Travel & Navigation about the Verse (technical) by jewelstaitefan

FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

Travel & Navigation about the Verse (technical)

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POSTED BY: JEWELSTAITEFAN
UPDATED: Friday, July 10, 2015 15:08
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Wednesday, June 10, 2009 10:05 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

There have been a number of browncoats who have claimed or wondered about travel or navigation factors and times in the verse.

This is to help summarize some of the conclusions reached in a discussion of Map of the Verse and the companion White Paper.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=4&t=36389

This will use elements of data from the episodes and BDM, and The Map of the Verse, the White Paper, and other sources.

This will help show that the locations of worlds around the verse are fairly static, they don't really move much from one month to another, or even from one year to another.

There is a known data discrepancy involving the orbital period (duration) and velocity for many of the orbiting bodies as listed in the White Paper. In an effort to be clear, and address how any discrepancies will affect our conclusions, here we will refer to figures given in the White Paper as "Fiction" data, and figures which would adhere to the laws of astrodynamics as "Science" data. Although addressing the discrepanices, we can still consider the "Fiction" values to be canon for this fictional Verse, until such time as they are changed - if they are changed.

Another apparent discrepancy is that Beaumonde is likely located in the Blue Sun system, but has been placed in the Kalidasa System. This placement causes great conflicts in the portrayal of Serenity BDM, and also less so in lines from Our Mrs Reynolds.

Given: Protostars Lux and Murphy are closest in 2511 (Lux and Georgia also). From White Paper.

First of all, the orbits around the center of the Verse (White Sun) are not very fast. The world which most quickly orbits is Bernadette, with an orbital period (or duration, which means the amount of time to complete full orbit around White Sun) of 23 years (Fiction) or 13 years (Science) - which means that during Kaylee's entire lifetime, it has either not completed a whole circle yet, or hasn't completed 2 circles. Either way, in the past 6 years since the end of the War, Bernadette has not even worked around to half it's orbit.
Every other body is slower, getting from one side of the verse to the other at an even slower pace. The orbital period for Lux (Persephone, Pelorum) is Fiction 164 years and Science 91 years, so even during Book's entire lifetime, Lux never completed an orbit around White Sun.
These worlds are largely static, they don't move much in comparison to the ships of the verse.

The maximum acceleration/deceleration rate for Serenity during the episodes of Firefly are determined in the episode Safe, where it is stated that 10 hours is required to get from Jaingyin to Greenleaf. Since we can assume with Book bleeding out, they were talking about maximum acceleration, so this gives us our data for 5 hours of acceleration and 5 hours of deceleration.

The Speed of Light is approx 7.2 Au per hour, and that limit is not exceeded in this verse. The White Paper also postulates that the speed of the exodus ships from Earth were 1/3 Speed of Light velocity. Serenity is an old, obsolete cargo ship, and it seems reasonable that it might not exceed 1/3 Lightspeed. Alliance Interceptors are likely much quicker (acceleration) and faster, yet still would not exceed the Speed of Light. The upgrades which Serenity got after the sale of the Lassiter, viewed in Serenity BDM along with the new Mule, might give her more power, more acceleration, maybe more max velocity in the BDM compared to the series, but references for this are suspect.

The resulting chart of acceleration/deceleration for Serenity (she can accel slower), including the low end values and high end values:

Time distance vel(/hr^2) distance vel(/hr^2)
1hr 0.1275Au @ 0.255Au/ or 0.1545Au @ 0.309Au/
2hr 0.5100Au @ 0.510Au/ or 0.6180Au @ 0.618Au/
3hr 1.1475Au @ 0.765Au/ or 1.3905Au @ 0.927Au/
4hr 2.0400Au @ 1.020Au/ or 2.4720Au @ 1.236Au/
5hr 3.1875Au @ 1.275Au/ or 3.8625Au @ 1.545Au/
6hr 4.5900Au @ 1.530Au/ or 5.5620Au @ 1.854Au/
7hr 6.2475Au @ 1.785Au/ or 7.5705Au @ 2.163Au/
8hr 8.1600Au @ 2.040Au/ or 9.8880Au @ 2.472Au/
9hr 10.3275Au @ 2.295Au/
10hr 12.7500Au @ 2.550Au/

The farthest apart that 2 bodies can be in the verse would be from Salisbury on Kalidasa's outermost edge (135Au from the center of the verse) and Blue Sun, at 180Au from the center, adding up to 315Au total. If Serenity takes 10 hours to accelerate to 1/3 Lightspeed and covering 12.75Au, and also decelerating the same, that covers 25.5Au in 20 hours, and then another 121 hours at 2.4Au in between, that's 141 hours total, or 5.9 days for Serenity to travel completely from one far end of the verse to the opposite far end. Other craft are faster, and it's possible that Serenity may have the capability to go faster than 1/3 Lightspeed.

The Pilot episode Serenity does not present time or travel conflicts. From Persephone to Whitefall, or Athens, or Boros, would be a minimum of 29Au, which would take 22 or 23 hours. Since after leaving Whitehall Book mentions he's been out 2 days, this all seems to mesh.

Shindig starts on Santos, and the next morning arrives Persephone at 10am local time. These are at least 13.6Au apart, which would take Serenity 13 or 14 hours. This seems reasonable in the aired portrayal.

From Persephone in Shindig to Jaingyin in Safe is about 98Au. At Serenity's max acceleration and assumed 1/3 Lightspeed, this would be 50 hours (2 days) of travel. However, Mal says it took 3 weeks. This means roughly going at one quarter of Serenity's capable speed. Keep in mind the cargo is prized cattle, they might not react well to high rates of accel/decel. The key is "stopping distance" although accel, cruise speed, and decel at destination can be planned, as navigation about worlds, the unkown problem is other craft. At only 1/12 Lightspeed it still takes over 2 hours to decelerate, and so their slower pace is reasonable for the purposes of slowing, changing vector, or even stopping wihtou upsetting the cargo.
All other cargo we've seen seems inert (notwithstanding geisha wobbly dolls), so this travel time does not affect Serenity otherwise.

In Our Mrs Reynolds, Mal says it will take 5 days to get from Triumph to Beaumonde.
If Beaumonde is in Kalidasa system (as given in Map or the Verse and White Paper), then even if Red Sun is as far away as possible from Kalidasa, it is only 211Au maximum distance, needing only 94 hours to travel it, which is under 4 days.
If Beaumonde is in Blue Sun system, then the max distance between Triumph and Beaumonde is 267Au, needing 117 hours to travel, or about 5 days.

In Serenity BDM, the trip from Miranda to Mr Universe's place on the Comm Station is portrayed as not too many hours, and a key is that it's fairly quick between baiting the Reaver Armada and encountering the Alliance Armada. If Mr Universe is 59Au from Miranda, then it would take 30 to 33 hours for Serenity to traverse that distance (with the old engine force circa Firefly episode version, not considering upgrades from Lassiter sale). If Miranda was closer to Mr Universe, such as 47Au, it would take about 25 to 28 hours. At Lightspeed it's still 6 hours. If Mr Universe is any farther than that, the screen portrayal clearly does not match.
With Mr Universe located almost across the verse from Kalidasa system (150 degrees, specified in White paper), This means it would take 5 days to travel between Kalidasa and Blue Sun systems. Lilac, Haven, Training House, and Miranda are all in Blue Sun system. If Beaumonde is in Kalidasa, then from Lilac to Maidenhead is 5 days, then another 5 days back to Haven. This does not mesh with what's portrayed on screen, not to mention why Fanty & Mingo are contracting an illegal job on the opposite side of the verse. Also in BDM, Mal states after the Barnswallow that it will take 10 hours time to get to Maidenhead (on Beaumonde) to drop off Simon and River. From Lilac, this is not enough time to get out of the Blue Sun System, let alone clear across the Verse to Kalidasa System. If Beaumonde is in fact in the Blue Sun system, then all onscreen portrayals of travel and elapsed time are reasonable.

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Wednesday, June 10, 2009 10:05 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Conclusions.
1. Lux is opposite in the verse from Red Sun (98Au distance).
2. Mr Universe Comm Station closest to Miranda/Burnham (59Au, or 30-33hours on old reactor). Maybe down to 47 Au,for 25/28 hours. Lightspeed distance is 6 hours.
3. Burnham/Miranda orbit maybe coming closer to Georgia System.
4. Kalidasa is 150 degrees CCW from Mr universe, or 150 degrees ahead in the CCW orbital path. Kalidasa also far from Blue Sun, 300Au (130hrs at Firefly-grade acceleration, with 1/3 lightspeed limit), for 5.5 days travel.
4.a. Red Sun /Triumph likely oposite Blue Sun, So Blue, Lux, and Mr Universe near Georgia.
5. Verse positions/movement largely static.
6. Unification Day bar in TTJ likely in Georgia (ended Pilot in Georgia, Whitefall or Boros, next stop Ezra for Niska's Skyplex).
7. Out of Gas occurs in Red Sun system, so likely Ita Moon is in Red Sun as well.

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Thursday, June 11, 2009 8:39 AM

BYTEMITE

Maybe this is something I don't get very well, but when I read the white papers, I thought that terraforming had given planets an axis that wobbled them through all four seasons in 365.25 days so that calendar dates matched up.

If they were stagnant in position relative to each other, wouldn't outer planets have to move at incredible rates of speed to keep up with inner planets in a particular system?

And if they do this, why do the white papers claim that Hera and Serenity Valley were at their closest approach to the core system, and so that was why they were important strategic locations?

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Thursday, June 11, 2009 11:59 AM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Maybe this is something I don't get very well, but when I read the white papers, I thought that terraforming had given planets an axis that wobbled them through all four seasons in 365.25 days so that calendar dates matched up.

Sounds a bit handwavium that.

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
If they were stagnant in position relative to each other, wouldn't outer planets have to move at incredible rates of speed to keep up with inner planets in a particular system?

The orbital speed of a body is a fixed quantity, entirely dependent on the apparent mass of the centre of gravity, and the satellites distance from it.

It would appear from the other thread that the planets have such long periods that the distance changes are irrelevant on human time scales.

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Thursday, June 11, 2009 10:53 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Alright, I think I just finished the first 2 posts. Sorry for the delay, got busy yesterday.

Hope they make sense.
Any questions?

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Sunday, July 12, 2009 11:30 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Another apparent discrepancy is that Beaumonde is likely located in the Blue Sun system, but has been placed in the Kalidasa System. This placement causes great conflicts in the portrayal of Serenity BDM, and also less so in lines from Our Mrs Reynolds.

In Our Mrs Reynolds, Mal says it will take 5 days to get from Triumph to Beaumonde.
If Beaumonde is in Kalidasa system (as given in Map or the Verse and White Paper), then even if Red Sun is as far away as possible from Kalidasa, it is only 211Au maximum distance, needing only 94 hours to travel it, which is under 4 days.
If Beaumonde is in Blue Sun system, then the max distance between Triumph and Beaumonde is 267Au, needing 117 hours to travel, or about 5 days.

In Serenity BDM, the trip from Miranda to Mr Universe's place on the Comm Station is portrayed as not too many hours, and a key is that it's fairly quick between baiting the Reaver Armada and encountering the Alliance Armada. If Mr Universe is 59Au from Miranda, then it would take 30 to 33 hours for Serenity to traverse that distance (with the old engine force circa Firefly episode version, not considering upgrades from Lassiter sale). If Miranda was closer to Mr Universe, such as 47Au, it would take about 25 to 28 hours. At Lightspeed it's still 6 hours. If Mr Universe is any farther than that, the screen portrayal clearly does not match.
With Mr Universe located almost across the verse from Kalidasa system (150 degrees, specified in White paper), This means it would take 5 days to travel between Kalidasa and Blue Sun systems. Lilac, Haven, Training House, and Miranda are all in Blue Sun system. If Beaumonde is in Kalidasa, then from Lilac to Maidenhead is 5 days, then another 5 days back to Haven. This does not mesh with what's portrayed on screen, not to mention why Fanty & Mingo are contracting an illegal job on the opposite side of the verse. If Beaumonde is in fact in the Blue Sun system, then all onscreen portrayals of travel and elapsed time are reasonable.

I noticed during CSTS the line in Serenity when Mal says Beaumonde is 10 hours from Lilac. After the Barnswallow, Simon says they are getting off, and Mal says shiny, they can get off at Beaumonde in 10 hours time.

From Lilac, 10 hours is not even enough to leave the Blue Sun system, so this further adds weight to the idea that Beaumonde is not located in Kalidasa, but in Blue Sun.

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Monday, July 13, 2009 4:51 AM

BYTEMITE

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Maybe this is something I don't get very well, but when I read the white papers, I thought that terraforming had given planets an axis that wobbled them through all four seasons in 365.25 days so that calendar dates matched up.

Sounds a bit handwavium that.
Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
If they were stagnant in position relative to each other, wouldn't outer planets have to move at incredible rates of speed to keep up with inner planets in a particular system?

The orbital speed of a body is a fixed quantity, entirely dependent on the apparent mass of the centre of gravity, and the satellites distance from it.

It would appear from the other thread that the planets have such long periods that the distance changes are irrelevant on human time scales.

I understand that, that's why the idea of stagnant planets with such long orbital periods so as to be essentially stationary doesn't make sense at ALL to me.

Either we're saying they're stagnant relative to each other, or we're saying they're stagnant to a fixed point in space. Either way it's a big WTF to me.

I think I prefer a system where the planets orbit at whatever rate their distance would dictate, and years, seasons, and calendar days are determined by a careful axial wobble separate from their orbit.

But then again... Some planets are going to be so distant from their sun that solar radiation is about similar to other stars in the sky, so I also wonder how even an axial wobble could create seasons in those cases. But at least for a calendar, that could work.

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Monday, July 13, 2009 10:55 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Maybe this is something I don't get very well, but when I read the white papers, I thought that terraforming had given planets an axis that wobbled them through all four seasons in 365.25 days so that calendar dates matched up.

Sounds a bit handwavium that.
Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
If they were stagnant in position relative to each other, wouldn't outer planets have to move at incredible rates of speed to keep up with inner planets in a particular system?

The orbital speed of a body is a fixed quantity, entirely dependent on the apparent mass of the centre of gravity, and the satellites distance from it.

It would appear from the other thread that the planets have such long periods that the distance changes are irrelevant on human time scales.

I understand that, that's why the idea of stagnant planets with such long orbital periods so as to be essentially stationary doesn't make sense at ALL to me.

Either we're saying they're stagnant relative to each other, or we're saying they're stagnant to a fixed point in space. Either way it's a big WTF to me.

I think I prefer a system where the planets orbit at whatever rate their distance would dictate, and years, seasons, and calendar days are determined by a careful axial wobble separate from their orbit.

But then again... Some planets are going to be so distant from their sun that solar radiation is about similar to other stars in the sky, so I also wonder how even an axial wobble could create seasons in those cases. But at least for a calendar, that could work.

Sorry I didn't reply to your Q earlier.
Relatively stagnant, that's the key.
The world closest to the Core Sun has a stated orbital duration (single complete orbit) of 23 years. The Blue Sun System orbits the Core in 2,400 years. So for purposes of navigation, from one year to the next, things don't move a tremendous amount, the travel times are about the same from one month to another, one year to another. In the 6 years since the end of the war, few worlds have even completed one single orbit.
Does that help?
Have you read the discussion in the linked thread?

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Tuesday, July 14, 2009 4:57 AM

BYTEMITE

I'm looking over it some.

Two things I can think of reading that discussion. I see no problem with planets having an appreciable day and night, because most of the outermost systems of the planets are so far from the other systems that the other suns won't look like much more than the much further background stars.The only concern that needs to be addressed is the number of moons a planet might have, which you looked into.

The other is that I have my suspicions that all of the suns in the system are yellow dwarfs, but their names are determined by differences in their emitted spectrum. Much like the sun looks yellow from our atmosphere, but looks white without any interference. And actually, if you look at the emitted spectrum, our sun emits so much blue that it's probably a really light, almost white blue colour, if you really want to be specific. I believe you also said something similar, but I wanted to be sure that's what you were saying.

I haven't quite gotten to the part in your discussion where you explain the orbits and seasons and axial tilt.

But I think I understand what you're saying. The planets just have long orbits, even ones close to their sun, according to the white papers. And planets far from their sun have really, REALLY long orbits.

Which, I suppose since humanity has invented grav screening, orbital velocity doesn't necessarily have to be consistent with gravity and distance.

Hmm. Okay.

Hey, so if Shadow is the farthest planet from it's sun, maybe that explains why it's called Shadow. I think I read it's about 18 AU away... That would put it about at Uranus' distance from our sun, and receives an intensity of light about 1/400 of our sun. Going by sky luminance, that means that midday on Shadow would be more like twilight on Earth.

Probably something similar goes on with Osirius. From what I recall in the series, the shot we get of the Tam's estate looks like early morning or late evening.

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Thursday, July 16, 2009 7:59 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
I'm looking over it some.

I haven't quite gotten to the part in your discussion where you explain the orbits and seasons and axial tilt.

Seasons and axial titlt were not really discussed. They were a given from the White Paper and had no real canon conflicts from the series, so no confusion ensued.

Quote:

But I think I understand what you're saying. The planets just have long orbits, even ones close to their sun, according to the white papers. And planets far from their sun have really, REALLY long orbits.

Which, I suppose since humanity has invented grav screening, orbital velocity doesn't necessarily have to be consistent with gravity and distance.

Hmm. Okay.

Hey, so if Shadow is the farthest planet from it's sun, maybe that explains why it's called Shadow. I think I read it's about 18 AU away... That would put it about at Uranus' distance from our sun, and receives an intensity of light about 1/400 of our sun. Going by sky luminance, that means that midday on Shadow would be more like twilight on Earth.

Probably something similar goes on with Osirius. From what I recall in the series, the shot we get of the Tam's estate looks like early morning or late evening.

Well, Shadow orbits Protostar Murphy, along with Hera and Aphrodite. Murphy orbits Georgia Sun, which then orbits White Sun.
So Shadow spins around Murphy at about 2/3 Au, and Murphy orbits Georgia about each 60 years. With Shadow, Hera, and Aphrodite never getting more than an Au apart from each other, their navigational differences are nil in terms of "days of travel time" for all but the slowest of vessels. And Murphy's nearest orbits are Meadow and Three Hills, all orbiting Georgia in the same direction, with little difference from one year to the next. In terms of a hundred year lifetime, sure, some relative movement will occur and be noticable. But for planning a trip from one month to the next, little difference will be found.

Osiris, on the other hand, directly orbits White Sun in the Core.

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Friday, July 17, 2009 7:02 AM

BYTEMITE

Hmm. In that case... Murphy's luminosity is 1/50th of the sun. Shadow orbits at about 0.06 AU.

L = (M/Msun)^3.9, converted to watts (Lsun = 3.9*10^26 W) and calculated for apparent brightness. b = L/(4*pi*r^2) where r is in meters. After getting the apparent brightness of Murphy from Shadow, I calculated the apparent brightness of the sun from earth to compare the two.

Murphy is 6 times as bright from Shadow as the sun is from earth. That's okay, because sky luminosity varies on earth by 10^-2 to 10^3 from dawn/dusk to midday. Midday, though, might not want to be out at midday. Unless Shadow happens to be a stormy place.

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Sunday, July 19, 2009 9:54 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Hmm. In that case... Murphy's luminosity is 1/50th of the sun. Shadow orbits at about 0.06 AU.

L = (M/Msun)^3.9, converted to watts (Lsun = 3.9*10^26 W) and calculated for apparent brightness. b = L/(4*pi*r^2) where r is in meters. After getting the apparent brightness of Murphy from Shadow, I calculated the apparent brightness of the sun from earth to compare the two.

Murphy is 6 times as bright from Shadow as the sun is from earth. That's okay, because sky luminosity varies on earth by 10^-2 to 10^3 from dawn/dusk to midday. Midday, though, might not want to be out at midday. Unless Shadow happens to be a stormy place.

I had thought the power output of a Protostar was much reduced, perhaps I recall incorrectly. If so, the heat from Murphy would not be that unbearable, and the light would cause advanced photosythesis, greater fauna growth, more greenhouse effect, more filtering of the atmo to protect the surface from UV rays.
Remember the atmo processes have become controlled by man, so not as subject to climactic laws as we currently know them.
Also discussed previously, in the more appropriate thread, was the visual perception of light. Consider what you know of as "nightvision" and how lifeforms adapt to different light levels. If you live a life at one level of light, it will seem normal to you.

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Monday, July 20, 2009 3:49 AM

BYTEMITE

The energy output IS greatly reduced, and I stand by my calculations of energy output measured in Watts (luminosity). L = (M/Msun)^3.9 is a valid and commonly used astronomical calculation.

The key factor here is that Shadow is closer to Murphy than even Mercury is to our sun. Apparent brightness, or how much light/energy is received from a source, increases by a power of two with increasing proximity.

And I'm talking less so much about people needing special sunglasses (your comments in regards to vision) than I am talking about UV radiation. Maybe Shadow has an even thicker ozone layer than does earth, but like I said, wouldn't want to be out at midday. You'd get six times as bad a sunburn in 1/6th the time.

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Saturday, September 5, 2009 2:55 PM

KINGEICHOLZ

YOU CAN NOT TRAVEL FAST AS THE SPEED OF LIGHT E=MC2 WHITCH MEANS MASS TURNS INTO ENEERGE SO IF YOU HAVE A SHIP IT WOULD TURN IN TO LIGHT AND THAT INPOSSABULE NOW YOU CAN HAVE WARP ENEGENS THAT MOVE THE SPACE AROUND THE SHIP BUT NOT THE SHIP ITS SELF THEREFORE YOU COULD TRAVEL FASTER THEN THE SPEED OF LIGHT.

I'M SO SMART

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Saturday, September 5, 2009 2:57 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

But, given your use of language, you are so illiterate...

________________________
Together we are greater than the sum of our parts

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Sunday, September 6, 2009 8:50 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by KingEICHOLZ:
YOU CAN NOT TRAVEL FAST AS THE SPEED OF LIGHT E=MC2 WHITCH MEANS MASS TURNS INTO ENEERGE SO IF YOU HAVE A SHIP IT WOULD TURN IN TO LIGHT AND THAT INPOSSABULE NOW YOU CAN HAVE WARP ENEGENS THAT MOVE THE SPACE AROUND THE SHIP BUT NOT THE SHIP ITS SELF THEREFORE YOU COULD TRAVEL FASTER THEN THE SPEED OF LIGHT.

I'M SO SMART

Hey, not so smart. Have you seen Firefly or Serenity? No craft reach or exceed the speed of light in this verse. One third of the speed of light is not more than the speed of light. There are no warp engines in this verse. Not FTL travel.
Get with the program. Since you are not so smart, but think you are, you should watch more than once or reread your material before trying to make claims without basis. The rest of us, geniuses included, already make enough mistakes, but at least we are actually trying.

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Monday, March 10, 2014 7:12 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

bump
dwier FoD amy madigan UB candy CarOpp connelly MF melinda dwier lovitz league hanks bacon jfk candy conelly hendricks issac renner cruise urban cho drake rose hayden alba morena

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Wednesday, April 15, 2015 8:18 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

This quote is from the third post in the thread:

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
And if they do this, why do the white papers claim that Hera and Serenity Valley were at their closest approach to the core system, and so that was why they were important strategic locations?

I keep forgetting to answer this. So I am bumping it now, to answer when I check out the details (to explain correctly).

9 July 2015:
In the Core, Lux orbits White Sun at 30Au with 164 year duration. This is prograde, or ClockWise in our view of the Map. Persephone is the second orbiting body around Lux, at .037Au distance and 121 days duration, also CW. So every 121 days, Persephone is 30.037Au from White Sun.
Pelorum is the other orbital body of Lux, with 188 day duration.

Halo asteroid belt is at a distance of 40-43 Au from White Sun.

Georgia Sun system orbits White Sun at a distance of 68Au and 560.7 years duration. Also in prograde, which still looks like CW in our view of the Map.
Murphy orbits Georgia Sun at a distance of 16Au and duration of 64 years. Murphy is in retrograde, orbiting Georgia in CounterClockWise direction, which when closest to White Sun like in 2511 is moving CW in reference to White Sun, so almost parallel to Lux. When closest to White Sun, Murphy is 52Au from White Sun and 22Au from Lux in 2511.
Hera is the first orbital body of Murphy with a distance of .030Au and duration of 99 days. Hera looks to also orbit CCW, which would again look CW compared to White Sun when Hera is closest to White Sun (and farthest from Georgia Sun). So the closest Hera and Persephone can get in 2511 is about 21.033Au from each other, with Halo in between.
Aphrodite is the second orbital body of Murphy.
Shadow is the third orbital body of Murphy with a distance of .060Au and duration of 196 days.

One year later in 2512 Murphy will be about 0.8Au or 1.6 degrees behind Lux in their mutual progression CW around White Sun.
By 2517 this will be about 4.8Au and 10 degrees of lag behind Lux.
The next time Lux and Murphy will be this close will be about 2743.

So the closest planets outside Halo are Shadow, Aphrodite, and Persephone. The closest Core planets (inside Halo) these 3 will get to are Pelorum and Persephone.
The distance in 2511 ranges from 21.033Au to 22.067Au. Six years later in 2517 the distance will have increased by about a half Au.

You have referenced the White Paper as the source of tactical or strategic advantage of this distance. I am not sure I can confirm that this is a particular advantage - at least, strictly pertaining to distance.

Persephone is about 30Au from the White Sun and about 22Au from the closest planets around Murphy in 2511. This helps make clear why many in the Core seem cozier when staying in the Core, and those outside Halo may seem remote. For Hera, Lux is practically halfway to White Sun.

Perhaps the relevance of importance for Persephone and Hera are the concept of hopping over the Halo.
I am thinking of Portage, Wisconsin and the vast importance of it's trade and commerce for the entirety of the Western United States during the years between Lewis & Clark and the building of the railroad crossing the Mississippi River.
And also consider the Island Hopping Campaign of the Marines and Navy during WWII - hard for people today to understand when current planes travel nonstop across the Pacific.
Speaking of the Mississippi, Navigators and Masters of Shipping are certified only for certain well-defined sections of the River, and are not allowed to Pilot beyond the section they are rated for - the River is far too changing and treacherous.

Some ships in the Verse have limited range - recall Serenity has extenders which may increase her range. Maybe crossing Halo is a specialty of shipping. War gear is onerous, massive, and often needs to be pre-positioned to be effective.

I cannot say if this is reasonable, but you are free to discuss any ideas.

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Thursday, July 9, 2015 7:57 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Does the above answer help, or satisfy the question?
Hopefully it adds to the understanding.

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Friday, July 10, 2015 3:08 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

I think that assertion was solely from the White Paper.
I don't recall Joss saying anything about strategic reasoning about the War For Dominance.

Persephone was the largest body orbiting Lux.
Shadow was slightly larger, more massive, more gravity than Hera, with Aphrodite smaller than them.

Hera was the Capitol of Georgia System, according to White Paper.

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