Tennessee Senate Committee passes Ignorance Bill by AnthonyT

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Tennessee Senate Committee passes Ignorance Bill

POSTED BY: ANTHONYT
UPDATED: Friday, April 29, 2011 08:12
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 1487
PAGE 1 of 1

Tuesday, April 26, 2011 3:22 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I recently learned that a Senate Committee in Tennessee has passed a bill requiring that a piece of knowledge be removed from elementary and middle schools. Specifically, homosexuality shall not be discussed. Now, only High School students will have knowledge of homosexuality (or so the bill authors would like to believe.)

What does this mean to children who begin to experience curiosity sooner than High School? And what of children who are teased because of their preferences?

It would seem that the schools would not be cleared to address any questions or concerns on this matter.

More importantly, because no such prohibition exists against heterosexual instruction, it reinforces the idea that homosexuality is bizarre and taboo, while heterosexuality is normal and accepted.

I hope this bill fails to be implemented.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, April 26, 2011 4:01 PM

BYTEMITE

Yep. Emphasis on "reinforces." As someone who isn't exactly heteronormal, I was pretty aware as a kid of how biased society is towards teaching certain gender roles.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, April 26, 2011 4:08 PM

DREAMTROVE

I oppose the public education system. Anything it teaches it is commandeering the role of parenting. The best possible solution is that the entire system be abolished without reservation. Short of that, I favor its removal as sexual guidance here, since it's a eugenicist institution anyway.

ETA: Exception for Happy's music. That's something that a lot of parents don't have to teach, that said, I wouldn't save the public education system from extinction for anything really.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, April 26, 2011 4:55 PM

BYTEMITE

Agreed on schools to an extent, though there does seem to be some importance in community based support for parents, especially in regards to kids with special needs. Maybe a different education system under a different socio-economic system would work better and be less offensive.

But there's some things that even parenting can't change.

SSRIs are to blame for my condition, but they wouldn't have had nearly as much effect if I wasn't already predisposed by my nature.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, April 26, 2011 4:59 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Oh dear, don't even get me started...

One of the *ISSUES* I had to handle today involved a conversation that went like this...

Quote:
"It only takes once ?
Hell yes it only takes once you idiots!
But I heard..."

Fifteen and sixteen and NO goddamn knowledge beyond "This is sex, it's bad, don't do it" - from official sources, leaving them wide open to the damn fool stupidity of misinformation, ignorance and assumption.

And at that point it wasn't THEM who got verbally excoriated, it was their parents, by me, in a fashion that damn near had me tossed in the paddy wagon over it, cause you deliberately and maliciously keep folks ignorant and then BLAME them for mistakes caused by that ignorance ?
Oh hell fucking no, that is YOUR FAULT, period - and I WILL hold you accountable, and I don't give a fuck about your pathetic excuses.

Which now has placed me in the unenviable and very uncomfortable position of being asked to have that conversation with several kids unrelated to me whom I barely know, because their semi-clueless parents don't have the guts (word got around fast, it did, in this one!), and annoys the piss outta me cause said conversation may in some cases be technically illegal.
Yeah, you heard me - can fall under encouraging/contributing/deliquency, or regarding some of the content aiding and abetting a felony, yadda fuckin yadda, for example explaining oral sex in a state with laws against sodomy, and so on and so forth.

Because our fucked up society is still poisoned through and through by the insane asshat ideas of RELIGIOUS puritan assholes who seem to think life itself is some kind of curse and should be as miserable as possible, denying their own humanity till it becomes so fucking twisted it's not even recognizable as such.(1)

-Frem
(1) Case in point, some nimrod was arrested locally today for chasing, and crushing, several ducklings in the parking lot of a McDonalds, with his Hummer H2, cause he thought that shit was FUNNY - and you wonder where these pyschos come from...

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, April 27, 2011 12:31 AM

THEHAPPYTRADER

Wouldn't it be cool if the public schools could focus on teaching rather than parenting? I think that would be awesome. Unfortunately, the schools are better at both than many a parent and as a result are stuck with the job.

Of course, this is as much (or more so) a failure of parents as a 'success' of the school system. And since the schools are raising your children anyway, now the gubmit feels the need to write legislation concerning how the school will raise the State's children.

There's nothing wrong with getting help from the schools, many parents are busy and too often single. What worries me is those that depend on them too much.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, April 27, 2011 9:36 AM

DREAMTROVE

It's hard to ignore the reality that of the many, many, gay men I have known, overwhelmingly (at least 80%) of them began their life as gays when they were abused as a child by an older boy or man.

This is something I would want to shield my children from.

I've spent some time analyzing this, and my best guess is this: From puberty forward, boys are sexually excited, but have no idea how to get a girl interested in them. So, an older man comes along and introduces them to an easier alternative. Generally, when they recall this, about half of them liked the experience, and half of them didn't, but they all learned that this was an easy way to get what they wanted. To generalize my personal recollections of gays I've known, the ones who liked the experience of being molested went on later to have long term relationships with other older men, not the ones who had abused them when they were younger. Those that didn't like the experience went after younger boys, and put themselves in the role of the older men.

Now, sure, I've known a fair number of gay men who had no such experiences, but I thought that this could not be discounted.

To wit, here's exactly what will happen if you introduce boys to it in school: Older boys, bullies, who have some homosexual tendencies, and no girlfriends, to the idea that homosexuality is an acceptable lifestyle for a boy, and you accept this behavior in your school, those boys will then go and start abusing the younger boys.

I can virtually guarantee it. If this is jake with you, remind me not to send my kids to your school.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, April 27, 2011 9:38 AM

DREAMTROVE

Quote:
Originally posted by TheHappyTrader:

Wouldn't it be cool if the public schools could focus on teaching rather than parenting?

Happy, well said.

Unfortunately:

Quote:
Unfortunately, the schools are better at both than many a parent and as a result are stuck with the job.

Nonsense. Yes, lots of parents suck, but schools are like having 14 parents at once, all of whom are devotees or James Dobson.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, April 27, 2011 9:44 AM

THEHAPPYTRADER

Quote:
Nonsense. Yes, lots of parents suck, but schools are like having 14 parents at once

14 parents per every 280 or so children. The kids ain't exactly outnumbered.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, April 27, 2011 9:54 AM

BYTEMITE

Are you sure that's not just a product of the region you lived in? My experience has been there's a difference between regular homosexuality, and situational homosexuality (though I'll agree that situational homosexuality seems to be more common). Guys I've met who were gay were attracted to guys their own age, and they told me that they knew they were different long before puberty.

Hell, and people didn't know what the heck I was. Sometimes people are different, and you can just tell, you know?

I don't think mainstream acceptance of homosexuality will have every boy being molested and turning gay. Even the ancient Greeks and Romans still had some heterosexual guys around.

Although, if rampant gay rape becomes a common bullying tactic in school, we can officially say that school has completed it's ultimate transformation into prison, and not feel bad at all about razing the horrible cesspool that the education system will have become to the ground. Not that it isn't a cesspool now, just saying.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, April 27, 2011 10:13 AM

THEHAPPYTRADER

Also, every guy who's not on the football team is a 'faggot,' specially if they are one of those artsy or band types. I was always dressed nice(er) because I was colorblind and didn't know how to match my clothes unless it was a polo shirt/pants combo I had memorized, so needless to say middle school was fun.

I had a friend in high school who was gay, so of course he got picked on, but he would roll with the verbal blows and be as flamingly gay as possible in response. Eventually no one bugged him about it because he'd go all out and make them feel uncomfortable.

While I don't buy DT's theory on homosexuality being anywhere near the norm, this friend of mine went to the same college as I and was dating (do they call it dating?) older men, usually 10 years or more older. Never asked him why or when he knew he was gay.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, April 27, 2011 10:27 AM

BYTEMITE

Ugh. I've heard stories of these backwards places where the jocks bully the guy geeks/artists.

If I had been male, as opposed to the insane tomboy I was (was?), I probably might have stories of my own to tell. You have my sympathies.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, April 27, 2011 10:46 AM

THEHAPPYTRADER

Eh, I turned out alright, and college was kind of like revenge. I won't go into details, but I can confidently say I've out done them without being a douche... mostly. There are a few exploits that could qualify as 'manly bragging rights' but I feel more ashamed than proud... mostly.

Anyway, I did take some guilty pleasure in watching some big fish from the small pond struggle in the new college setting while I did fairly well for myself. I also got into sports in college, not on a university team, just fraternity stuff, intramural like. In an ironic twist, I actually played as our quarterback for a play or few, but only because I was fast and could throw really far. Outside of that, I really wasn't very good. Never did get the hang of catching the damn thing.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, April 27, 2011 12:34 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Oh, kids learn that stuff on the farm. No need to fill their little heads with a bunch of Hollyqueer nonsense.

Seriously, elementary ? With our education system as it is these days ? Please...

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, April 28, 2011 6:09 AM

FREMDFIRMA

To follow up here - part of the reason the parents called the cops was that I was very, VERY angry, and delivered a dressing down that woulda made R. Lee Ermey stand up and SALUTE, believe it, not just regarding that deliberately contrived ignorance by failing abysmally in the duties of a parent, but also for how like so many parents they cripple their children by withholding or preventing the development of needful life-skills before pitching them out the door all but helpless to flounder and fail to thrive, then blaming THEM for the lack.

My own sister deserves a couple lumps on the noggin for that, since after I taught her eldest to drive and a few other life skills, the eldest fled the nest on her eighteenth birthday, she then forbade me to teach the middle kid to drive, or even pay a local school to do so, as well as forbidding her to have a job or her own finances, etc etc...

So yeah, those parents got the earful of their LIVES, and I was all but merciless about it, bloody well fucking right!
There's NO EXCUSE for intentionally fucking up your parental responsibilities in every way and then casting the blame and consequences upon the child you screwed over, NONE.

Said kids have filed for emancipation by virtue of parental incompetence - the court will reject this, but this is a for-the-record, paper-trail kind of thing, since a parent who wants to prevent them from breaking the chains can engage in all kinds of shenanigans including having their drivers license suspended or seizing their paychecks since the child is technically property rather than people, and so in the case of a situation likely to turn ugly the only recourse a teen generally has, legally, is to get in first and hard, knock em down and KEEP KICKING, while running out the clock till it hits the magic number.

And of course, during this fiasco it didn't help getting a dose of typical Republican malice either...
http://michiganmessenger.com/48487/foster-children-would-be-allowed-to
-get-clothing-only-from-second-hand-stores
As if the goddamn Foster care system (currently under, and ignoring, multiple consent decrees) around here wasn't abusive enough already.

See, here's the thing to remember when you mistreat children.
Someday, they grow up.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, April 28, 2011 12:15 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
It's hard to ignore the reality that of the many, many, gay men I have known, overwhelmingly (at least 80%) of them began their life as gays when they were abused as a child by an older boy or man.

Jezus. I have always lived in the Bay Area; known and joked about as one of the largest bastions of gays, right? Well, I’ve only known a few gay man who began their lives as gays because they were abused as a child. So I’m not touching that one except to say “I disagree”. Then, too, I’m bisexual, and I wasn’t molested, so what “caused” us?

My gawd, you’re close minded!

Quote:
here's exactly what will happen if you introduce boys to it in school: Older boys, bullies, who have some homosexual tendencies, and no girlfriends, to the idea that homosexuality is an acceptable lifestyle for a boy, and you accept this behavior in your school, those boys will then go and start abusing the younger boys.

That’s entirely YOUR OPINION...it’s not what happens around here, and you have NO proof it’s “exactly what will happen” anywhere!

I think schools are “stuck with the job” because nowadays many parents both work, many parents don’t give a shit, and many only have one parent, working one or two jobs just to survive. I don’t think teachers (because it’s not “schools”, it’s individual teachers) do a better job, I just think they have the kids’ attention more. And most of the time THEY’RE just trying to keep order these days, given class sizes are getting larger and larger.

Quote:
14 parents at once, all of whom are devotees or James Dobson

I’m not touching that. Some of your beliefs...

I think kids are more sophisticated these days than ever, and to keep them in the dark about things like sexuality and homosexuality is stupid. I learned about sexuality from my best friend, in junior high school. If kids aren't educated about homosexuality, there's FAR more chance of them bullying those who are homosexuality (which they do to a huge extent now) than there is that they'll all turn homo because of being educated about it.

I think the law is stupid..and, as you said, Anthony, ignorant (tho' I'm guessing you meant it as a double entendre).

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, April 28, 2011 7:30 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

I would like to see some good stats on what percentage of adults who identify as gay were hurt as kids. Obviously it wouldn't be all of them, sometimes things just come out off kilter in one's body, its easy for hardwiring to get a little off its kilter. But society today wouldn't be willing to actually study this, it would be considered to be mean or intollerant or something, so I guess I'll never know. Frown.

As for being taught about homosexual sex in middle school I think that wouldn't be apropriate. In my sex ed classes, back in the late 90s and early 00s our teachers didn't tell us that stuff, I didn't understand the mechanics of it until I was about 15 or 16. Of course I understood the male and female type of sex. But I didn't know how one would go about it with ... anyways I'm really glad I didn't find out until I was older, I didn't need to know that in middle school.

I think that its school's job to teach kids about anatomy, the parts of the body, as well as the changes that go on in puberty, STDs, the importance of controception if one doesn't want to have a baby, where to go if one has more questions or needs help etc. I think its a parent's job to teach kids what they expect, how the family believes about when its right to rut etc. I learnt most things about sex from my parents explaining it to me, mainly it was my dad who had to tell me about it, my mom is a prude. The things I learnt at school are the things above that I think school should teach. My dad and I have always talked very openly about sex, I always knew what my parents expected of me in regards to my choices/activities in that arena. My dad especially was always very clear and frank about it and would answer any questions I had as I grew up. I think that parents need to be approachable and willing to talk about sex, because if kids aren't told by their parents then they'll go elsewhere to learn about it and elsewhere may be an unsavory place to learn. If a parent won't talk about sex with their offspring then they have no right to be upset when said offspring makes poor choices about sex. I was told the mechanics of rutting when I was 10, I think that is a reasonable age. But even before that I knew my family's beliefs about sex, even though I didn't fully understand what sex entailed. Of course at age 10 upon being told what it was fully I had the normal kid reaction of "Ew, that's how I was made?" but I grew out of that pretty fast. "A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, April 28, 2011 11:13 PM

FREMDFIRMA

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AwfulTruth
--->
REAL LIFE...
--->
YOUR PARENTS HAD SEX!

Actually most folks reaction when they learn the mechanics is something on the level of ummm, wow,..uuh, ick ?

Wasn't mine though, mine was more like, that's IT ?
Bullshit.
(I was thoroughly used to being lied to by adults by then, mind you)
And proceeded to actually investigate, especially after several fellow students fell afoul of their own stupidity and ignorance, or in at least one case, the ill intent of a girl who knew more than they did, and I figure you know what that entailed.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, April 29, 2011 2:12 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

So Tennessee now has a law REQUIRING its residents to be ignorant backwoods hicks? PN must feel so... JUSTIFIED! How very at home he must feel today, being vindicated by his home state by having them insist on ignorance as a family value!

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, April 29, 2011 7:52 AM

BYTEMITE

Sex is truly disgusting. Gross, just gross. If I wanted to be within contact distance of someone else's bodily fluids, I would've become a medical doctor.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, April 29, 2011 7:57 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Thank God for 'animal impulses' or the human race would just stop.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, April 29, 2011 8:12 AM

BYTEMITE

Meh. There's plenty of other people to pick up the slack.

Can't act on what I don't have.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

YOUR OPTIONS

SHARE THREAD

NEW POSTS TODAY

USER	POST DATE

USER

POST DATE