REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Obama puts interests of unions over that of the Gulf , our economy, the planet.

POSTED BY: AURAPTOR
UPDATED: Friday, June 11, 2010 15:54
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Friday, June 11, 2010 12:53 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Skimmer Boats Available. No Interest.

June 11, 2010 - 5:08 PM | by: Brian Wilson

With millions of gallons of oil needing to be cleaned up -- and with more being added to the mix every day -- oil skimming boats are one of the top priorities. Four hundred are working now and they're barely making a dent. Officials from four Gulf states are begging for more skimmer boats to protect beaches and delicate inlets. So, you might think BP and the Coast Guard would be interested in a proposal from a Dallas businessman to bring as many 25 oil clean up boats to the Gulf. But Fred McCallister says he all he’s hearing is “radio silence.”

“I think all resources that are available should be thrown at it, and I really don't understand it. I don't have the patience for a situation where equipment is available to take care of this type of catastrophe but nothing is happening.”

McCallister claims his proposal has been submitted through appropriate channels. He has12 boats ready to go -- and a line on 13 more. The problem is they are not US owned and operated boats, and are therefore barred from working in US coastal waters by a 1920's law known as the Jones Act.

For the past two days, officials from the Unified Command to the White House said they were prepared to waive the Jones Act if there is a need. Today White House Environmental Advisor, Carol Browner told Fox News that the Obama administration had “not received a request from the Coast Guard to waive the Jones Act.” Browner continued, “ If we have one, obviously we'll respond to it. We talk to Admiral Allen every single day – many, many times a day. He is not shy in asking for what he needs. And so if that's what he needs, he will get an answer.”

Admiral Thad Allen is on record saying, he would actively consider waiving the Jones Act if there was a demonstrated need to do so.

“If we have a reason to consider a waiver of the Jones Act, we certainly will do that.” Allen then quickly added, “ None has been presented to me.”

It may be that no waiver requests are making their way up the chain because the idea of waivers is being rejected by those beneath Allen.

A Lt. Commander with the Coast Guard told Fox News offers of help involving foreign ships are not being considered because they do not “meet the operational requirements of the Unified Area Command." In a follow up phone conversation we asked -- is complying with the Jones Act one of those operational requirements? "Yes,” we were told, “It does apply."

McCallister, who was raised in Mississippi, desperately wants to help, but he is growing weary over how hard it is to get his proposal considered.

“I had somebody who is actually on the ground down there tell me that it's some of the most disorganized activity they've ever seen in their lives. This is not handled in an organized fashion. You know, I'm sure that BP [tries] to make the representation that they're doing the right thing, but where the rubber hits the road, it's not happening.”

Joseph Carafano of the Heritage Foundation believes the Obama administration has been slow in waiving the Jones Act out of fear it will offend organized labor.

“They hate when the Jones Act gets waived and they pound on politicians when they do that. So … are we giving in to unions and not doing everything we can, or is there some kind of impediment that we don't know about?”


Admiral Allen said today waivers must be considered on a case by case basis, but Fox News has obtained a general waiver granted by former Secretary of Homeland Security Michael Chertoff in the days following Hurricane Katrina. According to a news article in Tradewinds Magazine, a US Customs official ruled recently that the Jones Act does not apply to foreign owned vessels installing wind turbines off the coast of Delaware.






" Being correct does not excuse a violation of form " - Ducky, NCIS.



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Friday, June 11, 2010 12:59 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


If it's true, it's unconscionably stupid. Given it comes from the Heritage Foundation and FauxNews, I'm skeptical. But it's certainly the kind of boondoggle governments are capable of!

Your title however, has nothing to do with it, as Obama might not even know about it. It's the COAST GUARD, remember? Not to mention you didn't offer a cite, so we could go and read for ourselves to check it out. Why is that?

I know, yet again, you want to blame evvvvrrrryyyyything big and small on Obama, but if you were a real person, I'd say "save some of that hate for BP, and check out the facts for yourself". Waste of time, I realize.

As I said, if it's true, it's unconscionable.


Hippie Operative Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


To our President: “Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar. Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.... oh, go fuck yourself, Mr. President” ...Raptor

To Anthony, unquestionably the most civil person on this forum: “Go fuck yourself. On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. ...Raptor

To Frem: “You miserable piece of shit.” ...Raptor

To Niki: “My guess is it won't just be your ugly face you dislike.....Well, it's true......if you had a soul.” ...Raptor

...Remember, remember, the ugliest member...

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Friday, June 11, 2010 1:05 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Niki

It's true, and it came from the Obama administration.

Bush faced the exact same situation w/ aid for Katrina, and he / Chertoff waived the Jones Act.


I'm just sayin'.

( And I'll ignore your mindless comments about The Heritage Foundation and FOX News. )






" Being correct does not excuse a violation of form " - Ducky, NCIS.


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Friday, June 11, 2010 1:15 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Welllll, let's see:
Quote:

Dozens more private boats were deployed Friday to search for and skim oil, and many more were on standby as their crews awaited hazardous-materials training.

The new boats bring to 158 the number primarily working the Mississippi coast, according to U.S. Coast Guard officials. There are another 220 in Alabama and 112 in Florida.

"We've actually brought in skimmers from outside the country, from Canada and the Netherlands and other places," Allen said, "and it's not only all hands on deck it's all boom and all skimmers on deck as well."

http://blog.gulflive.com/mississippi-press-news/2010/06/more_skimmer_b
oats_join_gulf_o.html


So what boats are being denied? We need specifics. I can't find anything on the internet about what you posted.

Ahh, by searching under McCallister's name, I pulled stuff up:
Quote:

Fred McCallister, an investment banker with Allegiance Capital Corporation, a Dallas based investment banking firm with offices in Dallas, Chicago, Minneapolis/St. Paul, Madrid, Seattle and Shanghai, announced the availability of specialized vessels for skimming oil, deploying oil booms and providing housing for personnel working in the Gulf of Mexico on the BP oil spill cleanup.

Mr. McCallister states that he has contacted BP and the contractors BP uses to procure such equipment to no avail. Mr. McCallister further states that, Adm. Thad Allen, the National Incident Commander, stated on national television today the desperate need for additional skimmers in the Gulf. As an investment banker working in this area, Mr. McCallister has available 12 skimming vessels specifically designed to remove surface oil from the Gulf that are immediately available and several more that can be made available over the next few weeks.

Mr. McCallister's experience with the process to date indicates that a clear need is being stated for this type of equipment but no one is responding to the firms who can provide the equipment needed. If the need for equipment is as stated, Mr. McCallister's frustrations are that these firms designated by BP to procure equipment cannot move forward with their directives due to a lack of response from BP.

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/prnewswire/2010/06/10/prnewswire2010061017
02PR_NEWS_USPR_____DA19478.html


I find that same article dozens of times on many different cites. See nothing about Obama or the Coast Guard, just BP. Even searching FauxNews' website, nothing for "Fred McCallister" comes up. Lots of "Fred"s, but nothing on what you put up.

Even several searches for lines of TEXT directly from what you put up bring up nothing on Google. I really tried. Care to provide a cite?


Hippie Operative Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


To our President: “Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar. Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.... oh, go fuck yourself, Mr. President” ...Raptor

To Anthony, unquestionably the most civil person on this forum: “Go fuck yourself. On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. ...Raptor

To Frem: “You miserable piece of shit.” ...Raptor

To Niki: “My guess is it won't just be your ugly face you dislike.....Well, it's true......if you had a soul.” ...Raptor

...Remember, remember, the ugliest member...

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Friday, June 11, 2010 1:18 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Well, to be honest, we have no idea where the request DIDN'T come from.....

Browner blames Allen, Allen says anyone could request the waiver, and that it doesn't have to come from him....


Why don't they just ask someone from the former administration, you know...folks who have EXPERIENCE in - ANYTHING ??








" Being correct does not excuse a violation of form " - Ducky, NCIS.


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Friday, June 11, 2010 1:19 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Don't ignore my comment...it's valid. You RWAs immediately refute anything Huffington or MSNBC report; Heritage and FauxNews are known for bias and outright lying. Especially given I can't find anything about it on FauxNews' website or the internet, it becomes questionable unless it can be verified.

I don't care what happened in Katrina; Katrina was a natural NATIONAL disaster, Obama could do what he liked. This is a disaster caused by BP; they are responsible and in charge (despit the fact they shouldn't be--THAT you can argue) and the article, posted all over the internet, says the problem is permission FROM BP. So give us a cite, or accept rejection of your claim.


Hippie Operative Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


To our President: “Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar. Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.... oh, go fuck yourself, Mr. President” ...Raptor

To Anthony, unquestionably the most civil person on this forum: “Go fuck yourself. On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. ...Raptor

To Frem: “You miserable piece of shit.” ...Raptor

To Niki: “My guess is it won't just be your ugly face you dislike.....Well, it's true......if you had a soul.” ...Raptor

...Remember, remember, the ugliest member...

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Friday, June 11, 2010 1:22 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


In other words, you have no verification, you can't point to where it even exists on FauxNews' website, can you tell us where you GOT IT even? If not, why should we believe it at all? You can't just post something and say "this is a fact" without any proof, it doesn't work that way.

So show SOME kind of proof, or forget about it. And knock off the snarks--well, no, you won't, it's an attempt to divert the argument, so why bother.

Where did you get the fact that you just wrote? Are those "facts" in the article, and if so, WHERE IS THE ARTICLE so we can read it ourselves??


Hippie Operative Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


To our President: “Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar. Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.... oh, go fuck yourself, Mr. President” ...Raptor

To Anthony, unquestionably the most civil person on this forum: “Go fuck yourself. On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. ...Raptor

To Frem: “You miserable piece of shit.” ...Raptor

To Niki: “My guess is it won't just be your ugly face you dislike.....Well, it's true......if you had a soul.” ...Raptor

...Remember, remember, the ugliest member...

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Friday, June 11, 2010 1:22 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


I don't buy that Obama has put the interests of the unions ahead of anything, really. Certainly not in the aftermath of the Arkansas primary earlier this week, and the comments coming out of the White House the next day.

And from the article Niki brought up - complete with cites and all! - it seems pretty clear it's *BP*, not the administration, who's setting up the roadblocks.

Rappy obfuscating corporate malfeasance? Figure the odds...

Mike

On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. --Auraptor

This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on. --Fremdfirma

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Friday, June 11, 2010 1:26 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I agree, Mike. Given the statement that "A Lt. Commander with the Coast Guard told Fox News offers of help involving foreign ships are not being considered", which directly contradicts the story all over the internet that FOREIGN SHIPS ARE BEING USED, it becomes even more questionable.

Not to mention that I can find NOTHING about it on FauxNews' website...since it's all full of "...told Fox News", etc., why isn't it on their website?? Still waiting for a cite or any form of proof...


Hippie Operative Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


To our President: “Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar. Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.... oh, go fuck yourself, Mr. President” ...Raptor

To Anthony, unquestionably the most civil person on this forum: “Go fuck yourself. On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. ...Raptor

To Frem: “You miserable piece of shit.” ...Raptor

To Niki: “My guess is it won't just be your ugly face you dislike.....Well, it's true......if you had a soul.” ...Raptor

...Remember, remember, the ugliest member...

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Friday, June 11, 2010 1:33 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Niki -

Then you're not trying.

Quote:

Carol Browner told Fox News that the Obama administration had “not received a request from the Coast Guard to waive the Jones Act.” Browner continued, “ If we have one, obviously we'll respond to it. We talk to Admiral Allen every single day – many, many times a day. He is not shy in asking for what he needs. And so if that's what he needs, he will get an answer "



Quote:



Q: There are many people who say that the best dredgers and skimmers in the world come from countries like the Netherlands and France and that they can't—they're not being asked to come in because of the Jones Act. Is that the case? And why not get around that, suspend that, so you can bring that other you know technology in?

ADMIRAL ALLEN: Well, first of all, those are source countries. That's correct, they're available. But we are using them. We are dealing with folks like Norway, the Netherlands, Canada and other places. Anyplace that's got skimming capability that's available, we're willing to talk to them, and we actually have, in some cases, actually transferred the equipment down and will continue to do that.

If it gets—if it gets to the point where there's a Jones Act required, we're willing to do that, too. Nobody's come to me with a request for a Jones Act waiver, but any skimming capability we can bring in, we're looking for.

Q: So are the actual boats being brought in or just the equipment?

ADMIRAL ALLEN: Well, in some cases it's the skimmer itself. In some cases, the skimming equipment is organic to the vessel itself. It depends on what you're talking about. To my knowledge, what we brought in is actually skimming equipment rather than the vessels themselves, but we can give you a detailed listing. http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/06/10/95711/transcript-of-adm-thad-all
ens.html





Quote:

BREAKING: WH Energy Czar Browner Unaware Adm. Allen Willing to Waive Jones Act That Is Slowing Oil Spill Disaster Clean-Up

From a transcript released by the White House of the daily press briefing with Coast Guard Admiral Thad Allen, we learn that some of the best dredgers and skimmers from countries like Belgium, The Netherlands and Norway are being kept away from clean-up efforts in the BP oil disaster in the Gulf of Mexico because of the Jones Act—a protectionist law that requires vessels working in US waters be built in the US and be crewed by US workers.

Waivers to the Jones Act were granted by the administration of George W. Bush in the days following hurricane Katrina. And today, the Obama White House said waivers might again be considered. “If there is the need for any type of waiver, that would obviously be granted,” said White House Spokesman Robert Gibbs. “But, we’ve not had that problem thus far.”

http://potluckbloggers.wordpress.com/2010/06/11/breaking-wh-energy-cza
r-browner-unaware-adm-allen-willing-to-waive-jones-act-that-is-slowing-oil-spill-disaster-clean-up
/











" Being correct does not excuse a violation of form " - Ducky, NCIS.


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Friday, June 11, 2010 1:41 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Just turn on FOX News. Wait a few minutes, they'll replay the video clip of EPA Chief saying exactly what I posted. And then, following that, you'll see Thad Allen say pretty much what I posted, that the waiver can come from anywhere, not just him.

The Bush admin got the waiver, why can't Obama's ?

And spare me the moronic " give the link, or forget it " line. I gave you all you need, and you still ignore the facts. I can lead you to the answers , but I can't process the information FOR you.

FOX is light years more credible than HuffingtingPuffington. Hell, even The Drudge Report eclipses Ariana's joke of a tabloid agency. Spare me the whines and grow the hell up.






" Being correct does not excuse a violation of form " - Ducky, NCIS.


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Friday, June 11, 2010 1:42 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Why don't they just ask someone from the former administration, you know...folks ho have EXPERIENCE in - ANYTHING ??





"folks ho have..."?

"Crassic".


But you're right - the previous administration has TONS of experience in turning down foreign aid for Louisiana.

Quote:

Allies offered $854 million in cash and in oil that was to be sold for cash. But only $40 million has been used so far for disaster victims or reconstruction, according to U.S. officials and contractors. Most of the aid went uncollected, including $400 million worth of oil. Some offers were withdrawn or redirected to private groups such as the Red Cross. The rest has been delayed by red tape and bureaucratic limits on how it can be spent.
In addition, valuable supplies and services -- such as cellphone systems, medicine and cruise ships -- were delayed or declined because the government could not handle them. In some cases, supplies were wasted.



http://www.first-draft.com/2007/04/bush_administra.html


Quote:

(FinalCall.com) - On a September 1, 2005 broadcast of “Good Morning America,” President George W. Bush said that the country was prepared to handle all Hurricane Katrina aid internally. “I do expect a lot of sympathy and perhaps some will send cash dollars,” the President said of foreign governments, “But this country’s going to rise up and take care of it.”
Over 20 months later, more reports are coming forth that the United States government officials were turning down numerous offers of aid from foreign allies, while images of death, suffering and destruction went throughout the world..



http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/article_3584.shtml



I'm still trying to find in the Archives here where you denounced Bush for his incompetence... Hopefully you'll help me out and show me the relevant posts.

Sure you will.

Mike

On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. --Auraptor

This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on. --Fremdfirma

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Friday, June 11, 2010 2:28 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Mmmm, good, something to sink my teeth into. It appears from what you posted that a waiver of the Jones Act is NOT NEEDED at this time in order to use foreign vessels. It also appears that FauxNews is trying to twist the facts:
Quote:

Fox & Friends misleads on international aid to the Gulf spill

While discussing the Jones Act, Fox & Friends' Brian Kilmeade misleadingly referenced "our inability or decision not to use the rest of the world's offers to help us skim up the sludge." In fact, the U.S. has used cleanup equipment from other nations "and will continue to do that," according to Coast Guard Adm. Thad Allen.

Fox & Friends misleadingly suggests we are not "us[ing] the rest of the world's offers to help us skim up the sludge"

Kilmeade suggests we are not "us[ing] the rest of the world's offers to help us skim up the sludge." On the June 11 edition of Fox News' Fox & Friends, Kilmeade, during a discussion of the Jones Act -- which stipulates that all commerce transported through U.S. waters be carried by a U.S. owned and operated ship that was also built in the U.S -- claimed that "we've been unable" to clean up the oil as well as the 1991 spill in the Persian Gulf, and said, "Maybe the reason is the Jones Act and our inability or decision not to use the rest of the world's offers to help us skim up the sludge." Guest co-host Eric Bolling claimed, "So the issue is with all this additional help available and this Jones Act preventing more help to come into the Gulf."

In fact, Allen stated that "we are using" equipment from other nations for oil clean-up. In a June 10 press briefing, Allen confirmed that "we are using" foreign technology:

Q: There are many people who say that the best dredgers and skimmers in the world come from countries like the Netherlands and France and that they can't -- they're not being asked to come in because of the Jones Act. Is that the case? And why not get around that, suspend that, so you can bring that other you know technology in?

ADMIRAL ALLEN: Well, first of all, those are source countries. That's correct, they're available. But we are using them. We are dealing with folks like Norway, the Netherlands, Canada and other places. Anyplace that's got skimming capability that's available, we're willing to talk to them, and we actually have, in some cases, actually transferred the equipment down and will continue to do that.

If it gets -- if it gets to the point where there's a Jones Act required, we're willing to do that, too. Nobody's come to me with a request for a Jones Act waiver, but any skimming capability we can bring in, we're looking for.

Q: So are the actual boats being brought in or just the equipment?

ADMIRAL ALLEN: Well, in some cases it's the skimmer itself. In some cases, the skimming equipment is organic to the vessel itself. It depends on what you're talking about. To my knowledge, what we brought in is actually skimming equipment rather than the vessels themselves, but we can give you a detailed listing.

Gibbs: "We are using equipment ... from countries like Norway, Canada, the Netherlands"; no need "thus far" for "any type of waiver." In a June 10 press briefing, White House press secretary Robert Gibbs fielded a question on the administration's position in issuing waivers to the Jones Act. Gibbs stated that "there has not been any problem" with "using equipment" from foreign countries. From the briefing:

Q Senator Bill Nelson is going to write a letter to the President today asking for some clarification on the Jones Act and whether or not it is in any way inhibiting the U.S. government's use of offers from other foreign nations and foreign-flagged vessels to help in any way -- mediation, skimming, any of the other operations you're doing on the Gulf. What is the administration's position on it? The Jones Act was waived during Katrina by the Bush administration to bring oil in. What's your position on this?

MR. GIBBS: I would say this --

Q Is it an impediment or are you open to waiving it if you need to?

MR. GIBBS: No, no, as Admiral Allen said today, we are using equipment and vessels from countries like Norway, Canada, the Netherlands. There has not been any problem with this. If there is the need for any type of waiver, that would obviously be granted. But this -- we've not had that problem thus far in the Gulf.

Q But you're open to waiving it if you need to?

MR. GIBBS: If there's anything that needs to happen, that will -- we will make sure that it happens.

Fox News' Brian Wilson reported that "some foreign technology is being used in the current cleanup effort." On June 10, Fox News reporter Brian Wilson wrote on his blog that "[t]he Coast Guard and the Administration are quick to point out that some foreign technology is being used in the current cleanup effort." According to Wilson, this technology includes:

- Canada's offer of 3,000 meters of containment boom

- Three sets of COSEQ sweeping arms from the Dutch

- Mexico's offer of two skimmers and 4200 meters of boom

- Norway's offer of 8 skimming systems

On the June 10 edition of Fox News' Special Report, Wilson said that "17 countries have offered help, and some foreign technology has been transferred to U.S. vessels so it can be used. Still, several foreign companies with some of the most advanced oil skimming and collecting ships say they are ready to help, but their vessels cannot be used because of the law."

Fox & Friends repeatedly cropped Allen's comments to omit his discussion of foreign aid already being used

Fox & Friends aired only Allen's statement that "nobody's come to me with a request for a Jones Act waiver." Fox & Friends only aired Allen's statement during a June 10 press briefing that "if it gets to the point where there's a Jones Act required, we're willing to do that, too. Nobody's come to me with a request for a Jones Act waiver." But Fox & Friends did not air Allen's statement that "we are using" technology from other nations and that "[w]e are dealing with folks like Norway, the Netherlands, Canada and other places. Anyplace that's got skimming capability that's available, we're willing to talk to them, and we actually have, in some cases, actually transferred the equipment down and will continue to do that."

http://mediamatters.org/research/201006110023

What this says coincides with all the articles saying we ARE using skimmers from other countries, and that no Jones Act waiver IS NEEDED.

Ergo, if this investment banker is having his offer hung up somewhere, it's not our government refusing/delaying it...it’s BP, AS HE INDICATED. Remember, again:
Quote:

Mr. McCallister's frustrations are that these firms designated by BP to procure equipment cannot move forward with their directives due to a lack of response from BP.
Actually, almost amusingly, the advocates for American mariners are stepping up pressure on federal officials to tighten enforcement of the Jones Act and the Outer Continental Shelf Lands Act (OCSLA):
Quote:

More than 30 foreign vessels are working in the Gulf with foreign crews, Gordon said. The OCSLA specifies that "all units operating on the OCS must employ only U.S. citizens or lawful permanent resident aliens."
( http://www.jonesactquestions.com/home/12-news/550-jones-act-controvers
y.html
)

He was, apparently, talking about a problem with foreign vessels getting around the Jones Act and taking work away from American vessels, not the Gulf spill, so they’ve wanted it tightened...ergo if you want to put Obama in it, he’s REFUSING to tighten the Jones Act despite pressure to do so. None of which has to do with skimmers and the gulf spill, but there's his position on the Jones Act, if you will.

Per your own quote:
Quote:

If there is the need for any type of waiver, that would obviously be granted,” said White House Spokesman Robert Gibbs.“But, we’ve not had that problem thus far.
In other words, there’s been NO NEED to waive the Jones Act, they’re using international help without bothering with it.

Also verifying that fact:
Quote:

If it gets—if it gets to the point where there's a Jones Act required, we're willing to do that, too. Nobody's come to me with a request for a Jones Act waiver, but any skimming capability we can bring in, we're looking for.
Also posted by you. You’re not getting it: THEY HAVEN’T USED A JONES ACT WAIVER BECAUSE THEY DON’T NEED ONE!

So I reject your initial claim. McCallister himself lays the blame at the feet of BP, we ARE using international help, and FauxNews has struck again. I don't need to turn them on to hear their lies, because they've been DISPROVEN. They're using "Jones Act Waiver" as an excuse for things being slowed down when in actuality there's been NO NEED for a Jones Act waiver, we're doing fine without it and accepting international help right now. McCallister himself said he blames BP, but that's not good enough for FauxNews, they have to make it about Obama, and you need to believe it.

Enough time spent on this, I believe you just once again swallowed whole cloth what they spit out and how they twisted the facts. Look to BP, where McCallister himself sends us. When McCallister himself says he fears the delay is because of BP, there is no case to blame our government...

HOWEVER, thank you for a good debate; you presented your facts, I presented mine, and aside from a snide comment or two, you remained civil. That's very important, and shows you can do it. Neither of us changed the other's mind, which is okay, we argued our cases and presented facts as we see them; it's up to others to make up their minds.

'Ya done good, Raptor, thank you, sincerely. Now I'm gonna go have dinner. We can each believe what we choose to; it's a matter of how we each interpret the facts and how we view one another's sources/cites/quotes. I happen to think McClatchy, FauxNews and Pot Luck Bloggers not very believable, and Forbes a bit moreso...tho’ I’ll give you Media Matters sees things from a partisan point of view. Still, for ME, they explained how the story became what it was from FauxNews. That’s okay; there doesn't have to be a winner, I’m just grateful you challenged me fairly and we both put forth our points of view..

(p.s., you beat the hell out of Mike, who did nothing but change the topic and snark. There's one for your books!)


Hippie Operative Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off

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Friday, June 11, 2010 3:18 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Niki

For all your contortions and lengthy cut/ paste jobs, you're missing the point.

This has NOTHING to do w/ FOX, or who ever the hell is reporting the story.

There's no "spin" here, no " twisting of facts".

please, get a grip, drop your ridiculous prejudice on anything NOT from MotherJones.com, and just deal w/ the story at hand.

Browner and Allen are both running around, not knowing what each other said ( though they constantly are talking, every day ) and neither seems to have a clue.

Ships or " equipment ", Allen was being very cagey as to what was or wasn't covered by the Jones Act.

It's a very real and legitimate issue. That's why they were talking about it, that's why past administrations had to deal w/ it, and thus the waiver in the first place.








" Being correct does not excuse a violation of form " - Ducky, NCIS.


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Friday, June 11, 2010 3:33 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I've never read Mother Jones (it's a magazine, isn't it?). I try to look at the facts and understand them.

The facts as I see it are that there is no need for a waiver, they're progressing without one and accepting help from other nations.

Yes it has to do with who reports the story, because if we accept what they say as "fact", we might get it wrong, as I believe happened here. If we just accept the first thing we hear without looking into it, trying to dissect it for ourselves to get the kernels of truth out of what we read/hear, media runs us. That's why I paid attention to the DIRECT QUOTES and interpret from there. They haven't bothered with a Jones Act waiver because they've not needed one; they're already accepting help and if one is needed (i.e., demanded by someone), they'll do so; if someone wants a waiver, they'll do that ALSO. Nobody's felt the need to ask and international help IS being utilized.

It was nice to communicate with you when you were being civil, but you're going back to the old ways, and I don't need to be snarked at. You can refuse to accept what I've found and the conclusion I came to and cling to the one interpretation you started with, that's neither here nor there. There's no bad guy, just a difference of opinion. I'm happy to let it be that.

If you can't see that, there's nothing I can do or say. End of story.


Hippie Operative Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


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Friday, June 11, 2010 3:44 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


There is a bad guy, but for once, maybe, we agree.

You think it's Fox news, and I think it's the bureaucrats in D.C.

I think they'll say anything and everything to cover their a$$.

We both could be hoodwinked, but that's how things work.

We get all focuses on such matters as this, and then something else pops up for us to fuss over, and we'll all forget about the Jones Act, and any parsing of the definition between what constitutes a " ship" and " equipment " .








" Being correct does not excuse a violation of form " - Ducky, NCIS.


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Friday, June 11, 2010 3:54 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


BEAUTIFUL! YOU DID IT! You just made my day, I'm really, really, REALLY gonna quit now, it don't get no better than this! I agree 100%




Hippie Operative Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
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