Over rated Buffy episodes by OPPYH

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Over rated Buffy episodes

POSTED BY: OPPYH
UPDATED: Saturday, June 14, 2008 19:46
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VIEWED: 4310
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Tuesday, June 10, 2008 6:47 PM

OPPYH

Hush. Never understood why this is considered one of the best. Quite boring actually.

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Wednesday, June 11, 2008 3:24 AM

FARFLY

Are you a Fox executive????

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Wednesday, June 11, 2008 5:49 AM

KYRA

Who we are depends on the outcome of the struggle between who we were and who we want to be

WHAT?!

Okay, I'm not gonna back you up on that one (Hush is one of my favourites) but you're more than entitled to your opinion.

I'm a major fan and cant really think of ones that I hated and others loved (usually the other way around) but I didn't think much to the What's my Line 2 parter nor, surprise surprise, much of season 6

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Wednesday, June 11, 2008 6:42 AM

RAHLMACLAREN

"Damn yokels, can't even tell a transport ship ain't got no guns on it." - Jayne Cobb

If OPPYH was a F*X exec, do really think OPPYH would have made it as far as season 4?

My pick: Season 6. Oops! That's not an ep.

"Chosen" - I thought they should have shown the Hellmouth one last time.

--------------------------------------------------
Find here the Serenity you seek. -Tara Maclay

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Wednesday, June 11, 2008 6:49 AM

GROOSALUGG

"Conversations with Dead People"

The Willow scenes just don't work--AT ALL--with Cassie instead of Tara, and the Dawn scenes are just one great big continuity error with regards to the First Evil...

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Wednesday, June 11, 2008 7:04 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Groosalugg:
"Conversations with Dead People"

The Willow scenes just don't work--AT ALL--with Cassie instead of Tara, and the Dawn scenes are just one great big continuity error with regards to the First Evil...

You've said this one before, and I've watched it since, and while I can totally see where you're coming from, I respectfully say... you're off your nut.

I think the most over-rated ep is The Gift. Sure, the end packs an emotional punch, but most of the ep really ain't all that great- certainly not in comparison to eps like Chosen or The Wish.

Critical Chrisisall

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Wednesday, June 11, 2008 9:29 AM

GROOSALUGG

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Groosalugg:
"Conversations with Dead People"

The Willow scenes just don't work--AT ALL--with Cassie instead of Tara, and the Dawn scenes are just one great big continuity error with regards to the First Evil...
You've said this one before, and I've watched it since, and while I can totally see where you're coming from, I respectfully say... you're off your nut.

About which part? 'Cause I know that there are some people out there who say, "Oh, no, it works so much better with Cassie than Tara! It's, like, creepier... or something." I don't see that at all, but whatever: it comes down to opinion. I've got mine, they've got theirs.

But if you were talking about the Dawn scenes, then please, try to defend them. Tell me how, if that really was the First Evil, it makes any sense within the context of how we saw the First for the rest of the season. Start with how this non-corporeal entity was able to scratch Dawn, throw her across the room, or move the furniture about. Then move on to why it never bothered with such a scary approach to any of the other characters for the rest of the season. 'Cause if there's an explanation for all that, I'd really like to hear it...

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Wednesday, June 11, 2008 9:45 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Groosalugg:
Start with how this non-corporeal entity was able to scratch Dawn, throw her across the room, or move the furniture about. Then move on to why it never bothered with such a scary approach to any of the other characters for the rest of the season. 'Cause if there's an explanation for all that, I'd really like to hear it...

Uhhh...er....it, uh, all happened in Dawn's mind, it made HER actually do the destruction as she was seeing the First do it...and the reason that it never tried it with any others is...uh..oh yeah- created magically as she was, being the Key & all, Dawn was more susceptible to a magicks attack to the mind than any of the others, that's it!

isall

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Wednesday, June 11, 2008 10:14 AM

GROOSALUGG

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Uhhh...er....it, uh, all happened in Dawn's mind, it made HER actually do the destruction as she was seeing the First do it...and the reason that it never tried it with any others is...uh..oh yeah- created magically as she was, being the Key & all, Dawn was more susceptible to a magicks attack to the mind than any of the others, that's it!

Okay, I'll buy that.

(Why doesn't the "tongue" emoticon work anymore?)

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Wednesday, June 11, 2008 10:25 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Groosalugg:

Okay, I'll buy that.

Really? I mean, good.
Now you can enjoy the ep a little more.

Wankin' the fan Chrisisall

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Wednesday, June 11, 2008 12:31 PM

GROOSALUGG

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Really? I mean, good.
Now you can enjoy the ep a little more.

No, dude, I was just humoring you.

I know (from the audio commentary) that it was supposed to be the First, but since that really makes no sense for the reasons I already gave, I have my own alternate explanations:

A) It really was Joyce, trying to contact Dawn, with some creature trying to prevent her from doing so.

Or B) It was something else other than the First trying to trick Dawn, and make her doubt Buffy. For some strange reason.

Neither option really makes a lot of sense in the overall plot of the season... but then again, even if it's the First, it still doesn't make a lot of sense in the overall plot of the season, because it doesn't really go anywhere. But that fits right in with the rest of S7, where one of its defining traits was subplots that began, ran for a little while, and then fizzled out with no real reason or payoff...

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Wednesday, June 11, 2008 3:38 PM

REGINAROADIE

I too found "Hush" to be a slightly overrated episode. And don't nail me up to the cross or anything, but I also found "Once More, With Feeling" to be the most overrated episode.

A lot of what I call "experimental" episodes sometimes feels like they're doing it just for the Hell of it. That they story they're telling doesn't justify the way that it's being told. For example, "Restless" and "The Body" I felt were two experimental episodes that worked flawlessly. Since "Restless" was about introspection and the characters figuring out who they were and where they fit in, that the loose, freeflow tone and structure fit perfectly. And with "The Body", its more cinematic, awkward and sparsely cut structure amplified the shock and digestion of a very real life event crashing into the fantasy world made it unforgettable.

But the story behind "Once More, With Feeling" didn't require a musical number every five minutes. I got the sense that this was Joss saying "I am powerful and can do whatever the Hell I want on my show, so I am going to do a musical episode. Marvel at my genius." Plus, the songs themselves weren't that interesting. I have no idea why people go ROCKY HORROR on this ep.

Also, "Innocence" and it's follow up ep didn't do a thing for me. I thought Angel was a bland character for the first two years, so him suddenly turning evil had no impact on me whatsoever. When I saw Buffy crying afterwards, I was like "Helloo?? Big red flag here. Stop crying and get your shit together."

I know that's the moment that the show became THE SHOW to a lot of people, but it just didn't do anything to me. I was more annoyed than shocked.

**************************************************
"And it starts with a sentence that might last a lifetime, or it all might just go down in flames. If I let you know me, then why would you want me? Each day I don't is a shame. Each day I don't is a great shame."

Loudon Wainwright III - "Strange Weirdos" off the "Knocked Up" soundtrack

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Wednesday, June 11, 2008 6:11 PM

OPPYH

Quote:
Originally posted by RahlMaclaren:
If OPPYH was a F*X exec, do really think OPPYH would have made it as far as season 4?

My pick: Season 6. Oops! That's not an ep.

"Chosen" - I thought they should have shown the Hellmouth one last time.

--------------------------------------------------
Find here the Serenity you seek. -Tara Maclay

Yup, Buffy is my favorite show of all time. It's just every time it's mentioned it seems like Hush is the first episode people rave about. I like it, just not crazy about it.

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Thursday, June 12, 2008 4:52 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by reginaroadie:
I too found "Hush" to be a slightly overrated episode.

Me too, like said above, I liked it fine, but no more than Fear Itself.

Quote:
And don't nail me up to the cross or anything, but I also found "Once More, With Feeling" to be the most overrated episode.

Plus, the songs themselves weren't that interesting. I have no idea why people go ROCKY HORROR on this ep.

I have to disagree here- I love the songs; if I were an I-pod person, I'd be playing the whole ep every couple days...plus: if they showed the ep at a theatre, I'd definitely go.
I'd rate it better than Rocky Horror, and almost as good as Jesus Christ Superstar.

But that's just meisall

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Thursday, June 12, 2008 5:13 AM

MAL4PREZ

I'm with RR - OMWF is cute and clever and all, but I just never feel any tempation to watch it again. A few of the musical numbers make me kind of cringe-y, but then anything resembling Karaoke mades me want to run and hide. Singalongs are so not my thing.

Easy Chris - I'm not saying it's a bad episode! And, you know what, if it was at a midnight screening I'd go just to enjoy the fans singing along and being goofy. It'd be a good time.

But I don't rate OMWF as one of the top episodes. Can't do it. My taste may very well be suspect - I also love Season 5 (Glory rocks!) and get bored with much of Season 7.

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Thursday, June 12, 2008 5:18 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
I get bored with much of Season 7.

As long as you down with the Faith eps, we cool.

Yoisall

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Thursday, June 12, 2008 5:57 AM

MAL4PREZ

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
I get bored with much of Season 7.
As long as you down with the Faith eps, we cool.

Oh - pshaw, Faith. Nothing at all entertaining about her...

OK, I can't even come up with convincing lies about that LOL! Faith completely rocks. I have a total woman-crush on her LOL!

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Thursday, June 12, 2008 6:05 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
I have a total woman-crush on her LOL!

I have that too!

Coincidental Chrisisall

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Thursday, June 12, 2008 3:54 PM

GROOSALUGG

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
I get bored with much of Season 7.

As long as you down with the Faith eps, we cool.

In spite of Faith being my favorite character, her appearance in S7 was pretty much a big "whatever"

for me. What did she actually do? She showed up, got handed a position of leadership that she didn't want, led some of the girls into a trap, got blown up, slept with Principal Wood, and was one of many, many slayers who fought in the final battle (yet didn't really stand out in that fight in any significant way). It's almost like the writers didn't really know what to do with her once they had her... which seemed to be the situation with a lot of the characters in S7.

She was SO MUCH better in her 3 episodes of Angel S4, just a few weeks earlier. She got to be more of a badass, she accomplished more, she had more of character arc where she grew and changed, and from a strictly superficial POV, she looked hotter.

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Thursday, June 12, 2008 9:33 PM

THESOMNAMBULIST

Oppyh wrote:

Quote:
Hush. Never understood why this is considered one of the best. Quite boring actually.

Well that's a fair enough point. Maybe it is overated when taken for just a single episode, removed from the context of the show, but since you asked here's a little list.

1)Originality: It is so rare for an episode of tv to go by without dialogue. It's a very difficult trick to pass of. Try viewing one of your home movies with the sound off and see how much harder it is to sit through.

2) Timing: Think of what that season had been doing with it's characters to this point. Buffy and Riley where at an impass with regards to their relationship and clearly they needed to talk it out. But how? Well in clever Joss style he uses moments of complete silence to express everything these characters feel. (Actually mostly done with music to perfection by Chris Beck, but there are moments where silent acting is incorporated to sheer wonderment) Many a silent star would have been impressed. Xander and Anya too are unable to communicate when they are speaking, and it is not until a moment of 'action' on Xander's part that all becomes clear between them and ever so much more is expressed between them in just a 'moment' in time.

3)Observation: I think this episode works because many people can relate to 'wanting' to say something to someone and yet the words used are actually wrong, and inappropriate yet we use them without thinking and say nothing when we speak, but it allows us to get by in society. Hush highlights that, by saying well how would you get by trying to communicate with someone if forced to 'mime' the action or to express your immediate fears? You wont waste time with flowery vernacular, which we so readily rely on, you have to make your point.

4)The Gentlemen: This one is more my personal take on things, but I think The Gentlemen are one of the great Horror characters to come along in years. I still think there is plenty of milage in these guys. Not since 'Freddy Kruger' first appeared on the seen has there been a better horror villain. These guys are up there with Frankenstien's monster, Dracula, The Mummy etc. They are genuinely creepy fellows!

5)The Score: I've sort of mentioned it already. The music to this episode is a masterpiece! I wish they would release it as an album to listen to on it's own, I think you'd pretty much be able to follow the narrative as you listen. It's incredible. And it gave us Buffy and Riley's theme which is a superior piece of music for TV.

6)Formula: This episode manages to keep up with all the usual Buffy elements: Horror, Drama, Humour and action and it does it without dialogue and without missing a beat and still furthers the shows overall 'Arc'.

Personally I was just fascinated to watch a show where all our usual characters are doing something very different onscreen. I would be interested to hear which episode you regard as your favourite?

But hey... Each to their own brand of kipper....

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Friday, June 13, 2008 5:28 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Groosalugg:

In spite of Faith being my favorite character, her appearance in S7 was pretty much a big "whatever" for me. What did she actually do?

Yeah, she didn't save the day or anything, her appearance in season 7 smacked of mere simple realism...she was just there to take pressure off Buffy, not for thrilling heroics...hey- maybe that's why I liked it!
Y'know Groos, I LIKE some inconsistency, some plain moments, some self-mocking. I didn't mind the lack of focus on peripheral characters- they were well explored for six seasons...I didn't mind that Buffy had her arms folded in practically every shot...

I don't see the need to go all Burninator on it...

With the notable exception of Him, season seven is pure gold to me, just like season three.

That's my brand of kipper.

Wounded dwarfisall

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Friday, June 13, 2008 5:39 AM

ZEEK

Well you asked for it with a thread like this so I'll go ahead and be honest and get everyone to hate me all at once. "The Body"

I never liked the episode. I don't feel like SMG pulled it off at all. Oh I'm going to stutter now to show that I can't process all this emotion. Yeah never seen a real person stutter like that or stutter in an emotional situation. Both were a huge failure IMO. Stuff like that happens through the whole episode that prevents me from ever feeling like the events are real. I don't even think it's totally SMGs fault. Some of it could have been written more realistically too.

Now back to conversations with dead people. I'm sorta glad I haven't listend to the commentary on that one. I never once thought Dawn was fighting with the first. I thought the first was messing with Willow and obviously a little with Spike. Other than that I thought the vamp was a real vamp and Dawn was dealing with her actual Mom. I thought all the clues about how the was a corporeal fight and how Joyce didn't look as real as the first does when it appears any other time in the season were are clues that it wasn't the first. I'm just going to stick with my fan wank on that one I guess. Though I was always disappointed that it never really went anywhere. Best I could come up with was that it tipped Dawn off to the Xander abduction.

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Friday, June 13, 2008 7:14 PM

GROOSALUGG

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
With the notable exception of Him, season seven is pure gold to me, just like season three.

Heh, "Him" is one of the three or four S7 episodes that I actually DO like...

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Saturday, June 14, 2008 7:46 PM

REGINAROADIE

In regards to "The Body", I don't get what you're talking about with the stuttering. I don't remember any stuttering from SMG. I remember the horribly vacant look on Joyce's face as her corpse was sprawled out on the couch, the fact that scenes took place in real time and with no music, the disjointed editing and inserts of close ups, the horrified look on Buffy's face when she finally refers to Joyce as "the body" (I always saw that moment as the real moment Buffy realizes that she's dead, not the close up of the numbers on the phone that Joss says on the commentary track) and each of the supporting character's own meltdowns. The only flaw in the whole ep was the vampire in the morgue. That to me seemed out of place to have a bit of fantasy in an ep that had the real world crashing into the series.

Other than that, it is IMHO, the best ep of the entire series.

As per Faith in S7, I always saw it as just a further developing of the tragic nature of Faith and Buffy's relationship. Here you have Faith genuinely trying to do good, to help train these girls, to take a different approach in boosting morale, and Buffy so blinded by her hatred and betrayal from her becoming even more isolated from her makeshift family and from the girls she's trying to protect and transform. I loved the bit where Faith calls her out on not even knowing the girls' names.

In the comics, the one thing that kinda disappointed me was the fact that Buffy still keeps slapping away the hand that Faith holds out for peace between the two of them. You would think that after all that they've gone through, that Buffy would have somehow learned to forgive her. Faith has been doing nothing but trying to redeem herself. She's hit rock bottom (Angel was there to witness it) and now she's trying to get back up, but Buffy still keeps kicking her down. That, as well as setting themselves up as targets by robbing vaults and plundering. I don't think she's there yet as a true leader.

**************************************************
"And it starts with a sentence that might last a lifetime, or it all might just go down in flames. If I let you know me, then why would you want me? Each day I don't is a shame. Each day I don't is a great shame."

Loudon Wainwright III - "Strange Weirdos" off the "Knocked Up" soundtrack

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