Worst aspects of Buffy: the entire series. by chrisisall

The first and last seasons...

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Friday, January 19, 2007 1:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by reginaroadie:

Season 2 or 3:
Willow: I cheated on you with Xander.
Oz: That's OK, I forgive you.

Season 5:
Oz: I was tempted by an evil female werewolf and had a one night stand during a full moon.
Willow: Fuck you, I'm going dyke now.

Does this make sense to you? That it's OK for Willow to cheat on Oz, but Oz loses control once and she suddenly up and decides to switch teams? Seems a bit hypocritical.

In fairness that's not exactly what happened.

Willow cheated on Oz, sure. And Oz was very, very mad about it. He did forgive her, but it took a bit of time - an episode or so of her grovelling and him avoiding her until he could figure things out. After that he decided that he still loved her and was willing to trust her. Happy days.

In season 4, Oz cheated on Willow. Willow was just as hurt, but crucially she never considered breaking up with him. She only ever considered casting a spell to get her rival out of the way. It was Oz who decided to leave, because he realised his wolf side was out of control and he was a danger to others, especially to Willow.

That's the real problem - Oz left Willow. Immediatly. With barely a goodbye, nothing to say when he'd be back and no word from him at all while he was gone. For months. And Willow mourned and cried and cast the funny spell that made 'Something Blue' such a joy to watch and eventually started to heal. And then she fell in love with someone else.

She hadn't rejected Oz. He'd rejected her. He did it for the best of reasons, but people don't stand still. As Willow herself said (and this is purely from memory so the quote may be slightly off) "I wrote you so many letters, but I didn't have anywhere to send them. I just... I couldn't live like that." She never stopped loving Oz, she just started loving Tara in the meantime.

As for "switching teams" the writers had hinted for a while that Willow might not be as straight as she thought she was. My all time favourite being this exchange in 'Dopplegangland'

Willow: (looking at vampWillow in the bookcage) It's horrible! That's me as a vampire? I'm so evil! And... skanky! (quietly to Buffy) And I think I'm kind of gay!
Buffy: Willow, just remember, a vampire's personality has nothing to do with the person it was.
Angel: Well, actually... [Buffy glares at him]... that's a good point.

Hee hee hee!

Graphics available at www.desktophippie.com

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Friday, January 19, 2007 2:11 AM

1)that it had to end at all...though I've made peace with it, I'll always long for a live-action continuation in some form.

2)that it had to end without the slightest glimmer of hope of a Buffy/Xander union.

3)TV movies and animated series being dead in the water.

4)Kennedy wasn't killed off. Rona surviving too.

5)That Buffy never found out that Connor existed. That could've been an INTERESTING conversation, since she and Angel once talked about him being unable to have them...and for her to find out about Darla of all people being the mother.

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Friday, January 19, 2007 2:27 AM

CHARLIETHEBLOODY

Quote:
Originally posted by jwhedonaddict:
2)that it had to end without the slightest glimmer of hope of a Buffy/Xander union.

have you heard the rumours about the comics?

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"I'm an artist, with an e and a beret."

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Friday, January 19, 2007 2:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by jwhedonaddict:

2)that it had to end without the slightest glimmer of hope of a Buffy/Xander union.

My GOD! I thought I was the ONLY ONE!!!

Seriously, I thought the B/X shippers had all given up in despair years ago. I would have loved to have seen Xander get the girl in the last season. It would have completed his story nicely.

EDIT: What rumour about the comic? What rumour about the comic?? What rumour about the comic??? WHAT RUMOUR ABOUT THE COMIC???? TELL ME!!!!

Graphics available at www.desktophippie.com

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Friday, January 19, 2007 2:50 AM

I'll second that one!!!

I used to be so obsessed with Buffy/Angel it took me literally until "Into the Woods" (Xander's speech to Buffy) to get on board with Riley. Enjoyed Spike's attraction/love for her, but I can't remember ever wanting them to actually go there. One night stand, sure, but not so much couple-y. I can't even remember at what point I started rooting for Xander, but believe me when I say it's an unwavering thing for me from here on out. There will never be better match for her than Xander!!!

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Friday, January 19, 2007 5:16 AM

Well, I'd always fancied Xander myself, so that meant I was interested in him from the start. For me, I thought it would be great for Buffy to end up with the genuinely nice, soft hearted, normal guy. I'm a sucker for good guys that way. The bad boy thing does nothing for me.

Which brings me back to an earlier post about Xander being "immasculated." I don't think he was. I can understand how it could seem that way since of the main four characters he was the gentlest and the most emotional - unusual for a guy in any show! That doesn't make him weak or imasculated, it just makes him a gentle, emotional guy. Those very qualities are what helped him reach out to Willow in season six when physical strength and magical power failed.

Graphics available at www.desktophippie.com

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Friday, January 19, 2007 6:44 AM

CHARLIETHEBLOODY

comic rumour spoiler (if it's true)

Select to view spoiler:

ok, well I heard this on the uk site, and I'm not sure where it came from, but someone said buffy and xander get together (or are already together? though that would seem a bit quick) in the comics.

lots of people were like, NOO, THAT'S HORRIBLE, and I must admit, I had a moment of wtf? but thinking about it it makes perfect sense, they've been through so much together.

someone said that the idea is that now buffy's mature enough to be with a guy who would be good for her, which I think is really sweet... I could see them being together a long time, in a solid, stable way

but we'll have to wait and see, it might be complete rubbish made up by someone...

I also don't think xander was emasculated, it's not emasculating to be sweet and sensitive (most of the time, I mean he had his testosterone fueled moments). the idea that to be a man you don't have to be all grr is an important one, and part of the equality the show is sposed to be about...

--------------------------------------
"I'm an artist, with an e and a beret."

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Friday, January 19, 2007 9:23 AM

Yeah, Xander did have his grr moments. After all, his first reaction when Spike slept with Anya was to reach for an axe - and this was after he'd left her at the altar on their wedding day!

Oh please let those comic spoilers be true! Not only would it be seriously cool, but I really want Xander to have the happy ending! After all, he had a seriously sucky childhood. He deserves it!

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Friday, January 19, 2007 10:53 AM

It took me awhile to accept the thought of anyone but Angel being with Buffy, even though personally, my favorite character overall is Xander (with Willow a close second). He's always been the type of guy I'd choose for myself, but for Buffy, I was into the whole soap opera-y romanticism of her relationship with Angel. I'm still not sure where it started, but even now, looking at the episodes again, all I see is how great he is for her. I know Joss has had this thing with Buffy having to have that as one of her flaws, to 'target the impossible relationships.' But he's her strength (!!!) and it's long past time for her to see him as he deserves to be seen.

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Friday, January 19, 2007 4:08 PM

It's unlikely that Buffy and Xander get together in the Buffy season eight comic, as Andrew says in 'The Girl in Question' that Buffy is with The Immortal...

Still, I also like the idea of Buffy/Xander...I'd have loved to see Spike and Angel's reactions...

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Friday, January 19, 2007 4:16 PM

JLIN13

i havent watched the show religiously yet, but with everyone thinking that Xander and Buffy getting together in the last season "completing" the show, do you think that possibly Joss wanted a REAL ending where the guy doesnt get the girl?

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Friday, January 19, 2007 10:58 PM

ARCADIA

Quote:
Originally posted by Lexan:
It's unlikely that Buffy and Xander get together in the Buffy season eight comic, as Andrew says in 'The Girl in Question' that Buffy is with The Immortal...

According the a source on the somethingawful forums...

Select to view spoiler:

That was noth Buffy with the imortal, it was the buffybot.

Also...

Select to view spoiler:

it has been heavily implied in non-spoiler space that something happens betwen Buffy and Xander in the comics. I really didn't want to know that! I really didn't want to know the above spoiler, either, but at those forums all you have to do is put your curser onto the text for it to appear. Here, it is much harder to spoil yourself, and yet I find myself partly spoiled just the same. I really don't appreciate it.

Arcadia (aka Greyfable and/or Katie)
www.stillflying.net -- picking up Firefly were Joss left off. We will hold 'til he gets back.

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Friday, January 19, 2007 11:17 PM

Huh...now that's interesting (about The Immortal), if it's true. I haven't read the sample of the Buffy comic, as to keep from being spoiled, so I don't know if that contains an implication of the above information.

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Saturday, January 20, 2007 5:10 AM

I saw the sample of the comic, too. Wasn't sure if I should mention it here or not. If you want to see it, there's a link on Whedonesque. Just go to the archives for January. Not sure how far back it was, possibly a couple of weeks ago by now.

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Sunday, January 21, 2007 6:10 AM

SERENITYINSCOTLAND

Gorram, my IP address was banned from FFF.net again. It seems to happen at random every couple months and lasts for a couple of weeks.

Anyway, worst aspects of Buffy?
1. Kennedy - damn near came close to ruining Willow's character for me. Also, we never shown any sort of moment for Kennedy that explains why Willow likes here - the closest being when she kisses Willow/Warren in 'The Killer in Me'.
2. That Wesley never reappeared on Buffy. I read a beautiful fanfic somewhere which has Wes returning for Buffy's funeral. But I would have loved to see dark Wes meet Buffy!
3. Speechifying in Season 7 - tended to run together a bit.
4. The lessening focus on Xander and Willow in season 7. I'm noticing that most of my problems seem to be with season 7, maybe thats no coincidence.
5. Not replicating outfits - how big is Buffy's wardrobe?! Also, why did Willow never wear her purple hat more than once ('Suprise') - loved that purple hat.

Btw, you would need to very dense not to realise what was under those highlighted spoilers! Guess we are a bit out of practice at hiding Buffy spoilers!

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Sunday, January 21, 2007 7:26 PM

Maybe saying I didn't want to read the first few pages of the Buffy comic because I didn't want to be spoiled was the wrong way of putting it... It's more that I wanted to save it for when the whole thing came out... I knew that if anyone posted something in response to what I said it was most likely going to contradict what I was saying (in spoiler form).

I'd also like to say I find it intriguing that so many people hate Kennedy. I liked her, though not as much as Tara (which actually doesn’t say much because I wasn’t that keen on either character). I thought she was a good match for Willow, being the epitome of everything Tara isn’t. This works, because it practically makes her the total opposite of Willow. The only thing that really annoyed me about their relationship would be how Willow, after having been the strong one in her and Tara’s relationship, goes back to being the ‘protected’ one and also how soon it happened after Tara’s death…

One ‘weak aspect’ of the series I don’t think anyone has pointed out is one (probably the only one) in ‘Conversations with Dead People’. I thought the Willow/Cassie scene really didn’t work, not because of the fact that Tara wasn’t in it but for the fact that Willow shouldn’t have been in that episode at all. I once heard that it had been originally planned for Xander to appear in the episode with Jesse as the first. This, I feel, would have been more effective and appropriate, not only because it refers back to the very first episode of Buffy but also because there would have subsequently been more Xander, something the season severely lacked.

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Sunday, January 21, 2007 8:57 PM

REGINAROADIE

Desktophippie-

Joss would think otherwise. Not just with Xander, but with every one of his characters, he likes to beat them up and then when they're on the ground as a bloody pulp, he squats over them and craps on them.

All in an entertaining fashion, of course. Point is, don't expect Joss to be nice to Xander anytime soon. Probably take the other eye out while he's at it.

I suppose one positive aspect to SERENITY possibly being the last bit of FIREFLY ever is that Simon and Kaylee will forever be suspended in time as a happy couple. Can't say the same for any other couple in the Whedonverse. If there is a direct-to-DVD sequel or a continuation of any kind, he'd probably kill off either Simon or Kaylee. Probably the latter. Look what he did to Fred.

**************************************************
"Have you ever fired two guns whilst jumping through the air?"
"No."
"Have you ever fired ONE gun whilst jumping through the air?"

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Monday, January 22, 2007 10:30 PM

I think a thread should be made about this Buffy/Xander thing, perhaps with 'potential spoilers' marked on it. However, a problem with this would mean it would kind of be a spoiler in itself. Though anyone who has read this thread has most probably already been *potentially* spoiled.

Anyway, would it be okay to make a thread about it? Maybe using a non-implicational title?

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Tuesday, January 23, 2007 12:34 AM