New York slayer continuity question... by chrisisall

BUFFYVERSE

New York slayer continuity question...

POSTED BY: CHRISISALL
UPDATED: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 10:03
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VIEWED: 3888
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Thursday, July 6, 2006 9:37 AM

In Fool For Love, Spike tells Buffy that all slayers have a death wish, and that they welcome death as a release, especially like when- he cites the New York slayer here- they have nothing to keep them here.
But didn't she (as we found out later) have a son to 'keep her here'?
And what about the Boxer Rebellion slayer? She asks him to tell her mom she's sorry. (Side note, that slayer would have HAD him if not for the explosion just outside- the concussion moved them both just enough for her to hesitate, and give Spike the moment...)
Was Spike just making it up as he went to sound all-knowing to Buffy, you know, keying into his particular perception of her psyche?

Just an idea.

Bloody Chrisisall

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Thursday, July 6, 2006 9:45 AM

RUGBUG

Hey Chris,

I think the deathwish isn't necessarily always present, but at a particular moment during a fight, the slayer just gives up and no longer wants to continue. Just the few seconds of wanting it all to end are enough to drop their guard. And that's how most of them die.

You can see this in Buffy in Season 6. She just gets lucky enough to still win each fight, but her heart really isn't in it and she wouldn't mind terribly if it did all end.

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Thursday, July 6, 2006 9:51 AM

CHRISISALL

Oddly, in season six (Still so proud to have seen 'em all!!), that sense of uncaring seemed to make her less likely to die, for me. No panicky over-thought mistakes in fights, just her getting it done.
It was actually kind of unsettling to watch.
But that was the point.

Potentially Chrisisall

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Thursday, July 6, 2006 10:21 AM

ARCADIA

I think Spike was right about the slayers wanting to die, if only just for that moment. Especially since Buffy came to him after a fight were she nearly died, trying to gain insight into how not to die... if that sentence made any sense at all. Clearly, Buffy doesn't want to go, but for just that one second, maybe she was ready to stop fighting, and then she got stabbed... The attachments didn't matter.

Or mayne this is another statement on created families. A son and a mother... these are relationship you're born with. Buffy created her own relationships, her own family, and maybe that's what's given her something to hang onto.

Or maybe the NY Slayer and the Boxer Slayer didn't actually like their families. NY Slayer didn't really want her kid. Boxer Slayer feels regret for letting her mom down as she dies, but doesn't really want to see her mom when alive...

Maybe Joss just wanted to give the Boxer Slayer something poignant to say as she died, so that we'd find it sad when her words are lost, and the "son of the NY slayer" thing was decided on later, when the NY Slayer was so incredibly cool. I mean... she was, in the fifteen second we saw her, she was awesome.

Or maybe I am reading to much into this.

Certianly, though, I am rambling.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Objects in Space"

River: It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think...
http://www.stillflying.net/ <-- Check it out!

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Thursday, July 6, 2006 11:49 AM

EMBERS

actually in the moment of exhaustian, or whatever in a fight...when one feels like letting go,
it could be that the child seems like an extra burden,
or the Mother is just one more reason to feel too much pressure....
I mean: love does keep you in the world,
but sometimes guilt adds to the desire to leave it.

But it isn't a discussion the Buffy writers would always explore, it really was just part of Buffy's S6 disconnect and depression....

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Thursday, July 6, 2006 1:37 PM

CYBERSNARK

Maybe the fight with Spike happened at a time when Nikki had actually given some rational thought as to what kind of mother she would be, and had realized that, with her around, the kid wouldn't see his fifth birthday.

Maybe she let Spike kill her, so he'd have no reason to go after Robin.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Thursday, July 6, 2006 4:46 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Arcadia:

Or maybe I am reading to much into this.

I don't believe it's possible to read too much into Joss' work. Everything he does has so many layers and meanings.

Joss is OUR Shakespear.
And no, I don't think that's an overstatement.

A Reaver by any other name Chrisisall

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Friday, July 7, 2006 6:21 AM

22CLAWS

Entirely pointy.

Strictly speaking, I don't think slayers have a death wish. I think they do, at times, crave battle. In battle they have feelings of control and exhileration they rarely find in their regular lives. Unfortunatly, the feeling of control is ultimately illusion. As, in battles to the death with demons sometimes things spin rather impressively out of control. I don't think they're trying to die. I think they get to a point were in battle is the only time they feel alive.

22

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Monday, July 10, 2006 5:29 AM

GROOSALUGG

Or, if you want the actual, practical reason, it's because when "Fool for Love" was written, Nikki having a son wasn't even a glimmer in the writers' eyes. They didn't decide that Robin would be her son until about halfway thru S7.

Probably not the answer you're looking for, tho...

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Monday, July 10, 2006 5:33 AM

CHRISISALL

But wait, isn't Buffy just a re-telling of actual people and events?

Chrisisall

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Monday, July 10, 2006 7:25 PM

GROOSALUGG

Just watched "Lies My Parents Told Me" again tonight, and Spike has a line near the end of it (to Wood): "See, unlike you, I had a mother that loved me back."

So, just add that to the mix and stir...

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Tuesday, July 11, 2006 5:13 AM

CHRISISALL

That is so cold (and so Spike).
But in a twisted way, maybe he's trying to make Robin feel better?
Nahh.

Don't f**k w/Spike Chrisisall

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Tuesday, July 11, 2006 5:30 AM

RUGBUG

Quote:
Originally posted by Groosalugg:
Spike has a line near the end of it (to Wood): "See, unlike you, I had a mother that loved me back."

To me that line was basically, 'I didn't kill your mother, she let herself die. She didn't love you enough to want to continue living.'

Pretty mean, but probably what Robin needed to hear to begin placing blame on the correct person.

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Tuesday, July 11, 2006 6:16 AM

SIGMANUNKI

@Chrisisall:

When you watch season 7 (I believe), there is a flash back where Robin's mothers says to him something along the lines of, "The mission is all that matters."

----
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Tuesday, July 11, 2006 6:41 AM

CHRISISALL

Thanks, you guys all rock.

Impressed with the detail Chrisisall

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Tuesday, July 11, 2006 6:54 PM

BABYWITHTHEPOWER

There have been alot of inconsistantcies though. Correct me if I'm wrong, but when Spike was first introduced, there was a scene where Angel was trying to trick Spike into thinking he was still evil but Spike caught on. If I remember correctly, Spike's line was "...you were my sire, my Yoda." and every reference after that said that Dru had made Spike.

I'll be in my bunk.

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Wednesday, July 12, 2006 4:25 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by babywiththepower:
"...you were my sire, my Yoda."

Dru made him, but Angelus taught him, gave him a level of evil training Dru could never have; any vampire can make a vampire, only Angellus could make a Spike.

So you see, what he said was true, from a certain point of view...

Obi-Wan Chrisisall

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Wednesday, July 12, 2006 9:13 AM

RUGBUG

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by babywiththepower:
"...you were my sire, my Yoda."
Dru made him, but Angelus taught him, gave him a level of evil training Dru could never have; any vampire can make a vampire, only Angellus could make a Spike.

So you see, what he said was true, from a certain point of view...

Obi-Wan Chrisisall

Ah, but babywithpower is right. ME changed it from the original Angel-as-Spike's-sire to Dru-as-Spike's-sire. You can fanwank the first comment to fit, as you did, but it is still an inconsistency. And one that bugs me.

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Wednesday, July 12, 2006 9:17 AM

CHRISISALL

Yeah, well, just because you and B are right about it, doesn't mean I have to acknowledge it.

Chrisisall, in the Nile

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Wednesday, July 12, 2006 9:40 AM

ORMAYBEMIDGETS

I've read so many times that Joss had always wanted meant for Dru to have made Spike. He said that when Spike called Angel his sire, it basically meant the same thing, as Angel is Spike's grandsire. I always thought that this was just back tracking, but apparently Joss has been pretty adamant that this is true.

http://www.restlessbtvs.com/trivia/203-3515-my-yoda/

-
DB: Doesn't exactly fit the thug in the profile alley. Wait, what?

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Wednesday, July 12, 2006 9:54 AM

WTE

As long as we're talking about inconsistencies, I've got a question...

In season one of Buffy, the Master says something like, "Angel was the most vicious creature I have ever met... he was to sit at my right hand when the time came," or somesuch. Then in Angel, there are flashbacks indicating Angel wanted nothing to do with the Master and split... I'm sure this has been covered before, I was just wondering if there was an explanation. mmkay.

HONKS

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Wednesday, July 12, 2006 10:03 AM

ORMAYBEMIDGETS

The Master just wanted him to sit at his right hand. "He was to..." as in, "I wanted him to, but he didn't." In the context we assume it's "I wanted him to, but he didn't because he turned all good." But after watching both shows, we see it's "I wanted him to, but he didn't want to."

-
DB: Doesn't exactly fit the thug in the profile alley. Wait, what?

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