REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Whoops: Arizona NOT the Crime-Ridden Hell the Right Claims It Is!

POSTED BY: KWICKO
UPDATED: Friday, May 14, 2010 13:44
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 1556
PAGE 1 of 1

Wednesday, May 12, 2010 5:25 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


So, despite all those claims about crime run rampant in Arizona, about the flood of illegals committing atrocities piled upon atrocities, for all the sky-is-falling doom and gloom predictions and dire warnings from the right-wing echo chamber, the facts themselves give lie to the myth of the Great Immigrant Crime Wave.

http://www.factcheck.org/2010/05/sunday-replay-3/

Quote:

Arizona’s tough new immigration law sparked a heated exchange between Democratic Rep. Luis Gutierrez of Illinois and former Rep. J.D. Hayworth on CBS’ "Face the Nation." Hayworth, who is hoping to defeat Sen. John McCain in Arizona’s GOP Senate primary, claimed his state had seen an uptick in crime, implying that illegal immigrants were to blame, while Gutierrez said that wasn’t the case:

Quote:


Hayworth, May 2: Immigration policy, border security and national security are synonymous. Crime is on the increase. Arizonans have had enough. And interestingly, a majority of Hispanics agree that this law should be enforced here in Arizona.
(CROSSTALK)
Host Harry Smith: J.D., hang on. Luis, I’m going to give you the final word.
Gutierrez: Thank you. The Cato Institute, not conservative, libertarian, says crime is down, statistically.




We put this one in Gutierrez’s column. The Cato Institute relies on numbers from the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics at the Department of Justice. The violent crime rate for Arizona was 447.0 per 100,000 population in 2008, the lowest since 1971. The property crime rate for Arizona was 4,291.0 per 100,000 in 2008, the lowest since 1966.




From CNN:

Quote:


A look at statistics from the U.S. Customs and Border Protection agency and the FBI indicate that both the number of illegal crossers and violent crime in general have actually decreased in the past several years.
According to FBI statistics, violent crimes reported in Arizona dropped by nearly 1,500 reported incidents between 2005 and 2008. Reported property crimes also fell, from about 287,000 reported incidents to 279,000 in the same period. These decreases are accentuated by the fact that Arizona's population grew by 600,000 between 2005 and 2008.
According to the nonpartisan Immigration Policy Institute, proponents of the bill "overlook two salient points: Crime rates have already been falling in Arizona for years despite the presence of unauthorized immigrants, and a century's worth of research has demonstrated that immigrants are less likely to commit crimes or be behind bars than the native-born."




Hmmmm... Seems that crime and illegal immigration have been on the decline for years in Arizona.

Y'all don't suppose this is all about the Republicans and their new brand, the Tea Parties, whipping up voter fear leading into the upcoming mid-term elections, do you?

I mean, that would be so unlike them. [/sarcasm]





Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, May 12, 2010 6:14 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


My libtard sister in AZ was only burgled 3 times by her illegal alien employees.

That's far below the national average. My wife in TN had $50,000 stolen in lost income by illegal aliens, plus death threats.

She still wants 50-million more illegal aliens, and her foreign hubby is employed to "prove" the need for a global warming tax to the foreign banksters.

She used to live in Commie China BTW.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, May 12, 2010 11:32 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Curses! The truth is revealed! There really aren't millions of illegals coming across the border and affecting social services and gaining access to the country after all !








Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, May 13, 2010 2:08 AM

DREAMTROVE




There really aren't. Statisitcally speaking, the net migration is to Mexico. If you've ever been to Mexico, this makes a lot of sense.

The Latinos who come here are also statistically some of the most productive workers. The more "legitimate" immigration, that being our "guest worker program" or migrant labor is a little bit more sticky.

But this issue was never about immigration, it was about hating Latinos. See, Latinos are like Indians, and our country has a genocidal policy abasing them.

Okay, iPad threw inn abasing, but I guess it csn stick

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, May 13, 2010 3:40 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Yes, there really aren't millions of illegals pouring across the border into Arizona. According to the cites above, Arizona's population grew by around 600,000 in the time period between 2003 and 2008 - not millions, and quite certainly not all of even those 600,000 were illegal, much as you'd like us to believe otherwise. The vast majority of those people were

Is illegal immigration a problem? Yes. Is there a human flood pouring across our borders unabated? Nope. Not even close. There is no massive influx of illegals and violent criminals invading our country by the millions. There just isn't. You sound as ridiculous as PN with his claims of 75 million illegals on your doorstep tomorrow morning.

And for the record, NOBODY here with the exception of DreamTrove is advocating completely open borders. That's another lie you keep wanting to commit to.

But thanks for finally admitting that there's no giant illegal immigrant crime wave. That's a big step for you.





Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, May 13, 2010 4:57 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Well, "waaaa!" I posted facts and figures about that in TWO different threads...obviously it made not a dent, whereas your brief stuff (says something about long posts and facts and cites I guess, unfortunately!) may get through. Or not.

I am amazed to see Raptor agreeing (or was that a snipe?), after all he and Wulfie have insisted the crime rate has gone up, or that specific crimes have gone up, or whatever. D'ya think you actually GOT THROUGH maybe?!?!

Those ARE the facts, as represented by several sources on which I posted the specific facts...now I'm waiting for the predictable excuses, defenses, etc. to show up...

You're right; it's not about illegal immigrants or crime, it IS about the "other" and hate of same, obviously. And I'd agree, probably being used and encouraged by those who have their own agenda for such things.

Of course, none of them will know this, as FauxNews will continue to stoke the fires. What a pisser they are! Their bullshit actually gets in the WAY of dealing with the immigration problem (which I freely admit DOES exist, and I'm not for open borders either; we're not Europe, much as I'd like us to be in that particular situation).


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, May 13, 2010 5:53 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Niki, I've noticed that for anything to be heard, you almost HAVE TO have it boiled down to a 5-second sound bite, or it has to fit on a bumper sticker or a t-shirt. Anything longer, and you've already lost about 98% of the audience.

Sad but true, it seems.

I really am thinking of doing up some stickers and t-shirts with the slogan "ARIZONA SB 1070: It's not the heat - it's the STUPIDITY!"

Meanwhile, while Rappy will no doubt admit to nothing, he *has* shifted focus and changed tactics now, no longer trying to cite the nascent immigrant crime flood as the number one reason why we have to round up all the brown people. It's the same thing he's always done; disprove his "facts", and he'll just make up more "facts".

By the way, a big THANK YOU for posting up your posts and facts. They were a big inspiration for my own research and fact-checking, and just further enforced the reality that there is no giant crime wave in Arizona, much as Anthony has confirmed with his own boots-on-the-ground experiences. Of course, Rappy loves to dismiss Anthony's experience, since Anthony only lives there, so what could he possibly know about it? :)


So when we keep getting these new "facts" from the right, these new straw men, and we keep knocking them down with ACTUAL facts, at the end of the day, it does indeed all seem to come down to a fear of a certain group or race. For all the claims that the one thing it's NOT is race-based, it certainly seems to be race based when you strip everything else away.

But that's no surprise at all, is it?

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, May 13, 2010 6:04 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Yeah...sigh...I know. I just feel I have to back up what I say with facts, so it doesn't just give excuse to say "you lie!" or "prove it!" Besides, it's for the other people here, not really aimed at those making remarks as "facts" which definitely are NOT.

But thank YOU for taking the ball and running with it. Hopefully it has some impact, and if anyone questions it, they can refer back to my long list of facts.

Such is life...at least one person "got it".


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, May 13, 2010 8:44 AM

FREMDFIRMA



You know, it occured earlier today that we are the only nation currently who seems to reward failure as an element of policy.

Surveillence society doesn't stop crime ?
More surveillence!

Police brutality doesn't check crime ?
Get more brutal !

People quit buying overpriced shit ?
Blame, Piracy - More copyright laws!

War on (some) Drugs a losing proposition ?
Militarize the police !

Illegal immigration ?
More restrictions !

Anyone else seeing a pattern here ?
It was a fan of Eric Flints books who brought that up, pointed out we're essentially replicating the abysmal failures of copyright lunacy to immigration here, and if you want a good capsule opinion of Mr. Flints take on it...
http://www.baen.com/library/

Bear in mind, by now the man has been proven utterly, irrevocably and completely correct in every goddamn word of that rant, he put his money where his mouth was and prospered when those who went iron-fist about it sank into the mire of their own foolishness, again, like gripping a handful of sand, the harder you squeeze, the more slips right through your fingers.

And I know exactly where this stupid, dangerous, counterproductive philosophy comes from, same place it's come from for a damned long time, the so-called 'parenting' of the force-resistance-more-force model, which did not work, does not work, and it's twisted, evil, inhumane roots run deep within our society as folks unable to actually reason grab for that straw first thing, every single time.

And it never fucking works, never - and so they do the only thing they know how to do, and try to apply more force.

Some day that's gonna end up in a fury of mushroom clouds, it is, and I am crynically surprised that none of the usual suspects have advocated nuking the border into a radioactive wasteland already.

Instead of coming up with lame excuses and lies when it doesn't work, and then advocating more force, perhaps we could, yanno, actually REASON out some kind of solution ?

But no, there we go, reinforcing failure, over and over again... and folks wonder why I find our society so damn repulsive.

-Frem

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, May 13, 2010 10:03 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Frem, I think you might have left out a couple important ones, at least the first of which PN and Wulfie seem to be in complete agreement on:

Border Patrol not doing the job adequately? MILITARIZE the borders! Let the military do it!

And if the new "Papers, Please" law doesn't do the trick? Let the military check everyone's status at gunpoint!

And if anyone wants to push that, and fight it in the courts? Fuck 'em! Send 'em to a military tribunal! Hell, TORTURE 'EM first, THEN send 'em to a military kangaroo court!

Honestly, sometimes I think you people just don't WANT a secure nation. We're just trying to secure your liberty here, dammit! And if we need to screw it down to the floor to secure it, then by god, you'll be screwed down to the goddam floor.



Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, May 13, 2010 10:23 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!









Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, May 13, 2010 10:40 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Ahhhh, Crappy's back in his fantasy world where movies are real life. Was beginning to wonder if he might have decided to live in the REAL world...whew!



"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, May 13, 2010 10:43 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:Ahhhh, Crappy's back in his fantasy world where movies are real life. Was beginning to wonder if he might have decided to live in the REAL world...whew!





Have ya checked the site at where you're posting honey?

Don't make me go get my Dan Akroyd glasses on again.....






Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, May 13, 2010 10:46 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Which has absolutely nothing to do with what you posted, as usual, so is totally irrelevant.

Betcha the "hero" triumphed in that clip...not going to bother watching. Have a feeling it has nothing to do with the subject under disussion, as usual. Crappy, YOU should be here under the name "Hero", you want to see yourself that way so badly. Or maybe DelusionalHero?


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, May 13, 2010 10:50 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


niki

you need to get out more.

or laid once.

which ever.






Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, May 13, 2010 11:45 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

Is that from Saturday Night Live, too?

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, May 13, 2010 11:47 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

Is that from Saturday Night Live, too?

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner



I hope you're referring to my remarks , and not the Jean Luc Picard clip I posted.

Chrissy would hunt you down and nipple twist you into next week!






Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, May 13, 2010 10:00 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

Yes, I am referring to your remarks. I recognize the bald avenger 2.0


--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, May 14, 2010 9:10 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Hooo kay, I take back my apology. That's pretty close, and I'll bet it doesn't come from SNL.

Betcha I get out into the wild more than you do...especially given how much you post. Supposedly you have a job, so how do you manage that? I walk my dogs on trails daily, how much of the REAL world do YOU see?

And I've been laid plenty of times, thank you...regardless of what you might think, it does NOTHING to change one's view of reality, that's pretty much another matter altogether.

YOU, on the other hand, need a brain transplant. Or maybe an injection of reality. There's a good method for that, it's called electroshock therapy.

Reality's reality, you just don't want it to be.


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, May 14, 2010 9:23 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

Quite a leap from being a 'stupid slut' in a presumed SNL joke to being a celibate shut-in a couple of days later.

Is it at all possible to discuss things on this board without resorting to personal insults?

On the flip side, I'm quite certain that Raptor does not need a brain transplant or electroshock therapy. It is possible to be consistently wrong without needing a medical procedure. Though I understand your desire to lash back against this kind of remark, I also understand that you are much better than that. No need to stoop.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, May 14, 2010 9:31 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I know, mea culpa; sometimes I give in to stooping when it's personal. I made the mistake of apologizing for the "slut" remark...should have known I'd have to take it back.

I've no problem that he's consistently wrong, it's the absurdity and way he immediately goes after others that I find disgusting, and some of the other things about me that think he might need...

Ooo, maybe "antisocial personality disorder"...

Oops, enough of that. As a bipolar myself, with friends who are both schiz and dissociative, it was really doing them a disservice. They're far more reasonable and nicer than he is. So my apologies to the mentally disordered community; I'll just write him off as a deranged, prime example of an RWA follower. How's that?

And no, for most here it doesn't seem possible; when one reads enough of people like Crappy and the VERY personal insults of PN of which I have been on the receiving end, it tempts one to become more like them, unfortunately. I'll try again to resist...


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, May 14, 2010 9:33 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


http://www.voiac.org/

(stepping back to watch the fur fly)

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, May 14, 2010 10:40 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


No fur flying, because I know you got yourself in a corner. On the site you provided, it says:
Quote:

Through exclusive FSM investigation, we have discovered that crimes committed by foreign nationals, including illegal aliens, on American soil are not tracked, recorded, or reported by the FBI or the Justice Department as being committed by foreign nationals. This includes all crimes, including those committed by illegal alien terrorists to illegal alien criminals who are currently molesting, raping, killing, and murdering Americans in shocking numbers.


So first, the collage represents people who were victims of crimes by legal AND ILLEGAL aliens, to start with. What gives with "Illegal Alien Arrested for Lewd Conduct"??

Secondly, the text of the site makes it obvious there is a bias from the get-go. For example:
Quote:

We are creating this registry and data base to change this disgrace....FSM will attempt to correct this malfeasance.

FSM has discovered that the illegal alien population contains a disproportionately large percentage of hard core criminals, sexual predators, and drunken drivers. (Can they cite and prove this?)

Unfortunately, in our politically correct era, "invasion" and "domestic violence" are now parsed with the word "is." Regardless, our republican principals are being ignored, our borders are being trampled, our laws broken, our sovereignty violated, and our citizens are under attack from outside peoples, foreign nationals, who are committing more and more (despite crime numbers having gone down, as can be proven, for the last few years?) domestic violence, denying American Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness, as well as Safety and Happiness. (all capitalized, note)



Third, note that the listing you provided is of the "illegal aliens" themselves, not the victims like mine. Ergo, there are five entries for one crime for a single crime, whereas each entry I'm providing covers however many victims were involved.

Nnetheless, I'm not gonna take the time to refute it or find photos or make a collage like that, but how about a list of just a FEW Latinos who suffered hate, abuse and death at the hands of only Caucasians? Bear in mind this is a partial listing only, these are HATE CRIMES, not crimes for any other gain (such as robbery, etc.) and the only reason these crimes were committed was because the victim was LATINO. The first liste is just the links, you can click on them at http://raciality.blogspot.com/2009/01/list-of-latino-victims-hate-crim
es.html
for the specific story.

Quote:

Hate Crimes, Murder and Aggression against Latinos
With Photo Albums and Videos of Murdered People and Families

Murder :

Videos : Remembering and Honoring Marcelo Lucero, Killed in Patchogue, Long Island, New York on November 2008 by Coward Terrorists

Honoring the Murdered Latinos - Latinos as Human Beings with Family, Friends, Activities, Love - Marcelo Lucero - His Family fights for Justice

Shenandoah Immigrant Killing (CNN Newsroom - August 3, 2008) - The Lawyers speak - Photos of Luis Ramirez, Crystal Dillman, etc

Latino boy 16, David Ritcheson, tortured and sodomized by Gang of Whites - Wheelchair and Colostomy Bag - commits suicide - Houston, Texas

2008 : Photo Album and Videos of Jose Sucuzhanay - The Pain of the Sucuzhanay Family for Horrible Murder

2008 : Photo Album and Videos of Marcelo Lucero, Brutally beaten and stabbed in New York - November 2008

2008 : Photo Album and Videos of Crystal Dillman - Wife of Luis Ramirez, kicked to death by Gang of Teen Terrorists

2007 : he killing of Guatemalan immigrant Lazaro Tista - Plainfield cops charge 3 with bias attack in Plainfield, New Jersey

2009 : George W. Bush pardons the Coward Murder of a Defenseless Unarmed Mexican - Story of a Most Brutal Racist Execution - Prize to Cowardice

Plainfield, New Jersey - Boiling Town with Hate - Murder of Several Latinos : Lazaro Tista and Samuel Aguilar Jimenez

The Killing of Guatemalan Immigran Rene Perez

Brutal Murder of a sick Man, Ecuadorian Immigrant Manuel Aucaquizhpi


Aggressions :

Five teens charged with hate crime in Sloatsburg, New York - Latinos living in fear of these coward terrorists

2009 Coward Racist Policeman beats and sprays a Latina with Chemical Irritants - In Manassas Park, Virginia - Police Racism, Cowardice and Terrorism

Most Brutal Sadistic Thugs in Court - The Attackers of Wilter Sanchez and Lucas Santos - Different Attacks

2009 : Another Brutal Racial Attack against a Latino in North Plainfield, New Jersey - Gang of Five, Racial Slurs and Kicking the Victim - Victim in Hospital

2008 : Racial beatings in San Jacinto Valley linked to Obama election, police say - Five Grave Attacks - Hemet and Riverside County in Southern California

2008 : 19 year old Latino knocked unconscious, repeatedly stomped and kicked in the head by White Supremacists , in Hemet, California

2008 : Jordan Gruver vs Imperial Klans of America - He Won a $2.5 Million Lawsuit against the Klu Klux Klan

2007 : Oregon : Youths attack two Latino men with rocks, racist words - A Big Gang of 30 or 40 cowards - Alcohol Teenagers

2008 : Assaults on Latinos Spur Inquiry in New York City - Too many Murders and Attacks - The New York Times

2008 : Beating a Hispanic citizen with baseball bats and yelling racial slurs - In Revere, Massachusetts

2008 : "I don't like minorities," and he slashed the Hispanic man's throat - 4-inch wound - Florida - Hate Crime

2007 : The Best Video I have found of the Agression and Kicking of the Ecuadorian Girl in Barcelona Spain

The Brutal Murder of a sick Latino Man by a gang of Teens with Baseball bats in 1994, in New York City. Good to remember in these times of NYC Sadism

Gang of White Supremacists in Phoenix Arizona : Under arrest for Stabbing a Black and a Latino and Beating a White Woman. They have Criminal History

2008 : Three teens charged after threatening to kill four 11-year-old Latino boys - Teens learning the Clockwork Orange Brutality in California

Compilation of Many Hate Crimes against Latinos - Hate Crimes Against Latinos Flourish

That last one? Here's the text of the compilation:

Quote:

JAN. 9, 2004 Dateland, Ariz. Pedro Corzo, a Cuban-born regional manager for Del Monte Fresh Produce, is gunned down by two Missouri residents — 16-year-old Joshua Aston and his 24-year-old cousin Justin Harrison — who traveled with Aston's younger brother, 15-year-old Nicholas Aston, to a remote section of southern Arizona with the specific intent of randomly killing Mexicans. The brothers shaved their heads before embarking on their odyssey. Corzo was ambushed after he stopped at a roadblock the group constructed from boulders.

DEC. 29, 2004
Redlands, Calif.
Two Latino men and a Latina woman are beaten and kicked in the parking lot of a strip club by a "gang of about 10 skinheads," as later reported by the San Bernardino County Sun. The neo-Nazi skinheads yell racial slurs at their victims, prompting the Redlands police chief to declare that hate crime charges will be pursued if and when the perpetrators are caught.

MAY 7, 2005
Maryville, Tenn.
A Mexican grocery store is vandalized by five white men who shatter windows, damage a refrigerator and spray-paint neo-Nazi symbols, causing over $17,000 in damage. Two men — Thomas Lovett and Jacob Reynolds — eventually plead guilty and are each sentenced to six months in prison.

FEB. 17, 2005
Fabens, Texas
Osvaldo Aldrete-Dávila, who is unarmed and fleeing apprehension on foot, is shot at 15 times by two U.S. Border Patrol agents, Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean. One bullet strikes Aldrete-Dávila in the buttocks, severs his urethra and lodges in his groin. Though seriously wounded, he manages to escape into Mexico.

Though the border patrol officers later find that the van driven by Aldrete-Dávila contained a shipment of marijuana, they are unaware of this fact when they open fire. Ramos and Compean attempt to cover up their actions by cleaning up the spent shell casings and failing to report the use of their firearms to their superiors, as required by Border Patrol regulations. The two agents also fail to report the shooting in their incident reports. El Paso Border Patrol Sector Chief Luis Barker later testifies that Compean told Barker that he and Ramos covered up the shooting because they "knew [they] were going to get in trouble."

After the shooting comes to light a month later, Ramos and Compean are arrested and eventually convicted by a federal jury of felony assault charges, discharging a firearm in a crime of violence, civil rights violations, and obstruction of justice. They're sentenced to 11 and 12 years in prison, respectively.

Ramos and Compean will eventually be transformed by a major right-wing misinformation campaign into high-profile martyrs of the anti-immigration movement. The agents, for their part, will remain unrepentant. Ramos tells a Texas Monthly writer in 2007 that Aldrete-Dávila "got what he deserved."

JULY 12, 2005
Patchogue, N.Y.
A 61-year-old Ecuadorean immigrant is badly beaten by three white men as he pushes a shopping cart through the streets collecting cans. Before the attack, the man was asked if he had a green card. "Then they started pummeling him," Suffolk County Hate Crimes Det. Robert Reecks tells reporters. The man, whose name is not made public, suffers a broken eye socket and facial bruises.

JULY 15, 2005
Keansburg, N.J.
Octavio Vivanco is riding his bike to his restaurant job when Joshua Ramgoolam and James Schmidtberg chase him down and punch him in the face. About 15 minutes later, Rosalino Novorrete is attacked by the same duo as he rides his bike to work, this time with a plastic baseball bat. According to Monmouth County Prosecutor Luís Valentín, Vivanco and Novorette were attacked "solely because of their Latino ethnicity." Ramgoolam later pleads guilty to second-degree bias intimidation, third-degree aggravated assault and third-degree weapons possession for unlawful purposes. Schmidtberg is found guilty of the same charges, plus fourth-degree weapons possession. Both are sentenced to five years in state prison.

SEPT. 30, 2005
Tifton, Ga.
Six Mexican immigrants — Mateo Gomez, his son José Luís Tías, Felipe Mauricio Esparza, Guadalupe Sanchez, Armando Perez Martínez and Mauricío Florindo — are murdered, and at least five others are badly injured, when a group of African-American robbers rampage through four trailer parks known for housing immigrant workers. The parks are also known for home invasions; over 20 homes there have been have been invaded in the months prior to the murders.

Three suspects — Jennifer Wilson, Stacy Sims and Jamie Underwood — are arrested and charged with six counts of murder each. Sims and Underwood are also charged with rape and aggravated assault. District Attorney Paul Bowden announces he will seek the death penalty.

The Georgia Bureau of Investigation's Vernon Keenan tells CNN that the victims "are easy targets because they do not speak English. They're undocumented workers. They keep cash on their persons [and] in their homes. And they are reluctant to report crimes to law enforcement."

When Tifton's mayor Paul Johnson decides to display the Mexican flag over City Hall out of respect and sympathy for the victims, callers to a local radio station bristle with anger and resentment.

OCT. 16, 2005
Sacramento, Calif.
Six people are injured by three white men who crash a private party with the intent of "beating up Mexicans," according to police. One of the assailants uses brass knuckles after shouting racial epithets and "white pride."

MARCH 30, 2006
North Bergen, N.J.

After a series of pro-immigrant marches and demonstrations bring out hundreds of thousands of immigrants and their supporters in cities across the country, an acerbic neo-Nazi radio host makes an appeal for people to carry out the mass murder of any "illegal aliens" sighted.

"All of you who think there's a peaceful solution to these invaders are wrong. We're going to have to start killing these people," Hal Turner writes on his website. "I advocate using extreme violence against illegal aliens. Clean your guns. Have plenty of ammunition. Find out where the largest gathering of illegal aliens will be near you. Go to the area well in advance, scope out several places to position yourself and then do what has to be done."

APRIL 3, 2006
Tucson, Ariz.
Laine Lawless
One of the founding members of the Minuteman movement, Laine Lawless, exhorts the leadership of the neo-Nazi National Socialist Movement (NSM) to launch a campaign of violence and intimidation against Latino immigrants. "Steal the money from any illegal walking into a bank or check cashing place. … Discourage Spanish-speaking children from going to school," Lawless writes in a private E-mail to Mark Martin, "SS commander" of the NSM"s western Ohio chapter. "Be creative. … Create an anonymous propaganda campaign warning that any further illegal immigrants will be shot, maimed or seriously messed-up upon crossing the border."

The goal?

"Make every illegal alien feel the heat of being a person without status."

APRIL 22, 2006
Houston, Texas
David Ritcheson, 16, is attacked by racist skinheads at a house party after supposedly trying to kiss a white girl. David Henry Tuck breaks Ritcheson's jaw, knocking him unconscious, while screaming, "White power!" and calling Ritcheson a "spic" and "wetback." Keith Robert Turner joins in, and the two attackers burn Ritcheson with cigarettes, kick him with steel-toed boots, attempt to carve a swastika into his chest, pour bleach on him and finally violently sodomize him with a patio umbrella pole. It takes 30 surgeries before Ritcheson, confined to a wheelchair and wearing a colostomy bag, is able to return to school.

Tuck is later sentenced to life in prison. Turner gets 90 years.

A year after the attack, Ritcheson, who up to that point has not been identified in press accounts by name, goes public and speaks out to the U.S. House of Representative's Judiciary Committee. In wrenching testimony, the boy recalls the horrific experience for lawmakers deliberating over strengthening federal hate crime laws. "With my humiliation and emotional and physical scars came the ambition and strong sense of determination that brought out the natural fighter in me," Ritcheson testifies. "I am glad to tell you today that my best days still lay ahead of me."

Less than three months later, the teenager commits suicide, jumping from a cruise ship into the Gulf of Mexico. Before his death, he assisted the Anti-Defamation League in creating an anti-hate program at his alma mater, Klein Collins High School.

APRIL 28, 2006
Salt Lake City, Utah
A West High School student identified only as Felipe is attacked while walking to school by two white men who he says call him a "stupid wetback" and tell him, "Go back to your country, you don't belong here." He survives the jumping with a black eye, cut lip and head swelling, reports the Deseret Morning News. The boy is not a documented citizen, according to his mother, who tells reporters, "The fact that you're an immigrant here doesn't mean they get to do that."

APRIL 29, 2006
East Hampton, N.Y.
Three Latino teenagers are lured into a shed by a neo-Nazi skinhead (also a teenager) and then threatened and terrorized with a chainsaw and a machete. The victims are held for 90 minutes while the skinhead and his friends yell racial slurs, including "White power!" and "Heil Hitler!"

"This is how you run across the border," one of the skinheads shouts as he chases the Latino youths around with the running chainsaw. The skinhead is later charged as a juvenile with reckless endangerment and menacing.

MAY 4, 2006
Southampton Village, N.Y.
Jonathan Cedillo is having lunch near a 7-Eleven when cab driver Robert Rossetti slaps his sandwich from his hand and then begins calling him derogatory racial names. Rosetti then begins ramming into Cedillo, who has American Indian and Mexican ancestry, with his taxi. Cedillo's right knee is injured. "He was cursing at me, telling me I'm an immigrant and to get out of this country," Cedillo tells reporters. Rossetti is later convicted of misdemeanor aggravated harassment.

JUNE 12, 2006
Rocky Point, N.Y.
Two Mexican men fishing at a jetty are asked for their green cards, and then beaten and robbed by four teens — William Foley, Nicholas Provenzano, Daniel Sturgis and Jesse Ward — posing as federal agents. The teens rob money from the victims while accusing them of stealing jobs from U.S. citizens. All four are charged with felony robbery and assault as hate crimes. Sturgis eventually pleads guilty to third-degree assault as a hate crime and second-degree robbery and is sentenced to two years in state prison. Provenzano is convicted of charges related to the attack, but his sentencing is deferred. Foley and Ward are charged as juvenile offenders.

JUNE 15, 2006
Yonkers, N.Y.
Miguel Vega, a native of Peru, is walking down the street where he lives when he's attacked and murdered by five men who also steal his wallet. The killers — Abraham Ghaly, David Bendezu, Alexander Mitchell, Joel Lopez and Rodolfo Ponciano — are charged with murder and robbery. Bendezu, Mitchell, and Lopez have their murder charges upgraded to hate crimes after an investigation finds that they specifically sought a Mexican to rob that night. All five plead guilty and are sentenced to between five and 15 years.

JULY 20, 2006
Dayton, Tenn.
Gilberto Mejía, owner of the Mexican grocery store Carnicería Los Primos, is verbally assaulted by anti-immigration activist June Griffin, who barges into the store and tears down a Mexican flag. Griffin then allegedly harasses Mejía and leaves threatening phone messages, which Mejia saves for police.

"It was an act of war," says Griffin, who has unsuccessfully run for the U.S. House of Representatives as a Republican. Charged with civil rights intimidation, phone harassment, theft and vandalism, Griffin is released after witnesses fail to turn up at a court hearing.

"I'm not ashamed of anything I did," Griffin tells The Herald-News.

JULY 25, 2006
Albertville, Ala.
The windows of six businesses owned by Guatemalans or Mexicans are shot out early in the morning, while white-owned businesses on the same street in this northern Alabama town of 17,000 go untouched. A year later, the crime is still unsolved. Albertville police say the attack wasn't racially motivated, although many observers, pointing to which businesses were targeted, suspect otherwise. "We have sporadic, random incidences of windows shot out," says Chief Detective J.T. Cartee.

JULY 30, 2006
Bradenburg, Ky.
Jordan Gruver, a 16-year-old boy of Panamanian descent, is attacked by members of the Imperial Klans of America who are recruiting for the IKA at the Meade County Fairgrounds. Unprovoked, the Klansmen call the far smaller Gruver a "spic," then beat him severely, leaving Gruver with two cracked ribs, a broken left forearm and jaw injuries requiring extensive dental repair. Two Klansmen, Jarred R. Hensley, 24, and Andrew R. Watkins, 26, plead guilty to second-degree assault and are each sentenced to three years in prison. The Southern Poverty Law Center files a lawsuit against the attackers that is later amended to add IKA, its national leader Ron Edwards, and another high-ranking IKA official.

AUG. 20, 2006
Hahnville, La.
Two men, one from El Salvador and the other described by St. Charles Parish sheriff's deputies as "Hispanic," are shot in the legs by Mark Gautreau as they fish in a floodway near Lake Pontchartrain. Witnesses say Gautreau announced he was going to "shoot some Mexicans" before breaking into his own truck (he had locked himself out) to pull out a shotgun and fire at the anglers, who are 500 feet away. Gautreau is booked on two counts of first-degree attempted murder as a hate crime. The case is later dismissed when the victims and witnesses fail to appear for court.

SEPT. 9, 2006
Rockfield, Ky.
A cross is burned on the front lawn of Nelson Espinoza's house in this Louisville suburb next to a sign reading, "My country maybe, my neighborhood NO WAY!!!" Espinoza, a native of El Salvador, lives with his wife in the United States as part of a legal temporary worker program. Almost a year later, the investigation remains open. "We suspect it was probably just kids from the neighborhood," says Warren County Sheriff's Deputy Daniel Alexander.

SEPT. 10, 2006
Hampton Bays, N.Y.
Carlos Rivera, a construction worker from Honduras, is stabbed multiple times outside a bar by Thomas Nicotra and Kenneth Porter, who yell racial epithets during the attack. Nicotra and Porter, who witnesses say also yelled racial slurs at other patrons a night earlier, are both charged with felony robbery and assault with hate crime enhancements. Porter is sentenced to one year in Suffolk County Jail for first-degree assault after testifying against Nicotra. Nicotra is sentenced to nine years in state prison after finally pleading guilty to first-degree assault and robbery.

SEPT. 17, 2006
Laguna Beach, Calif.
A truck driven by two men reportedly hits two Latino workers at a day labor center, and one of the workers is also assaulted. The men in the truck, Artem Soloviev and Dennis Katpilniy, came to the center offering work, but Soloviev ends up in a scuffle with the workers, apparently after they decline his terms. Although witnesses say Soloviev and Katpilniy shouted racial epithets at the workers during the fight, no charges are filed and Soloviev and Katpilniy are released. "We investigated it top to bottom, having collected third-party and the actual defendants' statements, but we did not have enough evidence to support the case," Susan Schroeder, of the Orange County's District Attorney's office, says later.

OCT. 23, 2006
Annapolis, Md.
Hose Aldana and Wilfredo Rodriguez are stabbed and called ethnic slurs by two white men in a pickup truck, according to police. But county police officer Sara Schriver tells local newspapers that since Latinos are technically classified as white, the attack wasn't racially motivated.

"That's crazy," retorts Angela Arboleda, director of criminal justice policy for the National Council of La Raza. "The [victims were] called names and slurs that were derogative to [their] race. That is the most clear-cut evidence that that crime was in fact a hate crime."

NOV. 18, 2006
San Diego, Calif.
Latino workers Estanislao Gonzales and Robert Peña are allegedly assaulted by San Diego Minuteman John Monti at the Rancho Peñasquitos day labor center during a Minuteman surveillance operation. Prosecutors say Monti started the fight after grabbing one of the laborers and chasing him into the street. But jurors later acquit Monti of three counts of battery and one count of filing a false police report.

JAN. 12, 2007
Naco, Ariz.
Javier Dominguez-Rivera, a construction worker from Mexico, is shot dead at close range while on his knees by Border Patrol agent Nicholas Corbett. Corbett claims he fired in self-defense from the front of his vehicle when Dominguez-Rivera picked up a rock, but surveillance footage shows Corbett confronting Dominguez-Rivera at the rear of his vehicle. In addition, autopsy reports show the bullet was fired from between three inches and 2 1/2 feet away, and that it entered below Dominguez-Rivera's armpit and traveled down through his heart, stomach and liver into his lower abdomen.

Dominguez-Rivera was crossing the border with his two brothers and sister-and-law when Corbett apprehended them. The group's eyewitness accounts match the results of the forensic investigation and medical examiner's conclusions. As a result, Corbett is charged with second-degree murder, manslaughter and negligent homicide. Cochise County Attorney Edward Rheinheimer tells reporters: "The evidence shows that at the time he was shot, Mr. Dominguez-Rivera presented no threat to Agent Corbett."

FEB. 7, 2007
Casper, Wyo.
Richard Serafin, who has identified himself as "commanding officer" of a unit of the "Central Wyoming Militia," is arrested after illegally selling a short-barreled AR-15 semiautomatic rifle to an undercover ATF agent. Earlier, he told the agent that he planned to travel to the Arizona border to harm immigrants and boasted that "there may be fewer illegal Mexicans" after his trip. Serafin pleads guilty to possessing two illegal firearms — two of the short-barrel AR-15s — and is later convicted in federal court of possessing firearms to further a crime of violence. He faces a minimum of five years in prison and up to $500,000 in fines.

FEB. 23, 2007
Wright City, Mo.
A Latino immigrant is attacked and robbed by three men yelling, "Immigration enforcement!" who barge into his mobile home armed with a piece of lumber. The immigrant suffers injuries to his right eye and nose. Ryan Scott Harlan, 18, eventually pleads guilty to first-degree burglary and second-degree assault and is sentenced to 15 years in prison. Richard Bryant Lindaman, 17, pleads guilty to the same charges and is sentenced to eight years. The third suspect, Christopher Michael Skelton, is still awaiting trial at press time.

APRIL 18, 2007
Flagstaff, Ariz.
James Wesley Cheek submits a comment to the Arizona Daily Sun threatening to attack a Cinco de Mayo event in a manner similar to the Virginia Tech University rampage just a few days earlier that left 32 people dead. FBI agents arrest Cheek for sending a threatening interstate communication and find that Cheek possesses a collection of firearms and has distributed fliers for the Ku Klux Klan. If convicted, Cheek faces a maximum sentence of five years and up to a $250,000 fine.

MAY 1, 2007
Washington, D.C.
Tyler Froatz Jr., a member of the Herndon (Va.) Minutemen, is arrested after a physical confrontation with human rights activists at a rally. When apprehended by police, he has several knives, a flare gun and a stun gun, and police find a loaded rifle in his vehicle. Days later, investigators search Froatz's apartment and find an additional 15 guns, a Molotov cocktail, a grenade and large amounts of ammunition. Initially jailed on weapons and assault charges, Froatz, 24, is released to his parents in New Jersey a month later to await trial.

MAY 4, 2007
Gaithersburg, Md.
A long-established day-labor center for Latino immigrant workers is set on fire, causing about $2,000 in damage. The center is run by Casa de Maryland, an immigrant assistance organization that has been the subject of many protests and threats. Without any evidence or rationale to support his allegation, Brad Botwin, director of an anti-immigration group called Help Save Maryland, tells The Washington Post that the laborers may themselves have started the fire.

MAY 10, 2007
Dunlap, Tenn.
Frankie Bowman, who in 2005 launched an unsuccessful petition drive to prevent a Mexican nightclub from moving into his neighborhood, is arrested for offering an undercover Tennessee Bureau of Investigation agent $2,500 to burn down Mexico de Noche. Bowan, 52, allegedly told the agent he didn't care whether the building was empty or occupied when the fire was set. He faces trial on charges of solicitation to commit aggravated arson.

Mountain Minuteman founder Robert Crooks E-mails a video to several prominent anti-immigration activists that appears to shows a Minuteman tracking a group of Mexicans through a gun's night vision scope. In the video, an unidentified man can be heard calling the Mexicans "cockroaches" and then firing off a shotgun. "This video shows how to keep a Home Depot parking lot empty," Crooks writes in his cover E-mail, snidely suggesting that recipients know how to "Talk the Talk" but not "Walk the Walk" of effectively fighting illegal immigration. A few days later, a very similar night-vision video surfaces, this one purporting to show a Minuteman hitting a lone Mexican with a sniper shot. Crooks, who initially denies making the videos but then admits it, later says the second video was faked. Although state and federal law enforcement officials look into the incident, no victims are found.

AUG. 8, 2007
Garden Grove, Calif.
Felipe Alvarado, an immigrant working as a janitor at a fast-food restaurant, is taunted with racist threats and then attacked by three men, one of whom is carrying a loaded gun. James Joseph Kelly, Justin Louis Mullins and Cheyne Danica Wilson are arrested and charged with felony assault with hate crime enhancements for allegedly beating Alvarado after yelling, among other things, "Go back to Mexico, you wetback!" Wilson is also charged with illegally possessing a handgun.

AUG. 12, 2007
West, Texas
A Latino man is struck in the face several times after getting into a hostile exchange of words outside a convenience store with a group of white men and women who later tell police that they are affiliated with Aryan Nations, a neo-Nazi hate group. The victim, who has not been identified publicly, fled but is attacked a second time later the same night by several assailants who beat, stomp and cut him. The alleged leader of the attacks, Stephen Ray Chapman, is arrested and charged with engaging in organized criminal activity and aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. The police continue to search for five other suspects.

AUG. 23, 2007
Montgomery County, Md.
Victor Hernandez, a Honduran immigrant dishwasher, is walking home from work when he is kicked into unconsciousness by teenagers who rob him of $160. The two teens arrested tell police they were "amigo shopping" — seeking vulnerable Hispanic workers to rob. The Washington Post reports "alarmingly common" anti-immigrant crimes in the area of Washington, D.C., and its suburbs. Police from Montgomery County, Md., and neighboring counties tell the newspaper that the majority of local robbery victims since 2006 have been Latino.

SEPT. 30, 2007
Avon Park, Fla.
José Gonzales returns home to find his car and garage destroyed by a fire set by an arsonist who also spray-painted "Fuck Puerto Rico" on the garage walls. Gonzales, a U.S. citizen and a mechanic, loses all of his tools in the fire. No arrests are made in the town, which is famous for its passage of harsh anti-immigrant laws.

OCT. 8, 2007
Omaha, Neb.
Eduardo Garcia wakes up to find his truck and his wife's car set ablaze. Two other cars are also vandalized and have the words "white power" and a swastika spray-painted on them. No one is immediately arrested.

This last part only goes as far as 2007, the first listing goes to 2008, I'm not willing to take the time to add more recent instances, you'll just have to extrapolate from these. There are many other lists, photos and videos, under headings such as "Links to Racist Scoundrels that threaten and kill children" and "List of Police Brutality", if one cares to check.

That good enough comeback for 'ya? That was easy, because I know far more Latinos are attacked and killed just for being Latinos than Caucasians by Latinos who commit crimes. We also don't know how the crimes on the site you linked matches up with crimes nationwide, as in how many crimes are committed by OTHER than illegal aliens, as opposed to the list I've presented, which by the way also has specific lists of hate crimes against Blacks, Asians and Gays. Again: These are just HATE crimes, not other crimes committed against these people.

Remember: These people weren't harmed in commission of a crime, nor were they harmed because they were illegal; they were ONLY harmed because they were Latino.


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, May 14, 2010 1:14 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Gosh, no comeback?


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, May 14, 2010 1:40 PM

DREAMTROVE


Frem,

I think most govts reward failure. Tnk about israel for a sec. They just ordered a new missile system to help against het Palestinians. Now, they outmanned the palestinians, out dollar them and very very seriously outgun them, and have been failing for 40 years. Solution: more guns!

Europe still hasn't noticed that socialism doesn't work. Now a historian might think that the collapse of sparta would have indicated this to them some time ago...

China's population is not getting successively more obedient, the iron fist clearly needs to be stronger, no one ever rebels against an iron fist, brazilians are not respect the environment laws because it's still profitable, Islamic terrorism is on the the rise in Africa because like in the mideast, killing
random people doesnt quell terrorism, an endless line of failed policies are getting more .. I just read thaf the ANC still supports the township policy. Dach

It's what govts do. If something does work, try more. I think it follows the old axiom "if some is bad, try more."

Os what's the end game? When do they learn? Just ask the Romans and the Soviets.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, May 14, 2010 1:44 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


"Europe still hasn't noticed that socialism doesn't work. Now a historian might think that the collapse of sparta would have indicated this to them some time ago..."

Hello,

Was Sparta socialist? I thought they were one of those military-centric type governments with slaves and such?

--Anthony



"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

"You can lose a quark you don't girth." -Dreamtrove's words to live by, translated by Ipad

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

OTHER TOPICS

DISCUSSIONS
Elections; 2024
Fri, November 8, 2024 07:36 - 4632 posts
PREDICTIONS THREAD (v.2)
Fri, November 8, 2024 07:27 - 135 posts
Japanese Culture, S.Korea movies are now outselling American entertainment products
Fri, November 8, 2024 07:15 - 49 posts
All things Space
Fri, November 8, 2024 06:48 - 260 posts
NewYork Times LA Times Feminist Gonzo Journalism. Mocking Bird Bezos media ' Washington Compost ' clearly hopes you won't notice how they aided and abetted Taylor Lorenz in endangering Libs of Tik Tok's life (screenshots)
Fri, November 8, 2024 06:33 - 37 posts
RFK's Running Mate Nicole Shanahan: Are You Suffering From Trump Derangement Syndrome?
Fri, November 8, 2024 06:30 - 6 posts
List of States/Governments/Politicians Moving to Ban Vaccine Passports
Fri, November 8, 2024 06:28 - 167 posts
Russia Invades Ukraine. Again
Fri, November 8, 2024 06:27 - 7431 posts
Ugly freak wants to return as Judge
Fri, November 8, 2024 06:24 - 24 posts
Britain Sucks
Fri, November 8, 2024 06:14 - 195 posts
So.... About this "Caravan"
Fri, November 8, 2024 06:11 - 344 posts
Steve Bannon Believes The Apocalypse Is Coming And War Is Inevitable
Fri, November 8, 2024 06:09 - 137 posts

FFF.NET SOCIAL