Tuesday, April 19, 2005 12:12 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST

Chrisisall.

Hey bud, fancy you not having seen either Buffy or Angel - who'd have thunk it and with you having a mate on the stunt team in the show too.

Ok to answer your question.

Buffy is a very different animal to Firefly. It's very difficult to rate it as better or worse than Firefly.

Personally I think the best episodes of Buffy were better than the best episodes of Firefly, but Firefly was the better show overall.

Buffy however has the luxury of having seasonal arc's and this is where it's overall strength lies. Ultimately the whole Buffy lore is so vast that Joss would make reference of episodes to come way in advance, sometimes even seasons in advance, and it's this that would really hook you as a viewer. The tapistry Joss wove around Buffy was enormous - so much so that for Season 4 of Buffy and Season 1 of Angel the characters were intertwined in an out of each others shows, furthering a greater larger narrative that made both shows unmissable!!!

My own take on it is that I can't be without any of them. Clearly Buffy is now the older show so it may come across as somewhat juvenile, I mean that in the non derogatory way, just that it was meant for a younger audience, and in part that may determine your opinion of it, but all the same the humour is fantastic, and the stories very enjoyable and entertaining and best of all just plain FUN!

*When I rewatch Buffy - I think Buffy is the best show ever

*When I rewatch Angel - I think Angel is the best show ever

*When I rewatch Firefly - I think Firefly is the best show ever

It's just so hard to choose.

You watch Buffy and Angel and then see if you can make up your mind.

Regards
The
Somnambulist

(Oh and just to let you know - the Stuntwork in Angel ROCKS!!!!!)

www.cirqus.com

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Tuesday, April 19, 2005 2:33 AM

Fans of Firefly that havent seen Buffy and/or Angel ? bad very bad.

Taste can be very different but to me the ranking have to be

1. Buffy
2. Angel
3. Firefly - mostly because the series never got the time to grow and develop like the other two series.

While early Buffy with its high school environment looks like a teen show, Joss and the rest of the writers added layers that others shows never manages to reach, while regularly ripping the viewers heart out and laughing at us for believing that they would ever allow us to become bored.

All three shows have the quality that sci-fi/fantasy fans look for, anything can happen and frequently will, and that is as TheSomnambulist said FUN.

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Tuesday, April 19, 2005 3:49 AM

Chisbo, thanks for the imput. I'm going now, to get a 2nd job so I can get 12 new seasons of JossTV.

Appreciative Chrisisall

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Tuesday, April 19, 2005 3:54 AM

Hmmmm...

I bought Firefly because I was having withdrawal symptoms from the Buffyverse and thought Whedon might pull it off again with FF.

I think he would have done if he had had more time. FF was an amazing series and I expect the film to be fantastic but it is not in its present form better than Buffy or Angel (if any of you know Babylon 5 I think that is better than Firefly too, please don't shoot me

).

Having said that the First Series of Buffy is pretty mediocre in comparison with the rest of the show, and in agreement with others I think Series 7 was very slow. I never liked the ending either.

To the people that argue Buffy is aimed at a younger audience I would say that it WAS but that audience grew up with the series. If anyone recalls the episode Seeing Red in S6 a major, and very popular character, attempts to rape Buffy. This is not childrens tv. Some episodes were edited down to 30 minutes by the BBC when they aired it before the watershed - this is not for ikkle people.

I haven't yet decided whether Angel is as good or better than Buffy. The ending was absolutely amazing though!

PS For those of you that have yet to see Babylon 5 (and Blakes 7 while I am at it) pleeeeese watch it. Whedon took some of his inspiration from it which must make it worth something.

I really should get me a signature

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Tuesday, April 19, 2005 4:06 AM

Somnambulist, I was kinda hoping people were gonna say,'they're okay..' but now I see I can no longer avoid the truth; I must own them.
When I first started posting, I made no mention of not seeing Joss' other shows 'cause it seemed as if everyone but me had seen 'em, and I didn't know if that would somehow be irritating to seasoned Browncoats. Now I know much better, y'all are trying to show me the light, not give me a hidin'.
I thank you.
My wallet doesn't, but that's between me and my wallet, isn't it?
I think my biggest mistake was assuming Charmed (which I have seen a little, due to my wife's skewed tastes) was like Buffy and Angel. So I was like, seen one, seen 'em all.

And I'm not kidding about a 2nd job...

Maybe I can ask for donations like that dude on the 'Unbelievable' thread...?

Later, S

The financially challenged Chrisisall

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Tuesday, April 19, 2005 4:22 AM

One more person's opinion here....I got into Angel in the third year and then started watching Buffy reruns in season three. I immediately played catch up and watch everything. I was starved for more Whedon and started reading the Firefly scripts on the internet and then bought the DVD.

I think Firefly had the most potential but it was never realized because the show was cut short. I love all three shows for very different reastons and I highly recommend them all.

My favorite Buffy season was season six and my favorite Angel season was season five.

While people may say that Buffy was geared to a younger audience, I would disagree, because season six was very adult and if I had a teenage daughter I'm not sure I would have wanted her to watch some of the episodes.

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Tuesday, April 19, 2005 4:42 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST

Apologies to Chrisisall's wallet. Hey if it's any consolation my wallet has been in trouble ever since mr Wheddon released his wonderful shows on DVD.

I bought all the seasons in order of release and watched them avidly avoiding any spoilers. I even refused to watch the new episodes on TV when they were ahead of the DVD releases... The only time I strayed was with Firefly when I visited a friend who had sky and he said that I gotta catch this new show on the Sci-fi channel... When I saw the opening credits and that it was a Joss Wheddon show I froze!.. tried not to take too much in although It was cool coz it was the Train Job. Thereafter I waited for the DVD release. But anyway all bought at original release prices - non of this sale malarky..... Owch!

So that's all 7 seasons of Buffy 5 of Angel and well I've bought Firefly three times now as presents for friends! SO.... Well I won't work out the money involved because frankly It'll depress me - but I think it's money well spent.

In terms of the age thing with Buffy - I don't think anyone would argue that it developed into a much more mature show than when it started - again this is another thing that makes it such a great TV show.

Laters C

Dood look out, armed Mogwai lurking in the shadows!!!

The
Somnambulist

www.cirqus.com

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Tuesday, April 19, 2005 5:47 AM

What? I'll throw this bucket of water on 'em!!
Ha! That'll show 'e-
What's...

Uh....

Later S

Runnin' from the shadows Chrisisall

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Tuesday, April 19, 2005 5:54 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
What? I'll throw this bucket of water on 'em!!
Ha! That'll show 'e-
What's...

Uh....

Later S

Runnin' from the shadows Chrisisall

.... Listen I'm, I'm kinda peckish.. How about you? Fancy a midnight snack!

S

www.cirqus.com

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Tuesday, April 19, 2005 6:24 AM

Hey! You're not a Rockin' Ricky fan!

Stripe-like Chrisisall

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Tuesday, April 19, 2005 6:38 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST

If we're talking about that kid Richie who's a meatball!

Then yes I think I am.

Shhhh Here come the Klopeks

The
S

www.cirqus.com

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Tuesday, April 19, 2005 7:10 AM

I could never choose. I love all three of Joss' Mutant Enemy shows.

Buffy and Angel have a richer landscape, obviously, thanks to hundreds of episodes (combined) being produced and all of them taking place in the same "universe". Both shows are bolstered by fine writing and acting.

But I have to admit Firefly captured my imagination a bit quicker than the other two shows.

I can't choose!! Thankfully I don't have to. I recommend renting the Buffy/Angel dvds or borrowing them from a friend. At best you will discover two amazing shows. At worst you won't feel like you wasted your time.

mattro

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Tuesday, April 19, 2005 7:10 AM

Chrisisall, just a word of warning about Buffy. Don't be put off by the sometimes slow first season (which is only 12 episodes). Some of the episodes there are ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL to understanding what comes next in the fantastic seasons two and three.

Apathy on the Rise. No One Cares.

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Tuesday, April 19, 2005 7:55 AM

SPIKEANDJEZEBEL

Everything has already been said in this thread about Buffy and Angel, but I just have to put in another vote for Blakse 7. One of the alltime great sci-fi dramas, and a HUGE influence on Firefly. "The Train Job" even pays direct homage to it, lifting this passage of dialogue from B7:

"Nice shot."
"I was aiming for his head!"

"I like smackin' 'em!" - Jayne Cobb

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Tuesday, April 19, 2005 8:34 AM

I'm agreeing with who ever on here said that BtVS, AtS, and FF are all like children that you love equally for very different reasons. Lemme explain...

BtVS: Basic starter metaphor: High School is Hell
-Being a teenager is hard, even harder when you have super powers that are in place to protect the rest of the world from knowing about all the evilly-badness. Having friends helps, a good father figure too, but nothing makes growing up easy. Personally, Buffy at it's finest could make you laugh one second and move you to tears the next. Summed up nicely in The Gift by Buffy: "The hardest thing in this world, is to live in it" Personally I prefer Seasons 3 through 6, I liked the series when it started getting darker and harder for Buffy. Like Joss, I do not like people making with the happy 24-7 Which brings us to:

Angel: Basic starter metaphor (as per Joss): Angel's like a recovering alcoholic, who's got a lot of past ills to make up for; a lot of people he hurt, and if he isn't careful, he'll turn right back into that alcoholic. It's about walking that fine line between redemption and damnnation. To me Angel is a show about being in your 20s, learning to cope with the world around you, learning that good doesn't always mean right, and that sometimes the biggest monster in your life is yourself. Angel is a lot darker than Buffy.

Now Personally I have to say I love all three series. Buffy was about high school, Angel is about your first steps into the real world, and Firefly was about realizing the world isn't a nice place, the only thing that makes it survivable is the people around you, and you can only take it one day at a time. I think that they all serve a different purpose.

When I first watched Buffy I was in high school, and when I returned to the series I was in my early 20s and I caught season six, which is the darkest, and to me the season I can relate to the most. Everyone finds a season or episodes of Buffy that they can relate to. Same with Angel, same with Firefly.

If you were only to see a handful of Buffy epidose from each season, this is what I personally would recommend:

S.1: Welcome to the Hellmouth/The Harvest (2 part), Angel, Prophecy Girl
S.2: When She Was Bad, School Hard, Halloween, What's My Line part I & II, Surprise, Innocence, Passion, I Only Have Eyes For You, Becoming Part I & II
S.3: "Faith, Hope and Trick," Band Candy, Lover's Walk, The Wish, Amends (only so you get season 7), Bad Girls, Consequences, Dopplegangland, Earshot (preempted cos of Columbine, good poignant episode), Graduation Part I and II
S.4: The Harsh Light of Day, Wild At Heart, Pangs, Something Blue, Hush, This Year's Girl, Who Are You?, Superstar, Primeval, Restless
S.5: The Real Me, No Place like Home, Fool For Love, Into the Woods, Checkpoint, Crush, The Body, Forever, Spiral, The Gift
S.6: Bargaining Part I & II, Life Serial, Once More With Feeling (musical), Tabula Rasa, Smashed, Wrecked, Hell's Bells, Entropy, Seeing Red, Villians, Two to Go, Grave
S.7: Beneath You, Help, Selfless, Conversations With Dead People, The Killer in Me, Storyteller, Lies My Parents Told Me, Dirty Girls, Empty Places, Touched, End of Days, Chosen

I'm not listing Angel, but I say if you catch a couple of epsiodes on FX, Fox latenight or the WB latenight, you'll get hooked. Angel too.

Now I have to immediately dig out all my dvds and watch my favs. And to think I just got done rewatching FF for like the 8th or 10th time!
-A

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Inara: "Do aliens live among us?"
Kaylee: "Yes. One of them's a doctor."

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Tuesday, April 19, 2005 9:38 AM

BlackEyedGirl, thanks so much for the starting tips for virgins like myself (few as there may be). I've got a lot to catch up on, almost enough to keep me busy 'till the BDM!
Thanks everyone else, too!

The much, MUCH obliged Chrisisall

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Tuesday, April 19, 2005 8:36 PM

Quote:
Everything has already been said in this thread about Buffy and Angel, but I just have to put in another vote for Blakse 7. One of the alltime great sci-fi dramas, and a HUGE influence on Firefly. "The Train Job" even pays direct homage to it, lifting this passage of dialogue from B7:

"Nice shot."
"I was aiming for his head!"

Hoorah!

Thanks SpikeandJezebel! Also, have you ever noticed how much Firefly looks like the Liberator? You could use the same tagline for both... a bunch of dodgy reprobates fleeing the interstellar government trying to survive. (not pretty but it'll do)

I really should get me a signature

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Wednesday, April 20, 2005 4:22 AM

I was referring to Rockin' Ricky Rialto, the voice of Kingston Falls in Gremlins, wanted to see ifn' you'd pick that up, what with me bein' a BIG Gremlins fan (didn't much care for the second one, though).
Who are the Klopeks?

Light light Chrisisall

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Wednesday, April 20, 2005 6:04 AM

SPIKEANDJEZEBEL

Agreed - I always thought Firefly might end up more like B7, down the line if Mal took up the fight against the government again and lead the new revolution. Ahhh, what might have been!

Other B7 references I've noticed in Joss' work are Spike's "limiter" chip in Buffy, and the finale of Angel, which reminded me of the last episode of B7.

I'm on the verge of buying a region free DVD player so I can get Blakes 7 on DVD, as there is no word on a region 1 release yet - Aarrgghh!

"I like smackin' 'em!" - Jayne Cobb

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Wednesday, April 20, 2005 6:22 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I was referring to Rockin' Ricky Rialto, the voice of Kingston Falls in Gremlins, wanted to see ifn' you'd pick that up, what with me bein' a BIG Gremlins fan (didn't much care for the second one, though).
Who are the Klopeks?

Light light Chrisisall

Hey Big C looks like we're about to disagree on something!!!! Shock!!!!

I much prefer Gremilns II - the new batch!!! The first one for me was far too sugary and cute - the second one was just totally Tex Avery - I mean the film even tears midway through !!! Fantastic. I saw it in the cinema when it was released and I was about the only guy laughing....

I got the reference by the way - but I was taking it one step further - Y'see Gremilns was directed by the great Joe Dante who later went on to direct the much underated "The Burbs". In The Burbs is a character called Ricky played by Corey Feldman, who is a bit of a metal head. Anyway Bruce Dern who plays his neighbour calls him a Meatball! after Ricky comments on Bruce Dern's Wife having no tan lines. This he says while plunging a paint brush into a pot of paint making squelching sounds! It's a bloody funny film - very subtle - has me cracking up hugely!!!

Anyway the Klopeks are the secretive Neighbours from Hell who live next door to Tom Hankswho he obsesses over as he belives them to be digging graves in their back garden.

However back tracking a tad - I love Gremlins for the film references in it. In particular the Time Machine :)

Cheers
The
Somnambulist

www.cirqus.com

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Wednesday, April 20, 2005 6:40 AM

Now I must rent The Burbs. I'ts piling up.
Gremlins 2 WAS verrry funny (especially the love scene with Robert Picardo), I just prefer the more realistic tone (?!) in the first one.

Gonna get Buffy season one next week, my journey will begin.

P.S. check out 'Firefly in Battlestar mini-series' thread in Other science fiction forum.
(and speaking of Hell, ever see a crazy little film with Kristy Swanson called Highway To Hell?)

Good consumer Chrisisall

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Wednesday, April 20, 2005 7:15 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST

ROBERT PICARDO what a genius comedic actor that guy is!

D'you remember him from Inner Space as "The Cowboy"

Here's his song:

I'm an old Cow Hen
From the Rio Gren'
But my legs not bowed
and my skins not tanned.
I'm a cowboy who's never seen a cow
Can't rope a steer coz I don't know how,
I'm not for to start learning now....
Yippee yi-yeah Ohio.

*Does pistol fingers*

Or words to that effect.

The
Somnambulist

www.cirqus.com

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Wednesday, April 20, 2005 8:51 AM

I'm a doctor, not a doorstop.

Chrisisall

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Wednesday, April 20, 2005 11:56 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I' a doctor, not a doorstop.

Chrisisall

I take it that's his thing from Star trek Voyager?... Wasn't as up on Voyager....

Say I just realised I forgot to mention that I hadn't seen that film with Kristy Swanson - what's the premise to that film? Now I think of it I haven't seen her in anything else really after the Buffy film.

So you're gonna buy it next week - cool! I kinda wish I could watch Buffy all over again without knowing what it's all about - it was a great trip into Joss' world. Lucky you matey - treasure these naive Buffy days - you'll enjoy it all the more.

As was mentioned earlier by someone stick with the first season you will be rewarded :) Y'know Joss this is where he learnt his tricks... enjoy.

Well It's late here - must dash.

Always fun swapping banter Chrisisall. Take care.

I guess I should leave you with a suitable quote... Hmmm..... OK:

"My own brother, a goddam, sh*tsucking vampire. Boy, you wait till mom finds out buddy."

Ric

www.cirqus.com

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Wednesday, April 20, 2005 12:12 PM

The doorstop thing was Picardo's Voyager character in his cameo in Star Trek: First Contact. BIG laugh from the audience.

Highway to Hell was written by Brian Englund (spelling?) who wrote Payback (among many others) and concerns Kristy (pre-Buf) Swanson gettin' kidnapped by Satan and rescued by her boyfriend who has to travel to Hell to do it! Thriller/comedy.

G'nite Sombnambulist. Don't let the space bugs bite.

Sandman Chrisisall

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Thursday, April 21, 2005 5:24 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bikisdad:
Chrisisall, just a word of warning about Buffy. Don't be put off by the sometimes slow first season (which is only 12 episodes). Some of the episodes there are ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL to understanding what comes next in the fantastic seasons two and three.

Thanks muchly, I'll keep that in mind. But from what I hear, I'm thinkin' I'm gonna dig it slow or not.

Where's my prom dress Chrisisall

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Thursday, April 21, 2005 8:39 AM

I got it, I got it! Buffy season one at evil Walmart for only $15 US, That's like $1.40 per episode!!! I'm so psyched!
Tonight let the slaying begin!

Buffy virgin for only seven more hours Chrisisall

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Thursday, April 21, 2005 10:10 AM

Be sure to let us know what you think. I'd like to know how you would rate Buffy in comparison to FF. I'm sure you'll love it.

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Thursday, April 21, 2005 12:04 PM

Will do, Starrbaby.
Four more hours and counting!
Back in sixteen with my first reaction.

The anxiously awaiting Chrisisall

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Friday, April 22, 2005 6:15 AM

Well, I watched Welcome to the Hellmouth and The Harvest last night. It came across like a superhero comic mixed with an Elm Street flick peppered with REALLY funny stuff!!
The "carbon dated" line got me big time!!
And as they were walkin' into the school at the beginning I heard "shiny nickle" ha ha !Sound was up high- it even had me jump a couple o' times. I'm gonna make a whole big thing o' popcorn next time.
I was surprised to see the series pick up some time after the movie, though. I kinda expected a, you know...remake, it assumes you've seen the movie (which is ok, I have), but I would've liked to see Ms. Geller learning from scratch (no biggie, though).

Total fun.

Rating it alonside Firefly...hmmm.
Pilot vs. pilot there is no comparison, Firefly is just plain better written and executed. I don't know about in the long run. I will see, though. I hear Buffy only gets better!

Firefly's more mature and sly with it's wit, an easier and more comfortable walk, if you will. And of course the characters are more the kind to kick up your feet with than in Buffy's world.

But Buffy did rock! I can't believe I got a hundred and more eps to see!

Thanks Starrbaby and the rest of y'all for the above posts and parley.

Lost in the slaying Chrisisall

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