Well, here we go, and nothing unexpected thus far, it's begun right off the bat:[quote]Leading senators on the Judiciary Committee signaled a contentious..."/>

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Here we go: the farce of judicial nomination attacks from the very beginning

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 13:31
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 1213
PAGE 1 of 1

Monday, June 28, 2010 7:37 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Well, here we go, and nothing unexpected thus far, it's begun right off the bat:
Quote:

Leading senators on the Judiciary Committee signaled a contentious hearing starting Monday on Elena Kagan's Supreme Court nomination, with some Republicans saying a GOP filibuster was possible.

Democrats countered that no nominee from President Barack Obama would have satisfied Republicans.

In an exchange on CNN's "State of Union," Democratic Sen. Robert Menendez of New Jersey chided Republican Sen. John Cornyn of Texas over what Menendez joked were unattainable GOP standards.

"I think if John and some of his colleagues in the Republican caucus had 10 angels coming from above swearing that this person was the most qualified ... for the Supreme Court, was a centrist and would follow the rule of law and obey precedent, they would say 'too extreme,' " Menendez said.

What I’ve heard so far would be funny if it weren’t so sad. Given the Repubs in our government have determined to be the “party of no” for the entire Obama term thus far, it shouldn’t have surprised me to hear their attacks this morning. But they nonetheless disgust me.

The overreach of the attacks and the flimsy positions they’re based on makes me ashamed of my government; admittedly the Republicans on the committee don’t reflect “my government”, they nonetheless once again have destroyed their credibility at the very start by their verbiage and mischaracterizations. We’ve really come to a bad place in our country.

Their bitching about "activism"--the favorite complaint--would be laughable, given the activism (especially recently with the "corporations as persons") of the judges their side appointed.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, June 28, 2010 7:41 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Kagan should NOT be on the SCOTUS.

Period.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, June 28, 2010 1:26 PM

FREMDFIRMA


WHY ?

That's the thing Wulfie, you can't just say no to be sayin no outta some partisan BS, it makes you look like an outright obstructionist, temper tantrum throwin idiot, and one could make a case for it, and a pretty good one...

But if you're *going* to say "no, this person should not be on the supreme court" then having expended that much effort, IF you have an actual reason beyond obedience to your masters for that pat on the head, you've a certain obligation to spill it - and I don't mean "too liberal" or "hippie" or any of those meaningless labels you use cause you don't have the fucking guts to use the racial, sexist, or intolerant slurs you're hiding behind them.

So either have the balls to come out and make your point - something like "I don't think she has a proper respect for the constitutional rights if she thinks the court can pick and choose" or even like "I am not sure she has a complete understanding of the separation and difference between Federal and State legal obligations" - yanno, an actual REASON, rather than just being a dick.

But hey, that's up to you.

-Frem

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, June 28, 2010 1:54 PM

DREAMTROVE


My only scotus concern is federalists. Anyone have the low down on this?

Otherwise, it would ideally be best if the court was 1/2 red and 1/2 blue, except that everythiing would turn out purple, or rather, whoever had five votes would win everything, so better that its split three ways.

Here's a snag: this makes three Jews. As a representative sample of the US, its skewed. I can see that there will be an increase until we reach a point where any position will be automatically decided on the side of zionism.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, June 28, 2010 3:11 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Please.

"Dead" Kennedy and his cohorts were masters at bloviating and trashing the most qualified nominees, and for no reason other than grabbing more face time on t.v.

Kagan isn't nearly as qualified, but she'll still get voted in.

Turn about is fair play. The Dems started this ugliness w/ Bork, and it continues on today.




NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, June 29, 2010 2:21 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Here's a snag: this makes three Jews. As a representative sample of the US, its skewed. I can see that there will be an increase until we reach a point where any position will be automatically decided on the side of zionism.


In a discussion on NPR yesterday, it was noted that there would be three Jews, six Catholics, and that nearly all justices would be from the 'New England establishment' - graduates of Ivy league colleges (most from Harvard).

"Keep the Shiny side up"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, June 29, 2010 3:51 AM

FREMDFIRMA



But, but, but... ALL of them are Homo Sapiens!
At least we think they are, surely that's a conspiracy, innit ?


-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, June 29, 2010 8:39 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


"WHY ?"

She has stated that she believes the Constitution and the Bill of Rights to be a "living, breathing" document.

They are not.

They are not up for "intrepretation". In fact, its when you have people putting their own spin on these 2 documents, that we always end up in trouble.

I get sick to my stomach (and punchy, stabbey) when I hear someone who wants to bring these documents into the "present".

It always starts out with "Rights are not unlimited..."

ETA: Look what happened with the 2A. It clearly states that it is not to be infringed. But it was, and is, and continues to be.. all because some idiot wanted to put their beliefs on everyone else.

Plus, the 2 points you made.

Sorry, I don't always have the time to write things so "poetical".





NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, June 29, 2010 9:12 AM

CUDA77

Like woman, I am a mystery.


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
She has stated that she believes the Constitution and the Bill of Rights to be a "living, breathing" document.

They are not.



Ammendments 11-27 want a word with you Wulfie.


NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, June 29, 2010 9:47 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


DT: There will still be a conservative majority, so how does her being Jewish have anything to do with it? There most certainly won't be "any position will be automatically decided on the side of zionism"...you'd have to have a majority of Jews on the Court for that to happen, even if it would. That's a bit tin-foil-hat for me.

Wulf, you're stuck on listening to FauxNews and spouting talking points again. Look up what Cuda suggested, on that point.

I'm sure you view her as an "activist" judge, given that and your previous stances. The fact is that the most activist judges have been Conservatives, the tag "activist judge" is a talking point used by the Right:
Quote:

One of the great successes of the legal wing of the conservative movement is the widespread connection in the mind of many citizens and pundits of "liberal" judicial philosophy with "activism," and "conservatism" with "strict constructionism." They'd have us believe that "liberal activist" and "conservative constructionist" are basically redundancies, and that there simply is no such thing as a conservative activist. This is patently untrue.

There is a very simple explanation for why a conservative may be activist and a liberal statist--the state of the law. The Warren Court wanted to overturn precedents, and so it ruled laws passed by Congress and (especially) state legislatures unconstitutional. And as the Court of that era slowly and sometimes not-so-slowly changed the law, the justices by definition needed to be less activist as the state of the law became more amenable to their views--precisely because they had changed the law.

But guess what? The Rehnquist Court did the same thing, as Republican-appointed justices found the laws passed by state legislatures and (especially) Congress during the years of the Great Society and thereafter to be out of line with the political and judicial philosophies they brought to the bench. Accordingly, they ruled to change the law too.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_ZTcCp8eYEyI/Sl6iADfvtsI/AAAAAAAAAFk/WINbXri3
E1U/s400/SC-federal.JPG


The most activist Court? A: The Late Rehnquist Court, which in terms of the annual average number of federal statutes overturned by the Court ranks first. Though I only show data from the Roosevelt Court forward, Late Rehnquist has the highest score of any Court era going back to the days of John Jay. So much for modern conservatives' deference to legislatures and the disdain for "judge-made" law."

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/07/conservative-activist-judge-is-
not.html
Quote:

The political right has been remarkably successful with its attack on judicial activism. Whether any particular claim proved true or not, it has served to mobilize the far right "social issues" wing of the party. This, in turn, has helped conservatives and Republicans accomplish two major things.

First, it has led Republican presidents to look further to the right for nominees to the federal bench. Look no further than President George Bush saying he admired justices in the mold of the Court's two most conservative – Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas – and then appointing Chief Justice John Roberts and Sam Alito. It has also put Democrats on the defensive, leading them to nominate judges who are more moderate than many in the liberal wing of the party would prefer. As a result, the federal courts have shifted significantly to the right in both their makeup and in their judgments in recent years.

Second, it has helped conservatives win elections. George Bush's win in 2000 has been attributed, in part, to the use of "wedge" issues and mobilization of the conservative "base" – just the people campaigns about judicial activism are aimed at.

All the sudden, though, the Roberts Court has given the left a new lease on its argument that it is actually the conservative judges who are making up the rules and mangling the Constitution. In 2006, the five-person conservative majority on the Court rolled back years of precedents without even acknowledging they were doing it. They upheld a congressional ban on late-term abortions (what sometimes is called "partial birth abortion") even though the Court just a few years earlier had struck down a similar, nearly indistinguishable, law. They interpreted campaign finance restrictions on corporations so narrowly the remaining law was meaningless. They said taxpayers could not sue over George Bush's "faith-based initiatives" even though such suits against Congress had long been okayed.

To liberal critics, that sort of willful dismissal of precedent is the very definition of judicial activism. Even Justices Scalia and Thomas – though they agreed with the results in these cases – called out their colleagues for not being honest in overturning precedents.

Then came this January's big decision in a case known as "Citzens United." In that case, the Court struck down a congressional law limiting corporate influence in elections – this time explicitly established precedents. The President pointed a finger at the justices in his State of the Union address (prompting an angry shrug from Justice Alito, and – later – a public rebuke from the Chief Justice). Polls showed the decision in Citzens United was wildly unpopular – even among Republicans.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/20100627/pl_ynews/ynews_pl2869_6


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, June 29, 2010 9:56 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Just FYI, what Cuda was referencing was those amendments which DID "modernize" and/or change law:
Quote:

11th Immunity of states from suits from out-of-state citizens and foreigners not living within the state borders. Lays the foundation for sovereign immunity.

12th Revises presidential election procedures.

13th Abolishes slavery and involuntary servitude, except as punishment for a crime.

14th Defines citizenship and deals with post–Civil War issues.

15th Prohibits the denial of suffrage based on race, color, or previous condition of servitude.

16th Allows the federal government to collect income tax.

17th Allows senators to be directly elected.

18th Prohibition of alcohol (Repealed by Twenty-first Amendment)

19th Allows for women's suffrage.

20th Fixes the dates of term commencements for Congress (January 3) and the President (January 20); known as the "lame duck amendment".

21st Repeals the Eighteenth Amendment.

22nd Limits the president to two terms, or a maximum of 10 years (i.e., if a Vice President serves not more than one half of a President's term, he can be elected to a further two terms).

23rd Provides for representation of Washington, D.C. in the Electoral College.

24th Prohibits the revocation of voting rights due to the non-payment of poll taxes.

25th Codifies the Tyler Precedent; defines the process of presidential succession.

26th Establishes 18 as the national voting age.

27th Prevents laws affecting Congressional salary from taking effect until the beginning of the next session of Congress.

Without them, we'd still have slavery, women and Blacks couldn't vote, "you" couldn't directly elect Senators (since, being a woman, I couldn't), Presidents could become perpetual "kings", and more.

You really need to not just listen to FauxNews and Republican talking heads just a bit, and make up your OWN mind, if you were willing to take the time to learn. Or not.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, June 29, 2010 10:04 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Wulfie, do you consider the Constitution to be a DEAD document, then?


You're saying right here and now that you wouldn't support ANY further Amendments to the Constitution, ever. Right? Am I understanding you correctly?

You believe only white male property owners over the age of 21 should be allowed to vote, correct? You believe in slavery, yes? You believe in unlimited terms of office like, say, FDR had? Am I getting your meaning?

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, June 29, 2010 10:09 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
"WHY ?"

She has stated that she believes the Constitution and the Bill of Rights to be a "living, breathing" document.

They are not.

They are not up for "intrepretation". In fact, its when you have people putting their own spin on these 2 documents, that we always end up in trouble.

I get sick to my stomach (and punchy, stabbey) when I hear someone who wants to bring these documents into the "present".

It always starts out with "Rights are not unlimited..."

ETA: Look what happened with the 2A. It clearly states that it is not to be infringed. But it was, and is, and continues to be.. all because some idiot wanted to put their beliefs on everyone else.

Plus, the 2 points you made.

Sorry, I don't always have the time to write things so "poetical".








But isn't that just you putting YOUR interpretation on the 2A? Yes, it says "...shall not be infringed", but it also says "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State..." Some of you 2A guys tend to leave that part out. And since it's not terribly clear, it HAS TO BE interpreted. Are they saying that everybody is required to serve in the militia, so they can be considered "well-regulated"? YOU. DON'T. KNOW. Nobody does, for sure; we're left guessing. Or "interpreting", if you will.

Apparently, though, you feel that your "right" to stab someone or punch them IS unlimited...

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, June 29, 2010 10:13 AM

JONGSSTRAW


"Dog a Kagan, dog a Kagan, dog, dog, dog!"

That's a quote from a sci-fi series of the past. Great respect and kudos if anyone can name :

The series & the episode.
Who said it & to whom.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, June 29, 2010 10:25 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Actually, the Amendments are a good point.

So.

You want to make me have to go thru a backround check, or to apply for a CCW?

Ok, then go thru the proper procedures to amend it to the Constitution.

As to the "militia" aspect of it.

I've said it before, will say it again.

The 2A accomplishes 2 things. It acknowledges the right of an individual to own arms... and to join in a militia in order to KEEP a free state.

In other words, I can own a gun, and form/join a militia to forcibly oust tyrannical government.

Funny how no one thinks of that.

But, by natural law (acknowledged by the Constitution and the Bill of Rights), I have the right to form a militia, arm it with the best weapons of the time... and to overthrow a tyrannical government in order to preserve a free state.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, June 29, 2010 10:40 AM

BYTEMITE


I think we ought to repeal the fourth amendment though. I mean, it did its purpose, the south isn't going to reinstitute slavery on a state level anymore.

...Probably.

I also hope that they wouldn't put up Jim Crow and segregation laws again.

But in any case, eventually the Federal Government has to relinquish some of it's control over self-determination for the states. I think Federal Law seriously overreaches in some places, and prevents states from coming up with unique local solutions to what needs to get done.

Sorry, off topic.

New supreme court justice? Bah. More and more, most of them just follow the party line. If she doesn't, colour me pleasantly surprised, but if she's another ivy league Harvard grad, she probably will. And if she doesn't, she'll probably be brought in line real fast.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, June 29, 2010 10:52 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

nearly all justices would be from the 'New England establishment' - graduates of Ivy league colleges (most from Harvard).
I believe I heard that last night, that most of those we have or have had are from Ivy League...

So how does that make her someone who will "follow the party line" if those from the RIGHT aren't liberal, tho' they're Ivy League...?

The "elitist", "Ivy League" thing makes me laugh. We want people who are uneducated on the bench? It seems to be a well-liked talking point, but hey, we just had a guy who flunked out, how well did that "good old boy" do?

No, judges don't necessarily follow party line--tho' more and more they do. There are many instances of them switching sides...sadly, fewer and fewer. I sure wish we could get more independent-minded judges, but given how things have been going, it's not likely to happen in my lifetime!

From what I've seen, if a judge doesn't follow party line, they don't get "brought up real fast"--rather, the party goes "Shit, we guessed wrong!" and waits for the next chance at appointment.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, June 29, 2010 11:32 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Actually, the Amendments are a good point.

So.

You want to make me have to go thru a backround check, or to apply for a CCW?

Ok, then go thru the proper procedures to amend it to the Constitution.



Sorry, but even Alito (one of the most CONSERVATIVE SCOTUS Justices) said that while the outright BAN in Chicago was unconstitutional, the right to own a gun wasn't without limits.

For instance, WHERE in the Constitution do you find the authority to say that convicted felons can't own a gun (or even vote)? Where does it say a 5-year-old can't take his gun to school?

The SCOTUS doesn't rule out reasonable requirements, and it doesn't say that these rights are unlimited, any more than free speech is without limits (the old "yell fire in a crowded theater" argument comes to the fore).


Quote:


As to the "militia" aspect of it.

I've said it before, will say it again.

The 2A accomplishes 2 things. It acknowledges the right of an individual to own arms... and to join in a militia in order to KEEP a free state.

In other words, I can own a gun, and form/join a militia to forcibly oust tyrannical government.

Funny how no one thinks of that.

But, by natural law (acknowledged by the Constitution and the Bill of Rights), I have the right to form a militia, arm it with the best weapons of the time... and to overthrow a tyrannical government in order to preserve a free state.




But isn't that just YOUR interpretation of it? What if I say that it REQUIRES you to be a part of the militia in order to keep and bear arms? Else why would it mention the militia in the 2A in the first place? Obviously you had the "right" to join a militia.


AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, June 29, 2010 11:33 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
I think we ought to repeal the fourth amendment though. I mean, it did its purpose, the south isn't going to reinstitute slavery on a state level anymore.




Byte, you want another try at that one?

This is the Fourth:

Quote:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


I'd rather not see it go away, thanks.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, June 29, 2010 11:44 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


The 4th Amendment...

and the Patriot Act fits into that.... how?

Its still around is it not? I keep hearing about "hope" (tm) and "change" (tm)...


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, June 29, 2010 11:45 AM

DREAMTROVE


Geezer,

Good point.

Frem,

Not conspiracy, imbalance. Id like the supreme court to in some way represent the population.


Byte,

Mike has a point. Even the third has its occasional point.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, June 29, 2010 11:48 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Maybe she meant the 14th?

Frem:
Quote:

Id like the supreme court to in some way represent the population.
Hey, you're allowed to dream!


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, June 29, 2010 11:52 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


"Sorry, but even Alito (one of the most CONSERVATIVE SCOTUS Justices) said that while the outright BAN in Chicago was unconstitutional, the right to own a gun wasn't without limits.

For instance, WHERE in the Constitution do you find the authority to say that convicted felons can't own a gun (or even vote)? Where does it say a 5-year-old can't take his gun to school?

The SCOTUS doesn't rule out reasonable requirements, and it doesn't say that these rights are unlimited, any more than free speech is without limits (the old "yell fire in a crowded theater" argument comes to the fore)."

And I say... you have the right to yell "Fire" in a crowded theatre.

Sounds crazy does it not?

The whole point is that you have the right to do these things, but that in some cases, you shouldn't. It's all a part of being raised correctly.

Don't shout "Fire" in a theatre. Don't shoot up a school. Don't pry into other peoples business.

I need to write a book. "How to have freedom, but not be a dumbass about it. While also not infringing on everyone else."

You see? Freedom isn't free (tm). But it also requires a certain amount of intelligence and maturity.

The problem lies in that some want to limit that, because they are neither intelligent nor mature. So their under-development becomes everyones burden.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, June 29, 2010 12:08 PM

BYTEMITE


Niki: if they're all educated the same, they'll likely all have the same style of thinking. Which means a higher likelyhood of coming to the same conclusions within their cookiecutter group of choice/alignment.

Our ivy leaguers in government really haven't been doing all that well themselves. I suspect that a sudden epidemic of laziness in recent generations hit them all the hardest.

And I really hope that you weren't strawmanning me and comparing my argument to the same kind of argument that got BUSH reelected. I'd hope you have more respect for me and your perception of my opinions than THAT.

(I note that Bush was an ivy leaguer, as well, and that probably a lot of his folksy attitude was an act... Though he probably was also quite an idiot and completely incompetent. Most politicians are, they're just better at hiding it)

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, June 29, 2010 12:10 PM

BYTEMITE


Kwicko: Oops, yeah, fourteenth amendment. mistype.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, June 29, 2010 12:36 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


The "good old boy" thing was showing the opposite end of the spectrum, not a snark directed at you. However long Dumbya spent in college, I seem to recall his grades stank, and did he finish? I forget. I seem to remember he flunked out SOMEWHERE, but that could be a false memory.

I agree with what you said; but your point, or at least the way you wrote it, was that because she's Ivy League, she'll vote with the Democrats. It's a common disparagement, "Ivy League", "elitist", etc. My point was initially that almost ALL of them are or have been Ivy League, and I think they've come up with some fairly good decisions (albeit perhaps later than the rest of the country came to the same conclusions...).

So I don't think it holds true either that because she has an Ivy League background she is destined to vote Dem, OR that having university-educated people on SCOTUS is necessarily a bad thing.

What alternative were you pointing to, if not the folksy type? Virtually every university turns out the same kind of thinking--well, barring anachronisms like Berserkeley anyway. Surely you wouldn't want someone on the Supremes who had no college education, or just a junior college education--oh, wait. Do they have to be at least lawyers? 'Cuz they couldn't get into law school without a university degree, right?

I'm just not sure what your alternative is, mostly. If you get no response, it's 'cuz I've been on here all DAY and it's getting hotter than hades. I gotta get off.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, June 29, 2010 12:37 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:

The problem lies in that some want to limit that, because they are neither intelligent nor mature. So their under-development becomes everyones burden.




Is this where your whole "Sparta" mythology comes into play? You know, the parts they DIDN'T show in the movie, where the "undesirables" are tossed into the pit? Take Sarah Palin's youngest, for example; that kid is NEVER going to be fully developed and mature. Shall we just dash his head against the rocks and move on? Is that what you're suggesting? That's what it comes across as - more of your rampant nationalism.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, June 29, 2010 12:44 PM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


No, Kwick, you clown. Just that the ideals of freedom are needing of maturity and intelligence. NOT that you need those things. Cus, we need target practice. To end those that are neither mature nor intelligent. (No, Im not for ending the lives of those that are mentally deficiant.. just those that are criminal in nature. Those that would harm you and yours, me and mine... be they the thug on the street, or the thug in office...)

Besides.

Dashing undesirables against rocks is welcome under ObamaCare, is it not? I mean, a governing agency controlling healthcare... deciding who should recieve aid... well, hell. Isn't that a form of "weeding" out those that don't make the cut.

Give me Sparta anyday. At least they only culled out the weak. Instead of growing them as a slave class to serve the politic.

As Libs/progs would do.

"Liberals and Progressives are just children getting older. They need harsh discipline at every oppurtunity. Not that Conservatives are much better." - WULF

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, June 29, 2010 12:47 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
The "good old boy" thing was showing the opposite end of the spectrum, not a snark directed at you. However long Dumbya spent in college, I seem to recall his grades stank, and did he finish? I forget. I seem to remember he flunked out SOMEWHERE, but that could be a false memory.

I agree with what you said; but your point, or at least the way you wrote it, was that because she's Ivy League, she'll vote with the Democrats. It's a common disparagement, "Ivy League", "elitist", etc. My point was initially that almost ALL of them are or have been Ivy League, and I think they've come up with some fairly good decisions (albeit perhaps later than the rest of the country came to the same conclusions...).

So I don't think it holds true either that because she has an Ivy League background she is destined to vote Dem, OR that having university-educated people on SCOTUS is necessarily a bad thing.

What alternative were you pointing to, if not the folksy type? Virtually every university turns out the same kind of thinking--well, barring anachronisms like Berserkeley anyway. Surely you wouldn't want someone on the Supremes who had no college education, or just a junior college education--oh, wait. Do they have to be at least lawyers? 'Cuz they couldn't get into law school without a university degree, right?

I'm just not sure what your alternative is, mostly. If you get no response, it's 'cuz I've been on here all DAY and it's getting hotter than hades. I gotta get off.




It's not a surprise to me that the majority of top candidates are Ivy Leaguers; the Ivy League has some of the top law schools in the nation. Is anyone really surprised that they turn out some of the top lawyers? That's like saying you need to fill a position for a physicist or a mathematician, but you're not willing to talk to any MIT grads, because too many of the top people come out of MIT, so they must all think alike.

Byte (and others): Don't hold going to a top school against someone. It's just gauche.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, June 29, 2010 12:50 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

No, Kwick, you clown. Just that the ideals of freedom are needing of maturity and intelligence. NOT that you need those things. Cus, we need target practice. To end those that are neither mature nor intelligent.



Spoken with your typical low levels of intelligence and maturity, child. [/sarcasm]

You will make great target practice for someone. Try that whole "serpentine" thing; I've heard it helps.



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, June 29, 2010 12:54 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
Kwicko: Oops, yeah, fourteenth amendment. mistype.




I kinda hoped that's what you meant.

If any Amendments could be done away with, it would be 18 & 21, if you ask me...

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, June 29, 2010 12:57 PM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


You mean this serpentine thing?

WAAAAAAAY ahead of you, clown.



"Liberals and Progressives are just children getting older. They need harsh discipline at every oppurtunity. Not that Conservatives are much better." - WULF

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, June 29, 2010 1:02 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

I agree with what you said; but your point, or at least the way you wrote it, was that because she's Ivy League, she'll vote with the Democrats. It's a common disparagement, "Ivy League", "elitist", etc. My point was initially that almost ALL of them are or have been Ivy League, and I think they've come up with some fairly good decisions (albeit perhaps later than the rest of the country came to the same conclusions...).


I distinctly said that's not my point.

Republicans and Democrats both have clubs at the schools in question: law students and other types commonly join one group or the other, and it creates a kind of group think in their educational and formative years.

More and more, supreme court judges don't really break out from the party line group think, and this is the reason I think is why that happens. Or maybe our public school system going down the crapper makes the new blood candidates more susceptible to the brainwashing. I assume the old money candidates have been brought up to think a certain way.

I would like people in the Supreme Court who AREN'T PARTISAN. IT WOULD BE REALLY NICE. Individuality, intelligence and/or wisdom and/or common sense would also be a plus.

I don't consider group think intelligence.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, June 29, 2010 1:12 PM

BYTEMITE


Kwicko: sorry, gotta hold the top schools accountable. My brother is going to Columbia Law. I have to say what I see.

To hell with gauche. I won't pussyfoot around what I think is an actual issue. I see group think in far too many of them, I see it developing little by little in my brother. So I accuse nominations of that background to the Supreme Court of being likely group-thinkers.

And I don't like it.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, June 29, 2010 1:31 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
You mean this serpentine thing?

WAAAAAAAY ahead of you, clown.



"Liberals and Progressives are just children getting older. They need harsh discipline at every oppurtunity. Not that Conservatives are much better." - WULF




Yeah, Wulfie... That's EXACTLY what I meant. As you said, it does make you a great target. [/snark]

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, June 30, 2010 1:31 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Byte, I agree with you on that last post. And I apologize; I missed where you said that wasn't your point.

While I don't necessarily think group thinkers are unintelligent, I do think they can be molded to represent only one WAY OF THINKING, if not one point of view. As to
Quote:

would like people in the Supreme Court who AREN'T PARTISAN. IT WOULD BE REALLY NICE. Individuality, intelligence and/or wisdom and/or common sense would also be a plus.
Gawd...what a dream that would be!


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

OTHER TOPICS

DISCUSSIONS
Elections; 2024
Fri, November 8, 2024 02:16 - 4631 posts
Kamala Harris for President
Fri, November 8, 2024 00:45 - 646 posts
The Thread of Court Cases Trump Is Winning
Fri, November 8, 2024 00:27 - 56 posts
ASSHOLE Diversity Hire Racist Joy Reid Attempts and Fails to Appropriate Meme Culture
Fri, November 8, 2024 00:23 - 24 posts
TDS
Fri, November 8, 2024 00:12 - 30 posts
In the garden, and RAIN!!! (2)
Thu, November 7, 2024 23:44 - 4684 posts
MAGA movement
Thu, November 7, 2024 21:06 - 4 posts
U.S. Senate Races 2024
Thu, November 7, 2024 20:52 - 12 posts
Who Is The Next Vice President?
Thu, November 7, 2024 20:48 - 27 posts
Elon Musk
Thu, November 7, 2024 19:34 - 34 posts
Trudeau and Wilson-Raybould: The scandal that could unseat Canada's PM
Thu, November 7, 2024 19:30 - 70 posts
They are "eating dogs" and "eating the cats" illegals ‘they’re eating the pets’ ?
Thu, November 7, 2024 19:23 - 59 posts

FFF.NET SOCIAL