You gotta admit, they're damned good at what they do![quote]Republican Rep. Jason Chaffetz of Utah has lashed out at the Republican National Committee ov..."/>
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REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS
Republican Rep. Jason Chaffetz Calls RNC 'Census' Mailers an Outrage
Tuesday, April 27, 2010 10:00 AM
NIKI2
Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...
Quote:Republican Rep. Jason Chaffetz of Utah has lashed out at the Republican National Committee over its continuing practice of sending out a fundraising mailer that claims to be a "census document." "They're trying to be deceptive, and it outrages me," Chaffetz said in an interview with The Plum Line's Greg Sargent. The RNC is continuing to send out a fundraising appeal with the words "census" and "DO NOT DESTROY/OFFICIAL DOCUMENT," despite a law passed weeks ago banning these types of mailers. The RNC, which has faced a string of scandals under the leadership of chair Michael Steele (pictured), argues the law does not apply to its mailers, which note (in relatively smaller print) that it is not a U.S. government document. Chaffetz, who co-sponsored the law banning such mailers, said it is indeed a violation. "I'm happy to walk over there and give them a lesson," he told Sargent. "Just don't use the word 'census' and you don't have a problem." "They're going to have to abide by the law," added Chaffetz. "The reason they're using the word census is they're trying to deceive people. I think that's wrong. Even though it's my own party I've got to call this out for what it is." Along with Darrell Issa of California, another Republican and the co-sponsor of the law, Chaffetz is reportedly drafting a letter calling for a halt to the mailers.
Tuesday, April 27, 2010 11:40 AM
AURAPTOR
America loves a winner!
Tuesday, April 27, 2010 11:48 AM
GEEZER
Keep the Shiny side up
Tuesday, April 27, 2010 12:11 PM
FREMDFIRMA
Tuesday, April 27, 2010 12:37 PM
KWICKO
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Because it says " census ", that's an OUTRAGE ?
Tuesday, April 27, 2010 12:39 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Because it says " census ", that's an OUTRAGE ? Actually, because it's a violation of federal law, that's an outrage. Try to keep up.
Tuesday, April 27, 2010 1:17 PM
Tuesday, April 27, 2010 1:31 PM
STORYMARK
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Because it says " census ", that's an OUTRAGE ? Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!" Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."
Tuesday, April 27, 2010 2:57 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Geezer: Okay, here's the new legislation. Search H.R.4621 at http://thomas.loc.gov/home/c111query.html and here's U.S. Code 39 USC 3001 i, http://uscode.house.gov/uscode-cgi/fastweb.exe?getdoc+uscview+t37t40+1520+1++%28%29%20%20AND%20%28%2839%29%20ADJ%20USC%29%3ACITE%20AND%20%28USC%20w%2F10%20%283001%29%29%3ACITE%20%20AND%20%28CHAPTER%20ADJ%20%2830%29%29%3AEXPCITE%20%20AND%20%28PART%20ADJ%20%28IV%29%29%3AEXPCITE%20%20%20%20%20 ...which hasn't been updated with the new language. Put them together and, per paragraph (2)(B) it's illegal to mail something with "Census" on the envelope unless exceptions are met, such as... "(B) the envelope or outside cover or wrapper in which such matter is mailed bears on its face in capital letters and in conspicuous and legible type, in accordance with regulations which the Postal Service shall prescribe, the following notice: "THIS IS NOT A GOVERNMENT DOCUMENT.", or a notice to the same effect in words which the Postal Service may prescribe...". Here's the envelope. now we have to find out what "...a notice to the same effect in words which the Postal Service may prescribe..." is to find out if the notice meets the letter of the law. Would "THIS IS NOT A GOVERNMENT DOCUMENT" not in all caps apply? "Keep the Shiny side up"
Tuesday, April 27, 2010 4:08 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: Keep going; what else have you left out? Holler if you need help with the rest of it.
Tuesday, April 27, 2010 4:20 PM
Quote: H.R.4621 Title: Prevent Deceptive Census Look Alike Mailings Act Sponsor: Rep Maloney, Carolyn B. [NY-14] (introduced 2/9/2010) Cosponsors (20) Latest Major Action: Became Public Law No: 111-155 [GPO: Text, PDF] SUMMARY AS OF: 4/7/2010--Public Law. (There is 1 other summary) Prevent Deceptive Census Look-Alike Mailings Act - Declares matter that bears the term "census" on its envelope, outside cover, or wrapper, but that constitutes a solicitation by a nongovernmental entity, to be nonmailable by the United States Postal Service, unless: (1) it satisfies one of the exceptions specified for otherwise nonmailable matter under existing law (such as displaying an appropriate disclaimer); and (2) its envelope, outside cover, or wrapper bears on its face an accurate return address including the name of the entity that sent it.
Tuesday, April 27, 2010 5:08 PM
SIGNYM
I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.
Tuesday, April 27, 2010 8:30 PM
RAHLMACLAREN
"Damn yokels, can't even tell a transport ship ain't got no guns on it." - Jayne Cobb
Quote:Originally posted by Geezer: I gotta say, anyone who'd believe that this document is the official U.S. Census and not a fundraising appeal must be...well...not so bright. I get similar stuff from the DNC all the time, except they're called an official survey instead of a census. They're recycled along with the RNC ones. "Keep the Shiny side up"
Tuesday, April 27, 2010 11:49 PM
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 2:00 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: I can find the words "CENSUS DOCUMENT" on the envelope, as well as the declaration "DO NOT DESTROY - OFFICIAL DOCUMENT", yet I can find no trace of a return address at all, much less an accurate one, or one including the name of the entity that sent it.
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 2:06 AM
Quote:Anyone who thinks this is breaking any law needs a serious vacation.
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 2:16 AM
Quote:Originally posted by RahlMaclaren: Surveys are optional. With a Census, participation is required from EVERY USA citizen (No Exceptions, be they farmer, police, or even President), by the Constitution.
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 3:33 AM
Quote:You can argue that it's a petty violation, a small infraction, but to argue that there's no infraction at all is like holding something in your hands, feeling it, looking at it, and still arguing that the object in your hands doesn't exist at all. Anyone who subscribes to your positions needs to have their head checked.
Quote:Delusional disorder is a psychiatric diagnosis denoting a psychotic mental disorder that is characterized by holding one or more non-bizarre delusions in the absence of any other significant psychopathology. Non-bizarre delusions are fixed beliefs that are certainly and definitely false, but that could possibly be plausible, for example, an ugly individual who believes they could be a successful model. ... A person with delusional disorder may be high functioning in daily life and may not exhibit odd or bizarre behavior aside from these delusions.
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 4:46 AM
HERO
Quote:Originally posted by Storymark: Equivicate all you like, they've done this before, and a lw was passed making it illegal for them to do again - and yet here it is. They broke the law, the end.
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 7:53 AM
Quote:The Republican National Committee is continuing to send out a misleading fundraising mailer labeled "Census Document," just weeks after Congress passed a law aimed at banning such mailers. Last month, in response to virtually identical RNC mailers, members of both parties cried foul, raising the concern that the mailers could reduce the response rate for the actual Census -- which was mailed to Americans last month -- by confusing some voters. "Nothing could be more wrong," declared Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA) -- not a lawmaker known for a commitment to bipartisanship. Congress quickly passed a law -- the House vote was 416-0 -- requiring that mailers marked "census" state the name and address of the sender on the outside of the envelope, and contain an unambiguous disclaimer making clear that the mailer is not affiliated with the government. "What is with these guys?," she said. "We pass a law in record time, with unanimous bipartisan support in both houses of Congress, to reduce confusion about the real Census-- knowing that every census form that isn't returned costs taxpayers money and hurts accuracy. But there goes the RNC again, right back to trying to make a buck on the Census!" She added: "I don't understand why the RNC has so much trouble following the law given the level of bi-partisan support to protect the Census." But RNC spokesman Doug Heye told TPMmuckraker: "We simply looked at the new law, saw that it did not apply to our mailer and continued with the mail pieces." Heye did not elaborate on the RNC's view that the new law did not apply to its mailers.
Quote: Without a single vote of opposition in either chamber, Congress recently passed a law to restrict fake-census materials as part of sleazy fundraising campaigns. Oddly enough, Dems aren't the only ones concerned. In a rare display of bipartisanship, some House Republicans aren't happy, either.Quote:A Republican Congressman just sharply criticized the RNC's mailers as an effort to "deceive people" in an interview with me just now, and confirmed that he and a second GOPer are set to demand that RNC chair Michael Steele drop the practice immediately lest they remain in violation of the law. What's more, the U.S. Postal Service is investigating the RNC's use of the mailers, the Congressman, Jason Chaffetz of Utah, confirms to me. "They're trying to be deceptive, and it outrages me," Chaffetz said by phone just now.Chaffetz and Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) are reportedly drafting a letter to the RNC, demanding they stop their fake-census mailings. I realize that, on occasion, the RNC will do something outrageous in the hopes that its misconduct will generate its own attention. For example, it might create a loathsome web ad, which it has no intention of airing on television, simply in the hopes that the networks will air for free as part of the coverage of the story. But if there's an upside to the fake-census story, I don't see it. The RNC just looks sleazy, reckless, and possibly even criminal, with no apparent upside. When far-right House Republicans are raising a fuss, you know the RNC has crossed a line.
Quote:A Republican Congressman just sharply criticized the RNC's mailers as an effort to "deceive people" in an interview with me just now, and confirmed that he and a second GOPer are set to demand that RNC chair Michael Steele drop the practice immediately lest they remain in violation of the law. What's more, the U.S. Postal Service is investigating the RNC's use of the mailers, the Congressman, Jason Chaffetz of Utah, confirms to me. "They're trying to be deceptive, and it outrages me," Chaffetz said by phone just now.
Quote: A 2009 spending spree has left the Republican National Committee (RNC) with its worst election-year cash flow this decade. The largest GOP party committee has $8.7 million in the bank heading into an election year with 37 governors’ races, a dozen major Senate contests, dozens more in the House and an all-important redistricting cycle on the horizon. Said one RNC official: “It is very troubling, and the thing is, most people don’t understand this. But it is really troubling.” The RNC had $22.8 million in cash and no debt when Michael Steele was elected chairman at the end of January, but has since seen its cash on hand drop to less than $9 million at the end of November. Over the previous five months, while governors’ battles were being waged in New Jersey and Virginia, the committee saw its cash reserves drop by a full $15 million. Through November, the committee spent more than $90 million last year, which is nearly $20 million more than the Democratic National Committee (DNC). “They’re spending money at 2002 levels when they are not raising money at those levels,” said a GOP operative. “That kind of thing worked when RNC was awash in money, but you can’t do that in this environment.” Off-years like 2009 are generally a time for committees to get their financial house in order. They work to retire any debt left from the last election cycle and then build a war chest in preparation for the even-year election. The RNC, though, made huge investments in New Jersey and Virginia, betting on the momentum created by those gubernatorial races to spur more giving. Both were big GOP wins, but the question for many in the party is whether they were worth such a dent in the party’s coffers. And even subtracting the $13 million spent in those races — $9 million in Virginia and $4 million in New Jersey — the committee has just about broken even since Steele took over. The Democratic National Committee (DNC) lost both races, but saw its cash on hand climb to a debt-free $13 million. That’s not a whole lot better than the RNC, but the DNC began the year in much worse fiscal shape, with $5.6 million in cash and $5 million in debt. RNC spokeswoman Gail Gitcho noted that Republicans had taken just one governorship or Senate seat from Democrats in the last four years before the wins in New Jersey and Virginia. While the RNC continues to spend heavily on consultants and outside help — about half of the $90 million it spent between January and November — the DNC has moved much of its operation indoors. The RNC has spent about twice as much as the DNC on consultants this cycle, according to a review of Federal Election Commission (FEC) data. About $35 million of the $90 million spent by the RNC has gone to direct mail and telemarketing — its trademark methods of rounding up donors. The DNC has spent about $11 million on those two things, but has raised nearly as much as the RNC.
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 8:00 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Hero: Quote:Originally posted by Storymark: Equivicate all you like, they've done this before, and a lw was passed making it illegal for them to do again - and yet here it is. They broke the law, the end. Its well established that prhibitions such as the one described do not apply to political speech which is what these mailers are. Thats why you can get political calls even if your on a 'do not call list'. Is it false or misleading? Only if you can't read and people who can't read are not their target audience anyway. H "Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 8:01 AM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Anyone who thinks this is breaking any law needs a serious vacation.
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 8:18 AM
Quote:Deny reality - the typical Rapturd response.
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 8:20 AM
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 11:31 AM
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 11:34 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Storymark: Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Anyone who thinks this is breaking any law needs a serious vacation. Deny reality - the typical Raptard response.
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 12:14 PM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Quote:Originally posted by Storymark: Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Anyone who thinks this is breaking any law needs a serious vacation. Deny reality - the typical Raptard response. Insult and evade. Typical brain dead response.
Quote: Idiots will fuss over the 'butterfly ballot' will likely get upset over this mailer. It's beyond inane and pointless.
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 12:55 PM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Quote:Originally posted by Storymark: Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Anyone who thinks this is breaking any law needs a serious vacation. Deny reality - the typical Raptard response. Insult and evade. Typical brain dead response. Idiots will fuss over the 'butterfly ballot' will likely get upset over this mailer. It's beyond inane and pointless.
Thursday, April 29, 2010 2:17 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Storymark: Once again, the lawyer lies. The law in question was passed specifically because of such mailers.
Thursday, April 29, 2010 2:19 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: Why is it that you're fine with demanding Hispanics have all THEIR papers in order, but you don't give a damn if your own party has its own papers in order? Don't you find that all just a wee bit too coincidental and convenient?
Thursday, April 29, 2010 3:24 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Hero: I note that the folks on this board consider free speech a subjective right that must be protected at all costs...except when they disagree with the speaker.
Thursday, April 29, 2010 3:53 AM
Thursday, April 29, 2010 4:34 AM
Quote:I note that the folks on this board consider free speech a subjective right that must be protected at all costs...except when they disagree with the speaker
Thursday, April 29, 2010 5:30 AM
Quote:The Republican National Committee at the end of last year struck a deal with the Michigan Republican Party that if the state party could raise what turned out to be a half a million dollars for the RNC from its donors, the committee would immediately give the money back, in a scheme apparently devised to increase the RNC’s 2009 fundraising numbers. “It was a known secret that a deal had been struck on the topic,” a former RNC official confirmed to The Daily Caller. The allegations appear to be backed up by FEC reports: Fifteen donors from Michigan maxed out their donations to the committee on a single day —Dec. 31 — the last day of 2009 — giving $456,000 to the committee. Over the next two months, $500,000 was disbursed back from the RNC’s coffers to those of the Michigan Republican Party, with $250,000 given in January and another $250,000 disbursed in February. No state came close to reaching the half a million dollars disbursed back to the Michigan GOP over the following two months. Michigan received by far the most disbursed money of all states over January and February.
Thursday, April 29, 2010 9:55 AM
Thursday, April 29, 2010 3:33 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Quote:Originally posted by Storymark: Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Anyone who thinks this is breaking any law needs a serious vacation. Deny reality - the typical Raptard response. Insult and evade. Typical brain dead response. Idiots will fuss over the 'butterfly ballot' will likely get upset over this mailer. It's beyond inane and pointless. Insult and evade. Typical brain dead Rappy response. That sounds an awful lot like you're backing off your earlier certainty that no laws were broken at all. Why is it that you're fine with demanding Hispanics have all THEIR papers in order, but you don't give a damn if your own party has its own papers in order? Don't you find that all just a wee bit too coincidental and convenient?
Friday, April 30, 2010 2:50 PM
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