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REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS
Hearings on "Domestic Muslim Terrorism"
Sunday, March 13, 2011 4:00 PM
NIKI2
Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...
Quote:A controversial congressional hearing Thursday on the radicalization of Muslim Americans touched on sensitive questions involving terrorism and tolerance a decade after the 9/11 attacks. At times emotional and theatrical, the four-hour session of the House Homeland Security Committee included calls from moderate Muslims for support in overcoming extremists seeking to indoctrinate their children, as well as protests from Democratic legislators who complained the hearing unfairly implicated all Muslims for the criminal acts of a small minority. In the end, committee Chairman Peter King, R-New York, said the hearing that generated widespread media coverage "actually went a lot easier than it could have." He blamed what he called the "mindless, baseless hysteria in the media" in preceding weeks for the controversy, and promised additional hearings in coming months, with the next perhaps focusing on the radicalization of Muslims in U.S. prisons. Despite strong criticism from Muslim Americans and accusations of a McCarthyist revival, King started the hearing by defending it as neither "radical or un-American." "To back down would be a craven surrender to political correctness and an abdication of what I believe to be the main responsibility of this committee to protect America from a terrorist attack," he said. Recruiting young American Muslims is part of al Qaeda's strategy to continue attacking the United States, said King, who called on Americans to reject the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), a prominent Muslim-American advocacy group in the United States. Witnesses stressed to the panel the need for more understanding of the issue, with a father describing how his son was radicalized by Islamic extremists, and a moderate Muslim activist advocating an American form of Islam that believes in "separation of mosque and state." At the same time, the only law enforcement official to testify, Sheriff Leroy Baca of Los Angeles County in California, seemed to sum up the overall approach needed by calling for increased understanding by Americans of their changing society. "The truth is that America is becoming a society of the world, and because of that we have to be sensitive, we have to know how to work with various communities," Baca said. "Americans need to wake up and start learning more about all the issues that affect their well-being. ... The real truth is that the American public must step up to the plate and do more, even if it's just educating yourself." Evidence of the deep public divide over the issue included a woman in the public gallery wearing a T-shirt that had "No Bigotry" written in large letters. Democrats on the panel sharply criticized King for focusing the hearing only on the Muslim-American community, with some expressing outrage and other making emotional pleas. Rep. Yvette Clarke of New York called the hearing "great theater" but lamented the lack of a definition for terrorism and radicalization. For example, she said, parents in her district tell of chidlren being recruited and brainwashed by local gangs. Rep. Keith Ellison, the first elected Muslim member of Congress, choked up in describing the sacrifices of Muslim Americans, among them Salman Hamdani, a 23-year-old paramedic and New York City police cadet who died trying to save others in the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. With Hamdani's mother in the room, Ellison teared up as he explained that people "falsely speculated (Hamdani) was with the attackers because he was Muslim." "His life should not be identified as just a member of an ethic group or just a member of a religion, but as an American who gave everything for his fellow Americans," the sobbing Ellison said. He acknowledged that some Muslims are responsible for violent acts, but said blaming the entire Muslim community for the evil of individuals is "the very heart of stereotyping and scapegoating." Muslim Americans called the planned series of hearings an unfair attack on loyal citizens and a dangerous break from the traditional U.S. embrace of tolerance and pluralism. Critics have accused Republican leaders of bigotry and compared the hearings to those held in the 1950s to explore Sen. Joseph McCarthy's allegations of Communist infiltration in the early years of the Cold War. Democratic Rep. John Dingell, the longest-serving congressman and the dean of the House, said he represented a Michigan community that included a sizable Muslim population. "They are almost, without exception, honorable, loyal citizens," Dingell said. "And as I've indicated, they are distressed as much as we are about the behavior of al Qaeda and other threats to their nation as we are to sharing their concerns about what is of danger to our nation." Dingell then told the committee that in all the years that he headed investigative committees, he kept a picture of McCarthy hanging on the wall -- "so that I would know what it was I did not want to look like, to do or to be." Republican offered their own theatrics, with Rep. Jeff Duncan of South Carolina expressing his own outrage over what he called the Obama administration's "failure to single out who our enemy is." Witnesses invited by King told stories of personal loss. Melvin Bledsoe, the father of an American youth who converted from Christianity to Islam at age 19 and later shot two U.S. army troops outside an Arkansas recruiting station, asked the committee for help. Bledsoe blamed Islamic extremists for radicalizing his son Carlos at mosques in Nashville, Tennessee. Carlos changed his name to Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad and was held responsible for the 2009 fatal attack on an Army Recruiting Center killing in Little Rock, Arkansas. To Baca, the sheriff, part of the problem stems from distrust between Muslim communities and local law enforcement in the wake of the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on the United States. He described successful outreach by his department to minority communities that have brought cooperation in criminal investigations, and called on Muslim parents to notify authorities at the first sign of irregular behavior that might signal radicalization of a child.
Quote:Walk into Rep. Peter King's Capitol Hill office, and you are overwhelmed with how much the New York Republican is consumed by the September 11, 2001, attacks. There are photos on the walls of funerals he attended, images of a smoky Brooklyn Bridge, and baseball caps with sayings including "USS New York, Never Forget." King says he doesn't have a monopoly on grief -- but it is what drives him. "If you ask me what I think about going to work every day, it's 9/11 and preventing another 9/11. There were too many people I knew," he told CNN in an interview in his office. That's why he says he is determined to use his powerful post as House Homeland Security Committee chairman to hold a highly controversial hearing on what he has dubbed radicalization of Muslims in the United States. The fact that he is singling out the Muslim-American community has ignited protests and anger against him, and accusations of bigotry. He has even been compared to Sen. Joseph McCarthy, who used a congressional gavel he wielded in the 1950s to go on a Communist witch hunt. King said there is "no basis" for that. "I tell people wait and watch and listen to the hearing and they will see it will be a thoughtful, meaningful, very fair hearing," he said. King, the son of a New York police academy instructor and a self-described close friend of New York cops and firefighters, insists he gets the real story from his buddies about what they call lack of cooperation in the Muslim community in rooting out radicalism. But other law enforcement officials say they get valuable assistance from Muslim-Americans. And academic studies, like one conducted by Duke University and the University of North Carolina, show fellow American Muslims turned in 48 of the 120 Muslims suspected of plotting terror attacks on the U.S. since 9/11. Still, King invited no law enforcement officials to be witnesses at his hearing -- neither the FBI director, nor the attorney general, nor any of the New York officials who he says tell him they're concerned. The only one attending is Los Angeles Sheriff Leroy Baca, because he was invited by Democrats on the panel. Standing in the empty committee room where his hearing will take place, King made clear he thinks inviting law enforcement officials would be a waste of time. "They work for civilian leaders, and the civilians say the cooperation is fine." Some call King's efforts against American Muslim terrorism hypocritical. In the 1980s, King, an Irish-American, was an active supporter of Gerry Adams and the Irish Republican Army, an organization the State Department then deemed terrorists, which was responsible for hundreds of civilian deaths in terror attacks. King defends his efforts. "I knew what was happening in Northern Ireland, and with the IRA. The IRA was a legitimate force, they'd been there for 40 years, 60 years, any way you want to look at it," said King. The New York Times editorialized Tuesday that King is a man "obsessed" with Muslim radicalism. Is he obsessed? "I'm very focused," he replied. "I lost many people from my (congressional) district on 9/11, and within a 30-mile radius of my home, probably about a thousand people murdered on 9/11." Another answer to that question may be in what King writes about. He is a part-time novelist, and in 2004 published a book called "Vale of Tears," about an Irish-American congressman from New York who traces a terrorist attack to Muslim radicals in his own district. "You write about what you know," shrugged King.
Quote:2010 there were more than twenty plots by non-Muslims compared to the ten Muslim Americans arrested for domestic plots; the report supports the argument that fears of domestic radicalization are exaggerated. The study, conducted by the Triangle Center on Terrorism and Homeland Security at Duke University, showed that last year twenty American Muslims had been arrested on charges of terrorism. Last year there were more than twenty plots by non-Muslims including Joseph Stack who crashed an airplane into an IRS building in Texas. Since 9/11 thirty-three people have been killed in the United States in terrorist attacks — or roughly three deaths per year. This compares to the approximately 150,000 murders committed in the United States since then. David Schanzer, director of the Triangle Center, said that the study, “puts into perspective the threat presented by domestic radicalization of Muslim Americans.”
Sunday, March 13, 2011 5:20 PM
FREMDFIRMA
Monday, March 14, 2011 9:31 AM
CANTTAKESKY
Monday, March 14, 2011 1:21 PM
KWICKO
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)
Monday, March 14, 2011 1:45 PM
KANEMAN
Monday, March 14, 2011 3:05 PM
RIONAEIRE
Beir bua agus beannacht
Monday, March 14, 2011 3:24 PM
Quote:Originally posted by RionaEire: I would love to hear from more moderate/"normal" Muslims who stand up and denounce terrorism and stand up for their "normal"/moderate Muslim friends and comrades. I think that would help everyone. "A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya
Monday, March 14, 2011 3:49 PM
Quote:Originally posted by RionaEire: I would love to hear from more moderate/"normal" Muslims who stand up and denounce terrorism and stand up for their "normal"/moderate Muslim friends and comrades. I think that would help everyone.
Quote: A Poem About September 11 By Rooshna Kidwai Tragedy struck the country on the 11th of September Terror grasped our hearts on a day that all will remember Shock combined with anger, pain combined with fear As we intently watched the news and brushed away the tears Planes explode into buildings, causing them to collapse Maybe a scene from a movie, or just a nightmare, perhaps? But that’s just wishful thinking, we knew it was very real Because the families of the victims wait for the pain to heal The question continued to echo, only the answer did we lack Who were the monsters who committed this deadly terrorist attack? Now we know their identities: Muslims by their names And because of these cowards, all Muslims were defamed This isn’t what Islam teaches; I’m a Muslim so I should know What the terrorists did was wrong, and Hell is where they will go Us Muslims did nothing wrong, but still you persist to despise A group of innocent people, who now fear to step outside We won’t ask you to forgive us for something we didn’t do But please respect us like your own, because we are just like you Let’s hold our hands with peace, and let’s join our hearts with love Pray for the victims who died in the blue sky up above Too high above for us to know how these people felt The victims in the buildings and the horror with which they dealt Imagine the pain of their families, who lie at home in wait For someone to come inform them of their beloved’s fate We called it the United States, but it wasn’t until now That we were a country united under a single vow Dear God, Together we stand and together we pray For all who lost their lives on that sorrowful day And protect all the Muslims from anyone who expresses malice And doesn’t know the difference between a Muslim and a terrorist GOD BLESS AMERICA
Monday, March 14, 2011 9:02 PM
Tuesday, March 15, 2011 4:07 AM
AURAPTOR
America loves a winner!
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: If the IRA had perped 9/11, King would be hailing them as heroes. His beef isn't with "terrorism" at all - it's with Muslims.
Tuesday, March 15, 2011 5:55 AM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: there are 'some' Muslims who commit violence ... this group ...
Tuesday, March 15, 2011 6:26 AM
Tuesday, March 15, 2011 12:02 PM
Quote: I would love to hear from more moderate/"normal" Muslims who stand up and denounce terrorism and stand up for their "normal"/moderate Muslim friends and comrades.
Quote: to ignore the fact that there are 'some' Muslims who commit violence - IN THE NAME OF THEIR GOD, and that this group isn't a threat... is an act of pure self delusion.
Quote:Army of God (AOG) is a Christian terrorist anti-abortion organization that sanctions the use of force to combat abortion in the United States. --In 1982, three men associated with the organization held Hector Zevallos, an abortion doctor, and his wife, Rosalee Jean, hostage. The "East Coast division" of the AOG claimed responsibility when three men, including Michael Bray, planted bombs at seven abortion clinics in Maryland, Virginia, and Washington D.C. in 1985. --The AOG claimed responsibility for Eric Robert Rudolph's 1997 shrapnel bombing of abortion clinics in Atlanta and Birmingham as well as an Atlanta lesbian bar. --Clayton Waagner, claiming to act on the part of the "Virginia Dare Chapter" of the AOG, mailed over 500 letters containing white powder to 280 abortion providers in 2001. The letters claimed that the powder was anthrax; though it was not identified as such, the tactic took advantage of the public's fear of biological warfare after the recent real anthrax attacks. --The group is also associated with a number of assassinations of abortion providers. Some of these assassins, such as Shelley Shannon, claimed association with the AOG.
Quote:Paul Hill, executed for the shotgun slayings of an abortion doctor and his bodyguard in Pensacola, says he's at peace with himself and would probably kill again. Hill, a one-time Presbyterian minister, has said God led him to shoot Dr. John Britton, 69, and his driver, James Barrett, 74, as they arrived at a Pensacola abortion clinic in July 1994. ''If I were put in similar circumstances, I believe I would act similarly,'' Hill said in a letter to The Herald from his Florida State Prison cell. “You will not be afraid of the terror by night, or of the arrow that flies by day.” Hill interpreted this as an affirmation that his act was biblically approved. The above psalm is said to be the one that made him believe he was doing a good thing. He said that he regarded “the cutting edge of Satan’s current attack” to be “the abortionist’s knife,” and therefore his actions had ultimate theological significance.
Quote:A South Carolina library system has closed down its summer programs for young adults after receiving threats and allegations that it was trying to promote "witchcraft" and "drug use." The programs were cancelled in the wake of phone and e-mail threats from the community, believed to emanate from a single local Baptist church. The astrology program was labeled as "witchcraft" by callers, while the Zen garden and yoga programs were objected to as "promoting other religions." The t-shirts workshop? "Promotes the hippie culture and drug use," callers said. "If you have an anonymous call of a bomb, what do you do?" asks Library Director Marguerite Keenan, explaining her decision to cancel the YA programs. "You clear the building, you close the building for the protection of the children. And that’s hugely sad."
Quote:Hutaree, a militia movement group adhering to the Christian Patriot movement, based in Adrian, Michigan, in the United States. From March 28 to March 30, 2010, nine of its members were arrested in police raids in Michigan, Ohio, and Indiana (in Hammond), for their alleged involvement in a plot to kill various police officers and possibly civilians using illegal explosives and/or firearms. The group was allegedly preparing for what they believed would be an apocalyptic battle with the forces of the Antichrist, who they believed would be supported and defended by local, state and federal police departments.
Quote:James Kopp, who murdered physician Barnett Slepian in 1998 was a member of The Lambs of Christ, also known as Victim Souls of the Unborn Christ-Child, an extremist anti-abortion organization in the United States. It was founded in 1988 by Norman Weslin. It is sometimes termed a Christian terrorist organization. Members of the group have been linked to several incidents of violence.
Quote: Timothy McVeigh who, along with his accomplice Terry Nichols, carried out the Oklahoma City bombing on April 19, 1995, has admitted to a belief in Christian Patriotism and involvement in Christian Patriot activities. The Christian Patriot movement actively incorporates Christian scripture and biblical liturgy to justify and support violent activities The movement grew during the 1990s after the Ruby Ridge incident and the Waco Siege. The movement maintained ties with the militia movement of the same period. A highly publicized federal confrontation with Christian Patriots occurred in 1996, when Federal marshals arrested the Montana Freemen.
Tuesday, March 15, 2011 12:23 PM
Quote:FBI statistics indicate that most acts of domestic terrorism are not committed by Muslim or Arab groups. Indeed, from 1984 to 1998, 95 percent of the terrorist incidents in the United States were attributed to domestic groups. In the three years after the Oklahoma City bombing, 1996 to 1998, almost 70 percent of all potential terrorist events were attributed to domestic sources, and the figure climbs to 96 percent if we discount one series of intercepted letter bombs in 1997. More specifically, in 1993, for example, there were two bombings by an extreme right-wing group in Tacoma, Washington, and nine fire bombings by an animal rights group, the Animal Liberation Front, in Chicago, Illinois. In 1994, there were no incidents of terrorism at all. Indeed, when AEDPA was passed in 1996, the looming threat was extreme right-wing domestic groups, particularly militias.
Quote:Jared Lee Loughner Animal Liberation Front (ALF) The group is listed by the U.S. Department of Homeland Security as a domestic terrorist organization. Aryan Nations (AN) is a white nationalist neo-Nazi organization founded in the 1970s by Richard Girnt Butler as an arm of the Christian Identity group known as the Church of Jesus Christ-Christian. The Aryan Nations has been called a "terrorist threat" by the FBI,[5] and the RAND Corporation has called it the "first truly nationwide terrorist network" in the USA. Black Liberation Party, a splinter group made up of the more radical members of the Black Panther Party, the Black Liberation Army (BLA) sought to overthrow the US government in the name of racial separatism and Marxist ideals. The Fraternal Order of Police blames the BLA for the murders of 13 police officers. According to a Justice Department report on BLA activity, the group was suspected of involvement in over 60 incidents of violence between 1970 and 1980. The Earth Liberation Front has been classified as the top "domestic terror" threat in the United States by the Federal Bureau of Investigation since March 2001. JDL: The Jewish Defense League: FBI statistics show that, from 1980 to 1985, 15 terrorist attacks were attempted in the U.S. by JDL members. KKK: From reconstruction at the end of the civil war to the end of the civil rights movement, the Ku Klux Klan (KKK) used threats, violence, arson, and murder to further its white-supremacist, anti-Communist, anti-semitic and anti-Catholic agenda. Domestic terrorists with agendas similar to the KKK include neo-Nazis and white power skinheads. The May 19 Coalition (also variously referred to as the May 19 Communist Coalition, May 19 Communist Organization, and various alternatives of M19CO), was a US-based, self-described revolutionary organization formed by members of the Weather Underground Organization. The role of the mass movement (i.e., above ground Prairie Fire Collective) would include support for, and encouragement of, armed action. The Order, also known as the Brüder Schweigen or Silent Brotherhood, was an organization active in the United States between 1983 and 1984. The Order, a white nationalist revolutionary group, is probably best known for the 1984 murder of radio talk show host Alan Berg. The Phineas Priesthood (Phineas Priests) is a Christian Identity movement that opposes interracial intercourse, the mixing of races, homosexuality, and abortion. Members of the Priesthood are often called terrorists for, among other things, planning to blow up FBI buildings, abortion clinic bombings, and bank robberies. The Symbionese Liberation Army (SLA) was an American self-styled, far left "urban guerrilla warfare group" that considered itself a revolutionary vanguard army. The group committed bank robberies, two murders, and other acts of violence between 1973 and 1975. Among their most notorious acts was the kidnapping and the brainwashing of the newspaper heiress Patty Hearst. The United Freedom Front (UFF) was a small American Marxist organization active in the 1970s and 1980s. the UFF carried out at least 20 bombings and nine bank robberies in the northeastern United States, targeting corporate buildings, courthouses, and military facilities. The group's members were eventually apprehended and convicted of conspiracy, murder, attempted murder, and other charges.
Tuesday, March 15, 2011 12:39 PM
Tuesday, March 15, 2011 1:11 PM
Quote:By even totally ignoring the violent murderous acts committed by domestic non-Muslim terrorists in order to pretend I'm equatiung the closing down of a summer library program or "1 or two" anti aborto zealots to the world wide Islamic jihadists, you're twisting the problem.
Tuesday, March 15, 2011 1:19 PM
Tuesday, March 15, 2011 1:30 PM
BYTEMITE
Quote:Salt Lake City shooter of 5 is an immigrant - Muslim
Tuesday, March 15, 2011 2:02 PM
THEHAPPYTRADER
Tuesday, March 15, 2011 3:10 PM
Tuesday, March 15, 2011 3:22 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Bytemite: Quote:Salt Lake City shooter of 5 is an immigrant - Muslim Sorry AURaptor. You shouldn't make assumptions about all immigrants like that.
Quote: Getting basic facts wrong, even if they're obscure, makes it look like you might be wrong on other stuff too. Vet your information.
Quote: My Muslim friend denounces jihad, especially considering jihadists and Saddam Hussein chased her family out of Iraq. So there's at least one for you. She's a real sweet girl, very into anime if you can believe it. When she heard about the U.S. planning to go to war in Iraq, she recruited a bunch of us to make origami cranes, so that she could wish for her family's safety.
Tuesday, March 15, 2011 3:50 PM
Tuesday, March 15, 2011 6:21 PM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: I never said EVERY immigrant, EVERY muslim, or ANY GOD DAMN THING REMOTELY TO THAT EFFECT!
Quote: D.C. Snipers - Muslims Ft Hood shooter - Muslim Shoe Bomber - Muslim El Al Airline shooter at LAX - Muslim TImes Square Bomber - Muslim Seattle shooter at Jewish school - Muslim Denver shooter of 4 co-workers and a police officer - Muslim Salt Lake City shooter of 5 is an immigrant - Muslim
Quote:D.C. Snipers - extremist psycho violent Muslims Ft Hood shooter - extremist psycho violent Muslim Shoe Bomber - extremist psycho violent Muslim El Al Airline shooter at LAX - extremist psycho violent Muslim TImes Square Bomber - extremist psycho violent Muslim Seattle shooter at Jewish school - extremist psycho violent Muslim Denver shooter of 4 co-workers and a police officer - extremist psycho violent Muslim Salt Lake City shooter of 5 is an immigrant - extremist psycho violent Muslim
Wednesday, March 16, 2011 3:50 AM
Quote:Originally posted by canttakesky:But you didn't specify a subset of Muslim either. You listed a bunch of "Muslims," and then justified seeing "this group" as a threat. Here's your list: Quote: D.C. Snipers - Muslims Ft Hood shooter - Muslim Shoe Bomber - Muslim El Al Airline shooter at LAX - Muslim TImes Square Bomber - Muslim Seattle shooter at Jewish school - Muslim Denver shooter of 4 co-workers and a police officer - Muslim Salt Lake City shooter of 5 is an immigrant - Muslim How are we supposed to know "this group" you see as a threat is a specific subset of Muslim, if you don't say otherwise? All we see is your trying to justify seeing "Muslims" as a threat. And we protest that overgeneralization. Now if you had said, Quote:D.C. Snipers - extremist psycho violent Muslims Ft Hood shooter - extremist psycho violent Muslim Shoe Bomber - extremist psycho violent Muslim El Al Airline shooter at LAX - extremist psycho violent Muslim TImes Square Bomber - extremist psycho violent Muslim Seattle shooter at Jewish school - extremist psycho violent Muslim Denver shooter of 4 co-workers and a police officer - extremist psycho violent Muslim Salt Lake City shooter of 5 is an immigrant - extremist psycho violent Muslim and that we need to watch out for extremist psycho violent Muslims, then no one would be arguing with you. If you had shown you understood these extremist psycho violent Muslims do not represent the other 1.6 billion human beings of the Islam faith, then we might be able to agree to focus on the "extremist psycho violent" part and leave the many innocent Muslims alone.
Wednesday, March 16, 2011 5:49 AM
JONGSSTRAW
Wednesday, March 16, 2011 6:10 AM
Wednesday, March 16, 2011 6:18 AM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Because I already once specifically described who I meant, those who do such acts in the name of Allah, not ALL Muslims.
Wednesday, March 16, 2011 6:22 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Jongsstraw: I don't like these hearings at all. This is a big waste of taxpayer money, and a waste of time for the Govt. We have far more serious problems than having hearings because of a few Muslim murderers in America. I think King and his ilk have fallen victim to propaganda that claims that 75% of American mosques are teaching their followers radical jihad. Common sense tells us that if that were even remotely true, we'd be having Muslim terror incidents every day. We don't. Case close. King is misguided here.
Wednesday, March 16, 2011 6:43 AM
Quote:Originally posted by canttakesky: Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Because I already once specifically described who I meant, those who do such acts in the name of Allah, not ALL Muslims. Then leave MUSLIM out of it.
Quote: Focus on "extremist psycho violence" which comes in all colors and religions.
Quote:It is like saying, I hate "extremist psycho violent 2 legged people." Adding the descriptor "2 legged" is 1) irrelevant because what you really hate is the extremist psycho violence, not the fact that they have 2 legs; and 2) prejudicial because it associates extremist psycho violence with having 2 legs.
Quote: Let's take it a step closer to home. Let's say some leftwinger posts a list like yours, but beside each name, instead of Muslim, they write "Republican." The fact that some of these psychos are Republican is irrelevant. There are millions of Republicans who don't go psycho violent on people. The only reason to point out they are Republican is to denigrate Republicans in general.
Quote:So pointing out they are Muslim is both irrelevant and prejudicial. It is simply an old trick to to denigrate a certain ideology by associating it with violence.
Quote: Pointing out that those people are extremist psycho violent freaks is sufficient to address the threat.
Wednesday, March 16, 2011 7:02 AM
Wednesday, March 16, 2011 7:10 AM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: There's no propaganda which states " 75% of American mosques are teaching ... radical jihad ".
Wednesday, March 16, 2011 7:33 AM
Quote:... former counter terrorism agents from the FBI, CIA and U.S. military to conduct undercover reconnaissance at some 2,300 mosques and Islamic centers and schools across the United States. So far a little more than 100 mosques have been surveyed and around 75% of those are preaching anti-western hatred, insurrection and jihad through sermons by Saudi-trained imams and anti-Western literature, videos and textbooks.
Wednesday, March 16, 2011 7:41 AM
Quote:"I would say, you could say that 80-85 percent of mosques in this country are controlled by Islamic fundamentalists," he said. "Those who are in control. The average Muslim, no, they are loyal, but they don't work, they don't come forward, they don't tell the police … ."
Quote:Naqshbandi Sufi leader Sheikh Muhammad Hisham Kabbani declared in a State Department Open Forum that Islamic supremacists controlled most mosques in America: “The most dangerous thing that is going on now in these mosques,” he said, “that has been sent upon these mosques around the United States – like churches they were established by different organizations and that is ok – but the problem with our communities is the extremist ideology. Because they are very active they took over the mosques; and we can say that they took over more than 80% of the mosques that have been established in the US. And there are more than 3000 mosques in the US. So it means that the methodology or ideology of extremist has been spread to 80% of the Muslim population. Terrorism expert Yehudit Barsky affirmed the same thing in 2005, saying that 80% of the mosques in this country “have been radicalized by Saudi money and influence.”
Quote:HOST: Congressman, how widespread do you think this radical jihad sentiment is in US mosques? How many mosques do you think are infected? KING: The only real testimony we have on it is from Sheikh Kabbani who was a Muslim leader during the Clinton Administration, he testified back in 1999 and 2000 before the State Department that he thought over 80 percent of the mosques in this country are controlled by radical Imams. Certainly from what I’ve seen and dealings I’ve had, that number seems accurate.
Quote: King has often repeated the dubious statistic that "80% of mosques are radicalized" to justify his single-minded focus on Muslim Americans. But this statistic, while often quoted by conservatives, has no empirical basis. It was thrown out glibly by a single person, Shaykh Muhammad Hisham Kabbani, who based the more than decade-old claim not on scholarly research but on his own, anecdotal evidence.
Quote:Because they ARE Muslims, and to deny that would be folly. I refuse to play stupid to placate the PC nazis”, again, nobody is denying that there is domestic Muslim terrorism; please back that up...only you can’t. As to “shoddy reporting”, you didn’t post a link to that quote, so we can’t see it for ourselves to verify it’s accuracy OR the content. It states “100 mosques”—which is a tiny percentage of mosques in this country, what mosques were investigated, when that was written, we can’t know. That you are stuck on the issue and need to keep saying people are "ignoring" and "denying" it pretty much says it all. Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani, Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”, signing off
Wednesday, March 16, 2011 7:48 AM
Wednesday, March 16, 2011 8:58 AM
STORYMARK
Wednesday, March 16, 2011 9:18 AM
Wednesday, March 16, 2011 9:24 AM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Yeah, Niki, it does say it all, as you ARE ignoring and denying the issue. And I find it funny that you keep posting things from pre 9/11 when defending the religion of 'peace'.
Wednesday, March 16, 2011 10:21 AM
Wednesday, March 16, 2011 10:29 AM
Wednesday, March 16, 2011 10:33 AM
Quote:you ARE ignoring and denying the issue.
Wednesday, March 16, 2011 10:36 AM
Wednesday, March 16, 2011 10:42 AM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: I'd call it shoddy reporting of the facts... Quote:... former counter terrorism agents from the FBI, CIA and U.S. military to conduct undercover reconnaissance at some 2,300 mosques and Islamic centers and schools across the United States. So far a little more than 100 mosques have been surveyed and around 75% of those are preaching anti-western hatred, insurrection and jihad through sermons by Saudi-trained imams and anti-Western literature, videos and textbooks. So, out of a sample of some 2,300 mosques, a unofficial comment after just 100 surveyed says that " around 75% " are what... teaching pro Islamic ideas ? Or are they teaching that it's fine to blow up school buses and wedding receptions ? Big difference there. If you're going to post Pirate News as 'propaganda' too, then ya got me. Paint me guilty on missing this one.
Wednesday, March 16, 2011 10:58 AM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: No. Because they ARE Muslims, and to deny that would be folly.
Wednesday, March 16, 2011 11:03 AM
Wednesday, March 16, 2011 11:11 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: Ahhh, what a shame. As I predicted, Kane hasn't left as he said. You lose, Kane: This is about "Domestic Muslim Terrorism". Nobody is talking about what's happening in the rest of the world, and Story is right; a lot of that is Muslim on Muslism, MORE of it is from other groups than Muslims, and it's not about DOMESTIC terrorism. Try again, you defeat your own point by posting irrelevant material about global terrorism when the discussion isn't ABOUT that. Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani, Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”, signing off
Wednesday, March 16, 2011 11:13 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Bytemite: Nah, I did by number of events. Sectarian or Muslim-on-Muslim violence is still terrorism, but it's not the kind of terrorism we're seeing domestically. There's also a bunch of entries in there along the lines of "dumbass kills mother/ father/ sister / wife / children" which are probably not so much terrorism as they are dumbassery.
Wednesday, March 16, 2011 11:20 AM
Quote:Originally posted by kaneman: Didn't watch the video AUrapt put up did you?
Quote:Al - Quran 5:32 "…if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people.”
Quote:He goes through all the trouble to make his case with examples ...
Wednesday, March 16, 2011 11:44 AM
Quote:Originally posted by canttakesky: Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: No. Because they ARE Muslims, and to deny that would be folly. On one hand, you say you realize this violence does not generalize to all Muslims. On the other hand, you insist on generalizing this violence to the ideology of all Muslims.
Quote: The fact that you and Kane are arguing openly in America to witchhunt the faith of 1.6 billion people saddens me immensely.
Quote: My only comfort is that so far, only you and Kane are arguing for it, and that there are others here against such propaganda.
Wednesday, March 16, 2011 12:33 PM
Quote: King is grandstanding
Quote: You can make a similar list with the label "Christian" or "Jew." A list doesn't prove the ideology turns people into terrorists, anymore than being born American turns you into a brown-people-bombing soldier.
Quote: Terrorists come in ALL colors and religions. The root of terrorism is more complex than any single ideology. It involves desperation and hopelessness and economic and political powerlessness. It involves understanding history and the many tentacles of imperialism and meddling and victimizing and exploiting. It is so much easier to just blame it on one ideology. Pity the easy way is not the accurate way. Pity the easy way would only make things worse.
Wednesday, March 16, 2011 1:10 PM
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