Does Buffy Get Better? by Jayhawk35

In my (sometimes disputed) opinion, the last ep of season one is a little bit cool, and season two hits the ground at a good pace, building up to an excellent climax, and it's all gold from there until an iffy season five, then six gets twisted (in a good way, again, IMO), then seven is what I would call desert (yummmmm)!

Yeah, I'm a fanisall

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Saturday, August 9, 2008 10:20 AM

EMBERS

Well in my opinion season two gets very exciting right away, and you'll find it is worth while having watched the silly/light weight season 1 (because there are foreshadowings of things to come)

The show becomes edgier and more interesting as time goes by, have you see 'Hush' (the mostly silent episode for which Joss was nominated for a Best screenplay Emmy)? There are some outstandingly great episodes over the seven seasons, unfortunately season 1 is kind of weak....

(although personally I enjoyed the Pack, that game of Dodge Ball was straight out of my school days!)

New Firefly fans should check this out: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=15816

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Saturday, August 9, 2008 10:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by embers:

(although personally I enjoyed the Pack, that game of Dodge Ball was straight out of my school days!)

I concur.

They couldn't hit Chrisisall

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Saturday, August 9, 2008 10:32 AM

DAVESHAYNE

Buffy does get better as has already been stated. At the very least though you should put in the next episode "Angel" which is the start of the central plot for the next two seasons. You can safely skip "I, Robot... You Jane" unless you really want to laugh at popular depictions of the internet circa 1997. After that it recovers a bit and ramps up to the season finale. Season 2 on is pretty much all gold though season 6 gets rather grim.

David

'Geeks can't admit that anything worthwhile was invented before 1981. Soon, "making cocoa" will be called "milk hacking."' - Lore Sjoberg

http://xkcd.com/386/

"Don't worry. Captain Hammer will save us." - Penny.

I has myspace - http://www.myspace.com/daveshayneforpresident

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Saturday, August 9, 2008 10:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by daveshayne:
though season 6 gets rather grim.

Really though, I found season five to be much grimmer- a lot of what happened there (her Glorificus aside) was just hammering Buffy into the ground, emotionally speaking; season six saw a definite light at the end of the tunnel, I thought.
Then seven- well, there were just so many AWESOME eps, almost back to back...(I can't go into detail here, you understand).

Slayerisall

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Saturday, August 9, 2008 11:20 AM

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

This is funny, I just started watching it, too. It never appealed to me until so many folk here talked about it. I was underwhelmed with early season one, starting to warm up by the end of it, and now I'm into season three, I can't stop watching. So yeah, it gets better.

You may say I'm a dreamer. But I'm not the only one.

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Saturday, August 9, 2008 11:28 AM

There seem to be three main schools of thought here, if I understand correctly- the most popular being, stay with it to the end!

Then there's, after season five, it's over.
And then, after season four, it's over.

I'm in the first group.

Chosen oneisall

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Saturday, August 9, 2008 2:16 PM

CHARLIEBZ

Oh, yes! Like you, I started watching and was, let's say, underwhelmed by the first season. Prophecy Girl changed that and the show got better and better.

Stick with it!

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Saturday, August 9, 2008 2:28 PM

SIGMANUNKI

My impression of it watching while it was on air was, season 1-3 gets better. Don't really pay attention to season 1 as that was somewhat the result of another show getting cancelled mid season and Buffy taking its place.

Season 4 is mostly good, most likely due to the fact that season 3 was supposed to be the end but Buffy got extended. Season 4 is also the home to the wonderful dream episode which is a grand reward for watching up to that point. Then season 5, depending on how you like a couple new characters, will be good or a little bit irritating. Season 5 was again an end point, but yet again, it was renewed.

Season 6 is hit and miss. There are many great episodes in it, but also many profound failures. One of the great episodes being the musical one. One of the profound failures was it overall plot arch.

Season 7 is pretty much a write off. There is only one good episode called Storyteller. The rest of the season was a pathetic mess. Even on first viewing it was a mostly painful season to watch. It was even inconsistent within its own framework. Words cannot express my dissatisfaction with this season so I'll stop now.

----
I am on The Original List (twice). We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Saturday, August 9, 2008 2:33 PM

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
My impression of it watching while it was on air was, season 1-3 gets better. Don't really pay attention to season 1 as that was somewhat the result of another show getting cancelled mid season and Buffy taking its place.

Season 4 is mostly good, most likely due to the fact that season 3 was supposed to be the end but Buffy got extended. Season 4 is also the home to the wonderful dream episode which is a grand reward for watching up to that point. Then season 5, depending on how you like a couple new characters, will be good or a little bit irritating. Season 5 was again an end point, but yet again, it was renewed.

Season 6 is hit and miss. There are many great episodes in it, but also many profound failures. One of the great episodes being the musical one. One of the profound failures was it overall plot arch.

Season 7 is pretty much a write off. There is only one good episode called Storyteller. The rest of the season was a pathetic mess. Even on first viewing it was a mostly painful season to watch. It was even inconsistent within its own framework. Words cannot express my dissatisfaction with this season so I'll stop now.

----
I am on The Original List (twice). We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

I concur with almost everything here, except the show had me at hello

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original

"Yes-- Cheney are Bush are men of peace-- this we know. It is terrible that their good deeds are being thwarted, misinterpreted-- so much so that they are forced to direct others to torture prisoners." Professor Michael Levine

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Saturday, August 9, 2008 2:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:

Season 7 is pretty much a write off.

*wacky Chinese subtitles*
YOU MUST BE TIRED OF LIVING!!!
*pointing finger*

Buff-Fuisall

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Saturday, August 9, 2008 3:07 PM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
I concur with almost everything here, except the show had me at hello

Ditto. I never saw a single episode while it was still in production, but it caught my eye on FX network in syndication, when I spied Evil Willow and Scott Evil from the Austin Powers movies... it was good enough to get me interested, so I started watching a bit, and got hooked. I bought all seven seasons on DVD, and I can't tell you how many times I've watched them.

Season One IS a bit hard to take on re-watching. It feels light and fluffy, and looks a bit cheap, but KEEP WATCHING. By the two-hour finale (Prophecy Girl), it has gotten really good. And from there, it just gets better through at least the next two seasons. By S4, there's some episodes I can do without, but I can still watch any of the entire seven seasons without flinching.

You NEED to "slog through" Season 1 just to get some of the background on characters and themes that will come up again.

Mike

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Saturday, August 9, 2008 6:00 PM

REGINAROADIE

Speaking from experience, yes it does. I always considered BUFFY to have a quality arc. S1 was good, but really amateur and cheesy. S2 was still cheesy, but a lot better (although I personally never bought Buffy and Angel as star crossed lovers, so Angelus meant nothing to me). But S3 to me was their Sgt. Peppers year. This was the year that everything clicked and they were firing on all cylinders. Some people may have had problem with S4 and 5, but I thought they were just as good as S3 ("The Body" and it's follow up "Forever" were two of the best eps of the entire series). But by the beginning of season 6, they were starting to run on fumes. I always liked "Tabula Rasa" far more than the musical episode. They got a little more gas with Evil Willow. But season 7 was the car going downhill in neutral. Sorry chris, aside from Anya's episode, S7 was just "let's wrap this up, folks".

**************************************************
"And it starts with a sentence that might last a lifetime, or it all might just go down in flames. If I let you know me, then why would you want me? Each day I don't is a shame. Each day I don't is a great shame."

Loudon Wainwright III - "Strange Weirdos" off the "Knocked Up" soundtrack

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Saturday, August 9, 2008 6:32 PM

SIGMANUNKI

Might want to remove the spoilers from your posts guys.

----
I am on The Original List (twice). We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Sunday, August 10, 2008 4:48 AM

MER

Buffy season 1 is insanely campy. It continues sort of like this until they get out of HS. I think that's what it is, they're still in HS so everything is kinda meh.

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Sunday, August 10, 2008 5:11 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by reginaroadie:
Sorry chris, S7 was just "let's wrap this up, folks".

I don't get this at all- aside from the episode "Him", every ep is GOLD for me...okay, so it's not as wildly creative as season 3, the sheer velocity of the storytelling combined with Tom Lenk's stuff and Duncan's music makes it my FAVOURITE season!!! It's right up there with 3 & 4 IMO.

Suffer from "I coulda done it better" syndrome much?

GRRRARGHHChrisisall

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Sunday, August 10, 2008 9:11 AM

IAMJACKSUSERNAME

Well, I'm all right. - Mal

I've watched the first 3 seasons of Buffy so far, and while I didn't like the first 2 seasons that much, the 3rd has been good thru-out. If your wife liked Firefly I'd suggest she at least watch the season 1 and 2 finales: "Prophecy Girl" and "Becoming: Part 2" (part 1 you can explain) which are both Firefly good.

I've just finished S3, and the average quality is much better. "Amends", "Helpless", and "The Zeppo" were my very favorite episodes of S3.

Avoid all the special features and commentaries on the DVDs which will spoil not just future episodes, but also future seasons and spin-offs.

If you make it to S4, see the airdate order list at http://buffy.wikia.com/wiki/User:I_am_Jack%27s_username/Airdate_order to avoid spoilers between Buffy and the spin-off.
--
I am Jack's username
Pointy, ish

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Sunday, August 10, 2008 9:16 AM

LADYSINGS

Quote:
...... the sheer velocity of the storytelling combined with Tom Lenk's stuff and Duncan's music makes it my FAVOURITE season!!! It's right up there with 3 & 4 IMO.

....and I believe this is one of the main reasons why season one is rather painful to watch....the music. Once Christophe Beck took over and then later on Robert Duncan....the episodes seemed more like theatrical films instead of TV episodes.

"Well ya know, we studied bludgeoning in the academy first year but by the time you graduate, you just forget everything. I'm a bad cop." ----Laurence Dobson

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Sunday, August 10, 2008 9:43 AM

EVILDINOSAUR

season 1 is pretty bad, it gets way better

"Haha, mine is an evil laugh."

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Sunday, August 10, 2008 12:31 PM

CORNCOBB

Yes, it gets better. Personally, Buffy knocked my socks off from the word go, but I was fifteen when it started. I'm currently rewatching season 1 and finding that it's not as good as I remembered. The magic is there, but it's hard to see it through the kinda inexperienced acting and directing and it's slightly silly approach. It gets more sophisticated as time goes on. Stick with it, at least through the AMAZING season 2. I wavered a bit through some of the soapish developments in seasons 4 and 5, but it gets nice and gritty again in season 6.

"Gorramit Mal... I've forgotten my line."

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Sunday, August 10, 2008 12:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Corncobb:
it gets nice and gritty again in season 6.

That's what I like to see...appreciation of the finer things!

Spikeisall

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Sunday, August 10, 2008 12:44 PM

CRAYONS

I watched shows here and there in the first season and wasn't too thrilled. But after the first season, I was hooked!

_________________________________________________
Please nominate The Pretender on the Rich LaBonte poll.

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Sunday, August 10, 2008 1:42 PM

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Quote:
Originally posted by IamJacksUsername:
If you make it to S4, see the airdate order list at http://buffy.wikia.com/wiki/User:I_am_Jack%27s_username/Airdate_order to avoid spoilers between Buffy and the spin-off.

Hey, cool, I was going to ask which order I should watch Buffy and Angel in, thanks!

You may say I'm a dreamer. But I'm not the only one.

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Sunday, August 10, 2008 1:50 PM

I went to Blockbuster & rented the Angel disks that had the Buffy crossovers I wanted..then I, er, LOST them (into my collection

). They charged me a reasonable price & got replacements for themselves.

this wouldn't have been a problem 'ceptin I ain't the biggest Angel fan, and I didn't wanna buy whole seasons just to connect the dots in Buffy.

Chrisisall, to the Angelmobile!

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Sunday, August 10, 2008 1:59 PM

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

I'm really liking Angel, actually. I think it's a better show, at least so far. The writing is more what I expected from Joss and Co, and even the vampire/demon makeup is better and more creepy.

You may say I'm a dreamer. But I'm not the only one.

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Sunday, August 10, 2008 2:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
I'm really liking Angel, actually. I think it's a better show, at least so far. The writing is more what I expected from Joss and Co, and even the vampire/demon makeup is better and more creepy.

You may say I'm a dreamer. But I'm not the only one.

...drums fingers on table...

I'll wait.

Seriously, I love Angel, but there are some parts where it just gets really ridiculous. Pylaea, anyone?

But, all in all, Angel feels more like the "grown up" show - call it Melrose Place to Buffy's 90210, if you must. I mean, if you really, really MUST.

Mike

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Sunday, August 10, 2008 2:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Pylaea, anyone?

*cringes*
When Angel is good, it's GREAT. I just groove more consistently to Buffy is all. And regarding the grown-up thing, that has more than a little to do with Buffy season seven being my favourite season, I suspect.

Five by fiveisall

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Sunday, August 10, 2008 3:32 PM

OPPYH

Let's face it Buffy(season 2) put Joss on the map. After watching that season, you'll understand why.

IMO, it could have ended after season 5. Season 6 was dumb, and the main characters(beside Buffy) were just background noise in 7.

All the other seasons rocked though. Enjoy.

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Sunday, August 10, 2008 5:34 PM

As with any season, or any show that goes seven seasons, there are going to be episodes that are "filler" shows, and there are going to be seasons that just aren't as strong as others.

With Buffy, though, I'll stack the WORST episode or season up against 99% of the dreck that's on TV today.

The only show I've seen that consistently wows me anywhere near as often is The Shield - and it's definitely lost a step or two the last couple seasons.

I haven't seen The Wire yet, but I'm told it's simply some of the best TV ever made. I'd love to see it, but I can't really see laying out $50 or so per season. If it goes on sale, I'm so there...

Mike

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Monday, August 11, 2008 1:45 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST

Quote:
Originally posted by Jayhawk35:
Hi, Jayhawk35 here...haven't posted on FFF.net for a while, but if you remember me, I'm a HUGE Browncoat and absolutely love Firefly/Serenity and all things with it.

Anyhow, I finally decided to pickup the entire series set of Buffy because I've never really watched it before. My wife and I have started watching season 1, and just finished the episode, The Pack, and so far, are pretty much underwhelmed. Please please please tell me this show, including the acting gets better. My wife is ready to give it up, and I keep begging her to keep watching it with me because I know it will get better. I'm I right? Is season 1 considered to be kind of slow and there to get its legs under it, and after that it really takes off? I'd love to hear what fans of Buffy have to say about where we are in our viewing, and how you think the series is and how it possibly improves from here.

Thanks!

J

---
Zoë: "Preacher, don't the Bible have some pretty specific things to say about killing?"

Book: "Quite specific. It is however somewhat fuzzier on the subject of kneecaps"

In answer to your question YES.

It gets better and better. So much so that depending on who you are the seasons that are considered 'challenging ie, 5,6, and 7', will invariably end up being one of your favourite seasons.

Fact is, is that while season 1 now appears horribly dated, it will remain a shining beacon to a great show. Because you know that's where the magic started!

Let us all know when you're done and what your favourite season is.

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Monday, August 11, 2008 6:15 AM

JAYHAWK35

Thanks everyone for your input, and by all means, if you have more advice or something to add, please let me know what you think.

I must say that I'm a bit torn between the answers that say yes it gets better except seasons x... and those that say the entire show rocks.

So far, I definitely agree that season 1 looks dated and a bit cheesy. I'm just hoping it matures and the stories pick up after S1. I'll post more thoughts about what we've watched as we go along.

J

---
Zoë: "Preacher, don't the Bible have some pretty specific things to say about killing?"

Book: "Quite specific. It is however somewhat fuzzier on the subject of kneecaps"

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Monday, August 11, 2008 6:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jayhawk35:

I must say that I'm a bit torn between the answers that say yes it gets better except seasons x... and those that say the entire show rocks.

Bottom line, it's a roller coaster ride, some eps or seasons will end up being your favourites, but go to the end, dong ma?

Alionisall

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Monday, August 11, 2008 9:17 AM

EMBERS

Quote:
Originally posted by Jayhawk35:
Thanks everyone for your input, and by all means, if you have more advice or something to add, please let me know what you think.

I must say that I'm a bit torn between the answers that say yes it gets better except seasons x... and those that say the entire show rocks.

So far, I definitely agree that season 1 looks dated and a bit cheesy. I'm just hoping it matures and the stories pick up after S1. I'll post more thoughts about what we've watched as we go along.

J

I'm just happy to know that you will be continuing, because I think you'll find that season 2 gets much more dramatic and involving,
and season 3 is a favorite of a lot of people for very good reason!

It is true that we all have our favorites, but no one hates everything (well, you know, except like 'Bad Eggs', but even that one is kind of funny!)

New Firefly fans should check this out: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=15816

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Monday, August 11, 2008 9:47 AM

CYBERSNARK

But, but. . . Bad Eggs has my favourite Xander facial expression in the whole series (that split-second "GUH!" when he notices what he was about to eat).

Also, it has Willow's line about boiling one's young (and Giles' appreciation of Xander's Macchiavellian ingenuity).

But yes, stick through the whole series; the last few seasons aren't so much "bad" as they are a stylistic departure. I didn't necessarily like the direction the show went, but I do appreciate the style with which it got there.

And yeah, when Angel spins off, follow it as well. Even without the crossovers, it's a strong enough show on its own. And it's a bit more Firefly-esque, due to Joss' continuing evolution --You'll see things in Angel that presage Firefly's style.

(And I liked the Pylea arc, though I'm a big enough geek to enjoy the Dungeons & Dragons "alternate world" thing. Plus, Lorne is my fave character.)

Quote:

STOP! . . . In the naaaaame of love,
Before you break my heart.
Singin' whoa-oh-o-oOH SH--
*snikt*

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Monday, August 11, 2008 10:11 AM

DAVESHAYNE

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Really though, I found season five to be much grimmer- a lot of what happened there (her Glorificus aside) was just hammering Buffy into the ground, emotionally speaking; season six saw a definite light at the end of the tunnel, I thought.

Season five - while it certainly had it's bummer moments - never got as sustainedly unhappy as the middle bit of season six. Six ended better though.

David

'Geeks can't admit that anything worthwhile was invented before 1981. Soon, "making cocoa" will be called "milk hacking."' - Lore Sjoberg

http://xkcd.com/386/

"Don't worry. Captain Hammer will save us." - Penny.

I has myspace - http://www.myspace.com/daveshayneforpresident

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Monday, August 11, 2008 10:24 AM

EMBERS

Quote:
Originally posted by Cybersnark:
But, but. . . Bad Eggs has my favourite Xander facial expression in the whole series (that split-second "GUH!" when he notices what he was about to eat).

Also, it has Willow's line about boiling one's young (and Giles' appreciation of Xander's Macchiavellian ingenuity).

and actually right after I said that about the bad of Bad Eggs, I remembered that I appreciated that it was the first time they talked openly about the state of denial in which Joyce, as well as most of Sunnydale, lived...
so it was an important episode! LOL

New Firefly fans should check this out: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=15816

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Monday, August 11, 2008 12:08 PM

CORNCOBB

The one thing it definitely does is mature. I think that was partly the secret of it's longevity. It grew up with it's characters and audience. Later seasons deal with some seriously heart-renching drama and some disturbingly adult themes. Oh, and if you find yourself hooked later on, don't miss Angel, at least because it continues the story arcs for a LOT of Buffy characters.

"Gorramit Mal... I've forgotten my line."

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Monday, August 11, 2008 12:33 PM

Quote:
(And I liked the Pylea arc, though I'm a big enough geek to enjoy the Dungeons & Dragons "alternate world" thing. Plus, Lorne is my fave character.)

The Pylea arc is really just kind of annoying on re-watching; I was hooked into it the first time I watched Angel all the way through. And Lorne IS one of the best characters. He's just so snarky, you've gotta love him!

Mike

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Monday, August 11, 2008 1:11 PM

AIKO

I just have a question to ask, and I figured this would be an appropriate thread, seeing as how it started as a question...

I'm confused about the whole Angel issue. If it IS a seperate show, then why does it have all those ties to Buffy, and I think I heard from somewhere you have to altrenate back and forth from Buffy eps and Angel eps in order to get the entire storyline...? Why did they do that, if I'm correct? Could someone explain to me why they did all this?

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Monday, August 11, 2008 3:02 PM

CYBERSNARK

Separate show, but same universe. Angel (the character) just has a very different style than Buffy. Where she's the cool, fun-loving superhero, Angel's the broody intense warrior. Where she's the latest in a long line of Slayers, he's one-of-a-kind and has been around for almost 200 years (meaning that he has both history and "history"). It makes the two shows very different in style, tone, and setting.

Angel deliberately goes into the places Buffy wouldn't (he does this so she won't have to).

You'll see when Angel appears on BtVS (he gets well-established in this show before being moved on to his own).

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Monday, August 11, 2008 3:23 PM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Originally posted by Aiko:
I think I heard from somewhere you have to altrenate back and forth from Buffy eps and Angel eps in order to get the entire storyline...?

They did this in the first year of Angel, right after spinning off from Buffy. I was mostly, I understand, a gimmick to bring Buffy fans over to Angel as well. It doesn't happen so much after the first season of Angel/third season of Buffy.

Back to the thread, I am a HUGE Firefly fan, but not so much a Buffy fan. I rented the Buffy series, as opposed to buying it. I liked the second season best, and then sorta left with Angel. Angel was much more my cup of tea. I see Buffy as more of a character drama about personal emotional growth, whereas Angel had more of an macro-existential, philosophical feel to it. I also love the work of Angel's collaborators, Tim Minear (Wonderfalls) and David Greenwalt (Profit). No doubt their contributions has a lot to do with my feeling more at home with Angel.

So if you decide you can't take any more of Buffy, give Angel a try. If you don't like Angel either, it's ok. My husband doesn't care for either Buffy or Angel, but loves Firefly just the same.

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Monday, August 11, 2008 3:24 PM

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Quote:
Originally posted by Aiko:
I just have a question to ask, and I figured this would be an appropriate thread, seeing as how it started as a question...

I'm confused about the whole Angel issue. If it IS a seperate show, then why does it have all those ties to Buffy, and I think I heard from somewhere you have to altrenate back and forth from Buffy eps and Angel eps in order to get the entire storyline...? Why did they do that, if I'm correct? Could someone explain to me why they did all this?

Um because Joss realized that one could not contain the hotness that is David Boreanaz on just one show.

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original

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Tuesday, August 12, 2008 3:45 AM

MALACHITE

The short answer is yes... eventually. Unlike Firefly, which is engaging and enjoyable from almost the start, Buffy didn't really capture me until towards the end of Season 2. Season 3 is where it takes off (the picture and sound quality get much better as well, I think), but in order to appreciate it, it helps to be familiar with the events of Season 2. There are definitely weak episodes scattered throughout Season 2.
I initially started with Season 2 as I was told to avoid Season 1. For many episodes, I thought, "This is so much weaker than Firefly. Why'd they cancel that show?" Some episodes seemed pretty good, though, so I stuck with it, and by the time Season 2 was over, I was pretty intrigued, and liked the characters well enough. I then went back and watched Season 1 (while also going on to Season 3), which, once you've decided you like the characters and stories, should be entertaining enough.
So, in short, you'll probably need to get to Season 3 before you are feeling pretty intrigued by it all, but, in order to appreciate Season 3, you need to have seen a lot of Season 2. Once there, the rest of the Seasons are well done, and despite their problems, should be quite enjoyable overall. Then, you can go back and watch them all, and find all the seasons to be good overall, and even find the worst episodes to have great moments.
Good luck!

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Tuesday, August 12, 2008 8:26 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST

I think the strength with Buffy is that it was a very different animal to anything that was around at the time.

You have to remember back in -- what was it 96/97, there were no blondes going around doing martial arts and whooping vamp butt, whilst making you laugh!

It's easy to reflect now some ten years on and dismiss all that, but really it was such a twist for a TV show. By the time you're on your 3rd, 4th season you've forgotten about all that and you're much more into it's mythos (which is very strong) and pondering where the show will go in the future, and then getting narky when it doesn't go exactly the way you envisaged it.

That's the beauty of a show like Buffy, you do find yourself caring about what it is doing, so much so you could easily sit amongst friends and debate as to what 'you' would do were you in charge of the show.

Angel by contrast is a much more mature show. However it had a fan base established and really needed to do a lot less work to cement itself in the hearts of its viewers. Bare in mind alot of characters from Buffy hop over so characterisation wasn't slowing down story.

Also by it's nature it didn't need to justify it's darkness. It's a show about a Vampire, so you're in dark territory from the off! That allowed alot more mature themes and as was stated earlier wonderful philospohical avenues, which clearly the writers loved putting their audience through.

The rub however in my view, and it is only my view, is that many of the episodes in Angel are far too contrived, and characters do veer off dramatically from their established personalities, which in the long run tend to spoil the overall impact.

That said it is still a class show and really much of the cinematography is sublime. Ross Berryman knows his onions!

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Monday, August 18, 2008 2:35 PM

BLUEREDGREEN

It gets MUCH better, stick with it! The acting definatly improves as well, Sarah gets MUCH better at her role and so does everyone else.

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Monday, August 18, 2008 4:34 PM

OPPYH

Until I watched Buffy, I was perfectly content with "comfort food" shows. That is, shows that are fun to watch, but not a lot of substance. Buffy changed me forever on what tv could be. Even shows like Lost, or Heroes don't grab me one tenth of what Buffy did. But Angel was pretty close, especially season 5.

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Monday, August 18, 2008 4:39 PM

ASORTAFAIRYTALE

I'm only on season three of Buffy, although I watched all of Angel first. So far I like Angel better, just because I like the characters on Angel a lot better than on Buffy. I do think that seasons two and three of Buffy are a lot better than season one, although neither Buffy nor Angel can be better than Firefly in my opinion.

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Those who don't hear the music think the dancers mad.

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Wednesday, August 20, 2008 2:24 PM

Well, in one sense Angel and Buffy ARE better than Firefly - in the sense that we got so gorram MUCH of those other two shows! And it's not a question of quality versus quantity, because Buffy and Angel, while providing five and seven seasons, respectively, still maintained a pretty high standard of quality.

Sure, there were some clunkers, but the worst episodes of those two shows are still quite a bit better than 99% of other television.

But that's just my opinion... I could be wrong. (But I'm not.)

Your mileage may vary.

:D

Mike

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Friday, August 22, 2008 7:17 PM