S6- Seeing Red..Holly CRAP, Batman, I just noticed something! (spoilery) by chrisisall

BUFFYVERSE

S6- Seeing Red..Holly CRAP, Batman, I just noticed something! (spoilery)

POSTED BY: CHRISISALL
UPDATED: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 14:14
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 7584
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Friday, April 28, 2006 8:33 AM

Joss and Co. don't want any character HAPPY!!!

*Buffy- yanked from Heaven and miserable enough to shag Spike!
*Xander- broken up with Anya, and seeing HER shag Spike!
*Anya- wanting Xander's gut pulled out!
*Willow- gets to see her girlfriend DIE!!!!
*Tara- well, not happy or unhappy, JUST DEAD!!!!!!!
*Dawn- lost her Mom, Sis, got Sis back broken, trying to hide pimples...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
*Spike- happiest of the lot, no soul and whiskey helps him to be merely sad.

How they manage to work in the funny is almost beyond me...

But still likin' it Chrisisall

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Friday, April 28, 2006 8:54 AM

JOSSISAGOD

I think there's a quote floating around here(it actually pertains to Firefly, but I think it applies here) about how Joss doesn't like people and in every episode Mal will shoot someone we like. I think it's the same with Buffy but with fewer deaths/shootings of the people we like.
Edit: Joss was probably kidding about the not liking people though.

JOSSIS(Most Definitely)AGOD

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Friday, April 28, 2006 10:30 AM

CHRISISALL

I think he's trying to show that life is hard, be we go on (or keep flying, as the case may be) anyway.

Chrisisallbot

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Friday, April 28, 2006 11:46 AM

PLATINUMMONGOOSE

I think the Joss quote was something like "Everyone wants people to be happy, so in every episode I have to remind them that I don't like people. Then Mal shoots someone. Someone we like. And their puppy."

And you think that S6 of Buffy was proof of that?
Let's review, shall we? Not season-by-season, but relationship-by-relationship:
Buffy/Angel--really shouldn't start with these two. They define tragic love, right?
Buffy/Spike--relationship born out of depression, ending in attempted rape
Buffy/Riley--Riley left her for the MILITARY
Xander/Buffy--never got past the Xander-daydream stage
Xander/Willow--ruined more relationships than it helped
Xander/Cordy--see Xander/Willow
Willow/Oz--see Xander/Willow, then Oz leaves later thanks to Veruca
Willow/Tara--Tara is murdered just after they reconcile
Xander/Anya--left Anya at the alter, then Anya dies in the finale
Xander/Faith--one night stand
Buffy/Parker--let's not go there, ok?
Angel/Cordy--she sleeps with his son, becomes big bad, goes comatose, dies, and transcends or something
Cordy/Doyle--Doyle sacrifices himself for the greater good
Gunn/Fred--Angelus manipulation causes breakup (possibly the healthiest breakup on the show)
Fred/Wesley--together for less than ONE EPISODE before Fred is killed and subsequently possessed by Illyria
Mal/Inara--those two really need a swift kick in the hormones.
Zoe/Wash--well... you know.

Ok, so to be fair, here are the relationships that succeeded:
Simon/Kaylee
Willow/Kennedy
Faith/Wood (however long that'll last, knowing Faith)

Seventeen... to three. The vote is in: Joss doesn't like it when people have happy endings.
(end rant)

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Friday, April 28, 2006 11:54 AM

CHRISISALL

Now I'm really depressed.
...plus I learned a spoiler for S7...
(not like I couldn't see it coming, though)

Chrisisall

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Friday, April 28, 2006 12:33 PM

GROUNDED

Quote:
Originally posted by platinummongoose:
The vote is in: Joss doesn't like it when people have happy endings.

It's pretty damn difficult to have a happy ending before the show actually ends...

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Friday, April 28, 2006 1:08 PM

CITIZEN

Joss is a sadist.

I'm sorry, do you have a point?

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
And as you know, these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say.

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Friday, April 28, 2006 1:45 PM

MSCKAREN

Quote:
Originally posted by platinummongoose:

Ok, so to be fair, here are the relationships that succeeded:
Simon/Kaylee
Willow/Kennedy
Faith/Wood (however long that'll last, knowing Faith)
(end rant)

I think that's just because we haven't seen these stories through. All relationships end unhappily - either through breakup or death unless you fall in love, never have a bad time, and die together. That's gotta be rare ...

None of my relationships have ended "happily every after", have yours?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Appears they've cancelled the show and we're still here. What does that make us?"
"Big damn junkies, Sir!"
"Ain't we just."
http://karenallover.blogspot.com/

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Friday, April 28, 2006 1:47 PM

FOLLOWMAL

Ok, Chrisisall, I know I haven't gotten back to you about Dune yet, but I thought I'd let you know I've q'd Buffy into the cycle on my Netflix.

Can't wait to get started and see what I think.

Oh, and I really will watch Dune and catch up with you.

Done with taxes and politikin... had my fill.

Need some melange for sure.

Dianeneedsatranceisall

"You hold. Hold 'til I get back." Mal

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Friday, April 28, 2006 5:00 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by FollowMal:
Ok, Chrisisall, I know I haven't gotten back to you about Dune yet, but I thought I'd let you know I've q'd Buffy into the cycle on my Netflix.

Can't wait to get started and see what I think.

Wouldn't it be cheaper to buy the Chosen Collection? I seen it for $178 on the net somewhere... Pricegrabber.com would take you there.

Gonna watch the Long version, or the theatrical Dune first?

About Buffy, it took me over a year to get to season 6, I kept getting to certain points and saying to myself "That's it! It's not like it used to be (season 2 and 3), I quit!" But I finally broke down and bought the whole thing- I just had to see how it ends, I feel like I know these people now.
And it takes some of the edge off not having enough Firefly

.

Later, D.

Chrisisall, confirmed Buffy fan in the end

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Friday, April 28, 2006 5:04 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by msckaren:

None of my relationships have ended "happily every after", have yours?

Relationships are a road, not a destination. Been with my wife 22 years now; I'm amongst the few and lucky, it seems.

One woman Chrisisall

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Friday, April 28, 2006 5:07 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Joss is a sadist.

I'm sorry, do you have a point?

Jus' being silly as if I've only just noticed.

Lots of

's on this here thread...

Chrisisallgonna beat Joss up if he kills Wonder Woman

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Saturday, April 29, 2006 12:40 AM

CITIZEN

Wonder Woman falls in love with superman, who is impaled on a shaft of kryptonite by Lex Leaver. She goes into a fit of rage, murdering Lex Leaver, before going on the run from the police.

One officer catches up with her, but instead of turning her in they fall in love.

She kills him accidentally in a fit of passion.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
And as you know, these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say.

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Saturday, April 29, 2006 4:10 AM

CHRISISALL

...no.....No....NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

Chrisisscared

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Saturday, April 29, 2006 3:49 PM

LILKAYLEE29

Quote:
Originally posted by platinummongoose:
I think the Joss quote was something like "Everyone wants people to be happy, so in every episode I have to remind them that I don't like people. Then Mal shoots someone. Someone we like. And their puppy."

And you think that S6 of Buffy was proof of that?
Let's review, shall we? Not season-by-season, but relationship-by-relationship:
Buffy/Angel--really shouldn't start with these two. They define tragic love, right?
Buffy/Spike--relationship born out of depression, ending in attempted rape
Buffy/Riley--Riley left her for the MILITARY
Xander/Buffy--never got past the Xander-daydream stage
Xander/Willow--ruined more relationships than it helped
Xander/Cordy--see Xander/Willow
Willow/Oz--see Xander/Willow, then Oz leaves later thanks to Veruca
Willow/Tara--Tara is murdered just after they reconcile
Xander/Anya--left Anya at the alter, then Anya dies in the finale
Xander/Faith--one night stand
Buffy/Parker--let's not go there, ok?
Angel/Cordy--she sleeps with his son, becomes big bad, goes comatose, dies, and transcends or something
Cordy/Doyle--Doyle sacrifices himself for the greater good
Gunn/Fred--Angelus manipulation causes breakup (possibly the healthiest breakup on the show)
Fred/Wesley--together for less than ONE EPISODE before Fred is killed and subsequently possessed by Illyria
Mal/Inara--those two really need a swift kick in the hormones.
Zoe/Wash--well... you know.

Ok, so to be fair, here are the relationships that succeeded:
Simon/Kaylee
Willow/Kennedy
Faith/Wood (however long that'll last, knowing Faith)

Seventeen... to three. The vote is in: Joss doesn't like it when people have happy endings.
(end rant)

Well Done!! I agree with everything that you said, except I didn't think Joss should have put Willow and Kennedy together in the first place. Kennedy was annoying. Plus it seemed rushed, kinda forced upon Willow's character to have a somewhat happy ending considering what she went through in season 6 and Buffy & Xander losing both Spike and Anya in the finale. It's almost like he had to have at least one main character still in a happy relationship by the end.

One Day
One Mission
One Army of Browncoats
On June 23, We Aim To Misbehave!
Can't Stop The Signal...
You Can't Take The Sky From Me!
We've done the Impossible getting Serenity made, and that makes us mighty, On June 23, watch us do it again!!
Browncoats Unite!!

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Saturday, April 29, 2006 4:05 PM

PLATINUMMONGOOSE

As msckaren said, though, we haven't seen what happens after the shows/movie ends. We don't know if Willow and Kennedy stay together, or if Fred finds her way through the Illyria persona, or if Simon and Kaylee work out (or survive, knowing Joss--note main thread topic).

We can hope, though. We can hope whatever we want. Personally, I always have been pro-Xander/Willow, so I couldn't care less about Kennedy. Buffy and Angel will likely end up together one way or another, 'cause that's what the fans inevitably want, I think.

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Saturday, April 29, 2006 4:30 PM

AMYEL

Joss doesn't seem that invested in Buffy/Angel himself. In his commentary for Chosen he kind of hinted that Buffy was really blowing him off but was trying to be nice about it. The whole Buffy/Angel thing is apparently very profitable for 20th Century FOX so I don't think he could ever take away that hope for good, but my feeling is that in Joss's own mind, Buffy hasn't met her real tru luv 4-eva. Hell, the series ended when Buffy was 23...she's not a spinster yet! Although her settling down with a 'normal' human is never gonna happen, I think that one is pretty clear.

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Monday, May 1, 2006 5:54 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by amyel:
Although her settling down with a 'normal' human is never gonna happen, I think that one is pretty clear.

Way I see it, Reilly will break up with that roadie bimbo he's with and get back with Buffy.

It is a dream I have Chrisisall

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Wednesday, May 3, 2006 12:12 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST

Joss the modern mysanthropist...

Actually if anything this side of Joss is maybe too prevalent in his work. There was a thread a while back about relationships and how Joss deals with them and all in all they become too predictable and conversely detrimental to the intent.

So you start to not care about a relationship forming because you just know it'll turn out badly.

The
Somnambulist

www.cirqus.com

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Wednesday, May 3, 2006 4:43 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:

So you start to not care about a relationship forming because you just know it'll turn out badly.

Yeah, interesting point.
But that's why I can hope for Buffy and Riley, the door hasn't been entirely closed on that one (He and Buffy still live

).

On a blasphemous note: A part of me is fine with no more Serenity movies, if that's the case; I kinda like the thought of Kaylee and Simon and Mal and Inara living to have long relationships. Don't get me wrong, I WANT more movies, but if they don't get made, not seeing more relationships get cut off or fail will be my small consolation prize...

Don't tell anyone I said that Chrisisall

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Wednesday, May 3, 2006 5:25 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST

Yeah I was just talking to a buddy at the weekend about that - and both of us feel similarly to you Big C

I't kinda how we both felt about TRON and the fact should anyone remake update whatever it'd maybe ruin the joy of the first one... Lets face it sequels rarely work and trilogies even less so, that said it is sad to think that's your lot in terms of Serenity - of course were a sequel made I'd be there straight away and it'd be my second favourite film ever after the first Serenity - but in my heart of hearts I love the fact that now it's a true gem of cinema - and I'm full of love for it being so singular and unique.

...and yeah you're right Riley/Buffy... they aint dead so there's hope right... always hope :)

The
Somnambulist

www.cirqus.com

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Wednesday, May 3, 2006 6:01 AM

CHRISISALL

Back in early '05, I was lookin' for a science fiction-y series to buy (I had a gift certificate), and saw Firefly on the shelves. Knowing nothing about it, save for a hazy momory of spaceships and barfights courtesy of a distracted viewing of Train Job in '02, I got on the net, and gleaned great reviews of it, and that a movie of it was being made as I read.
"Finally!' I thought, "A show that has a finale!"
Little did I know the effects it would have on me...

I just saw the finale of Voyager on the Borg Collection that came out here (which I never saw before).
I'm fast coming up on Buffy's finale in S7 (which I've never seen).

We don't get much closure in RL, I really appreciate it in fiction.

If only Angel had it

.

Chrisisall, closure-guy

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Wednesday, May 3, 2006 7:20 AM

NXOJKT

Quote:
Originally posted by platinummongoose:
I think the Joss quote was something like "Everyone wants people to be happy, so in every episode I have to remind them that I don't like people. Then Mal shoots someone. Someone we like. And their puppy."

And you think that S6 of Buffy was proof of that?
Let's review, shall we? Not season-by-season, but relationship-by-relationship:
Buffy/Angel--really shouldn't start with these two. They define tragic love, right?
Buffy/Spike--relationship born out of depression, ending in attempted rape
Buffy/Riley--Riley left her for the MILITARY
Xander/Buffy--never got past the Xander-daydream stage
Xander/Willow--ruined more relationships than it helped
Xander/Cordy--see Xander/Willow
Willow/Oz--see Xander/Willow, then Oz leaves later thanks to Veruca
Willow/Tara--Tara is murdered just after they reconcile
Xander/Anya--left Anya at the alter, then Anya dies in the finale
Xander/Faith--one night stand
Buffy/Parker--let's not go there, ok?
Angel/Cordy--she sleeps with his son, becomes big bad, goes comatose, dies, and transcends or something
Cordy/Doyle--Doyle sacrifices himself for the greater good
Gunn/Fred--Angelus manipulation causes breakup (possibly the healthiest breakup on the show)
Fred/Wesley--together for less than ONE EPISODE before Fred is killed and subsequently possessed by Illyria
Mal/Inara--those two really need a swift kick in the hormones.
Zoe/Wash--well... you know.

Ok, so to be fair, here are the relationships that succeeded:
Simon/Kaylee
Willow/Kennedy
Faith/Wood (however long that'll last, knowing Faith)

Seventeen... to three. The vote is in: Joss doesn't like it when people have happy endings.
(end rant)

That's not to mention Giles and Jenny Calendar, which ended with Angelus brutaly murdering Jenny... Giles and Buffy's mom having a one night, drug induced thing that just made everyone uncomfortable.... Wesley and Lilah and their disfunctional thing that ended with Angelus killing her and well, Wesley pretty much had no happiness, ever, with anyone, in any relationship, for more than 5 minutes.

Think about Wesley's history... he loses control of his slayer, Faith... he almost starts something with Cordelia, and he's so unimpressive that when they meet again on Angel, she doesn't remember him... he falls for Fred, only to see her end up with Gunn... he thinks he's doing the right thing by Connor, only to cause Angel's son to be kidnapped into another dimension... Angel tries to kill him... the whole Lilah affair...he has a horrible relationship with his father, where he has to kill someone who he thinks is his father... he finally gets Fred, only to have her die quickly ("Sunshine, you are my sunshi--- splat, blood on face)... He has the disfunctional thing with Ilyria, before finally, mercifully, being killed. Joss hates Wesley.

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Wednesday, May 3, 2006 7:35 AM

CHRISISALL

Suddenly, I feel the need to watch an episode of Touched By An Angel.

Chrisisall

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Wednesday, May 3, 2006 7:58 AM

AMYEL

Joss LOVES Alexis. Alexis is even the godfather to one of his kids.

When he loves an actor, he gives them more and more to do, which usually means suffering.

Amy Acker is another one of his favorites, if you can't tell. ;-)

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Wednesday, May 3, 2006 7:58 AM

EMBERS

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:

So you start to not care about a relationship forming because you just know it'll turn out badly.

Yeah, interesting point.
But that's why I can hope for Buffy and Riley, the door hasn't been entirely closed on that one (He and Buffy still live).

I was hoping for Buffy to end up hooking up with Xander... now that Anya is dead, and Buffy is older and wiser...
I thought she might want the good guy who always stayed there for her.

Quote:

On a blasphemous note: A part of me is fine with no more Serenity movies, if that's the case; I kinda like the thought of Kaylee and Simon and Mal and Inara living to have long relationships. Don't get me wrong, I WANT more movies, but if they don't get made, not seeing more relationships get cut off or fail will be my small consolation prize...

Don't tell anyone I said that Chrisisall

too blasphemous for me!
Joss can kill everyone off one after another, and I want to be along for the ride....

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Wednesday, May 3, 2006 8:05 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by embers:

Joss can kill everyone off one after another, and I want to be along for the ride....

Oh, I'll be there too, just sayin' is all.

Joss follower Chrisisall

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Wednesday, May 3, 2006 8:13 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by embers:

I was hoping for Buffy to end up hooking up with Xander... now that Anya is dead

What? I haven't finished season 7 yet...Anya DIES!?!?!?!

Oh, the pain! I been spoilerized!!!

(Just kidding, came across that nugget some time ago...)

And she might end up with Xander, who knows? *CoughJoss*

I just felt that she and Reilly were an outstanding match.

Side question: Em, which do you like better, Buffy or Angel?

Chrisisall, on S7, ep 8

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Wednesday, May 3, 2006 8:49 AM

EMBERS

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Oh, the pain! I been spoilerized!!!

OMG! I SPOILED CHRISISALL!!!
I'M GOING TO THE SPECIAL HELL!
JOSS WILL NEVER SPEAK TO ME AGAIN...

OH NO OH NO OH NO OH NO

Quote:

(Just kidding, came across that nugget some time ago...)

And she might end up with Xander, who knows? *CoughJoss*

I just felt that she and Reilly were an outstanding match.

Side question: Em, which do you like better, Buffy or Angel?

Chrisisall, on S7, ep 8

whew... dodged a bullet there! LOL

I by far preferred Buffy....
of course I wasn't a big fan of tall dark and brooding when he was on Buffy,
I kinda loved Wes & Lorne, but I was never a big Cordy fan (she scared me too much in that first BtVS episode when she ordered Willow away from the water fountain)

Buffy always was funnier, brighter, with more compelling metaphors, and more interesting character development
(well, not counting Firefly you understand)

JMPO (as always)

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Wednesday, May 3, 2006 10:34 AM

NXOJKT

Quote:
Originally posted by amyel:
Joss LOVES Alexis. Alexis is even the godfather to one of his kids.

When he loves an actor, he gives them more and more to do, which usually means suffering.

Amy Acker is another one of his favorites, if you can't tell. ;-)

I'm guessing that same rationale also has a lot to do with what happened with Willow on season 6 of Buffy.

Wesley is actually my favorite character out of either show. The changes that he went through from being prissy and stuck up on Buffy, to being a bumbling demon hunter (ahem, Rogue Demon Hunter) on season 1 of Angel ("And I will take that inch!"), to the dark and brooding of the whole "the father will kill the son" part of the show, to the unrequited love, to the briefly having the love, to the hollowness of losing Fred. And so much of that is because of the range and abilities of Alexis. I've been shocked that he hasn't been able to really make it into mainstream movies, because I really think he is a tremendous actor. And judging by the deleted ballet scene in Summer Glau's episode, the guy is funny as hell.

This same rationale, of torturing the characters of the actors he loves makes me cringe when I think about how bad things would have gotten for one Malcolm Reynolds.

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Wednesday, May 3, 2006 10:41 AM

DESKTOPHIPPIE

Quote:

OMG! I SPOILED CHRISISALL!!!
I'M GOING TO THE SPECIAL HELL!
JOSS WILL NEVER SPEAK TO ME AGAIN...

OH NO OH NO OH NO OH NO

Joss speaks to you??? Really??? Tell him I said hi!

Desktop Hippie: at one with the 'verse

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Wednesday, May 3, 2006 10:52 AM

EMBERS

Quote:
Originally posted by DesktopHippie:
Quote:

OMG! I SPOILED CHRISISALL!!!
I'M GOING TO THE SPECIAL HELL!
JOSS WILL NEVER SPEAK TO ME AGAIN...

OH NO OH NO OH NO OH NO

Joss speaks to you??? Really??? Tell him I said hi!

Desktop Hippie: at one with the 'verse

LOL
no only in my dreams...
and on one wonderful day at the Wizard World Convention in Chicago:

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Wednesday, May 3, 2006 10:57 AM

EMBERS

Quote:
Originally posted by nxojkt:
Quote:
Originally posted by amyel:
Joss LOVES Alexis. Alexis is even the godfather to one of his kids.

When he loves an actor, he gives them more and more to do, which usually means suffering.

Amy Acker is another one of his favorites, if you can't tell. ;-)

I'm guessing that same rationale also has a lot to do with what happened with Willow on season 6 of Buffy.

Wesley is actually my favorite character out of either show. The changes that he went through from being prissy and stuck up on Buffy, to being a bumbling demon hunter (ahem, Rogue Demon Hunter) on season 1 of Angel ("And I will take that inch!"), ... And so much of that is because of the range and abilities of Alexis. I've been shocked that he hasn't been able to really make it into mainstream movies, because I really think he is a tremendous actor.

I really agree that Wesley's development was one of the best and most exciting things about Ats,
and wouldn't have been possible if Alexis wasn't so amazingly versitile.

Have you seen him on Alyson's sitcom: 'How I Met Your Mother'?
too funny!

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Wednesday, May 3, 2006 10:57 AM

DESKTOPHIPPIE

See, this is why it's a pain living in Ireland. Joss never comes to Ireland. The only guys who ever visit are Lorne and Groo! Oh, and the beautiful Amber Benson, who visited once, got horribly sick and will probobly never come back ... *sigh*

Next time you see Joss, tell him to come visit us, will ya? Oh, and I'd be extremely grateful if he could persuade Nicky (Xander) to come along too ...

*wanders off to a happy place*

Desktop Hippie: at one with the 'verse

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Friday, May 19, 2006 3:21 PM

SUZFROMOZ

Quote:

And judging by the deleted ballet scene in Summer Glau's episode, the guy is funny as hell.

please explain? what am I missing??

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Friday, May 19, 2006 3:21 PM

SUZFROMOZ

Quote:

And judging by the deleted ballet scene in Summer Glau's episode, the guy is funny as hell.

oops, sorry, double post

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Sunday, May 21, 2006 7:57 PM

SASHASRM

So much to say:

Okay, there is no way to say Willow/Oz didn't work but Willow/Kennedy do. Apples and Oranges. We have no clue what will happen to this relationship. Hopefully that Willow will come to her senses, find a much better woman, or re-embrace her hetero and go find Oz.

Faith and Robin: this will not last. but it won't be doomed either. i think he's the man that finally makes her have some faith in men (he he) and then they both move on.

Chrisisall: You're old! You're older than me! I think I love you right now!

"Occasionally I'm callous and strange."

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Tuesday, May 23, 2006 10:06 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by sashasrm:
You're old! You're older than me! I think I love you right now!

What, for beating you to this world?

I'll beat ya to the next, too. Chrisisall

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Tuesday, May 23, 2006 11:23 AM

RUGBUG

Quote:
Originally posted by nxojkt:
Quote:
Originally posted by platinummongoose:

Gunn/Fred--Angelus manipulation causes breakup (possibly the healthiest breakup on the show)

Wesley and Lilah and their disfunctional thing that ended with Angelus killing her

Help me here...Angelus broke Fred/Gunn up? I must be getting old because I don't remember that. I thought the catalyst for that break-up was the Gunn murdering the professor. Both the fact that he could murder a human and the fact that he took Fred's power from her by doing it (she didn't ask him to "save" her, he decided to do it on his own).

Also, I thought Cordy killed Lilah. It looked like Angelus did, but that wasn't the case. And then Wes hacked off her head b/c he didn't want her to come back as a vamp, but she wouldn't have anyway.

Old or still master of my senses? You tell me.

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Friday, June 9, 2006 5:47 PM

DTUCK

Quote:
Originally posted by rugbug:
Quote:
Originally posted by nxojkt:
Quote:
Originally posted by platinummongoose:

Gunn/Fred--Angelus manipulation causes breakup (possibly the healthiest breakup on the show)

Help me here...Angelus broke Fred/Gunn up? I must be getting old because I don't remember that. I thought the catalyst for that break-up was the Gunn murdering the professor. Both the fact that he could murder a human and the fact that he took Fred's power from her by doing it (she didn't ask him to "save" her, he decided to do it on his own).

Also, I thought Cordy killed Lilah. It looked like Angelus did, but that wasn't the case. And then Wes hacked off her head b/c he didn't want her to come back as a vamp, but she wouldn't have anyway.

Old or still master of my senses? You tell me.

You got the Cordy/Lilah thing dead-to-rights, but I think what mongoose meant about Fred/Gunn was that in the edpisode-arc where Angel, Inc. removed Angel's soul to see what Angelus knew of The Beast, he used that time to manipulate/cajole/freak-out Gunn and Fred concerning the inner workings of their relationship. This was after the episode where the professor was murdered, and that was the initial catalyst, so they may have broken up eventually anyhow... but an evil, twisted fiend wearing the face of someone they trusted, telling them that their relationship was doomed certainly didn't help.

__________________________________

The best way to get rid of temptation is to yield to it.

- Oscar Wilde

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Wednesday, June 14, 2006 2:14 PM

MPHILLIPS

Quote:
Originally posted by nxojkt:
Quote:
Originally posted by amyel:
Joss LOVES Alexis. Alexis is even the godfather to one of his kids.

When he loves an actor, he gives them more and more to do, which usually means suffering.

Amy Acker is another one of his favorites, if you can't tell. ;-)

I'm guessing that same rationale also has a lot to do with what happened with Willow on season 6 of Buffy.

Wesley is actually my favorite character out of either show. The changes that he went through from being prissy and stuck up on Buffy, to being a bumbling demon hunter (ahem, Rogue Demon Hunter) on season 1 of Angel ("And I will take that inch!"), to the dark and brooding of the whole "the father will kill the son" part of the show, to the unrequited love, to the briefly having the love, to the hollowness of losing Fred. And so much of that is because of the range and abilities of Alexis. I've been shocked that he hasn't been able to really make it into mainstream movies, because I really think he is a tremendous actor. And judging by the deleted ballet scene in Summer Glau's episode, the guy is funny as hell.

This same rationale, of torturing the characters of the actors he loves makes me cringe when I think about how bad things would have gotten for one Malcolm Reynolds.

Not many people can fake a convincing hamstring pull (or would want to)..what a talented guy...

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