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Originally posted by SignyM:
It's an important moment in human history: whether those who live in the heart of military capitalism realize that they're been promised freedom and wealth but are delivered to slavery and poverty... or not.

In the end, capitalism is self-destructive. It can survive, but only by feeding on its members. The question is just how many more years of misery we .... and the world... will endure.

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Hell, capitalism is the single greatest thing we've got going. No system permits nearly as much freedom, bestows anywhere near the responsibility to the people, and provides so much for so many.

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Originally posted by SignyM:

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Hell, capitalism is the single greatest thing we've got going. No system permits nearly as much freedom, bestows anywhere near the responsibility to the people, and provides so much for so many.

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Oh, yeah. Which is why a billion people are hungry, and 0.000000001% of the population own 50% of everything.

What a system!

Who the hell do you think you're kidding????

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Suck it up, big boy!

Have the courage of your convictions! Accept the consequences of everything you espouse and stop trying to convince everyone that you REALLY don't deserve justice.

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Where the hell are they hungry ? Is it in places where freedom and capitalism reign? Hell no! It's where thug dictators and totalitarianism flourishes.

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Originally posted by SignyM:
I think that's why you reject looking at the real world. You're comfortable where you are.

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The moral blindness you show towards those reasons, the actual causes of so much misery and death in recent times is bewildering.

From NAZI Germany, to Stalin's Soviet Union, and the Khmer Rouge, you gloss over those atrocities and instead focus on that which has nothing to do w/ the direct murder of millions of innocent lives. If anything capitalism has SAVED far more than the number of lives you falsely accuse and blame it of enslaving or murdering.

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And spare me the subtle " when the revolution starts, you'll go first " crap.

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Originally posted by SignyM:
So, okay, millions of natives weren't killed in our early history?

Slavery didn't exist?

The tyrannies in Central and South America, the Mideast, and Southeast Asia didn't happen?

Conversation gettin' a little too hot for you? Too many facts making your brain hurt?

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Those tyrannies happened with ... us.

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Again w/ the 'blame the US for EVERYTHING ' crap.

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No, the conversation was getting a bit too dumb for me. If I stick around, my brain will start to die, bit by bit, from being over exposed to copious amounts of stupid.

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When did your brain die, Rappy? was it back in January of '04, when you joined this site? Or was it earlier, much earlier?

And if we're all so dumb, and you're so above us all, why do you deign to wallow down here in the muck with such little people? Seems you'd be better off somewhere else, in some land of mythical super-geniuses like yourself. We're not worthy!

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
But I don't blame Rand, that's as ludicrous as blaming Plato, or Machiavelli, the folks who espouse these ideas ain't the problem so much as the bloody damn fool idiots who listen to them,

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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When did your brain die, Rappy? was it back in January of '04, when you joined this site? Or was it earlier, much earlier?

And if we're all so dumb, and you're so above us all, why do you deign to wallow down here in the muck with such little people? Seems you'd be better off somewhere else, in some land of mythical super-geniuses like yourself. We're not worthy!

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Kwickie, again, ( for like the 547th time ) you make my point for me.

I said THIS CONVERSATION , not this web site or even this forum.....

Yeah, I know. A but much to expect that you'd be able to understand the difference.

How did your brain ever learn human speech ?

You might be due for a refresher course.

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Originally posted by SignyM:
Yanno, the funny thing is that if people really WERE selfish SOBs they'd have booted Rand into the dustbin, seeing her as an apologist for the Overlord that she really was.

But thanx to propaganda and a healthy dose of Stockholm Syndrome, peeps think they're something they're not. They think they're capitalists (*snicker*) when what they really are is peons with a fantasy. That's the odd thing about people: they don't recognize their REAL interests, so they empty their pockets and open their veins for the parasites, whom they could do MUCH better off without, thank you!

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

Awww, whassamatta Rappy, you don't like it when people respond to what you DIDN'T say?

Then why do you do it so often?

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

Awww, whassamatta Rappy, you don't like it when people respond to what you DIDN'T say?

Then why do you do it so often?

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So then, you're admitting that you screwed up, you're an idiot, and you deeply apologize for being such a colossal wanker.

Cool.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

Well, I'm admitting to behaving exactly the way you do. If all that other stuff is you admitting that you screwed up, you're an idiot, and you deeply apologize for being such a colossal wanker, then cool. It's about time you did that.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

Well, I'm admitting to behaving exactly the way you do. If all that other stuff is you admitting that you screwed up, you're an idiot, and you deeply apologize for being such a colossal wanker, then cool. It's about time you did that.

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You're behaving the exact OPPOSITE of how I do. Just admit that you're wrong, and we'll move on.

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you're view is that you belong to the state, where as Rand's view is that we belong to ourselves.

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Originally posted by SignyM:

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you're view is that you belong to the state, where as Rand's view is that we belong to ourselves.

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Boy, you are one fucked-up puppy! Where did I say that? Can you find it anywhere??

NOPE! YA CAN'T, CAN YA? (doofus)

And, as usual, you got is bass-akwards. The issue is that Rand thinks we belong to HER and her kind. So pardon me while I kick her in the shin. You too.

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So then, you're admitting that you screwed up, you're an idiot, and you deeply apologize for being such a colossal wanker.

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Originally posted by SignyM:

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you're view is that you belong to the state, where as Rand's view is that we belong to ourselves.

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Boy, you are one fucked-up puppy! Where did I say that? Can you find it anywhere??

NOPE! YA CAN'T, CAN YA? (doofus)

And, as usual, you got is bass-akwards. The issue is that Rand thinks we belong to HER and her kind. So pardon me while I kick her in the shin. You too.

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Originally posted by canttakesky:
I hate Rand.

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I heartily accept the motto, "That government is best which governs least"; and I should like to see it acted up to more rapidly and systematically. Carried out, it finally amounts to this, which also I believe — "That government is best which governs not at all"; and when men are prepared for it, that will be the kind of government which they will have. -- HDT

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Originally posted by Kirkules:

It wasn’t following Rand’s philosophy that caused the financial meltdown, it was government policies that encouraged dishonest behavior and government regulators that totally failed to do their job and enforce the law.

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Originally posted by Kirkules:

It wasn’t following Rand’s philosophy that caused the financial meltdown, it was government policies that encouraged dishonest behavior and government regulators that totally failed to do their job and enforce the law.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

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Originally posted by Kirkules:

It wasn’t following Rand’s philosophy that caused the financial meltdown, it was government policies that encouraged dishonest behavior and government regulators that totally failed to do their job and enforce the law.

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Let's face it: Time after time after time, we've seen it happen the world over: If some greedy capitalist thinks they can get away with ignoring laws and regulations, they absolutely will. And time after time after time, the harshest penalties they're likely to face amount to nothing more than a slap on the wrist.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
That so-called freedom that you say allowed us to do so much better the last several years is also the same "freedom" that allowed the banking industry to collapse in 2008 and nearly take down the entire U.S. economy. It seems as though Europe wasn't hit nearly as hard, with a few exceptions, those being places where things were done in more of the "American style" (Greece and Iceland, f'rinstance).

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

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Originally posted by Kirkules:

It wasn’t following Rand’s philosophy that caused the financial meltdown, it was government policies that encouraged dishonest behavior and government regulators that totally failed to do their job and enforce the law.

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No, it was a lack of regulation and banks behaving like cowboys and getting away with it.

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Originally posted by Kirkules:

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
That so-called freedom that you say allowed us to do so much better the last several years is also the same "freedom" that allowed the banking industry to collapse in 2008 and nearly take down the entire U.S. economy. It seems as though Europe wasn't hit nearly as hard, with a few exceptions, those being places where things were done in more of the "American style" (Greece and Iceland, f'rinstance).

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What nations in Europe were not hit as hard as the US. You might find it a very short list. Of course slow growth and high unemployment is the norm in Europe so they probaly did'nt notice as much.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

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Originally posted by Kirkules:

It wasn’t following Rand’s philosophy that caused the financial meltdown, it was government policies that encouraged dishonest behavior and government regulators that totally failed to do their job and enforce the law.

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No, it was a lack of regulation and banks behaving like cowboys and getting away with it.

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Cowboys are actually fairly reserved,hard working, rugged and independent. I really do tire of the false stereo type of cowboys as nothing but common , rowdy OUTLAWS, riding into town, shooting into the air, and causing general chaos. Thanks, Hollywood.

Those never were, and aren't "cowboys". Euro-ignorance of the American frontier, never ceases to amaze.


B]

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Pftth, so soon people forget.

The primary check and balance wasn't, and isn't, Gov regulation, so much as it was the risk of a collective of pissed off and maltreated workers, or members of a polluted and abused community, taking *issue* with the Corporation in a serious way.

A check and balance that was essentially destroyed by the Corporates ability to call in the Gov and it's entire fucking military to protect them, which they WILL do, and yet can't even be bothered to enforce regs against em whatever ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_strikes

Find me ONE BLOODY TIME, the miltary intervened against the Corpies in that list - ONE.

Till then, don't expect me to believe Government is any kinda check and balance against Corporations - if anything, in my eyes they are both just different sides of the same tyrannical coin, and the best defense against them is grinding them up against each other in hopes of utterly destroying both.

-F

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Originally posted by Niki2:
Relax, Magons, you didn't offend anyone else, I'm pretty sure. I'm guessing it's a sore spot for Kirk; lord knows I have enough of my own!

The euphymism "acting like cowboys" has long been understood the world over. It doesn't mean actual cowboys. I don't know what the concept is of our cowboys elsewhere, but yes, they were mostly hard working, not-particularly-social (as in "independent" of society), men trying to survive by driving cattle over hundreds of dusty miles, getting tons of broken bones "breaking" horses (which, if they'd only known, could have been done without any harm to horse OR them), breaking more bones, eating dust and getting bruises and "road rash" from lasooing (SP?) cattle, pounding fences, etc. All for relatively little money, but most of them were loners and swapped the more comfortable life for their independence. It was a hard life.

The term came from cowboys who got drunk at the end of the trail (and who wouldn't?) and were seen "shooting into the air, and causing general chaos". It wasn't fair, but it's been used ever since...who hasn't heard of "cowboy diplomacy", etc.? The term's meaning is clear, however it came about.

Besides, your guys Down Under are probably the closest anywhere else in the world to our cowboys of old, so you probably understand the REAL meaning of the term better than any other country. You may call them something different, but they are (were?) cowboys in the original sense.

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I'm relaxed. I was a little taken aback that I offended anyone with the term 'cowboy', but I can see that if you are a cowboy it might be a little annoying to be constantly referred to describe irresponsible or shark like activity.

I'm willing to grow to meet the needs of international dialogues.