Where does Firefly take place? by Hans

As an astronomy student, I'd have to favor #2. you're right in saying that such a system as described in #1 is not impossible, but it would be VERY improbable. Even in a metal rich system where a binary system did NOT form (something that's more and more likely the more 'metals' you have in a system) there could still be only two or at most three terrestrial planets in the life belt while maintaining even remotely stable orbits. The huge number of moons involved again could be possible in a system like the #1 hypothesis describes, but it would require more than a few gas giants with fairly close orbits to the local star. Even then, however, 'hundreds' of moons that could be terraformed is going quite a stretch.

I would think it more likely that the series takes place in a tight cluster of stars further in towards the center of the galexy. There more stars and systems are likely to be metal rich, thus allowing for terrestial planets in the life belts of stars. Also, there clusters of stars are often found with mean distances between stars within the cluster of well under a light year. These clusters are not often stable in the long run, but the 'short-run' in this case is going to be a billion or two years. A young cluster would be both metal rich(thus providing ample resources for terraforming) and have stellar members that were astronomically close. a FTL drive would still be neccesary for practical travel, but the distances would then be small enough that the amount above C required would not be great, perhaps allowing primitive FTL drive to be good enough.

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Thursday, October 9, 2003 9:39 AM

You're right that, once you get too far outside the life belt, terraforming is not going to be enough to turn an uninhabitable world into a habitable one. During the run of the show there were mentioned almost 30 habitable moons and planets... God knows how many there would be now if the show kept running! That certainly supports the "many systems" theory.

I guess that, from a dramatic standpoint, I prefer the idea of "one system". So many TV shows ignore or bypass the huge problem of FTL travel, that I kind of hoped Firefly would address this by having the show confined to one star system.

Of course, that still brings us to the problem of how the Serenity and other ships solve the problem of FTL travel. That light speed barrier is pretty darn significant, and breaking it is not just a matter of putting a bigger rocket on the back of the ship. I would imagine it would have to be more than just some "flux capaciter" stuck in the corner of an engine room.

Also, whenever someone mentions distances from one planet to another on the show, it usually seems to be measured in hours, or at the most days (e.g. 10 hours from Jiangyin to Greenleaf in "Safe"). We don't know enough about the geography of Firefly to know how far they travel in those 10 hours (it could be inside the same system), but if they are travelling from one solar system to another that's pretty darn fast...

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Thursday, October 9, 2003 9:59 AM

I think they may have something similar to the jumpgates used on B5, or perhaps even FTL ferry ships.

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Thursday, October 9, 2003 11:18 PM

So, we have kind of a problem here. If Hypothesis #1 is true, then we ignore the problems associated with FTL, at the expense of an unrealistic solar system.

If Hypothesis #2 is correct, we get more realistic solar systems, but face the problem of FTL.

I go with #2 because of:
http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/gr-qc/0009013
http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/gr-qc/9905084

goto www.lanl.gov/find, search all archives for all years, and enter Warp Drive in the "Title" block of the form. There is a lot of serious research going on. (Not nearly as much as I would like)

"Wash, where is my damn spaceship?"

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Friday, October 10, 2003 1:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ZaphodB:
I think they may have something similar to the jumpgates used on B5, or perhaps even FTL ferry ships.

Possible, but either of these would be a huge part of any travel between worlds, and the fact that in none of the shows is there any mention of such a thing is what bothers me. I know, the absence of a mention doesn't mean they don't exist, but the more episodes you watch without a mention of them makes it more unrealistic.

(Also, I believe events in Out of Gas imply that their method of travel is entirely self-contained, with no external jump gates or wormholes. Can someone who's seen this episode recently confirm this?)

I'm not arguing that FTL does not exist in the show. It just makes me sad to think that, in 14 episodes, they never thought to resolve this issue. In many ways Firefly is more about people and drama then technology but, at the same time, they seemed to be trying to create a realistic universe. And if you check out the Technology section of the database, you'll see that a whole lot of other parts of the ship were identified...

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Friday, October 10, 2003 2:50 AM

It sounds like you and I have something in common, a low threshold of suspension of disbelief. You would think that if FTL were used, they would make mention of that fact, and I wish they would.

But, like you said, the show is about the characters and crew, not the technology. And for the most parts, it don't matter. We are not going to see a "particle of the week" or long string of technobabble like we've come to enjoy on Star Trek. The tech is obviously advanced enough that it is little thought about.

Besides, how often do you get into real world conversations about the intricasies of the Internal Combustion Engine? Its a very obsequeous part of life on planet Earth, but a lot of folks don't know much about it, and talk about it even less.

"Wash, where is my damn spaceship?"

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Friday, October 10, 2003 10:30 AM

Well, I'm all right. - Mal

Actually, Book says "Puts you about, eight sectors away from your jurisdiction?" in The message (I checked), so there's no evidence for FTL travel. The closest is when Mal narates "Terraformed a whole new galaxy of Earths", but that could just be captain dummy talk.
--
I am Jack's username
"Were there monkeys? Some terrifying space monkeys maybe got loose?" - Mal

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Friday, October 10, 2003 11:02 AM

TUDYKSGAGREEL

It only really makes sense that its number 2. For there to be a solar system that large there would have to be plenty of suns to allow the rim planets to be heated. And also if they only traveled within the same solar system then every single shot of the ship flyin through space would have to have the sun in frame to make sense because if you cant see it theyre obviously not in the solar system. As for FTL argument i agree wit the fact that its not mentioned because the characters hav no reason to mention it. When ya drive your car ye dont talk about what runs the engine

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Friday, October 10, 2003 11:38 AM

Well, I'm all right. - Mal

tudyksgagreel, when travelling near Mars, Europa, or Titan, the sun wouldn't look like it does from Earth's surface, it would only look like a very bright star.

Also, we can observe rocky planets in only one star system, our own solar system. There could be planet/moon configurations around other stars we've never even imagined, including ones with many Terraformable planets.

--
I am Jack's username
"Were there monkeys? Some terrifying space monkeys maybe got loose?" - Mal

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Friday, October 10, 2003 11:42 AM

One thing to remember is that we still have no idea how the ships main drive really works. We know she has a pair of drives that look at least related to modern-day jet engines. But the main drive that they use off-planet is still a mystery. the only things we really know about it is that it takes fuel of some kind and that it turns, oh and it does REALLY bad things when used in atmosphere. It could be that this main drive that makes the firefly glow is, at least partly, a FTL drive.

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Friday, October 10, 2003 1:50 PM

ALIENZOOKEEPER

Hypothesis #1. Firefly is set in a single solar system (not Earth's) with many planets and moons in the system.

Hypothesis #2. Firefly takes place over many solar systems.

I like hypothesis one for several reasons- it sets Firefly apart from almost every other SF show set in outer space. Also, a solar system is a big place. Counting up all the moons & planets in our solar system, there are about a hundred (check out 95 Worlds & Counting, if it reruns on Discovery or TLC) Sure the terraforming engineering is impossible for us to imagine, but the characters on the show take artificial gravity & a more or less reliable life support system tied to their main engine for granted.

Anyway, kudos for Joss making us work for it & not force-feeding us technobable. It's almost a year since the show 'went on hiatus' & people are still talking about what it means. I have my own opinion-

"Human beings can live anywhere there is mass & energy"- Robert Anson Heinlein

vincent the alien zookeeper
(No aliens? What do you mean, no aliens!?)

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Friday, October 10, 2003 3:46 PM

LUXLUCRE

I'm going to throw out my theory viz-a-viz the question of the spacial system in Firefly one stellar system or a number of close solar systems.
I first posted this message to the GURPS Firefly Yahoo group on Feb 9, 2003 ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GURPS-Firefly)

I think it resonable that they are talking about a single star system, and would go further in postulating that the sun may likely be a blue star, since they are the hottest and consequently have the largest habitable zone for planets.

Check this site: http://www.angelfire.com/on2/daviddarling/habzone.htm

Here are the important bits, In my opinion:
====================================
habitable zone (HZ): An imaginary spherical shell surrounding a star throughout which the surface temperatures of any planets present might be conducive to the origin and development of life as we know it. Also referred to as the ecosphere.

The HZ of a highly luminous star would in principle be very wide, its inner margin beginning perhaps several hundred million km out [Comment: Let's say the orbit of Mars] and stretching to a distance of a billion km or more [Comment: around the orbit of Jupiter].
However, this promising scenario is spoiled by the fact that massive, bright stars are much more short-lived than their smaller, dimmer cousins. In the case of the giant O stars and B stars, these very massive objects race through their life-cycles in only a few tens of millions of years-too quickly to allow even primitive life-forms to emerge.
========================================

The last speculation is moot in any case, seeing as we are actively terraforming planets, not waiting for them to develop life on their own. I seems to me that the habitable zone around a hot white or blue (O or B) sun would give us plenty of space to establish hundreds of planets that would support life, with no fear of their orbits crashing into each other.

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Friday, October 10, 2003 5:46 PM

The whole thing about FTL vs One System is an interesting debate. But, since only 13 episodes aired, who knows what Joss had up his sleeve regarding the background of this 'verse. Maybe the world-building was the next thing on his agenda.

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Friday, October 10, 2003 10:43 PM

The whole "rim/core" planet thing I think is being misunderstood. It does not mean physically, but politically. Core planets, like Ariel and Persephone are where the government is. Out on the rim is another way of saying "frontier"

"Wash, where is my damn spaceship?"

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Saturday, October 11, 2003 4:52 AM

TUDYKSGAGREEL

it cant be a single solar system if it was then most of the planets would be ice worlds, i mean pluto is hardly a sauna cos its too far from the sun

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Saturday, October 11, 2003 7:34 AM

MANIACNUMBERONE

...only if you assume that a single solar system has only one sun. We must allow for multiple suns in a single system.

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Tuesday, October 14, 2003 1:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by IamJacksUsername:
Actually, Book says "Puts you about, eight sectors away from your jurisdiction?" in The message (I checked), so there's no evidence for FTL travel.

I haven't seen the episode yet, and was going by the script posted on this site, where he did say "solar systems". If this was changed for the episode during shooting then I'd be very happy, as it takes away the strongest evidence in favour of the "many systems" theory, and the fact that the producers cared enough to change it implies that that the "single system" theory is closer to reality.

(Has anyone actually seen this episode? I thought it was one of the unaired episodes...I know they haven't reached it yet on the Space reruns. Was it shown in the UK?)

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Tuesday, October 14, 2003 2:05 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by LuxLucre:
I'm going to throw out my theory viz-a-viz the question of the spacial system in Firefly one stellar system or a number of close solar systems.
I first posted this message to the GURPS Firefly Yahoo group on Feb 9, 2003 ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GURPS-Firefly)

I think it resonable that they are talking about a single star system, and would go further in postulating that the sun may likely be a blue star, since they are the hottest and consequently have the largest habitable zone for planets.

Check this site: http://www.angelfire.com/on2/daviddarling/habzone.htm

Thanks for the great research! It seems that a system big enough to have the requisite number of worlds in the life zone is rare, but maybe not impossible.

We also don't know enough about terraforming to know how far from the life zone a world can be before it's impossible to transform. Maybe a heavy enough greenhouse effect can keep a planet outside the LZ warm enough for life? Combined with nanomachines released into the atmosphere, soil, and water, plus maybe some industrial sized processors, plus maybe some orbital mirrors for extra heat and light...who knows?

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Tuesday, October 14, 2003 3:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Drakon:
Besides, how often do you get into real world conversations about the intricasies of the Internal Combustion Engine? Its a very obsequeous part of life on planet Earth, but a lot of folks don't know much about it, and talk about it even less.

A person can see with their own eyes a car driving on the road and extrapolate how it travels, even if they don't know the details of how the engine works. However, we don't see the Serenity entering a jump gate, or a wormhole, or bending space, or anything like that. I don't need to know the technical details of how it works, but we do need to know what is happening.

Quote:
Originally posted by tudyksgagreel:
As for FTL argument i agree wit the fact that its not mentioned because the characters hav no reason to mention it. When ya drive your car ye dont talk about what runs the engine

You say nobody talks about the inner working of an internal combustion engine. That's true. But, if a TV show showed someone driving a car in New York one week, then the same car in London the next week, then Toronto the next, then Paris the next, eventually you'd start to ask how they leap-frog the ocean every week? Are you putting your car on a boat? In a plane? Is it an amphibious car?

Just as the ocean is a significant barrier to a car, the distances between worlds for a conventional starship is also significant. Leapfrogging the ocean isn't just a matter of getting a faster car, it requires a whole different manner of transportation. Likewise, jumping from star system to star system in hours or days is not just a matter of putting a bigger rocket on the back of your ship. It requires a whole new system of propulsion to overcome the problems of FTL travel.

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Tuesday, October 14, 2003 4:32 AM

CHARLIEMOUSE

Yeah, i agree. Im all good with suspension of disbelief, but i like to know what it is im suspending about. If its a super fast engine that allows flt travel ('cos it just does) then thats shiny. I just want to know. Since some of the best physicists in the world cant it i dont begrudge joss for not giving us intricate workings and schematics. And what i really dont want is half hour diatribes of Geordi LaForge BS about tachion fields and Heisenberg Compensators.

Personally i go for hypothesis two, for example with the reavers living on the rim, looking out into the black, makes more sense to me if its the rim of the galaxy. Also, the political distinctiion of the cluster of planets originally terraformed, and then people spreading out the frontier every which way fits nicely with a spiral galaxy (in my head anyway). I do also quite like the idea of large scale travel - but then being unable to jump the distances between galaxies. Leaves some things a mystery (or at least never to be dealt with).

"as with other situations, the key seems to be giving Jayne a heavy stick and standing back"

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Tuesday, October 14, 2003 8:04 AM

TRAGICSTORY

Quote:
You say nobody talks about the inner working of an internal combustion engine. That's true. But, if a TV show showed someone driving a car in New York one week, then the same car in London the next week, then Toronto the next, then Paris the next, eventually you'd start to ask how they leap-frog the ocean every week? Are you putting your car on a boat? In a plane? Is it an amphibious car?

I personally believe that thier ships work like cars. They go 30 miles around town and 90 miles on the freeway when they need to get somewhere. Like fighter jets and afterburners to have a more apropriate analogy.

-----------
"Societies are supported by human activity, therefore they are constantly threatened by the human facts of self-intrest and stupidity." --Peter Berger

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Tuesday, October 14, 2003 2:42 PM

Well, I'm all right. - Mal

Quote:
Has anyone actually seen [The message]? I thought it was one of the unaired episodes...I know they haven't reached it yet on the Space reruns. Was it shown in the UK?
-- Hans

I taped it - that's how I checked. I think the only place that the episodes Trash, The message, and Heart of gold wern't broadcast with the rest, was the USA (coming to Canada on Space). See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefly_(television)#Airing_and_cancellat
ion for its international airing info.

There are (illegal) copies available for download on the 'net.
--
I am Jack's username
"Were there monkeys? Some terrifying space monkeys maybe got loose?" - Mal

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Tuesday, October 14, 2003 10:40 PM

Quote:
I just want to know.

Me too! Sadly, the series was cut short (Damn Faux) and we may never know for sure.

But on the other hand, it does not really matter for the purposes of the show. What we know is that there are a lot of places for our favorite ship to fly to, within its range, whatever that range is. It does not matter whether they are in the same star system, or different star systems, or what.

I'd like to know to, and I have to admit, I am hoping that it is FTL. But it does not really matter.

BTW: does anyone have the map they made up for the press kit? And is there any way of getting a scan of that map?

"Wash, where is my damn spaceship?"

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Wednesday, October 15, 2003 9:32 AM

FRANCO

Based on what I have read and seen, I would have to go with #2.

In a series that is more about characters and relationships than scifi technology sometimes the best way to deal with a problem is to ignore it (FTL and gravity). As a hard scifi fan this is not neccessarily how I would like it to be but it beats some dumb explanation and allows you to speculate on your own.

Regarding FTL, I am one of those that believes that the mass and energy implications are insurmountable but who knows, new science bring new solutions.

My own theory on how we will populate the galaxy is that we will extend human life to the point that it changes our perception of time.

Could this be applied to Firefly? I doubt it. I am certain that's not what the writers had in mind but a life span of x-thousand years would allow sub-C interstellar travel and answer questions related to the time required for terraforming.

Companions the creator seeks, not corpses, not herds and believers. Fellow creators the creator seeks -- those who write new values on new tablets. Companions the the creator seeks, and fellow harvesters; for everything about him is ripe for the harvest.
Nietzsche, Thus Spoke Zarathustra

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Wednesday, October 15, 2003 9:41 AM

CHARLIEMOUSE

Hmmm. Getting less sure about the galaxy idea. Was just rewatching the train job. At the end of it those pesky blue handed types talk about travelling 86 million miles in the tone of voice that suggests this is a pretty damn long way (which is kinda understandable i suppose). But even in our own little solar system 86 million miles isnt going to get you very far. Maybe its just some weird solar system with loads of really close together planets and moons - although for all i know that might be physically impossible with all kinds of gravity implications. Or then perhaps not. Or perhaps i should just stop talking about things i blatantly don't understand.

Screw it - they fly, they get there, they do the job and then they (usually) get paid.

"as with other situations, the key seems to be giving Jayne a heavy stick and standing back"

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Wednesday, October 15, 2003 10:54 AM

In a deleted scene from Our Mrs Reynolds, Mal mentions that there are more than 70 'little earths' spinning 'round the galaxy. That's seems to be a rather large number for a single star system, even if it's a binary one.

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Wednesday, October 15, 2003 3:54 PM

HOBBES

Just pointing out that reflected heat off a gas giant may be enough to support life.

My (non-FTL) theory:
Assume a multiple star system (i.e. something similar in principle to the Alpha Centuari system (3 stars, although in this case they sould all be G-Class stars passing the 5-point promising place to live test)) with at least 2-4 planets around each G class star (Venus, Earth, Mars, equivilants - too hot, just right, too cold but terraformed so now they're livable) that gives you core worlds - as many as 12.

2-3 gas giants around each star each with at least a dozen moons, probably more, gives you anywhere from 70 to a couple of hundred moons assuming most can be terraformed and given artifical gravity. There are the middle worlds in the closer gas giants and as the gas giants get further away from the star it gets you rim worlds.

Reavers are hanging out in the space between Pluto-ish equvivilant and the Oort cloud (The Oort cloud is an immense spherical cloud surrounding the planetary system and it exists approximately 30 trillion kilometers out).

I think that is the best I can come up with right now. Anyone able to improve on it? I'm sure my grasp isn't perfect here.

-------------------------------------------------
May the road rise to meet you.
May the wind be always at your back.
May you be in heaven an hour before
The Devil knows you’re dead.

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Thursday, October 16, 2003 5:08 AM

ZEKE023

I actually asked this question on the main board. One of the writers was over there.

He claimed to have absolutely no idea of where the show took place and that no one ever specified. However, it was his assumption that based on the information he had as a writer that the show took place in multiple solar systems.

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Thursday, October 16, 2003 12:03 PM

FRANCO

Quote:
Originally posted by LuxLucre:
I think it resonable that they are talking about a single star system, and would go further in postulating that the sun may likely be a blue star, since they are the hottest and consequently have the largest habitable zone for planets.

However, this promising scenario is spoiled by the fact that massive, bright stars are much more short-lived than their smaller, dimmer cousins. In the case of the giant O stars and B stars, these very massive objects race through their life-cycles in only a few tens of millions of years-too quickly to allow even primitive life-forms to emerge.
========================================
The last speculation is moot in any case, seeing as we are actively terraforming planets, not waiting for them to develop life on their own. I seems to me that the habitable zone around a hot white or blue (O or B) sun would give us plenty of space to establish hundreds of planets that would support life, with no fear of their orbits crashing into each other.

But where is the home planet? Since no life (much less intelligent life) can evolve in the life span of a rare type O (or the other hot classes)
you would need to assume that there was interstellar travel to get them in the neighborhood. You would also need to assume that they would choose to colonize a hot star with a lot of hot radiated rocks over the G classes with the possibility of more advanced ecosystems.

I would like to have definitive answers on the Firefly propulsion systems but it goes without saying that any civilization with the ability to terraform worlds in less than hundreds of years may have also solved the problems of FTL

Franco

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Thursday, October 16, 2003 1:04 PM

LUXLUCRE

Quote:
Originally posted by franco:
But where is the home planet? Since no life (much less intelligent life) can evolve in the life span of a rare type O (or the other hot classes)
you would need to assume that there was interstellar travel to get them in the neighborhood. You would also need to assume that they would choose to colonize a hot star with a lot of hot radiated rocks over the G classes with the possibility of more advanced ecosystems.

I would like to have definitive answers on the Firefly propulsion systems but it goes without saying that any civilization with the ability to terraform worlds in less than hundreds of years may have also solved the problems of FTL

Franco

Yes, to get from Earth WOULD take colony ships, either FTL or multi-generation sub-light ships.

Sirius is about 23 times as bright as our sun, 2.35 times its mass and 1.8 times our sun's diameter. The star is a brilliant white with a definite tinge of blue in color. Only 8.7 light years from the Earth, Sirius is the fifth nearest star to us.

Half light speed would get us there in less than 20 years.

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Thursday, October 16, 2003 8:47 PM

Do the keplerian math for planets in a multi star system, even in the centautri system, the gravitational forces are much too irregular to allow for any kind of stable orbit. Any rocky planet found in such a star system would almost certainly be a captured planet, and in any case wouldn't stay there long. Multi-start systems don't have planets for long, gravity doesn't let them.

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Thursday, October 16, 2003 8:48 PM

Also, look at data from Galileo and you'll see that more heat is emitted from gas giants than is reflected, and that isn't near enough to support surface life of the type we see in FF

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Thursday, October 16, 2003 8:52 PM

FRANCO

Quote:
Originally posted by LuxLucre:
Quote:
Originally posted by franco:
But where is the home planet? Since no life (much less intelligent life) can evolve in the life span of a rare type O (or the other hot classes)
you would need to assume that there was interstellar travel to get them in the neighborhood. You would also need to assume that they would choose to colonize a hot star with a lot of hot radiated rocks over the G classes with the possibility of more advanced ecosystems.

I would like to have definitive answers on the Firefly propulsion systems but it goes without saying that any civilization with the ability to terraform worlds in less than hundreds of years may have also solved the problems of FTL

Franco

Yes, to get from Earth WOULD take colony ships, either FTL or multi-generation sub-light ships.

Sirius is about 23 times as bright as our sun, 2.35 times its mass and 1.8 times our sun's diameter. The star is a brilliant white with a definite tinge of blue in color. Only 8.7 light years from the Earth, Sirius is the fifth nearest star to us.

Half light speed would get us there in less than 20 years.

That makes sense and by the references to "Earth That Was", they didn't have a lot of choice about leaving Earth, it was toast. Sirius would be an obvious sub-C destination.

The series database also mentions 2 large planets and lots of little Planets (moons). That sounds like it could be a single system.

I would be a bit troubled (but not deterred) by the fast terraforming and gravity management by a civilization that had not solved FTL.

But then, there is this from the series database

Quote:
On Serenity, crew and passengers live together in close quarters as they shuttle between the Alliance-governed galaxy and the border planets that delineate the new frontier. The crew undertakes almost any job -- legal or not -- to stay afloat and put bread on the table. Each of the passengers has his or her own motivation for being on board - some honorable, some more questionable. All have unique pasts and different reasons for wanting to get to their destination.

That might seem to clinch it for #2 but the possibility remains that we know more about space than the writers and when they said galaxy they meant something else. :) Based on some of the interviews with the writers it seems to be something they hadn't given a lot of thought.

Franco

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Thursday, October 16, 2003 11:43 PM

Ya know, in a separate thread, someone is selling their press kit. He mentions a star chart, which would answer all our questions pretty quick.

"Wash, where is my damn spaceship?"

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Thursday, October 16, 2003 11:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by CptBuck25:
Do the keplerian math for planets in a multi star system, even in the centautri system, the gravitational forces are much too irregular to allow for any kind of stable orbit. Any rocky planet found in such a star system would almost certainly be a captured planet, and in any case wouldn't stay there long. Multi-start systems don't have planets for long, gravity doesn't let them.

Actually, this has lately been shown to be false. Benest and others have studied the orbital characteristics of binary star systems, Alpha Centauri in particular. You CAN have stable near circular long term (billions of years) orbits inside the habitablity zones of BOTH Alpha A and Alpha B.

Alpha Centauri may be a unique case, their closest separation is about 11 AUs. There is a zone of instable orbits dependent on the minimum separation of the stars. In a zone of about 0.23 to about 3 AUs minimum separation, stable orbits don't exist. At least not inside the habitable zone which is all we care about anyway. (See Heacox and Gathright, Astron J. Sept. 1994)

Granted we are talking computer simulations, but as the force of gravity and cestial mechanics is pretty well understood, this looks right.

So, in other words, it is highly possible for Alpha Centauri A and B to hold habitable planets.

"Wash, where is my damn spaceship?"

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Tuesday, October 21, 2003 8:14 PM

Somebody posted pics of the contents of the Firefly Press Kit recently (Thanks Dockingbay97!). One of the items in the kit is an Alliance starmap which prominently features a planetary nebula with the designation of NGC (New General Catelogue) 3242. It is also known as "The Ghost of Jupiter". It lies approximately 1400 light years from Earth. A picture of it can be found here:
http://apod.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap970331.html

Anyways, so my take on this is that humans have expanded outward from Earth at least 1400 light years in distance by the year 2517 (Date given in the opening credits). I don't know if it was all in one direction, or in all directions. It does make for a strong argument that FTL travel (or wormhole travel) exists in the Firefly 'verse because at near lightspeed velocities, ships would take to damn long to get anywhere that far, let alone in 500 years time.

Of course your mileage may vary.

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Tuesday, October 21, 2003 8:50 PM

BRTICK

space. firefly takes place in space.

Keep Flying!

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Tuesday, October 21, 2003 9:34 PM

SOUTHERNMERC

Just took a look at the star map photo that guy is selling in his press kit. That there is a galaxy my friend.

Oh, my 2cents. If a civilization has mastered artificial gravity, anti-gravity, and complete terraforming, I find it hard to believe that civilization hasn't found FTL.

Could it be one star system? Sure, there is more to this 'verse than I have seen, certainly. Is it very likely? I'd have to say no.

Jayne: "How big a room?"

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Wednesday, October 22, 2003 5:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SouthernMerc:
Just took a look at the star map photo that guy is selling in his press kit. That there is a galaxy my friend.

If that map is official then yes, you're right, it must be set over several systems. However, that's still a big "if". First of all, from that one small photograph it's hard to tell any detail or make any assuptions about what it's showing. It could be just a star chart used for local navigation (the same way a sailor today might have a star chart). It doesn't mean my yacht can travel to Alpha Centauri... :)

Secondly, we don't know if this is an official map, created as part of a series bible, or something thrown together by some person in PR assembling the press kit, using generic maps downloaded from the internet. If we can see a larger picture (pretty please) and we see distinct star systems with the names from the show, that's pretty strong evidence.

Quote:
Originally posted by SouthernMerc:
Oh, my 2cents. If a civilization has mastered artificial gravity, anti-gravity, and complete terraforming, I find it hard to believe that civilization hasn't found FTL.

Very possible. My problem wasn't so much that I didn't think they could master FTL, I just thought it was wierd that we never found out how they mastered it (as I stated above, FTL travel is more then just a bigger rocket on the back of your ship).

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Wednesday, October 22, 2003 6:55 AM

Quote:
Just took a look at the star map photo that guy is selling in his press kit. That there is a galaxy my friend.

A galaxy? Heh, no kidding. Part of the galaxy the by the way it looks to me. The Milky Way to be exact. Anyways, in one of the photos it's identified as a map of the Planetary Nebula NGC 3242, but it looks more like a map of several star systems since the star at the center of NGC 3242 is a white dwarf. I'd love to see a larger version of the picture or a scan of the map itself. It looks like an interesting bit of promotional stuff.

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Wednesday, October 22, 2003 10:07 AM

I just realised why I feel so sure the show takes place in just one system.

Watch an episode. Any episode. Listen to them talk about where they are going, where they were, where someone is from...

...and all they seem to talk about is planets and moons. You never here someone say "I just came from the Ariel system". You never here talk about suns or stars. It's always planets and moons.

Okay, okay, this is hardly definitive. It could be just common practice in the Firefly universe to refer to a system by the name of the planet. But it does seem to be one huge gap.

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Wednesday, October 22, 2003 11:21 AM

KAYTHRYN

Quote:
Posted by Hans:
You never here someone say "I just came from the Ariel system".

True, but you do hear...

"All network alert. Cargo theft. Medical shipment
lifted off a train in the Georgia System en route to Paradiso." --Train job

and

"Puts you about eight solar systems away from your jurisdiction..." --Book, The message.

Oh, I'm a quote slut.

-------------------------------------
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
Aristotle

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Wednesday, October 22, 2003 12:56 PM

MAGUINAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Kaythryn:

"Puts you about eight solar systems away from your jurisdiction..." --Book, The message.

Although I'm totally on the "whole galaxy of earths" side of the fence and I worship Kayt to the point of idolatry, I think she's got the Book quote wrong. My copy of The Message has Book saying "puts you about eight sectors away from your jurisdiction..." And since sectors could mean anything, maybe that's not the best quote in support of our position.

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Wednesday, October 22, 2003 12:59 PM

MANIACNUMBERONE

Damn, that's some excellent quote research there Kayt. How many more can you come up with? And how do you do it? Do you have all the episodes in a word processing program so that you can search for specific words, or is it as I think and you have simply memorized more quotes than are reasonable for anyone to memorize?

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Wednesday, October 22, 2003 1:08 PM

Well, I'm all right. - Mal

> "Puts you about eight solar systems away from your
> jurisdiction..." --Book, The message.
> Oh, I'm a quote slut.
> -- KAYTHRYN

Actually, Book says "Puts you about, eight sectors away from your jurisdiction?" in The message. Watch it again. What is shown is surely canonical, and not early scripts.

I don't have a copy of The train job, but saying "off a train in the Georgia System en route to Paradiso", where Georgia is a star system, seems odd; kind of like "off a train in the solar system en route to Liverpool."

> If a civilization has mastered artificial
> gravity, anti-gravity, and complete
> terraforming, I find it hard to believe that
> civilization hasn't found FTL.
> -- SouthernMerc

That's a fallacy: there might not be a relation. Just because light bulbs and cars can be invented, doesn't mean that supernatural things like ghost ships can therefore be invented.

See also TheObsoleteMan's summary at < http://fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=2345#23235> and (re: NGC 3242) Wikipedia's white dwarf article at < http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/white_dwarf>.
--
I am Jack's username
Monarch (Firefly sim): http://tenforward.slasims.com/viewforum.php?f=104

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Wednesday, October 22, 2003 1:10 PM

KAYTHRYN

Ah, quite right, Mag.

I bow down to thee.

When I think about it Book did say sectors. I take back the systems bit. And Maniac, I'm just a freakin' genius but that quote was taken straight from Whoa, Good Myth.

http://firefly.shriftweb.org/index.shtml

You can see the quote from The Train Job there too.

-------------------------------------
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
Aristotle

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Thursday, October 23, 2003 1:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by IamJacksUsername:
[B> If a civilization has mastered artificial
> gravity, anti-gravity, and complete
> terraforming, I find it hard to believe that
> civilization hasn't found FTL.
> -- SouthernMerc

That's a fallacy: there might not be a relation. Just because light bulbs and cars can be invented, doesn't mean that supernatural things like ghost ships can therefore be invented.

Quite right. In fact, there's plenty of low-tech in the Firefly universe (the weaponry used by the malcontents, plus the general look of the ship itself, plus all the backward colonies). It's hard to make any assumptions about the tech level except "it varies".

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Thursday, October 23, 2003 1:49 AM