The Order According to Joss and Tim by Sarahetc

Well, Tim said that Joss changed OiS for air. Could be the knowing-not knowing thing.

Sarah

I'm a dying breed who still believes, haunted by American dreams. ---Neko Case

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Monday, June 16, 2003 6:31 AM

PHYSICSCHICK

I can't wait to see on the DVDs how it was supposed to be at first. Yippee! How much longer till December?

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Monday, June 16, 2003 7:30 AM

I'm confused how OIS could be the last episode. Reason. When Fox cancelled the series (or put it on hiatus), the FF crew were shooting two more episodes before wrapping. I believe they were about to shoot maybe Message or Heart. OIS already aired that week, because Fox announced that they wouldn't be picking up any more new episodes. It was a week before Serenity aired. Right????

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Monday, June 16, 2003 7:36 AM

JAGO

I'm also confused,

(spoiler)

.
.
.
.

at the end of HoG Inara says she's going to leave.

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Monday, June 16, 2003 8:37 AM

MANIACNUMBERONE

Quote:
Originally posted by Kaythryn:
When I first heard someone say that OiS came last I went and watched the eps in that order just to see. Its really great, everything flows from one ep to the next except for one thing-- In the Message Jayne refers to River as a psychic, and in OiS, the issue comes up, and he hears about it for the first time. The only explanation I can think of at the moment is that maybe that scene in The Message was added after they found out that OiS was to be aired first in the US. Anyone have a reason for why the psychic thing doesn’t fit?

Sarah could be right, but I thought that part of the reason River's psychic ability came up in OIS was because it was becoming obvious to all the crew that she was Psychic. That could only mean there were many indications about River in the past. Book couldn't deny his fellings when asked in OIS... it was too plain to him what the truth was.

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Monday, June 16, 2003 9:23 AM

I also remembered that one of the last episodes to be filmed was "The Message", because of the opening sequence in the mall. They were filming that scene when the show was already put on hiatus.

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Monday, June 16, 2003 9:27 AM

Jayne was surprised when the possibility River was psychic came up so the idea that he could somehow already know when The Message was around before OiS just doesn’t fit. Also River makes reference to OiS in Trash when talking to Jayne. Even if she could see that far into the future (there is no evidence to support this) Jayne wouldn’t be able to understand.

I think that the episode orders on the scripts (HoG OiS Trash TM) seems right (except for the ending of HoG) so if we assume Tim remembered right I think that stuff got left over from before they decided to air them in that order which messed up the continuity.

That or Jayne is psychic and River knows about it so when both Jayne and River make reference to things that haven’t happened yet it isn’t a problem. And Simon believes River’s psychicness before he knows she is psychic because he is either very trusting of a person he thinks suffers from “paranoid schizophrenia” when she tells him things she couldn’t possibly know, or he’s just a lucky moron.

That’s all I can do to explain it, Jayne and River can see episodes into the future and Simon is a lucky moron, or Tim remembered wrong, or the continuity sucks. Hate to say it but it’s most likely that the continuity sucks because it doesn’t make sense that Tim would be that far off.

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Monday, June 16, 2003 9:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:

That’s all I can do to explain it, Jayne and River can see episodes into the future and Simon is a lucky moron, or Tim remembered wrong, or the continuity sucks. Hate to say it but it’s most likely that the continuity sucks because it doesn’t make sense that Tim would be that far off.

I repeat: changes were made. The changes will be unmade in the DVDs at which time we will most likely understand. There is no way to look at the eps as they are now and understand the order because, as has been stated, changes were made.

Sarah

I'm a dying breed who still believes, haunted by American dreams. ---Neko Case

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Monday, June 16, 2003 9:43 AM

By the way, episode order on the scripts was:

The Train Job
Bushwhacked
Shindig
Safe
Our Mrs. Reynolds
Jaynestown
Out of Gas
Ariel
War Stories
Heart of gold
Objects in Space
Trash
The Message

With 1AGE of 01 through 13 in that order

Serenity was 1AGE79 but this web site lists it as 1AGE00. Apparently this 1---79 is reserved for the pilot, this doesn't makes sense to me but I believe it.

People said that Heart of Gold was revised after OiS was shot which would mean that They may have redone it to come later, explaining some stuff. Also the only thing in Heart of Gold that made it need to be after Trash and The Message was the recap. The changes of order would explain why things seem to be out of place. All of the stuff that doesn’t agree with what Tim said follows this order so I guess they just didn’t rewrite the best.

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Monday, June 16, 2003 9:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Sarahetc:

I repeat: changes were made. The changes will be unmade in the DVDs at which time we will most likely understand. There is no way to look at the eps as they are now and understand the order because, as has been stated, changes were made.

Sarah

I'm a dying breed who still believes, haunted by American dreams. ---Neko Case

I'm sorry, maybe I'm blind, where did it say changes were made? I thought it said a minor change was made to Objects that would have absolutely zero effect on continuity problems on the other episodes. So please, where did you find out about those changes? Obviously I missed it, and I’ll feel embarrassed once I see it.

Sorry I made such a big deal of it. Just show me where to find out about these changes.

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Monday, June 16, 2003 10:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:

I'm sorry, maybe I'm blind, where did it say changes were made? I thought it said a minor change was made to Objects that would have absolutely zero effect on continuity problems on the other episodes. So please, where did you find out about those changes? Obviously I missed it, and I’ll feel embarrassed once I see it.

Sorry I made such a big deal of it. Just show me where to find out about these changes.

1. Do you always make posts without reading previous posts?

2. The first post in this thread is a quote of posts made by Joss Whedon and Tim Minnear on (I believe) Buffistas.org. I cross posted them here from the cross post on the Fox board.

3. You invented "absolutely zero affect on continuity." Any of Jayne's or Inara's or anybody elses lines that you think mess up the "continuity" could have been changed at the last minute to deal with the writing order, the broadcast order, the shooting order, anything.

4. When the DVDs come out, all should be made clear. Until then, just enjoy for sobbing out loud!

Sarah

I'm a dying breed who still believes, haunted by American dreams. ---Neko Case

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Monday, June 16, 2003 10:13 AM

HOTFORKAYLEE

The order, and (to the best of my recollection) the way it'll shake out on the DVDs is:
Trash,
The Message,
Heart Of Gold,
Objects In Space
Joss made a minor adjustment in "Objects" when we aired it, and restored said change for the DVD order.
edited by Tim Minear on Jun 14, 2003 9:20:14 am PDT

Quote:
"Commander! Did you threaten to grab hold of this man by the collar and throw him out an airlock?"
"Yes I did."
"I'm shocked. Shocked and dismayed. I'd remind you that we are short on supplies here. We can't afford to take perfectly good clothing and throw it out into space. Always take the jacket off first, I've told you that before. Sorry, she meant to say: 'Stripped naked and thrown out an airlock.' I apologize for any confusion this may have caused."

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Monday, June 16, 2003 10:33 AM

The first post says that to the best of Tim’s memory (recollection) the order is as stated he then goes on to say that a (which means singular) minor (which means minor) adjustment (means change) in Objects (which means Objects in Space) was made. You said ‘changes’ (which means plural.) I might dismiss this as a mistake but you didn’t say “changes was made” so that means you meant to say ‘changes.’

So I ask again, where does it say these changes were made? Further the adjustment was made in Objects in Space. Unless the first 16 minutes were taken from another episode and stuck in there, not what I would call a minor adjustment, then the bits I refer to would not be significantly affected.

So it is a fair assumption (in my opinion) that the first 16 minutes of the episode Objects in Space were meant to go there and the minor adjustment didn’t completely change the content of said 16 minutes.

If this is the case then the adjustment in Objects would have no effect (another way of saying absolutely zero effect) on the stated scenes in the episodes Trash, The Message, and Heart of Gold. The lack of effect on these scenes would translate into a lack of effect on the problems in continuity they present.

Finally, yes it could be that these scenes were re shot, but that’s not what he said, and I’m only going on what he said.

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Monday, June 16, 2003 11:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:
The first post says that to the best of Tim’s memory (recollection) the order is as stated he then goes on to say that a (which means singular) minor (which means minor) adjustment (means change) in Objects (which means Objects in Space) was made. You said ‘changes’ (which means plural.) I might dismiss this as a mistake but you didn’t say “changes was made” so that means you meant to say ‘changes.’

Change/changes. A quibble. I'll express myself better in the future. Lord help me, I'm just not that bright.

If you don't believe what the producer of the show said, go ahead and start a thread called "I am Right and Tim is Wrong."

Or! You could just thank whatever it is you thank in periods of plenty that we got to see the unaired eps at all and get on with your life.

I'm a dying breed who still believes, haunted by American dreams. ---Neko Case

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Monday, June 16, 2003 11:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Sarahetc:

Change/changes. A quibble. I'll express myself better in the future. Lord help me, I'm just not that bright.

If you don't believe what the producer of the show said, go ahead and start a thread called "I am Right and Tim is Wrong."

Or! You could just thank whatever it is you thank in periods of plenty that we got to see the unaired eps at all and get on with your life.

I'm a dying breed who still believes, haunted by American dreams. ---Neko Case

Ok, now you've thoroughly confused me, where did I say I don't believe what he said? I believe what he said, I believe that there was a "minor adjustment" In Objects in Space, and I believe that to the best of his recollection the order is Trash- The Message- Heart of Gold- Objects in Space. I believe he knows more about it than I do, and more than you do.

I also believe that the episodes were originally meant to go in the order stated on the scripts and that unless he remembers incorrectly the order was changed (not the Fox order but the intended order.)

I don’t think that I said anything to the contrary of any of this.

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Monday, June 16, 2003 12:00 PM

If I could step in...

Chris the Cynic is expressing dissatisfaction. We are missing something, the eps just aren't adding up.

Can a minor adjustment in OiS suddenly clear things up? I hope so, but I don't see how.

I think we can safely blame Fox for all of our woes. If they hadn't messed with Joss, messed with the intended order and cancelled the show, then we wouldn't be having these inconsistencies.

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Monday, June 16, 2003 12:46 PM

I watched some of the episodes again. Here's my take on the order:

War Stories
Heart of Gold
Objects in Space
Trash
The Message.

I remembered Heart of Gold on the original Fox list of episodes, then Objects replaced it (moved up in airing). Threfore, both of these episodes were already shot before Fox made the hiatus announcement.

I remembered reading about the mall scene (in The Message) that was going to be filmed during the last two episodes. So, The Message is defiantely one of the last shows. The Trash episode has to be seen before the Message because of the stolen gun storyline. So, it makes sense that the last two filmed were: Trash and The Message.

Now if you watched Heart of Gold on-line, you may have noticed the "previous scenes" (whiched featured The Message and Objects in Space), which would make my order incorrect. But, that previous section could have been altered since Fox may have or would have played the episodes out-of-order again if the show returned. Fox may have played HOFG last.

Any case, who knows. All we care about is
MORE FIREFLY!!!!

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Monday, June 16, 2003 12:47 PM

SERGEANTX

Quote:
If I could step in...

Step in all you want, but if you can't stick to the facts and express your opinions rationally, you should really just keep them to yourself.

Quote:
Chris the Cynic is expressing dissatisfaction. We are missing something, the eps just aren't adding up.

Adding up? Since when is this about math? Tim and Joss aren't mathematicians, they're screenwriters. This is a perfect example of the kind of obfuscation this board could do without. We're missing something alright, what we're missing is honest and thorough examination of the facts on hand. Good grief Succatash, I expected more from you.

Quote:
Can a minor adjustment in OiS suddenly clear things up? I hope so, but I don't see how.

You don't see how?? No offense, but if you could see how, maybe you'd be writing the damned show. You're obviously ignoring the plethora of minutiae that proves you are totally wrong!

Quote:
I think we can safely blame Fox for all of our woes. If they hadn't messed with Joss, messed with the intended order and cancelled the show, then we wouldn't be having these inconsistencies.

Of course. If you can't understand something, just find a scapegoat. It isn't gonna fly 'tash, somebody has to take responsibility for the unaccounted for accountabilities staring us in the face. Until you except that FACT, none of this can be settled. Please take the time to make your arguments a little more inane if you're going to post on this thread.

SergeantX

"..and here's to all the dreamers, may our open hearts find rest." -- Nanci Griffith

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Monday, June 16, 2003 1:12 PM

KAYTHRYN

*Gives Succatash a little kiss on the cheek*
*Turns and gives Sarge a little kiss on his cheek*

No more typing while drunk or angry Sarge :) We're all browncoats here, must stick together and be happy, happy, happy! Happy damn it!

-------------------------------------
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
Aristotle

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Monday, June 16, 2003 1:14 PM

Sarge? Why is your asshole hat on? Please take it off, the hat makes you look like an idiot.

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Monday, June 16, 2003 1:26 PM

I am on friendly terms with the ol' Sarge so I am going out on a limb and suggesting that SERGEANTX is just being goofy. Having fun. We should rename him Sarge the Cynic.

He doesn't fool me.

SeargentX: Step in all you want, but if you can't stick to the facts and express your opinions rationally, you should really just keep them to yourself.

WTF?

SeargentX: Adding up? Since when is this about math? Tim and Joss aren't mathematicians, they're screenwriters. This is a perfect example of the kind of obfuscation this board could do without. We're missing something alright, what we're missing is honest and thorough examination of the facts on hand. Good grief Succatash, I expected more from you.

Sarge, what the hell are you talking about? For the last two weeks everyone has been confused over the order of the eps. That's because things aren't adding up. The facts aren't adding up. Deep breath.

SeargentX: You don't see how?? No offense, but if you could see how, maybe you'd be writing the damned show. You're obviously ignoring the plethora of minutiae that proves you are totally wrong!

I don't see how it could be done, nor do I want to see, a quick one minute resolution to HoG's cliff hanger ending.

SergeantX: Of course. If you can't understand something, just find a scapegoat. It isn't gonna fly 'tash, somebody has to take responsibility for the unaccounted for accountabilities staring us in the face. Until you except that FACT, none of this can be settled. Please take the time to make your arguments a little more inane if you're going to post on this thread.

You are actually quite funny, Sarge. You come across quite mad, and I thought you were at first, but I can cleary see the dark comedian within you. Thanks for being my pal.

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Monday, June 16, 2003 3:42 PM

INVISIBLEGREEN

Okay, so here's how I see it:

Serenity, Part 1
Serenity, Part 2
The Train Job
Bushwhacked
Our Mrs. Reynolds
Jaynestown
Out of Gas
Shindig
Safe
Ariel
War Stories
Trash
The Message
Heart of Gold
Objects in Space

This differs from the airing order in that "Serenity" is placed first (as it very logically should) and the three unaired eps come between "War Stories" and "Objects in Space."

This differs from the production order in that "Shindig" and "Safe" are shifted to later. (I have not heard any direct commentary on this one from Joss or Tim, other than Tim saying he made the decision for these to air when they did, not FOX; and that additional work was done on "Safe" after "Out of Gas." However, since the "previously" clips show a part of "Our mrs. Reynolds, it wouldn't make sense if these eps were to air in their production order [although since Fox Home Entertainment is releasing the DVDs, they'll almost definitely delete the "previously" clips, anyway]. But I do want to say that this is not definite, just my speculation.
Also, "Heart of Gold" and "Objects in Space" are moved to last. I'm not going to comment on this, since I haven't yet seen the unaired episodes, but Tim Minear has made it very clear what order the last four episodes go in (but I doubt Sci-Fi UK will air them that way, unless everyone starts sending requests soon).

So what I'm saying is that the order is very confusing, thanks mostly to FOX, but also to Joss and Tim. But at least you can enjoy each episode individually, although every time you want to watch the series chronologically you get more confused than a retard who accidently walked into a multivariable calculus classroom.

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Monday, June 16, 2003 3:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by InvisibleGreen:
...every time you want to watch the series chronologically you get more confused than a retard who accidently walked into a multivariable calculus classroom.

I'm not sure the retard would know he was supposed to be confused. I, on the other hand, would feel like a retard after accidentally walking into an extreme math class. The only difference between and a retard is my golden lunchbox, and a magic ring I wear at all times.

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Tuesday, June 17, 2003 7:10 AM

Hi Invisiblegreen,
I know we all have been going back and forth on this. The only problem with Objects in Space being last is because that episode already aired, and during the same week that Fox put Firefly on hiatus. Additionally, we all know that the crew shot two more episodes following the announcement of the hiatus. So, it makes sense that one of the three unaired episodes was the last one. Too me, it appears to be The Message. I do remember Heart of Gold being pushed back for Objects in Space (moved up). So, Heart was already done or finishing up post-production. So that leaves Trash and The Message. And Trash is part 1 and The Message is part 2 due to storyline.

No disrespect to Tim, but it's not possible for an episode to be last when it aired already unless they shot all of them before the announcement, which we know is not the case. Maybe he meant Object was supposed to be last in the whole plan, but they added the Trash's and The Message's scripts to be somewhere in between?

Who knows? We are all guessing.

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Tuesday, June 17, 2003 8:49 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
"Commander! Did you threaten to grab hold of this man by the collar and throw him out an airlock?"
"Yes I did."
"I'm shocked. Shocked and dismayed. I'd remind you that we are short on supplies here. We can't afford to take perfectly good clothing and throw it out into space. Always take the jacket off first, I've told you that before. Sorry, she meant to say: 'Stripped naked and thrown out an airlock.' I apologize for any confusion this may have caused."

------------------------------
And waste good AIR ??? Blasphemy!!
You strip em, throw em in the airlock, and run the cycle with both doors closed (i.e suck all the air out), then drag what's left of the sorry sodder to the protein recycler intake and well, I guess you can figure it out from there.

Waste not, want not.

-Frem

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Tuesday, June 17, 2003 9:37 AM

MANIACNUMBERONE

I'm sure that I don't know what that extra goodie in OIS will be, but I bet it's an extention onto the beginning of the scene with River listening to Mal/Inara, in which they will address the subject of her leaving more directly, but due to their mutual attraction/repulsion for each other they are stymied. I think it will end the same way as we have seen it.

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Tuesday, June 17, 2003 10:12 AM

The scene in OIS sounds like the ending of Heart of Gold. She's wondering why she hasn't left yet.

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Monday, July 14, 2003 8:34 PM

MAYFAE

-hello

-i am new to the board and unspoiled on the unaired episodes, would someone who has seen them all be so kind as tell me what order to watch them in? i've gotten my ep files from a source where 'the message' was labeled with both 15 & 13, and i think i even saw an eleven

..and googling episode guides has gotten me nothing but conflicting orders...
i'm all hyped about having new ffs to watch

...but they're only new once so i really want the optimum viewage sequence

-please help

-farscape-roswell-alias-firefly-SFU-DLM-angel-

-in that order.

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Tuesday, July 15, 2003 4:15 AM

SHINY

Quote:
Originally posted by mayfae:
-hello
-i am new to the board and unspoiled on the unaired episodes, would someone who has seen them all be so kind as tell me what order to watch them in?

Well, if you read all of the above posts, you'll see that there's little consensus on the issue, except that you definitely want to watch Trash before The Message. Where Heart of Gold goes is a matter if intense debate, even after reported attempts at clarification by Joss/Tim. I suggest you decide based on how you would like the last episode to end -- if you want more of a cliffhanger, OMG what's going to happen, DAMMIT WHY DID THE GORRAM BASTARDS AT FOX CANCEL THIS AWESOME SHOW, I WANT TO KNOW HOW THIS TURNS OUT kind of ending, watch Heart of Gold last. If you prefer something with a little less uncertainty and want to be left with the feeling that the crew is getting closer instead of threatening to fragment, then watch Heart of Gold first, then re-watch Objects in Space (and pretend that the beginning part is sufficient closure for the ending of Heart of Gold), followed by Trash and ending with The Message.

Just my $0.02

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Wednesday, July 16, 2003 6:38 AM

INVISIBLEGREEN

It's very confusing, but let me try to explain it. Here is the order the episodes were produced in:

Serenity, Part 1
Serenity, Part 2
The Train Job
Bushwhacked
Shindig
Safe
Our Mrs. Reynolds
Jaynestown
Out of Gas
Ariel
War Stories
Heart of Gold
Objects in Space
Trash
The Message

However, FOX found the original pilot "Serenity" to be dull, so they aired it last, making Joss Whedon & Tim Minear write and shoot a new pilot (The Train Job). Tim Minear also made a decision to air "Shindig" and "Safe" after "Out of Gas" instead of after "Bushwhacked." As far as I know, neither Joss nor Tim has made a conclusive statement as to where these episodes belong chronologically. [Although you will notice that the "previously" segment of "Safe" contains a clip from "Our Mrs. Reynolds," suggesting that the episodes do occur after "Out of Gas." Also, "Ariel" seems to have been written to occur shortly after "Safe"]

The series was cancelled after "War Stories" aired. Knowing this, "Objects in Space" was aired last (before "Serenity"), leaving three episodes unaired in the US. However, production continued for a few more weeks, so these episodes were completed.

Tim Minear has clearly stated that the order of the last four episodes, regardless of production number, is:

Trash
The Message
Heart of Gold
Objects in Space

The previously segments on these episodes also suggest this order.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Those are the facts. Make from them what you will.

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Friday, July 18, 2003 9:07 AM

MAYFAE

-thanks invisiblegreen and shiny, your advice is much appreciated

-i'm going to watch...
trash--->the message--->heartofgold--->objects

-yay, i have an order

Thanks so much

-farscape-roswell-alias-firefly-SFU-DLM-angel-
-in that order.

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Friday, July 18, 2003 2:55 PM

VETERAN

Don't squat with your spurs on.

"I think we can safely blame Fox for all of our woes. If they hadn't messed with Joss, messed with the intended order and cancelled the show, then we wouldn't be having these inconsistencies."

I raise a shot of JD to you... Well said! Hear hear!

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Saturday, July 19, 2003 8:35 AM

SERGEANTX

This has been brought up before, but I was watching "The Message" last night, and got to thinking about Jayne's line concerning River being a "..mind-reading genius.." This line has been pointed out as a continuity error in light of the semi-official order of the last few shows: Trash, Message, Heart of Gold then Objects in Space. But I'm not sure it would really be seen this way if the episodes had been shown in the above order.

Consider the events that occurred in "Safe". It seems probable that Simon would have told the crew, at least some of them, about what happened and about what River was accused of. Most likely none of them would have believed that River was actually reading minds, but it might have been something they would have brought up in a joking manner. I'm thinking that this is the way Jayne was using the term "mind-reading genuis". It would have been a mild dig, as well as something that may have been on his mind, at least subconsciously, after the creepy threat River made in "Trash".

Then in "Objects in Space", Jayne seems shocked at the possiblity that River really reads minds. This makes sense if he'd just been teasing her before, making it that much more shocking that what he'd been teasing her about turned out to be true.... and that much more frightening to him in light of the threat.

If the change in OIS turns out to be the scene with Mal an Inara, as is expected, that would really be the only change needed to preserve continuity -- if you buy the above explanation.
What do you think?

SergeantX

"..and here's to all the dreamers, may our open hearts find rest." -- Nanci Griffith

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Saturday, July 19, 2003 11:38 AM

VETERAN

Don't squat with your spurs on.

When you consider Safe, it makes sense that the crew would at least have it in the back of their minds that River can read minds.

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Saturday, July 19, 2003 12:24 PM

MELEAUX

Uhm,
It's just a tv show. I know I blasphem but com'on people.
I watch the episode I in the mood for.
Sheeze.

She understands, she doesn't comprehend

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Saturday, July 19, 2003 1:15 PM

LUNATIKAT

Dear Sarahetc,
In regards to

Quote:
Originally posted by Sarahetc:
...1. Do you always make posts without reading previous posts?...4. When the DVDs come out, all should be made clear. Until then, just enjoy for sobbing out loud!...
Sarah

Am I right in thinking then, ma'am, that you're the one who can help me learn how to find old posts? I came a little late to this party and am only semi-savvy 'bout this kind o' thing. What if I wanted to read from post number one to post number current in sequential order? Is that even possible? Desirable?
Also, I was wondering about your name. Is that like Sarah, et cetera? Originally, my brain kept translating it like a telescoping of Sarah and heretic, which I still like even after putting my glasses on and learning my error, but which may not reflect anything of your persona.
Meanwhile, I'll just enjoy. Anybody know what the DVD will cost?

Lunatikat - afflicted with cats, with a small outbreak of pug

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Saturday, July 19, 2003 4:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
It seems probable that Simon would have told the crew

Oh yeah, Sarge? Then why did Simon pretend River wasn't a reader in OiS? Mal said River is a reader and Simon said something like, "She's sensitive" and acted all innocent when they were all sitting together at the table.

I guess I just sort of blew your whole theory away, hope you're not mad. It's cool that you posted, you must be new, are you from England? Welcome, brother in War. It's great to have you here. The guy who runs this site is named Haken, that's about all you need to know. Enjoy your new Firefly experience. Shiny.

- Succatash

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Saturday, July 19, 2003 7:14 PM

VETERAN

Don't squat with your spurs on.

Quote:
Oh yeah, Sarge? Then why did Simon pretend River wasn't a reader in OiS? Mal said River is a reader and Simon said something like, "She's sensitive" and acted all innocent when they were all sitting together at the table.

I guess I just sort of blew your whole theory away

It's plausible that Simon told the crew the entire story of how they ended up at the stake.

Simon's inability to admit River can read minds may be because, as a doctor and scientist, Simon doesn't believe in mind reading or at least can't assign that ability to the paranormal. The best he can is to employ a euphemism: "She's Sensitive."

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Saturday, July 19, 2003 7:36 PM