Lost in French Translation, Part 03: Bushwhacked by fortinm

FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

Lost in French Translation, Part 03: Bushwhacked

POSTED BY: FORTINM
UPDATED: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 00:16
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 3451
PAGE 1 of 1

Friday, November 16, 2007 3:33 PM

This review is part of a series of articles analysing the translation work for the French dubbed Firefly series and movie(s). It is intended for anyone who would like to know a little better how a French audience would perceive Joss’ wonderful creation.

Introduction to this series: http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=4&t=31382
Previous review (The Train Job): http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=4&t=31461
Next review (Shindig): http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=4&t=31582

The various excerpts analyses are formatted like this:
In bold is the original line.
In italic is the French translation replacing the original lines.
In bold and italic is my English translation of the French lines.
In regular text is my personal comment on the translation work for the excerpt.

General comments
Another good translation work for this episode. Of course, considering that there is less dialog and humour in it, one would expect such a result.

For a second time in a row, most of the Chinese lines have been preserved. However, there are a few mildly important omissions or errors, so I'm not giving it a perfect score.

As a side note, in this episode I noticed that quite a few "Sir" said by Zoe have been replaced by "Mal". It lessens the respectful and military attitude of Zoe towards Mal. I'll try to keep this fact in mind when reviewing future episodes. I'm curious to see if this is prevalent throughout the series.

The Chinese roster:
Kept - When Jayne sees the derelict ship.
Kept - When Mal finds the corpses.
Omitted - When Wash asks about the gun shots over the com.
Kept - When Wash learns of the attacker's identity.
Kept - When Mal learns about the survivor's mutilation.
Kept - Back on the bridge, when Jayne refers to Harken.

Translation score: 4/5
Chinese score: 5/6

Chosen Excerpts

SIMON and INARA
- I don't know if I'll be able to help her here. And I need to help her.
- Simon, you are.
- Je ne sais pas comment je vais pouvoir l'aider. Je me sens tellement coupable.
- Ne dites pas ça voyons!
- I don't know how I will help her. I feel so guilty.
- Don't say that!
This is a significant addition to this character's psychology. I don't think he ever expressed this kind of guilt in the series.

JAYNE
Then he decided to take a swim, see how fast his blood would boil out his ears.
Quand il s'est retrouvé seul, il s'est tellement ennuyé qu'il a voulu voir du paysage.
When he found himself alone, he got so bored that he decided to explore the landscape.
No comments.

MAL
That ship was hit by Reavers.
Son vaisseau a été attaqué par des Ravageurs.
His ship has been attacked by Ravagers.
The problem is that they used the word "Termite" in the pilot, not "Ravageur".

MAL
Reavers might take issue with that philosophy. If they had a philosophy. And if they weren't too busy gnawing on your insides.
C'est une philosophie qui ferait rire les Ravageurs, s'ils avaient une philosophie au lieu de passer leur temps à massacrer les autres.
It's a philosophy that would make the Ravagers laugh, if they had a philosophy instead of passing their time slaughtering others.
The important allusion to cannibalism is missing.

MAL
Reavers sometimes leave 'em behind for the rescue ships.
Les Reavers en posent quand ils quittent un vaisseau.
The Reavers sometimes install them when they leave a ship.
Talk about confusing the audience! What's a Reaver? I thought they were called "Termite"... No! Wait... "Ravageur". Of course, the context is clear and the viewer should easily make the connection.

BOOK
Don't be a fool, son.
N'aie pas peur, mon fils.
Don't be afraid, son.
No comments.

HARKEN
Siblings. Adult siblings.
Et j'ai parlé d'adultes. Il est médecin.
And I talked about adults. He's a doctor.
No comments.

SOLDIER
(Silence) (When he reports what he has seen in the infirmary.)
Monsieur. Infirmerie.
Sir. Infirmary.
This scene in French is slightly strange. These two words are uttered very clearly and loudly, but we don't hear any other words. Hardly enough for Harken to understand what happened.

ZOE
Fight with him sometimes, too.
Ça m'arrive très régulièrement.
It happens very regularly.
It seems that French people are more prone to domestic fighting!

ZOE
We're very private people.
Il s'agit de ma vie privée.
It concerns my private life.
It lessens the humour of Wash's interrogation that immediately follows.

WASH
Have you ever been with a warrior woman?
La souplesse d'une femme guerrière, je vous raconte pas.
The flexibility of a warrior woman, you can't imagine.
This is more funny in French, but, I had some troubles translating "je vous raconte pas". It's an expression that conveys a variety of emotions and meanings. I don't think that "you can't imagine" does it justice.

MAL
May have been on the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.
On a pu perdre la bataille, mais la cause est restée bonne.
We may have lost the battle, but the cause remained good.
A great retort slightly dumbed down in French.

(In French, you can hear no screams during the survivor's attack on the medical personnel.)

RIVER (to Simon, upon their return inside the ship)
Coming back.
Il ne revient pas.
He's not coming back.
This is supposed to be an indication of River's ability to sense the survivor's return. It was spoiled by inversing its meaning in French.

ENSIGN
(We don't understand what he's saying to Harken.)
Le blessé, il s'est enfui de l'infirmerie. Il a disparu.
The wounded, he escaped from the infirmary. He disappeared.
They've done it again! Inventing a piece of dialog where there is none in the original version. Strange!

That's it. Thanks for reading!

Michel

Edit: Various corrections following Asarian's comments.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, November 16, 2007 3:58 PM

RALLEM

Thank you very much for this. I only have a comment to one translation at this time.

BOOK
Don't be a fool, son.
N'aie pas peur, mon fils.
Don't be afraid, son.
No comments.

Actually I think this translation is pretty good considering if my recollection serves me well that Book was talking to Simon who thought Mal was going to turn him over. Actually I would say the French translation serves the scene better than the English lines, but I don’t know if they serve Book’s personality better.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, November 16, 2007 10:43 PM

TRAVELER

I always liked watching Japanese movies translated to English. They have some very interesting phrases that are not related to anything we, meaning us North Americans, would say. The poor translaters gets lost in their attempts to provide the proper meaning.

I have been told English is a hard language to learn. I don't know if it is because our words have more than one meaning and this confuses the translater or it may be our sentence structure. I remember taking some Spanish in sixth grade and the nouns and verbs were, for me anyway, in the wrong part of the sentence. I never took another language course after that experience.

http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=28764731
Traveler

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, November 17, 2007 1:49 PM

ASARIAN

Quote:
Originally posted by fortinm:

Another fine job you did, Monsieur! :) A few comments, though.

Quote:

MAL
That ship was hit by Reavers.
Son vaisseau a été attaqué par des ravageurs.
His ship has been attacked by devastators.
The problem is that they used the word "Termite" in the pilot, not "Ravageur".

Actually, I like "Ravageur" a lot. :) It's phonetically a lot closer to "Reaver" than "Termite" (plus, I can't help but think of termites with that one, lol). But where did ya get "devastators"?? 'Ravagers' is a perfectly legit English word. :)

Quote:

MAL
Reavers might take issue with that philosophy. If they had a philosophy. And if they weren't too busy gnawing on your insides.
C'est une philosophie qui ferait rire les ravageurs, s'ils avaient une philosophie au lieu de passer leur temps à massacrer les autres.
It's a philosophy that would make the devastators laugh, if they had a philosophy instead of always slaughtering others.

Lit. "...instead of passing their time slaughtering others."

Quote:

ZOE
We're very private people.
Il s'agit de ma vie privée.
It's my private life.

Lit. "It concerns my private life." I don't like it, though. Zoe's original comment just means something like: "We keep to ourselves," whereas "It concerns my privite life." feels too much like "None of your business." It's close, but no cigar.

Quote:

WASH
Have you ever been with a warrior woman?
La souplesse d'une femme guerrière, je vous raconte pas.
The flexibility of a warrior woman, you can't imagine.
This is more funny in French, but, I had some troubles translating "je vous raconte pas". It's an expression that conveys a variety of emotions and meanings. I don't think that "you
can't imagine" does it justice.

Actually, I think it's a lot better in English. :) The French spells out a likely meaning, whereas the English, rightly so, leaves it to the imagination of the listener.

As for "je vous raconte pas", I think you're being too hard on yourself. :) I believe "you can't imagine" does it justice pretty well. It's kinda like what Inara said: "Words can't capture it." Had I to translate "je vous raconte pas" back to English, in this context, I would probably not have translated it at all, lol, for maximum effect; like:

"The flexibility of a warrior woman, well..."

Quote:

MAL
May have been on the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.
On a pu perdre la bataille, mais la cause est restée bonne.
We may have lost the battle, but the cause was good.

Why use a Past Tense? Lit. "We may have lost the battle, but the cause remained just/good." That much better conveys Mal's notion that he's currently still not convinced his was the wrong side.

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, November 17, 2007 2:05 PM

RALLEM

Asarian wrote:

Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MAL
May have been on the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.
On a pu perdre la bataille, mais la cause est restée bonne.
We may have lost the battle, but the cause was good.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why use a Past Tense? Lit. "We may have lost the battle, but the cause (has) remained just." That much better conveys Mal's notion that he's currently still not convinced his was the wrong side.

I think the past tense is proper because the Lieutenant said that Mal was on the losing side, and Mal’s reply was in a past tense as well. “…still not convinced it was the wrong one.”

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, November 17, 2007 2:18 PM

ASARIAN

Quote:
Originally posted by rallem:

I think the past tense is proper because the Lieutenant said that Mal was on the losing side, and Mal’s reply was in a past tense as well. "still not convinced it was the wrong one."

Well, the point was that "but the cause remained just/good" indicates that the cause remained good after they lost the battle (which is what Mal still believes to date). "But the cause was good" does not convey that same sense of continuation after the fact.

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, November 17, 2007 2:23 PM

RALLEM

I think that by saying the cause was good, that Mal's character automatically implies that he still feels that way.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, November 17, 2007 2:28 PM

ASARIAN

Quote:
Originally posted by rallem:

I think that by saying the cause was good, that Mal's character automatically implies that he still feels that way.

Could be that's true (which it is, of course). But I believe the French said "est restée bonne" for good reason, instead of "était bonne".

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, November 17, 2007 2:35 PM

RALLEM

Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:
Quote:
Originally posted by rallem:

I think that by saying the cause was good, that Mal's character automatically implies that he still feels that way.

Could be that's true (which it is, of course). But I believe the French said "est restée bonne" for good reason, instead of "était bonne".

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

You definately have me at an advantage, since I don't speak the language and am only accepting what has been said here as true.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, November 19, 2007 3:37 PM

FORTINM

Quote:
Actually, I like "Ravageur" a lot. :) It's phonetically a lot closer to "Reaver" than "Termite" (plus, I can't help but think of termites with that one, lol). But where did ya get "devastators"?? 'Ravagers' is a perfectly legit English word. :)

I'm with you there. I also think "Ravageur" is better than "Termite". Too bad they didn't think of it in the pilot. I didn't realize I could use "Ravager" as a translation. With your (implicit!) permission, I'll edit my review.

Quote:
Lit. "...instead of passing their time slaughtering others."
...
Lit. "It concerns my private life." I don't like it, though. Zoe's original comment just means something like: "We keep to ourselves," whereas "It concerns my privite life." feels too much like "None of your business." It's close, but no cigar.

Thanks for these literal translations. I'll also steal them from you. And again, you'll have no arguments from me. The original lines were better.

Quote:
Quote:
Have you ever been with a warrior woman?
La souplesse d'une femme guerrière, je vous raconte pas.
The flexibility of a warrior woman, you can't imagine...

Actually, I think it's a lot better in English. :) The French spells out a likely meaning, whereas the English, rightly so, leaves it to the imagination of the listener.

I feel I must defend my opposite opinion here. The French line has good timing and the voice-actor does a very good job delivering it. Of course, it's a question of taste, but it's unquestionably funnier in French. Period.

Quote:
Why use a Past Tense? Lit. "We may have lost the battle, but the cause remained just/good." That much better conveys Mal's notion that he's currently still not convinced his was the wrong side.

In the Rallem vs Asarian debate, I incline towards Asarian's opinion! That's a clear mistake on my part, fortunately, easily corrected. Thanks again.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, November 20, 2007 12:16 AM

ASARIAN

Quote:
Originally posted by fortinm:
Thanks again.

And thank you again for all the work! :) It must no doubt be a painstaking endeavour, going through it all, line by line. Good thing we have a native speaker in our midst willing and able to do the job! I always find it fascinating to see what other languages did with Firefly. :)

I look forward to your next installment.

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

YOUR OPTIONS

SHARE THREAD

NEW POSTS TODAY

USER	POST DATE

USER

POST DATE