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Originally posted by AgentRouka:
It makes emotional sense for Gabriel Tam to turn his back on Simon until he comes to his senses and stops endangering the family. Cold? Yes. But I sincerely suspect that Gabriel Tam thinks that Simon is delusional.

It would be just too easy and a rather boring tv choice to make the Tam parents evil. Making them victims of their own emotional and social complications is far more interesting because evil parents are rare in real life, flawed and overwhelmed ones are everywhere and relevant.

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Originally posted by mal4prez:
I'm of the school of thought that the Alliance isn't Nazi Germany. It isn't so flatly, blatantly evil. It's much like our own government - basically good and well-intentioned, but with pockets of rottenness where bad people abuse the system. But they have to do it in a *covert* way. Why else all the efforts at secrecy about things like the Academy and Miranda? Because if the people knew, the govt would be in deep doo-doo. The govt ain't allowed to play like that!

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Originally posted by mal4prez:

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Originally posted by AgentRouka:
It makes emotional sense for Gabriel Tam to turn his back on Simon until he comes to his senses and stops endangering the family. Cold? Yes. But I sincerely suspect that Gabriel Tam thinks that Simon is delusional.

It would be just too easy and a rather boring tv choice to make the Tam parents evil. Making them victims of their own emotional and social complications is far more interesting because evil parents are rare in real life, flawed and overwhelmed ones are everywhere and relevant.

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Yep to that, and everything AR said!

As far as being "forced" to make more children... I'm of the school of thought that the Alliance isn't Nazi Germany. It isn't so flatly, blatantly evil. It's much like our own government - basically good and well-intentioned, but with pockets of rottenness where bad people abuse the system. But they have to do it in a *covert* way. Why else all the efforts at secrecy about things like the Academy and Miranda? Because if the people knew, the govt would be in deep doo-doo. The govt ain't allowed to play like that!

So I don't think the Alliance has the power to force people to procreate, or even to take their children away for spy development games. But some bad folks surely can take advantage of the People's assumption that their government would never, ever, ever do something bad. The Academy folks took advantage the Tam's assumption that their daughter must be fine because she's in a government sanctioned school. No matter the evidence to the contrary, the Tams couldn't accept that their govt had f**ked them, and their daughter.

Kind of relevant in today's world hmm? (And yes, I think Joss intended it to be.)


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hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Originally posted by embers:

but in the central planets we know they weren't using the PAX
so I'm guessing there IS stuff going on, and most citizens are in denial.

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Originally posted by ncbrowncoat:
What if the Tam's were unable to have children and were offered the opportunity to have "genetically enhanced" children that would be guaranteed to at least be above average or even brilliant? People strive for that even today. Look at all the parents that beg, pressure, or worse for their kids to be in the advanced classes or on the traveling sports teams.

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Originally posted by mal4prez:

ETA: AR, I again totally agree with your take. I think the Alliance really is just like today's govt. But one of the main differences I see is that it is so massively big that there's even more freedom for pockets of corruption to get out of control.

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Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
i always thought Dad Tam was #2. Never got a real feel for where Mom fit in with these choices.

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Originally posted by mal4prez:

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Originally posted by ncbrowncoat:
What if the Tam's were unable to have children and were offered the opportunity to have "genetically enhanced" children that would be guaranteed to at least be above average or even brilliant? People strive for that even today. Look at all the parents that beg, pressure, or worse for their kids to be in the advanced classes or on the traveling sports teams.

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Oooooh - I can totally see that! A branch of the Blue Sun Corp that does genetic research, with a project the well-meaning scientists see as helping procreationally challenged parents have babies. But, in a back room late at night, a few genes in the fetuses are tweaked by a suspiciously creepy character, and the kids are tracked as they grow up, sent invitations to the Academy...

Excellent idea! Totally fits into the many shades of gray between good and evil, and you're right, what a pickle for the Tams.

So, AR's post from yesterday, about cultural pressures, got me thinking about something. Many years ago my early teenaged nephew got busted for smoking pot and setting off fireworks from a rooftop. I felt like everyone was telling him he was some kind of criminal, so I sat him down and told him he was fine, just a bit stupid for screwing himself over like that. Getting that kind of record attached to his name could mess up his chances of getting out of his small town, if that's what he wanted.

That's just uncomfortably similar to Gabriel Tam's situation. It didn't bother me so much what my nephew did, cause really - big f'n deal. But what it cost his "reputation" was the big problem for me. But what can I do? I can't make the pot laws change. I can only tell the kid to quit breaking the rules. For his own good. (Or at least - quit getting caught!)

So, yeah, maybe that's what Gabriel Tam was feeling.

ETA: AR, I again totally agree with your take. I think the Alliance really is just like today's govt. But one of the main differences I see is that it is so massively big that there's even more freedom for pockets of corruption to get out of control.

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hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Originally posted by AgentRouka:

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Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
i always thought Dad Tam was #2. Never got a real feel for where Mom fit in with these choices.

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#2?

As for the mom, that's hard to say. Joss is weird about parents in general, mothers in particular, so who knows.

I think, based on what we saw, her relationship to her kids is less close than that of Daddy Tam. She figures into none of the choices made in "Safe", except for ordering the "dedicated source box" for Simon, so I take it she is more indulgent with her kids, because it's what she is used to in life. Everything is provided for, but generally everyone takes care of themselves and their hobbies.

But she still holds the clear expectation that they accomplish grand things. That's probably the norm in her circles, really.

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Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:

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Originally posted by AgentRouka:

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Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
i always thought Dad Tam was #2. Never got a real feel for where Mom fit in with these choices.

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#2?

As for the mom, that's hard to say. Joss is weird about parents in general, mothers in particular, so who knows.

I think, based on what we saw, her relationship to her kids is less close than that of Daddy Tam. She figures into none of the choices made in "Safe", except for ordering the "dedicated source box" for Simon, so I take it she is more indulgent with her kids, because it's what she is used to in life. Everything is provided for, but generally everyone takes care of themselves and their hobbies.

But she still holds the clear expectation that they accomplish grand things. That's probably the norm in her circles, really.

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Yes, #2. He seems unable or unwilling to fathom that River is communicating in code, and doesn't seem to want to hear about her needing help, like it would inconvenience him. He is peeved in the utmost that Simon has embarrassed him and gotten him into the records as bailing Simon out, giving him black marks with the Alliance and maybe compromising his benefits from his social position. I don't see #1 or #3 coming through in the exchanges from Safe.

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Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Impotent wasn't exactly what I viewed the #2 explanation to be in the first post, or how applied to Dad Tam, more like kowtowing to Alliance, protecting his social status, position in his little world.

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