Serbian War Criminal Finally Captured. by Magonsdaughter

This is really quite significant. Bumping so it don't float down the page.

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Friday, May 27, 2011 1:31 AM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

It *IS* quite magnificent news, you're right. Even his supporters wouldn't stand by him anymore.

But wait - it gets better:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-13566368

One of the key architects in the Rwanda genocide of '94 was arrested yesterday, too.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Thursday, June 2, 2011 5:16 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

Good. Time to die, after some torture first.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, June 2, 2011 5:25 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
Good. Time to die, after some torture first.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

Eh wha? I get the sentiment, but NOT torturing is (supposed to be) one of those things that makes us better than the bad guys. Perhaps he deserves torture and death, but I wouldn't compromise my standards for revenge. Not if I intended to carry on after getting it anyway.

And this is significant news, more so than the partisan tantrums and jewish conspiracies.

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Thursday, June 2, 2011 6:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
Good. Time to die, after some torture first.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

What is it with conservatives suddenly being so in love with torture? Where's all that blather about "inalienable rights" such as the right to NOT be subjected to any cruel and unusual punishments?

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Thursday, June 2, 2011 8:32 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

Every once in a while, with really bad and nasty people who have killed a bunch of others, I kind of have a moment where acruel streak in me comes to the surface and I think it would be fair to do that. Its not something that I'd do myself, at least, I don't think I would. Its probably not even something I'd actually have someone else do. But I just have this streak in me, this evil cruel streak that shows when confronted with really horrid people like this, Hitler, Cromwell, etc. I think its mostly talk though because when it comes down to it torturing the guy probably wouldn't make me happy and it wouldn't acomplish anything, it wouldn't bring anyone back and it wouldn't really right any wrongs. Sometimes I just feel that way, even though it isn't right or rational or productive. Sorry guys.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Friday, June 3, 2011 12:38 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
Good. Time to die, after some torture first.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

What is it with conservatives suddenly being so in love with torture? Where's all that blather about "inalienable rights" such as the right to NOT be subjected to any cruel and unusual punishments?

So, instead of simply agreeing that torture for the sake of torturing is a real bad idea, you feel compelled to go the partisan route, and play the role of contrarian.

I'm pretty sure there's no significant intel to be gained with enhanced interrogation here, so the issue is pretty much moot. Unless some just want to start a ruckus, for no real substantive reason.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, June 3, 2011 1:00 AM

I get it, Rioneira. Somtimes you hear stuff that makes your blood curdle, and your first instinct is to want them to suffer.

However, the reality. Torture, like the death penalty, demeans the society that allows it. It demeans the victim, as well as the perpetrator and solves nothing. An eye for an eye will result in a world of one eyed men. That cycle needs to be be broken. That is why the concept of justice needs to be free from the need from revenge, but demand, instead, restitution.

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Friday, June 3, 2011 1:42 AM

THEHAPPYTRADER

You suffer from the human condition, just like everyone else. I figured as much, but I was glad to see you clarify that. I think being able to recognize and admit faults in judgment makes you a wiser and better person, but in politics and internet land it probably just makes ya an easy target...

This might be shamelessly used against you in an unrelated argument, but don't feel too discouraged. They will probably be targeting the conservative label that they've attached to you (they're rather fond of labeling) more than you as a person. Stay shiny.

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Friday, June 3, 2011 2:05 AM

Congrats, HT - you've just labeled everyone to the left of you as "they" in your last post, while complaining about people being labeled.

Rappy thinks "torture for the sake of torture" is wrong. What he doesn't get is that torture for the sake of ANYTHING is wrong.

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Friday, June 3, 2011 3:50 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

He faught Al Qaeda and AlCIAduh won.

The Serb War Against Bin Laden
http://www.aim.org/media-monitor/the-serb-war-against-bin-laden/

Al Qaeda attacked Serbia: Congressional testimony by J.T. Caruso Director of FBI Counterterrorism Division
http://www.fbi.gov/news/testimony/al-qaeda-international

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Friday, June 3, 2011 12:54 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

Rappy thinks "torture for the sake of torture" is wrong. What he doesn't get is that torture for the sake of ANYTHING is wrong.

Ever read the Tom Clancy book , Without Remorse ??

Just askin'.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, June 3, 2011 1:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

Rappy thinks "torture for the sake of torture" is wrong. What he doesn't get is that torture for the sake of ANYTHING is wrong.

Ever read the Tom Clancy book , Without Remorese ??

Just askin'.

Without WHAT?

I've read Without Remorse, yes. It was a work of fiction, as I recall. Is that what you base your worldview on? Fiction? It explains your stances on an awful lot of issues...

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Friday, June 3, 2011 1:16 PM

America loves a winner!

Yeah. Everything Clancy writes about is pure fiction.

And you continue to miss the point, entirely. As usual.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, June 3, 2011 1:22 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Congrats, HT - you've just labeled everyone to the left of you as "they" in your last post, while complaining about people being labeled.

Rappy thinks "torture for the sake of torture" is wrong. What he doesn't get is that torture for the sake of ANYTHING is wrong.

I don't believe I specified what 'they' refers too, although you've taken the liberty to do it for me

If you feel the description applies to the entire left you've every right to that opinion. In general, I don't like to deal in absolutes.

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Friday, June 3, 2011 1:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Yeah. Everything Clancy writes about is pure fiction.

And you continue to miss the point, entirely. As usual.

Care to show me where I claimed that everything he writes is fiction?

You asked about a particular book, Without Remorse. It's fictional. Here's what it says on the declarations page (this is a direct quote, transcribed word for word from my copy of the book):

Quote:
This is a work of fiction. Names, characters, places and incidents either are the product of the author's imagination or are used fictitiously, and any resemblance to actual persons, living or dead, business establishments, events, or locales is entirely coincidental.

"This is a work of fiction."

Your worldview is a work of fiction, Rappy.

You lose.

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Friday, June 3, 2011 2:26 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

Here's what it ways on the declarations page (this is a direct quote, transcribed word for word from my copy of the book)

Here's what it ways ?

Really?

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, June 3, 2011 3:03 PM

Just a chilling reminder about what happens when governments are allowed to use torture.

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/middle-east-peace
-impossible-while-depraved-regimes-rule-20110603-1fl1t.html

And the justification for such abominations occuring - 'in the national interest' 'the good of the many' 'national security' 'THEY are out to get us'. Same excuses since the beginning of time.

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Friday, June 3, 2011 5:46 PM

But Magons, when WE do it, it's different, y'see, because WE don't CALL it "torture". If we call it "enhanced interrogation" then it isn't torture. It can't be, because if it was, we'd have called it torture instead.

This is seriously the way Rappy's brain works. This is how he wraps his brain in the twisted little knots that allow him to get through the day.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Friday, June 3, 2011 5:49 PM

America loves a winner!

Because it's not torture, we don't call it torture.

Pretty simple to figure that out, if you're smarter than a 5th grader.

Which some here clearly are not.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, June 3, 2011 6:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Because it's not torture, we don't call it torture.

Pretty simple to figure that out, if you're smarter than a 5th grader.

Which some here clearly are not.

Yup, you're clearly dumber than a 5th-grader. Explains why you're so in love with Palin, though, since she's just about at the same level of education.

We called it torture right up until Bush decided he wanted to use it, then called it "enhanced interrogation". We tried and convicted people for war crimes for using such methods of torture, and put them to death for their crimes.

You have been told all of this before. Are you severely brain-damaged? Can you not hold facts in your head for more than 24 hours?

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Friday, June 3, 2011 8:19 PM

It's about people becoming desensitised to pain and suffering of others, and while I hate to admit it, it kind of tends to be a slippery slope. When you start to say, this much is okay in these circumstances, then you let a few more exceptions in and create a few more circumstances, and up the ante slightly with what you do. And the result, societies that don't respect humanity, and allow the hideous torture and murder of children.

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Saturday, June 4, 2011 3:20 AM

Yup, Magons - and Rappy has already gone down that slippery slope more than once in his postings here at fff.net. First, it's not so bad if we only really do it to REALLY bad guys; then, it's not really even torture, but more of a college hazing prank or "training exercise"; and when Bin Laden was killed? Rappy's stance was "See - torture WORKS!"

We've had the discussion. We've cited the sources. We've pretty much all agreed that torture only "works" at dehumanizing both torturer AND torturee, and rarely if ever produces useful information, since anyone will say anything to stop the torture, so no information thus derived can be counted on to be accurate.

But Rappy has decided to ignore all that, and even ignore whether it's right or wrong to torture, and ignore whether it's right or wrong to re-name it and claim it ISN'T torture. Nope, he's decided that, right or wrong, anything that he thinks "gets results" is desirable.

I've heard people try to make the case that genocide works, too. I guess Rappy would be okay with that, just as long as you called it something else, like "enhanced genetics".

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Saturday, June 4, 2011 4:45 AM