Are You for Unification or Independence if You Lived in the FireFly 'Verse? by RiveR6213

FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

Are You for Unification or Independence if You Lived in the FireFly 'Verse?

POSTED BY: RIVER6213
UPDATED: Monday, January 2, 2006 19:00
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 15537
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Wednesday, November 16, 2005 6:55 PM

Myself, I would lean towards Unification because I would think it was safer, but in the end, I would have fought for Independence because I dont like people telling me what to do, and would have died on Hera in some lonely section of Serenity Valley.

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Wednesday, November 16, 2005 8:01 PM

GAMESTALKER25

I would be for Independence mostly because if i did live in the 'verse im sure i would have been born on one of them "uncivilized" planets. Plus, i would not be fore some big "Grand Unification" if it was being forced on me. I would have been one to take up arms. Would i have lived through the war...your guess would be as good as mine.

You can't take the sky from me...

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Wednesday, November 16, 2005 9:05 PM

GIANTEVILHEAD

I'm very unlucky so chances are I probably would have been born on the earth that was, living in a blasted wasteland, barely able to scrap by. Although if I were born on the new worlds then I not only would I be for Unification, I would probably be running the Academy, ruining people's lives and doing horrible experiments on gifted children to turn them into psychic assassins trained to eliminate enemies of the Alliance *insert maniacal laugh*.

"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam

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Wednesday, November 16, 2005 9:16 PM

THOLO

Independance!!!!!

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Wednesday, November 16, 2005 10:09 PM

GIANTEVILHEAD

Rebel scum

"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam

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Friday, November 18, 2005 12:06 PM

ACESANDEIGHTS

Unification, who wouldnt want to be part of an Empi- er, Alliance?

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Friday, November 18, 2005 12:26 PM

QUEENOFTHENORTH

Independence, all the way. I don't play well with others.

Like books? Go to this thread: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=14862
to find out how to buy mine!

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Friday, November 18, 2005 12:31 PM

BELACGOD

Unification. Internecine warfare is bad--the 'verse would be worse off with wars between Ariel and Sihnon, say.

Not to say I'd like the Alliance, but I'd have supported unification.

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Friday, November 18, 2005 1:00 PM

ONLYFOOTPRINTS

The Alliance is a facade. It enforces corporate domination, i.e. Blue Sun, through public misinformation, feigned philanthropy, covert non-governmental operatives (hands of blue, two by two), and outright military aggression if necessary. To support unification is to support those who think they know better how you should live your life than you do. Rise up all oppressed sentient beings of the 'verse. Throw off the shackles of ignorance. Fight for independence now! Join the browncoats in the glorious battle for truth, justice, and Miranda.

So many worlds. So little time.

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Friday, November 18, 2005 2:42 PM

REGINAROADIE

As a Canadian, I can see both sides of the coin and like different things about them. I like the idea of a central government, of planets working together, as opposed to dozens of different tiny governments fighting each other over territory and space. Plus, if you have to convert your cash to a different currency every time you went to a different planet, it would be a massive inconvenience for all.

But at the same time, I would like the personal freedoms and independent rule and democracy that the Independents crave so much, and not have to live in a totalitarian society run by corporations.

I suppose the ideal political situation I'd like to live in if I lived in the Firefly verse is that the Alliance functioned like an intergalactic democratic country, and that each of the planets were like states or provinces. They would be under some greater government control, but each planet would have it's own Premier or Governor and cabinet that would decide local (as in for the planet in particular) policies, standards, etc. And of course, no Big Brother watching me.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
"YES!!!I'm a man posessed by many demons....Polite demons that would open the door for a lady carrying too many parcels...BUT DEMONS NONETHELESS!!!! Yes. I have walked along the path of evil many times, it's a twisting, curving path that..actually leads to a charming plot garden, BUT BEYOND THAT EVIL!!!"

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Friday, November 18, 2005 6:20 PM

URSULA

My luck, I'd have been a colonist on Miranda and become a Reaver.

I guess that makes me for all kinds of unification--just not with willing participants.

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Friday, November 18, 2005 7:07 PM

ELGGIN

I would have grown up on Shadow as Mal's special lady friend, volunteered for service in the Independent Army and survived Serenity Valley to become a member of the crew (and Mal would have no romantic feelings towards a certain Companion)...

I can dream, can't I?

Anyway, I'm all for Independence. Don't like being told what to do...

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Saturday, November 19, 2005 4:21 AM

HEB

I think each planet should have a referendum on whether to join. If some planets want to form an alliance then that's fine but it shouldn't be forced on other planets by force or economically.

Personally I'd probably have voted to join the Alliance until the point where they started making other planets join or until I found out about Blue Sun and the academy.

...................
Well, my sister's a ship... we had a
complicated childhood
.................
I wear the cheese. It does not wear me.

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Saturday, November 19, 2005 11:18 AM

RISAPHOENIX

Independence. Totally independence. Id have to agree fully with River. The alliance "meddles." I cant stand being told what to do, or what to think. I also have all kinds of problems with authority.

I think if planets get together and want to unify, thats all well and good, and heck, i might even agree a bit, cause groups are stronger together sometimes. But i think something like that would have to be totally voulentary, in joining, staying, and in governting. The fact that the alliance forced the worlds to join was totally wrong.

Id have been a supporter of independence.

__________________________________________________

"Dont judge me by my failures, only by my dreams"

"Cant take the sky from me"

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Saturday, November 19, 2005 4:46 PM

PSYCHOTICBRIDE

This is a tricky question for me. First of all, in the show we come at everything from an Independant perspective. It's always hard for me to make a decision when I know all my information is biased. Secondly, I have this pesky belief that all government systems are inherantly flawed- including anarchy, the lack of a government. So considering I still can't make up my mind about our real, modern government systems, I'm not seeing myself picking between Independance and Unification...

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Sunday, November 20, 2005 5:39 AM

AGENTROUKA

I'm fairly certain that I would have supported whatever cause was popular on the planet I grew up on. I would have grown up biased and I'm easily blinded by a good argument when I'm not presented with the counter-argument.

So, until something bad personally affected me (Say, poverty and lawless anarchy hurting my family = anti-Independents, or abuse of power and silly beaurcratic burdens = anti-Alliance) I would probably have remained an inactive, idealist airhead much like I am now.

War in general frightens me, so I don't see myself taking up arms, either.

Really, unless motivated by a very personal reason, I think I'd have been an opinion-less sheep of the sort that both sides rightfully look down on. *g*

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Sunday, November 20, 2005 7:44 AM

R1Z

Quote:
The Alliance is a facade. It enforces corporate domination, i.e. Blue Sun, through public misinformation, feigned philanthropy, covert non-governmental operatives (hands of blue, two by two), and outright military aggression if necessary.

This sounds vaguely familiar. Oh, yeah. It sounds like what's going on NOW. But that's ok, I'm sure Halliburton/GE/Westinghouse/Boeing/McDonnell Douglas/ etc. etc. have only my best interests at heart.

We never hear who convinced the outer planets to join together to fight "unification." Mal joined up after things were well and truly begun. Maybe we'll learn more later. . .

To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein

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Sunday, November 20, 2005 12:57 PM

FALLENANGEL

Independence all the way!. As River says,I don't like to be meddled with. I don't like to be told what do or what to think, don't walk or run. I have a mind of my own thanks very much. I would have probably fight in the war and kick some Allience ass!

Oh, boy. Do I need a nap.

Unification

Independence

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
People don't like to be meddled with. We tell them what to do, what to think, don't run, don't walk. We're in their homes and in their heads and we haven't the right. We're meddlesome.

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Sunday, November 20, 2005 1:18 PM

JAYTEE

As a long time liberal Democrat I'd have to be on the side of the Independents. For all those that read this and like to trash the word liberal I've only got one thing to say. Our country's founders were liberals and rebels and all I hear coming out of the mouths of right wing neocons are lies, lies and more lies. They are so up to their necks in lies the stink rises up all the way to Heaven. BTW, God is a Browncoat!

Jaytee

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Sunday, November 20, 2005 1:25 PM

FALLENANGEL

Quote:
Originally posted by JayTee:
As a long time liberal Democrat I'd have to be on the side of the Independents. For all those that read this and like to trash the word liberal I've only got one thing to say. Our country's founders were liberals and rebels and all I hear coming out of the mouths of right wing neocons are lies, lies and more lies. They are so up to their necks in lies the stink rises up all the way to Heaven. BTW, God is a Browncoat!

Jaytee

I'm a liberal Democrat too and gorram proud of it but are ya trying to start a war here??

May have been on the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
People don't like to be meddled with. We tell them what to do, what to think, don't run, don't walk. We're in their homes and in their heads and we haven't the right. We're meddlesome.

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Monday, November 21, 2005 6:39 AM

ONLYFOOTPRINTS

Liberal Democrat or Neocon whatever, all sides on the same badly tarnished coin. Political parties are part of the facade. Our vote is weak compared to the power we grant by how we spend our money. It's money that maintains the power structure. Money talks. Big money talks loudest. Every dollar you spend on gasoline, every vehicle you buy that runs on gasoline maintains the current corrupt powers-that-be. The real browncoats are the ones that walk, ride a bicycle, or get to where they need to go by any means that do not consume petroleum products. If you don't like the Blue Suns in this world, stop supporting them. They will dry up like Lake Powell in the hot sunshine.

So many worlds. So little time.

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Monday, November 21, 2005 7:06 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

I would have fought for independence. My family has always been independent and fought against oppression, dating all the way back to the Revolutionary War.

I have a real problem w/ an all powerful, centralized government answerable to no one. Call me crazy like that.

__________________________________________

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/richmondbrowncoats/

http://www.richmondbrowncoats.org

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Monday, November 21, 2005 8:05 AM

MISBEHAVEN

Look at this from a contemporary context. I consider myself to be liberal minded and I have a strong independent streak, so I tend to lean toward the Libertarian Party. Before you all go and say that I am wasting my vote, think about this. In the last presidential debate, the candidates for the Libertarian and Green parties were arrested in Cleveland, Ohio for trying to justly enter the debate hall. The debates were held in a public venue, and paid for by taxpayer dollars. Both candidates collectively represent millions of citizens, yet both of these presidential candidates were placed in jail only to be released shortly after the debates ended. Does that sound like a free democratic society to you? I know that neither candidate had a chance to win, but if they were allowed to spread their message they could potentially turn the tide of the election, something NEITHER party wanted. If you think voting for an independent or third party candidate is a waste of a vote, think about how you are really wasting a vote by electing either one of the representives of an entrenched, corrupt party bought and paid for with corporate money. At one point in this nation's history both parties accomplished great things, but they have long since become less concerned with freedom, equality, democracy, and justice; now they are more interested in self-preservation. Sorry for ranting guys, it is that independent streak I mentioned. That said, I would go with the Independents, because I certainly understand Mal's perspective on government: "they will either ignore you, or interfere with you equally."

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Monday, November 21, 2005 1:27 PM

GIANTEVILHEAD

Would the 'verse really have been better if the Independents won? We know very little about the Browncoats but what we do know is that the Independent leaders negotiated a surrender with the Alliance for two weeks while Mal and his men lay dying on the battlefield, doesn’t exactly reflect favorably upon them. Were the Independent leaders willing to give up their power after the war? For all we know, if the Independents had won, it would have lead to more wars.

"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam

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Monday, November 21, 2005 2:32 PM

MISBEHAVEN

Good point. We don't really know a lot about them, but I think that the Independents are just that, independent. Somehow they don't strike me as being the type of government that is heavily into oversight. Whereas the Alliance seems bent on control, I mean unification.

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Monday, November 21, 2005 2:40 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by JayTee:
Our country's founders were liberals and rebels and all I hear coming out of the mouths of right wing neocons are lies, lies and more lies. They are so up to their necks in lies the stink rises up all the way to Heaven. BTW, God is a Browncoat!

Try spouting this liberal crap over on the Real World Events board, pal. You'll have your a** handed to ya!!!
(BTW, as a liberal Libertarian, I totally agree with you.)

Chrisisall

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Monday, November 21, 2005 4:16 PM

MISSKITTEN

As I keep voting NO for joining the EU... I have a feeling I'd be a browncoat :)

*~*~*

"Joss, if you kill him now I'll stuff a compression coil up your ass sideways!"
~ Kaylee, "Serenity in 2000 words or less"

Kaylee's the perfect woman!

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Monday, November 21, 2005 4:18 PM

ROCKETJOCK

Quote:
Originally posted by elggin:
I would have grown up on Shadow as Mal's special lady friend, volunteered for service in the Independent Army and survived Serenity Valley to become a member of the crew (and Mal would have no romantic feelings towards a certain Companion)...

I can dream, can't I?

Does the name "Lieutenant Mary Sue Smith" mean anything to you?

(And if it doesn't, ask an old-time Trekkie about it. But be prepared to listen for a while...)

"They're not laughing at me, they're laughing towards me." -- Homer J. Simpson

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Monday, November 21, 2005 4:56 PM

ROCKETJOCK

On the main thread subject, let me state that I'm a died in the wool Libertarian, raised with Heinlein Juveniles instead of McGuffy's Primer, cut my eye teeth on Ayn Rand and H. Beam Piper. Browncoat for damned sure.

Quote:
Originally posted by misbehaven:
Look at this from a contemporary context. I consider myself to be liberal minded and I have a strong independent streak, so I tend to lean toward the Libertarian Party. Before you all go and say that I am wasting my vote, think about this. In the last presidential debate, the candidates for the Libertarian and Green parties were arrested in Cleveland, Ohio for trying to justly enter the debate hall. The debates were held in a public venue, and paid for by taxpayer dollars. Both candidates collectively represent millions of citizens, yet both of these presidential candidates were placed in jail only to be released shortly after the debates ended. Does that sound like a free democratic society to you?

My personal sore spot is that the "Big Two" get to have their primary elections at public expense. Why should their internal decision of who to nominate come out of my tax bill? Especially as they've rigged things so that a third party has almost no chance of making the minimum signatures to get on the gravy train with them...

Hell, a few years back California had "Open Primaries" -- meaning you could vote for any primary candidate, even if you weren't a member of that party! The law in question was voted in on a public initiative, natch. Just points out how little the American public understands our own political system.

"She's tore up plenty. But she'll fly true." -- Zoë Washburn

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Monday, November 21, 2005 5:22 PM

MISBEHAVEN

I hear you. The problem is that the system is corrupt, and the only ones with the real power to change it are those who benefit the most from things remaining as they are.

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Wednesday, November 23, 2005 5:07 PM

SERENYTY

I'd probably be a lot like Simon/River/Inara. I'd probably grow up in an Alliance-friendly household. I would be taught about the greatness of the Alliance, so it would take a while, but I'd grow to ask why the Alliance did what they did. I would turn to Independance.

~A message from Serenyty~

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Wednesday, November 23, 2005 8:38 PM

IMPERIALKNIGHT

I'm going to say something that will SHOCK all of you...just kidding

Long Live the Empi...*cough* *cough* Alliance!

On a hypothetically serious note, I'd support the Unification of Humanity to the extent that the objectives, intent, and modus operandi of the Alliance remained true to their overall goal of ennobling the human creature. I would strive to inspire those serving with me toward a more humane path and reform the seekers of this objective toward a means wholly without the use of drugs, fear, oppression, or capricious, unnecessary, and ruthless force as tools or means of furthering this cause. This would be accomplished through simple adherence to a single clarion ideal: the means you take is part of the end you make. Put more simply those that seek to ennoble mankind must realize that they themselves are not above or below the ideals they espouse. Indeed, they must always strive in all their acts to become the living growing embodiment of the ideals they wish others to follow.

I would take the Alliance and turn it into a quasi-monastic imperial order based on this single central ideal. I would indoctrinate only those who wished to hold power in the training of their wits to discern the difference between Good and Evil, cause and consequence, and in the continual sharpening of their wits, merits, and abilities. Any could join that wished to do so, and any that so wished could retire and surrender that power to others whose merit warranted that grant. The military and every conceivable sub-branch and offshoot would serve both as the fulcrum for this training and as a proving ground to divine, test, and refine the moral character and abilities of those who sought power over their fellow creatures.

All individuals that wished to stay outside this meristocratic order could serve and advance personally or cooperatively in any economic, cultural, and scientific sphere that did not intersect with military or governmental concerns and do so freely with minimal direct interference in the pursuit their craft after serving for four years in the military (to give - at least those able - a taste of the central ideal and to simply improve their abilities) as long as they did not violate the law. Those that opt out could pursue their own interests and advance the cause by scientific, economic, or cultural achievement as free from outright governmental interference as possible save in those cases where those achievements or the means required to achieve them prove deleritous to any individual or collective regardless of their power or class. This framework allows the ordered clarity of purpose of one to work hand and hand with the creative spark and personal initiative of the other while simultaneously balancing out the excesses of each path's forward motion under the guiding hand of the law.

The "glue" holding these disparate halves together would be the primacy of this single overarching ideal and the merits of those who seek to impart it to them in the effort of ennobling mankind.

Long Live the Empire!

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Wednesday, November 23, 2005 9:05 PM

BELUGASMOM

My daddy has always said I'm as independent as a hog on ice. I don't like being told what to do. I especially detest being told what to think. And when it somes to being told what to believe..... Can someone PLEASE tell me how to make paragraphs?!?! {this is all new to me}
And how do I get one of those "emoticons" in my post?
Life is short, brutal, and unpredictable. EAT DESSERT FIRST.

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Wednesday, November 23, 2005 9:44 PM

LIMINALOSITY

Wow, you went all realworld on this one. I am shocked! Shocked to find actual political opinion in this thread! Bwah haa ha!

:browncoat:

Thanks to viral marketing...SERENITY: reopening soon in a theater near you.
Shiny Trees! Yavanna made Shiny Trees!

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Sunday, November 27, 2005 3:09 PM

NCBROWNCOAT

I'm almost certain I'd be an Independent. The reasons are surprising.

Registered Republican but more of a Gulianni type Republican. Pro-choice, conservative fiscally, limited government all around, love decisive action by leaders (at least make a gorram decision and live with the consequences instead of sticking a finger in the wind to see which way it's blowing), vote for the person and not for the party (most of the time would like to vote "none of the above")and fiercely protective of my home and country (US Army for 6 years and Army spouse for 13). "Lead, follow or got the

out of the way!"

I guess all in all I fit the profile of a middle aged female Independent.

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Monday, November 28, 2005 2:57 PM

SAMEERTIA

Tough one.
Independent. I vote as an independent. I don't particularly toe any political party line. So yeah, I guess, when it came down to it, it's easy to say I'd be a Browncoat.

But what if, say as in Inara's case, (Why did she leave Sinhon, anyway?) I'd invested years of training for a chosen lifestyle, and would find myself out of the Guild for opposing the Alliance... would I look the other way? Would I save myself, following a political regime I couldn't agree with in order to preserve my lifestyle?

Can't say. Want to say I'd be gutsy, and brave, and have faith that what is right would win in the end. But I honestly don't know if I would.

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Monday, November 28, 2005 3:32 PM

FLYWITHMECAPTN

Browncoates all the way

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Sunday, December 11, 2005 3:50 AM

HAOLEHAOLE

...ALLIANCE!!

... CRUSH THE REBEL SCUM UNDER OUR HEEL! LET NO MAN, NO WOMAN EVEN SPEAK AGAINST US!!!!

... I'd be a Libertarian.

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Monday, December 12, 2005 9:17 AM

MEHTBI

Quote:
Originally posted by ImperialKnight:
Long Live the Empire!

I second that! :)

Alliance, Unification and no anarchy in everything! Sterilisation of everyone, who does not satisfy to criteria of the Better World!

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Monday, December 12, 2005 10:11 AM

TRAINEEALTERNATE

I can't help thinking about the American Civil War allegory going on in Firefly. I'll first have to figure that out- if it weren't for slavery, there wouldn't have been a war, and if there had been a war without, a massive number of Northerners like me would have protested, or even have supported the Confederacy. But since the cause of the war was rooted in a singular moral problem, I would have to support my home area, the North.

That having been said, the show never gave any major reasoning behind Unification, other than some "Whoo-rah! Let's go and have a good ole' fashioned war! Let's unite humanity," goz-zhe. For that, I'm going to have to say that I would have tried to join up in the Indepedent military, and failed every possible test for enlisting. I probably would have ended up driving a truck, hauling food or ammo while commenting on the obvious historical significance of the war to soldiers who might not have cared less about hearing me talk on and on and on about something they already know to be true.

---------------------------------------------
"Pretty lights...angels.... [thud.]"
"That's why I never kiss them on the mouth."
"When do I get to get sexed up?!"
"This is my most favorite-est gun..."
"Y'mean she's a witch?!" ...." She's in Congress?!?!"

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Monday, December 12, 2005 10:44 AM

MEHTBI

Quote:
Originally posted by TraineeAlternate:
I can't help thinking about the American Civil War allegory going on in Firefly. I'll first have to figure that out- if it weren't for slavery, there wouldn't have been a war, and if there had been a war without, a massive number of Northerners like me would have protested, or even have supported the Confederacy. But since the cause of the war was rooted in a singular moral problem, I would have to support my home area, the North.

It's not my business. But,

"In his inaugural address, delivered on March 4, 1861, Lincoln proclaimed that it was his duty to maintain the Union. He also declared that he had no intention of ending slavery where it existed, or of repealing the Fugitive Slave Law -- a position that horrified African Americans and their white allies..."

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part4/4p2967.html
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part4/4h1549.html

sorry again, not my business...

(btw, in Russia, slavery was ended 19.2.1861. without any war. we had no slaves from Africa, our slaves were our own people - russians had russian slaves :))

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Monday, December 12, 2005 11:08 AM

ONLYFOOTPRINTS

Independence.

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Monday, December 12, 2005 11:30 AM

MEHTBI

As for me, the show atmosphere (with all respect to western fans and civil war critics) is about WWII - german helmets and nazi-like fashion of Alliance soldiers, experiments with mind control, torture under the cover of creating world for s.c. "better people" from one side...
and WWII-fashion american army helmets, ideas of freedom, saving escaped prisoners with the risk for their lives - from another.

a'm not an expert in american XIX century history, so i'll think of it WWII-like way :)))

(i still wonder... on what side russians fought [edited] - for Unification or Independence? :))

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Monday, December 12, 2005 11:31 AM

STAKETHELURK

Quote:
The cause of the Civil War was not the issue of slavery.

The facts do not support this claim. Just look at the corellation between the number of slaves in a county and the percentage voting for seccession. In areas where large numbers of slaves were held, the voters overwhelming voted for seccession. In areas where there were few slaves, such as what would eventually become West Virginia, the vote was largely against seccession. And since the issue of slavery had been "bleeding" Kansas in the 1850s, (not to mention all those Compromises in the decades before) I think it is fallacious to assume that slavery was "created" as an issue during the war.

I'd like to add though, that the discussion of the issues of the Civil War, being so divise and contested, is better left to a thread in the RWED. We have it for a reason, after all. If folks want to start up a thread there to continue the discussion, great, but this thread is about the Pros and Cons of Unification. Let's try and stick to that, if we can.

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Monday, December 12, 2005 11:39 AM

MTNSCOTT

Silly question... People w/o power are independents, People with power are Alliance (Pro-governement). This is the way of politics.

I just ask everyone to remember these how you feel about centralized non-cultural governments the next time you hear of the wonders of the U.N..

Only the half mad are wholly alive.
E.A.

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Monday, December 12, 2005 5:36 PM

DC4BS

Quote:
Originally posted by MEHTbI:

a'm not an expert in american XIX century history, so i'll think of it WWII-like way :)))

(i still wonder... on what side russians fought [edited] - for Unification or Independence? :))

Um. I think they voted for independance... Before they voted against it.

I'd be fighting for the Indies. But hopefully not under Mals command (Cause I'm not Zoe)...

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FOX Execs...

dc4bs

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Saturday, December 17, 2005 2:07 PM

HAFTHAND

Independents all the way but only if they had some plan for some form of government. Independence is great but there has to be structure or it will all go to hell!!!

Love, Ally
'Comfort me with apples for I am sick of love' -Solomon

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Sunday, January 1, 2006 1:45 PM

ELEKA

Indpendants.

Governments are inherently flawed, espically when they try and go all totalitarian dictatory on us. I mean, living in toady's waorld I'm an Independant since too many signs are pointing to some big nasty popping out of the world's governments at some point in my lifetime.

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Jayne! Try not to steal too much of their shit.

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Sunday, January 1, 2006 2:15 PM

CHRISTHECYNIC

Indepenance.

Big surprise I'm sure.

There are some problems in the world, in 500 years someone might look at the present day US and very correctly say that it is a savage nation that is in bad need of outside help.

If that someone existed today, another nation with better education, medicine, social programs, food production, resources, technology, and all such things do you think I would simply let them come in, topple my government, and replace it with something more enlightened?

Hell no, and I don’t even like my government at the moment. I don’t care if it is better afterwards, I don’t like to be told what to do, and I’m not letting anybody tell me what to think. If someone wants to control what I think I immediately know that they don’t deserve to decide. At the very least they can be polite enough to try to hide it from me by covertly introducing memes in propaganda, not by destroying everything my people have stood for and then casting themselves as the benevolent saviors.

I don’t like it when my people do that, and I would stop them if I could, why would I allow someone else to do it to me?

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Sunday, January 1, 2006 2:20 PM

CHRISTHECYNIC

You know all of what I just said assumes that I'm either on or near the independent planets. If I were actually on a Core world I don't know. I wouldn't be on the side of Unification, but I might be neutral.

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