Buffy and, errr...Spike (Spoilers if you ain't seen season 6) by chrisisall

BUFFYVERSE

Buffy and, errr...Spike (Spoilers if you ain't seen season 6)

POSTED BY: CHRISISALL
UPDATED: Thursday, August 31, 2006 12:46
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VIEWED: 3619
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Tuesday, August 29, 2006 8:57 AM

Spuffy.
Okay, she used him, and later he tried to 'force' the issue.

Disgusted? Intrigued? See it as just a phase- no big dealio?

What's your take on the affair?

Not the hair- never the hair Chrisisall

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Tuesday, August 29, 2006 9:31 AM

MSG

OK for the most part season 6 makes me steamy enough to melt into a puddle. Gone ( the one where she's invisible) just kills me. Great blend of sexy/funny/ and just plain Joss
That being said, I can see why Spike tried to force the issue and I am glad Joss went with Buffy smackin him down big time. Spike's less sure of his boundaries and Buffy was definitely sending severly mixed signals. I'm a firm believer of no means no, but I think as women we need to recognize that our actions can profoundly effect the need to say no and mean it. Plus I feel badly for Spike because he has genuine feelings for her and she's using that for her own purpose without intending to reciprocate ( again creating a badly unstable situation)

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

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Tuesday, August 29, 2006 10:53 AM

PURPLEBELLY

The depiction of a sexual relationship between two extremely violent people is not something I can comment on from my personal experience. Is it being used to talk about one sort of relationship between men? It seems to me to be the only time Buffy gets to wear a really cool coat; Lorne is right - these shows are all about the coat.

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Tuesday, August 29, 2006 11:29 AM

RUGBUG

Quote:
Originally posted by PurpleBelly:
Is it being used to talk about one sort of relationship between men?

Um, I think it's just showing a severely dysfunctional relationship between man and woman. Those can get violent, too, both physically and emotionally.

To the original question:
I think Spike was way out of line, but I understand how he got there. 1. He has no soul. 2. No in the past has meant "maybe" or "if you turn me on enough." 3. He's under the impression that they have been in a relationship. They haven't. Buffy's been using him to punish herself...and the violence of the relationship is part of that punishment.

***************
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

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Tuesday, August 29, 2006 11:31 AM

GRYFFYD

It's both of their faults. No didn't mean no in their relationship and it should have. Spike was desperate for someone to love him and at the same time trying to do all of the rights things. He overloaded and snapped. Buffy was the real abuser obviously. Using him, beating him, telling him he was nothing but a monster. How could he know that she wasn't playing one of their games again?

Gryffyd

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Tuesday, August 29, 2006 7:18 PM

PURPLEBELLY

^^ I was speaking of two individuals who are violent who come together in a sexual relationship, rather than those whose relationship makes them violent. I know no women who are violent outside of their personal relationships, so guy-Buffy is just conjecture.
If we're looking for signatures in addition to the coat - it seems to me that Buffy and Spike get busy about the time that the aggressively hetero boys are conjured into cage dancers, which according to the commentary was originally scripted as an overt gay coupling later veto'd by Joss because being gay isn't a punishment.

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Wednesday, August 30, 2006 7:07 AM

EMBERS

IMO a plot devise (like Tara's death) to push Spike so far off away from Buffy that he would do something desperate...
personally I would have liked it better if he had tried to bite her instead of rape her...
because it would have been less ambiguous,
but since they were going to play off that whole violent 'get what she deserves' they couldn't have really used his having tried to bite/turn her.

I'm not explaining it very well, but do you see what I mean?

I actually love the way these stories unfold, very few shows can be so dramatically intense and involving continuously and consistantly.

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Wednesday, August 30, 2006 7:39 AM

DESKTOPHIPPIE

I think the attempted rape was used to show that Spike wasn't able to see the difference between right and wrong, much as he tried to. Without a soul he was without a moral compass. In some ways he had achieved more than Angel did, as Angel had a soul (which seems to pretty much act as a conscience in the Buffyverse) whereas Spike had to learn painfully lesson by lesson what was okay and what wasn't. In other ways Spike hadn't progressed at all since he disgusted Buffy by wanting recognition for not eating the wounded people in 'Triangle'.

Spike tried to be a good man so he could win Buffy, who he did truly love. What season six showed us was that he was just as happy - probobly happier - to be evil with a darker version of the Buffy we were used to. Buffy, for her part, didn't love Spike and she did indeed use him and treat him terribly. In her defence, she was in a terrible amount of pain and much as he loved her Spike really didn't help by isolating her from her friends and trying to convince her that "you belong in the dark with me."

That being said I'm of the tiny female minority that doesn't melt at the James, which may be why I'm so analytical when it comes to that ship. Mind you, I adore Nicky and I'm still pretty critical of the way he treated Anya, although I did love their on-screen pairing. I also loved the Willow/Tara ship. Season six was not a good year for my faith in romance!

More animations available at http://desktophippie.googlepages.com

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Wednesday, August 30, 2006 7:54 AM

MSG

I would agree with pretty much everything that has been said...but I must add the side note that Spike's naked "push-ups" explaination to Xander nearly made me choke laughing:)

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

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Wednesday, August 30, 2006 8:11 AM

PURPLEBELLY

^^ And isn't adorable Nicky's response to Buffy and Spike getting busy so typical of a boring old straight guy's response to his best (male) friend going over?

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Wednesday, August 30, 2006 11:53 AM

RUGBUG

Hey purplebelly, can you expand on your post? I'm trying to figure out what you're saying (Xander's response to Spuffy is a typical response that a straight guy makes when he finds out his best friend is gay?) but I'm coming up blank. Although you have intrigued me enough to want to watch some BtVS tonight.

***************
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

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Wednesday, August 30, 2006 1:56 PM

CHRISISALL

You know, Buffy shagging Spike is about as expected as Xander shagging the newly outed football jock at S.H.
The 'It can't BE' moment.

Vampophobe Chrisisall

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Wednesday, August 30, 2006 8:02 PM

PURPLEBELLY

Hei, RugBug. I have problems expanding the idea, because it's only vaguely formed in my own mind; to be honest, I'm not enough into BtVS to want to do the research

The disgusted Xander I have in mind appears at his confrontation with Anya and (Good enough for Buffy) Spike outside the Magic Box.

The central approach is to say that what is significant about Buffy and Spike is that they use their bodies to effect violence and this both enables them to communicate with violence and gives them a reason to communicate on a sexual plane. In the US today this similarity in the level of violence and potential violence is most commonly manifest among relatively young males - although using sex to mitigate violence might be more common among bonobos

Thank you for being intrigued - that's the highest compliment - please share any further thoughts.

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Thursday, August 31, 2006 6:52 AM

CHRISISALL

BTW, y'all have seen this, right?
http://www.fireflyfans.net/sunroomitem.asp?i=12580

The man's phenominal.

Art appreciation Chrisisall

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Thursday, August 31, 2006 10:40 AM

RUGBUG

So, I watched Entropy again (well, most of it. I skipped through some of the Trio stuff). Xander's response is "I don't want to know this" and walks off. So, I can see how you got the guy learning his best friend is gay thing.

But really I think it's more of finding out someone you love has a huge, unpleasant secret thing. Like finding out our perfect parent is having an affair. It just obliterates your understanding of that person...and possibly your little world. Buffy sleeping with Spike IS pretty wrong. There is nothing good about that relationship (well, the sex was hot...or so it seemed, but even then it was still way twisted). She knows it and yet she still went to him, time and again. Xander, who has always had a problem with the harmless vampires and who is reeling from Spanya (heh), finds out Buffy, the heroine who has always made the hard decisions, isn't as strong and upstanding as he thought she was. "I don't want to know this" is a perfectly legitimate and expected response. It may not be the most accepting, but it's human.

***************
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

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Thursday, August 31, 2006 12:46 PM

MPHILLIPS

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
BTW, y'all have seen this, right?
http://www.fireflyfans.net/sunroomitem.asp?i=12580

The man's phenominal.

Art appreciation Chrisisall

thanks for the compliments, dude..
m(lurker)phillips

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