A not-so brief rant on the Sloooooow DVD release schedule in U.S. by Hjermsted

BUFFYVERSE

A not-so brief rant on the Sloooooow DVD release schedule in U.S.

POSTED BY: HJERMSTED
UPDATED: Saturday, October 5, 2002 17:00
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 8580
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Thursday, June 20, 2002 12:09 PM

Is there anything we as the cats with the $$ can do to speed up the DVD release of our favorite TV shows?

To whom can we write letters or send our petitions?

Buffy S3 won't be out in the states until 2003!
I have no idea when Angel S1 will be made available here.. probably after it is syndicated in 2005. Firefly on DVD? Ha! Wait until 2008!

Somehow the UK is already enjoying their DVD sets of Buffy S4 and S2 of Angel. It wouldn't surprise me if they ALREADY had S1 of Firefly on DVD over there.

I realize European networks tend not to show repeats of US shows, don't syndicate them and (for the most part) don't even sell commercial time in the middle of shows. American entertainment honchos would shit themselves to lose that much $$. Going straight to DVD with the collected progams does make greedy capitalist sense on the other side of the pond. Revenues must be maximized somehow, right?

Here in the states, we have this long arduous process designed to squeeze $$ out of every possible teat (from the network and its sponsors then - after 100 episodes have accumulated - from the syndicated network and its sponsors). THEN comes the DVD merchandising route.

I'm sure there are exceptions. Shows that are canceled could get collected on DVD immediately. Other shows are on specialty networks where the rules are a little different and DVD sets tend to come out sooner(Farscape on Sci Fi comes to mind.)

With this decrepit system in place in the U.S. we're all going to be decrepit ourselves before we have all the episodes we want on disc. (I know there are VCDs out there, but those things pile up due to that format's one-episode-per-disc limitation... plus no DVD extras).

As a viewer of all Whedon-iverse shows and as a consumer disposing of more income than I can afford (for now at least), I want to make the following point to the powers that be: I watch the shows when they debut on the networks. If I'm home and the timing is right, I'll also watch the syndicated rebroadcasts over and over and over... Lastly, I buy the DVDs and binge on those extras! I do all of the above. So do friends of mine who are also Whedon fans. No one is losing money on the simultaneous existence of BTVS S1 and S2 on syndicated TV and DVD. Stop treating the viewers (ie. consumers) and the sponsors as competing revenue sources. It's not really true when you analyze the situation.

Shows as good as Buffy and Angel are cross-marketing method performers. There's no need to portion out sequentially the methods with which you financially profit from this material. If the show quality is high (check!), if the product demand is great (ditto) and if the fans are dedicated (check!), then the money will come at ya from all sides.

PLEASE, PLEASE Powers That Be... at the very least, increase the pace of these Buffy DVD season releases! A new season every six months is far too slow... Every four months is tolerable, but every other month (like ST:TNG is doing) is the best way to go. Especially when you've already made us wait FIVE YEARS for syndictation to kick in.

Yours with too much free time,
mattro

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Thursday, June 20, 2002 2:15 PM

HAKEN

Likes to mess with stuffs.

Does FOX profit more from the DVD sales than having the series syndicated? That's probably a big determining factor as to how quickly they'll release the DVDs.

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Thursday, June 20, 2002 2:33 PM

NOVAGRASS

Angel S1 is already in the production process in the US... check out amazon.com for more info.

A six month release schedule isn't *that* bad, but when the discs have already been mastered for the UK audience (the US version is just a repackaged version), it's just cruel to make us wait.

The X-Files is being released by Fox on the same schedule, and while I don't really care about that (cause I don't collect them), it's relevant because they are being totally mastered for their release, which is why it's taking so long. Buffy's already been mastered! It's just odd... and doesn't really make sense that we're being forced to wait this long.

--Dylan Palmer, aka NoVaGrAsS--

"Nice guys can only get so mad." Fillion on Mal

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Thursday, June 20, 2002 5:22 PM

MOJOECA

I think the six month sked is appropriate for the market. These sets are expensive -- the customers must be given enough time to save up (if they're of the younger set), enough time to view, tire off the current DVD, and enough time to salivate over the next release.

And of course, syndication. The syndie market is MUCH more lucrative, which is why it's the first step before DVD release. It's also another factor in the release sked, because the longer the DVDs take, the more $ the networks (FX and local FOX affiliates, in this case) can squeeze out from syndication.

And despite whatever Amazon says about AtS season 1 DVDs, it WILL NOT be released in the US until after it hits syndication (in the fall 2004 season).

--- Joe

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Friday, June 21, 2002 7:56 AM

BOBKNAPTOR

I'm frustrated by it to... I watched the entire season two in a single weekend, and as soon as it was finished, I was (am) chomping at the bit for the first Season 3. I console myself that it will be on FX soon, but gosh, they're still showing Season 1 right now.

However, I understand the need for releasing every 6 months. They've got to keep people watching FX. I know that I used to be sure to tune in to FX for 2 hours a day, 5 days a week, and now that I have S1 and S2 on DVD, I am not so religious in my viewing. (FX has the WORST commercials... If I NEVER see another "Son of the Beach" commercial it will be too soon!

) I'm just biding my time until they start S3 before I get back to my constant viewing habbits. If I had all six seasons on DVD, I might never turn on FX again.

As for Angel, I noticed on Buffy S2 DVD, there was a commercial for Angel S1 on VHS. I could settle for that until the DVD is ready... but I wasn't able to find it on Amazon. Does anyone know if this a UK only release?

Are you miserable about it, or just really British?

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Friday, June 21, 2002 8:28 AM

MALCOLM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hjermsted:
Is there anything we as the cats with the $$ can do to speed up the DVD release of our favorite TV shows?

PLEASE, PLEASE Powers That Be... at the very least, increase the pace of these Buffy DVD season releases! A new season every six months is far too slow... Every four months is tolerable, but every other month (like ST:TNG is doing) is the best way to go. Especially when you've already made us wait FIVE YEARS for syndictation to kick in.

Yours with too much free time,
mattro

Mattro,
The big problem is that there are holdbacks created by the networks airing the shows. For example, UPN pays a huge licensing fee to show the new season of Buffy and to be the exclusive source for the new shows for up to TWO years. Which means you won't see the musical episode anytime soon on F/X or the DVD (or VHS release which is only in the UK, I think). For the rest of the world, the holdbacks are typically a year or less. Sucks for us, but if the UPN didn't pony up the big bucks, the show wouldn't get made in the first place. Circle of Life and all that.

MBS

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Friday, June 21, 2002 2:20 PM

FERALWANDERER

Just so you know Australia also has Season 4 Buffy and Season 2 Angel out on DVD. I think we get Season 5 Buffy in Oct/Nov ish...

But then guys we always are months behind on the first showing...and those who show it tend to slice bits off to fit in more adds...and have their damn logo sitting on the screen for the whole ep...

Jason
Sydney, Australia

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Friday, June 21, 2002 11:00 PM

CHARLIEBLUE

Quote:
Originally posted by feralwanderer:
and have their damn logo sitting on the screen for the whole ep...

I think they do that here in the US, too. (Can't check my tapes of Buffy right now, but I know I've complained about it through enough shows that I doubt they'd make an exception.)

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Saturday, June 22, 2002 9:58 AM

RINGWRAITH

I don't know if anyone knows but according to http://www.thedigitalbits.com Fox will be releasing 24 on DVD, hopefully sometime early next year, or even earlier. It's being released in Britain first (natch) but the Region 1 release shouldn't be far behind. The reasoning is apparently they want to offset costs of the production of the show, which is high, by selling copies on DVD. I think it's a good idea and more others should be doing this, screw syndication.

And us Babylon 5 fans are in for a treat, the entire first season is finally coming to DVD courtesy of WB.

As for Angel, I am kinda miffed it's not out. I like that show a lot.

************************************************
"How will this end?"
"In fire."
--Babylon 5, 'The Coming of Shadows'
************************************************

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Sunday, July 21, 2002 10:13 AM

JOSH294

Buffy seasons one-four have come out here in the uk, but they are a lot lot lot more expensive that in the us. I bought S1 and S2 from the usa and saved £40, which I think is about $60. The extras are the same, although the usa packaging is very annoying and hard to deal with, and the usa booklets don't have scene selections or extras details. I am just going to wait for the Angel dvds to come out in the usa, there is no way i am spending soo much money on them in this country. But seriously, S3 on dvd in usa in WINTER 2003!!!

Also, im not sure about the uk or australia ones, but picture quality on S2 is shockingly bad on the R1 discs

I have no idea if this post means anything or has a point. I am tired.

Buffy: (reading the ransom note) Come to the Bronze before it opens or we make her a meal..

Xander: They're gonna cook her dinner?

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Sunday, July 21, 2002 11:36 AM

MILLERNATE

Quote:

And of course, syndication. The syndie market is MUCH more lucrative, which is why it's the first step before DVD release. It's also another factor in the release sked, because the longer the DVDs take, the more $ the networks (FX and local FOX affiliates, in this case) can squeeze out from syndication

The only reason that it is believed to be more profitable is because everyone is operating under the belief that it is more profitable. I'd be willing to bet that it would actually be more profitable to do a prompt DVD release right after the season than to wait and then do syndication (which is, from what I recall, a one-time fee paid up front for a set amount of time). of course my theory is going to be put to the test with teh prompt release of the first season of 24 on DVD.

Nathan
"Being popular and well liked is not in your best interest. Let me be more clear; if you behave in a manner pleasing to most, then you are probably doing something wrong." - Janeane Garofalo, from "Feel this Book"

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Sunday, July 21, 2002 1:42 PM

MOJOECA

Quote:
Originally posted by Josh294:
But seriously, S3 on dvd in usa in WINTER 2003!!! Also, im not sure about the uk or australia ones, but picture quality on S2 is shockingly bad on the R1 discs
I have no idea if this post means anything or has a point. I am tired.

The 6 month release sked is standard. Winter 2003 means next January, not December '03 as some people have assumed.

Picture quality on my s2 DVDs is just fine. Keep in mind the show was filmed in 16mm during the first couple of years. They switched to 32 in year 3.

--- Joe

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Sunday, July 21, 2002 2:10 PM

MOJOECA

Quote:
Originally posted by millernate:

The only reason that it is believed to be more profitable is because everyone is operating under the belief that it is more profitable. I'd be willing to bet that it would actually be more profitable to do a prompt DVD release right after the season than to wait and then do syndication (which is, from what I recall, a one-time fee paid up front for a set amount of time). of course my theory is going to be put to the test with teh prompt release of the first season of 24 on DVD.

I really don't agree. Production companies make tens of millions (hundreds, even) off of syndie deals. There's certainly a market for DVDs, but really only hardcore fans are really to plump down the cash for all seasons. Many bought SIMPSONS season 1, but no way they're going to grab all 13!

Nevertheless, the fact the a show is available on DVD significantly reduces it's value. I'm sure there's a noticable dip in ratings for BUFFY eps that are available on disc. I'm guessing hundreds of thousands of units have been sold? That's a significant loss in viewership.

24 is a different beast altogether. Because it's a balls-out serial, it's resale value is almost nil -- and its first-run ratings were un-spectacular to begin with. Also, FOX apparently wants to create the impression that the show isn't a show at all, but a miniseries event -- hence no summer reruns, and no syndication.

--- Joe

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Sunday, July 21, 2002 5:50 PM

MILLERNATE

I think you missed my point in this. I'm not saying that they currently will make more money off of syndication as opposed DVD under their current plan. That was not my intent. What I'm saying is that they could very easily change their marketing and financial focus such that they could make more money on DVDs as a primary rebroadcast means than syndication. The fact that DVDs currently only sell to "hardcore fans" is merely a symptom of their current method. This is because, from a marketing and financial planning standpoint, DVDs are treated as an afterthought (I'm talking TV DVDs in this case). I know that the advertising for the Buffy DVDs have been essentially nil. so it only stands to reason that they won't do major numbers on that.

Let us contrast that with movies. Now with movies the primary rebroadcast means are now DVDs and not any sort of television sales. THus they market the DVDs accordingly (take a look at the advertising for The Royal Tenenbaums, which was only a mild financial success, compared with the Buffy DVD release, Tenenbaums are receiving much more of a marketing push) with more advertising and what not. You mention that a show being available on DVD reduces its value? Well conversely a show being on syndication reduces its ability to make DVD sales (thus who knows how well they'd do without free competition). I'd also be willing to bet that the ratings for BUffy's syndication dropped significantly after the first run anyways (which was well before the Season 1 DVD release) as most people pay attention to syndication only in its very initial release (for example: When Nickelodeon managed to reair WKRP after a long hiatus from syndication, people only paid attention at the very beginning).

I'm not saying you are not right under the system as it is now (because you very clearly are). Its just that there is some precedence in related fields to change the approach used to make DVDs something more than an afterthought for "hardcore fans".

Nathan
"Being popular and well liked is not in your best interest. Let me be more clear; if you behave in a manner pleasing to most, then you are probably doing something wrong." - Janeane Garofalo, from "Feel this Book"

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Sunday, July 21, 2002 8:49 PM

You make an excellent point - at least for BTVS - and I wouldn't argue except to add some more considerations. How much money does the abstract film make vs. the TV series in its first run, what does it do overseas, and how rewatchable is it? There's certainly a lot of abysmal movies but there seem to be a much higher percentage of "movies worth watching" than TV series. I don't have that many movies but I could go for a lot whereas there are few TV shows I'd want on DVD - even ones I loved on first run. The points you make about viewership for syndication dropping off go double for DVDs. If I'm not going to watch it for "free" in syndication, I'm really not going to pay for it on DVD. And then there's overseas - a lot of duds in the movie market recoup their losses overseas and, while American TV is popular worldwide, duds are basically duds and I'm not sure how much the foreign DVD TV series market would help, in comparison to DVD movies. Things like that... I don't know what the statistics or dynamics actually are, but I suspect these issues factor into how TV DVDs are marketed. Although, it goes without saying, I wish BTVS wasn't treated like just another TV show.

Oh - one other thing - your average movie is just a single DVD that you can watch in a couple hours, right? I think there's an issue there that you either have to split seasons up and try to "collect" the pieces, or buy large sets. The one is offputting by just being too much bother generally, and the other is offputting because you have to put down more money all at once. And then, in the watching of it, the movies a movie. Put it in see it - your done. Whereas with a TV series, you either have to watch it split up in bits and pieces at random or plan to be watching a large cycle over days or months.

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Tuesday, July 23, 2002 7:37 AM

NESS

I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this, but one solution you could try is buy an all-region DVD player. I think North America is in one region while the UK and Japan are in another. With an all-region DVD player you can play DVDs from the UK. It probably costs more and then you'll have to order the DVDs through the UK amazon, but at least you can watch season 3 and 4 of Buffy.

Maybe as fans we should start a letter writing campagin. We bother the people at FOX long enough, they'll crack eventually.

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Tuesday, July 23, 2002 8:21 AM

MALCOLM

The multi-region DVD is definitely the way to go... I heard that you can alter your own DVD player to play all regions, but I haven't heard how. Anyone know?

I also did a little research on the contractual "window" for releasing TV shows to DVD and apparently it's like FOUR YEARS for UPN for Buffy!

And Season Five just hit the shelves in the UK.

That being said, Fox is releasing "24" Season One before Xmas this year. I guess it's easier if it is a Fox show on the Fox Network (Buffy is a Fox show on UPN). Maybe there's hope for Firefly to come out sooner than later. Now if we can just get Fox to show it in letterbox on TV!

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Tuesday, July 23, 2002 9:18 AM

SHUGGIE

Quote:
Originally posted by malcolm:
And Season Five just hit the shelves in the UK.

Actually no. It's out on 21st Oct 2002. S5 has been out on VHS for a while if that's what you meant.

Shug

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Wednesday, July 24, 2002 9:33 AM

MALCOLM

I stand corrected!

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Monday, August 5, 2002 6:17 PM

KOOKYTREE

I'm from England, and not only do we have the S4/S2 DVDs but Buffy S5 and Angel S3 on tape before its even been shown on non-cable TV! But saying that, you guys get the new seasons THREE MONTHS before we do! However, we ALWAYS get a new episode each week once the seasons start in January, so by the end of the season we get the finales in the same week as AMerica (eg. Buffy Season 6 finale was shown 3 days after it premiered in AMerica, but the season opener was shown 3 MONTHS after u lot got in October.) While it may look like we get a better deal, the episodes are often cut so that violence isnt shown, which isnt major but IS patronising, especially as the Buffy is shown at 8pm AND on cable, which isnt very regulated. This year, Willow's spell in the opener was cut (we never saw the snake coming out of the mouth) as was Buffy and Spike's sex in Smashed (much more annoying than the snake thing, though possibly similar as it may have involved a snake going IN a mouth lol) and Spike's attempted rape was hacked at. Most noticeable were the cuts in Villains, were we saw almost nothing of Willow's torture of Warren.She just sort of threatened him, then suddenly he was flames and Buffy was on the scenes saying "What did you *do*?" Hmmm, minor episode cuts but early vid and DVD releases and a new ep every week. I think I'll choose England, Bob. After all, we get *such* great weather. (For you non-ironic Yankees, that was sarcasm. Lol, now who's patronising

)

Stay kooky.

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Tuesday, August 6, 2002 1:23 AM

GUANTES

Must take the point tho.... UK yay! Early DVD release!

UK boo! Less cool extra features.... since they have to be rated here, AND they charge per minute!

Plus I heard that Seasons 1-3 were being re-mastered from the original (and UK releases) for better picture and sound quality. Add to that the prohibitive cost (£44.99($69) S1 £79.99($123) S2+) makes the import seem all too tempting..... still 6 months!

Phil
"I'm not ashamed. It's the computer age. Nerds are in. They're still in, right?" -Willow

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Monday, September 16, 2002 6:35 PM

SILVERSTAR

Quote:
Originally posted by Ness:
Maybe as fans we should start a letter writing campagin. We bother the people at FOX long enough, they'll crack eventually.

Well, considering that it took BMG a few years to take the My So-Called Life DVD petition seriously, we should get started now!

On a positive note, the entire MSCL series is now being released on DVD as a result of fan "persistence" aka endless nagging. If you can believe it, BMG/ABC/Disney thought they wouldn't make any money from a DVD release.

Riiigghhhhtt!!

They greatly underestimated fan OCD. I mean love.

Anyway, sometimes those suits just need a little motivation and encouragement ($$$) from us!

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Monday, September 16, 2002 6:35 PM

SILVERSTAR

Quote:
Originally posted by Ness:
Maybe as fans we should start a letter writing campagin. We bother the people at FOX long enough, they'll crack eventually.

Riiigghhhhtt!!

They greatly underestimated fan OCD. I mean love.

Anyway, sometimes those suits just need a little motivation and encouragement ($$$) from us!

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Monday, September 16, 2002 7:03 PM

SHUGGIE

Quote:
Originally posted by silverstar:
On a positive note, the entire MSCL series is now being released on DVD as a result of fan "persistence" aka endless nagging. If you can believe it, BMG/ABC/Disney thought they wouldn't make any money from a DVD release. Riiigghhhhtt!!

Don't get me started on MSCL DVD set.

It' priced at $115 - which I think is steep but I'd pay it. So I go to order it and the there's a little information page that's specifc to MSCL which tells me that shipping to the UK is $18.

Only when I fill out the order form I get to the shipping costs and I can only choose $0 for the US or $75 for the rest of the world!!

As much as I'd love a copy I'm not paying nearly $200 for it.

I emailed anotheruniverse.com for a clarification and got an automated thing saying they'd reply in 10 working days.

Which come to think of it has past now so maybe I'll go chase that up.

I just wish someone more organized like Amazon had rights to it be anotheruniverse have this exclusive deal.

Shug

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Monday, September 16, 2002 8:11 PM

SILVERSTAR

I agree that $115 is a LOT. I received a $20 discount and free shipping for preordering back in February, but soooo many people that preordered ended up having problems with their orders.

Anotheruniverse, who is the exclusive retailer for the MSCL set, was not prepared for the huge response that this release would provoke among consumers. The first problem that occurred was that we were supposed to pay a $20 deposit and then the balance would be charged to our cards when the product shipped in June. Despite this plan, everyone was charged the additional $79.95 shortly thereafter with not a DVD in sight. This was due to the fact that the credit card processor that AU was using was not able to hold everyone's credit cards for longer than 60 days so we were all charged for the balance 60 days after we approved the balance.

Although that did suck, I thought okay I was going to end up paying the balance eventually so I guess it's okay that they took my money sooner rather than later. Thank goodness I had just gotten paid because some people's credit cards were declined (due to the fact that they thought they had a few more months before the second charge would go through). Then BMG held up the authorization on some stuff. Every single song had to be cleared, otherwise they would have to insert a new song or remove a song that wasn't cleared. People were already freaking out that the set wasn't ready AND AU had already taken their money.

Then things got worse - people started finding out that they had been double charged due to another problem with AU's credit card processor. AU is a relatively small company, so when a couple hundred people started calling every day to ask WTF happened and why they had just been charged yet again, their poor receptionist was trying to handle all of their queries. Needless to say, people were starting to get REALLY irate. Then some people report being charged for a THIRD time. If you want to scare yourself off from ordering this set (just in case I haven't), read the DVD forum at [url] www.mscl.com. I am not a naysayer - I placed my order and am anxiously awaiting the arrival of my DVDs, but just be cautious. If you do order, use an international money order so that you don't get double or triple charged.

That said, AU has obscenely high international shipping rates. They sent out an email offering to sell MSCL t-shirts to all of us for the bargain price of $20 - but the international shipping was $40! We thought that they would use their noggins and think to ship the t-shirts with the DVD sets and save everyone some money, but noooo. I believe that some other people from Europe who ordered the set reported that their shipping costs were quoted as $18.

...Yup, AU has a separate shipping chart just for the MSCL set at [url] http://www.anotheruniverse.com/mscldvd/shipping.html and shipping to the UK is $18. I think that you have to type MSCL in as a coupon to get that price though.

The good news is that one of the good guys :) previewed the discs last week and they are being pressed as we speak so this will in fact move from fantasy to reality soon.

Sorry I got so OT so quickly - but I hope that I answered your question. If you don't buy the set, you can fly to California and we'll have our own MSCL marathon.

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Monday, September 16, 2002 8:11 PM

SILVERSTAR

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Tuesday, September 17, 2002 5:10 AM

SHUGGIE

Silverstar,

Thanks so much for your informative update. Maybe I'll wait a while and let AU get a chance to catch up with themselves.

Thanks for the tip about the coupon. Is that on the site somewhere? Did I miss that?

Anyway thanks.
Paul

Shug

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Thursday, October 3, 2002 11:21 AM

KAYLEE

I'm not gonna gloat. I'm not. Just because I'm in the UK and Season 5 is out this month and Angel Season 3 is out in Dec. and.......you guys are going to smother me with my pillow when i go to sleep, aren't you

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Thursday, October 3, 2002 2:06 PM

LIVINGIMPAIRED

Quote:
Originally posted by Kaylee:
I'm not gonna gloat. I'm not. Just because I'm in the UK and Season 5 is out this month and Angel Season 3 is out in Dec. and.......you guys are going to smother me with my pillow when i go to sleep, aren't you

noooo... I would neeeever do that.

________________

"You still don't get it. It's not about right, not about wrong... It's about Power." —Morph-O-Monster, "Lessons"

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Saturday, October 5, 2002 5:00 PM

BUGDOG

for those interested in modifying their existing DVD player to region free without opening the unit -
http://www.regionfreedvd.net/players.html

keep in mind this is fooling around with what is generally an expensive piece of equipment and that the Buffy DVD sets are hidiously expensive, especially when you factor in shipping, so your results may vary.

Just the same, I have a Venturer DVD player (cheap home theater set I bought at Walmart) that I've modified with a few button pushes on the remote and I'm scoping out DVD sets on ebay :)

Then there's always hacks for the DVD software on your PC that will set it to Region 0 (region free, same diff). Same site has the info.

~bugdog

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