Police State USSA: City council demands keys to every home and business by piratenews

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Police State USSA: City council demands keys to every home and business

POSTED BY: PIRATENEWS
UPDATED: Friday, June 17, 2011 11:08
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VIEWED: 1841
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Monday, June 13, 2011 3:28 AM

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Quote:
Ordinance #2740 is an unfunded city-wide mandate forcing the citizens of Cedar Falls to provide the government keys to their commercial properties via "lock boxes." This includes businesses, apartments, and some rental houses. On June 13th, stand up against this unconstitutional ordinance and show the Cedar Falls City Council that yes, your voice DOES matter.

http://www.freedomtorch.com/videos/11206/6400/no-lock-boxes-for-cedar-
falls

Requiring all citizens purchase $250-$2,500 mandatory lock boxes get blessing of Cedar Falls council (lockbox retailers rejoice!)
There are currently 269 buildings in Cedar Falls that have the boxes
http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_a1947ab8-14
cc-5f16-9f28-2e7d512ab0d6.html

Cedar Falls Bureaucrats to Property Owners: Give us the keys to your property…
http://www.redstate.com/laborunionreport/2011/06/12/cedar-falls-bureau
crats-to-property-owners-give-us-the-keys-to-your-property/

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Monday, June 13, 2011 1:54 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

That's disgusting. (insert look of absolute disgust)

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Wednesday, June 15, 2011 5:21 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:
Ordinance #2740 is an unfunded city-wide mandate forcing the citizens of Cedar Falls to provide the government keys to their commercial properties via "lock boxes." This includes businesses, apartments, and some rental houses.

Well, it sez right there " commercial properties", and "apartments and some rental houses", which means that the headline is typical PN exaggerated "shuh-mung-naow"
A system like this has been in place here in Long Beach for over 10 years-- I installed the box at the factory where I was working then. They typically have a set of keys to the building and internal office doors, and a set of MSDS documents for any hazardous materials inside, for use by the Fire Dept.
So here's a scenario-- Middle of the night, the fire sprinklers and alarm go off in your business, Hose jockeys roll up in their big shiny red and chrome truck. They review the MSDS documents, then use the keys to open the doors, and go inside, put out the fire.
Another scenario-- they roll up, ain't no box, something goes Boom! and a BFRC ( Big F***ing Red Cloud )rolls out. ANd they all say,' No thanks, might be poisonous or explosive stuff in there. We ain't takin' that chance. " And they back the truck down to the end of the block and wait for the fire to die out. Saw that happen at a place next door to the plant where I was working another time. They shut us down, evacuated us all, kept us down all night and part of the next day.
Another scenario, alarms, they roll up, no box, they bash down the door with an axe to get inside. False alarm, but now you gotta get your door fixed. Costs either you, or them, money, ( " Your tax dollars at work! ") and your building may not be secure overnight so stuff gets stolen.
Meanwhile, there hasn't been an epidemic of murderers, rapists, or robbers breaking these boxes open and using the keys to get into places and commit their crimes.
ANd I haven't heard of one case of the local Gestapo opening the box and using the keys to crash in on some citizen, guilty or innocent. Has anybody ACTUALLY documented a case? Might be theoretically possible, but so are a lot of things.
I think ( MY OWN PERSONAL OPINION) that the odds of the cops actually doing that are pretty low, and the downside of reducing those particular odds to 0 is pretty expensive.

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Wednesday, June 15, 2011 6:08 PM

KANEMAN

Newold....are you serious? A city ordiance that requires the town have keys to someones property....company or not....you are fine with that?.....we are fucked.

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Wednesday, June 15, 2011 6:25 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

I'm not fine with that. I know there are a few instances where it helped someone, but the potential for misuse of such a privelidge is way too high for me to support this idea.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, June 16, 2011 8:26 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Damn! I wrote a reply at 3 AM this morning. Either I didn't actually post it or it vanished. Was a work of genius, too.

Anyway, yes, I'm fine with that. My apartment building has one. Haven't had firemen break in and rob or kill anyone. Haven't had the PD SWAT team bust in and shoot anyone. Haven't seen the DHS Terrorist Busters use it to crash in on anyone, guilty or innocent. The DEA didn't use it to bust the former resident pot seller. The FBI and CIA are too busy wiretapping and listening on criminals' cell phones and Wi-Fi computer devices. Haven't had local criminals bust it open, break in, rob, kill, or rape anyone.

I do acknowledge that there is a very small possibility of any of those things happening.

Has anybody, anywhere, ACTUALLY documented a case of any of those happening?

SO it does involve a tiny increase in risk, theoretically. AND it is a tiny government intrusion.

But there are a lot of risks that are much greater, and a person should keep his paranoia under control, worry about the biggest hazards first. Ya wanta worry about something, worry about all those wireless devices you use, that are openly publicly broadcast. It's settled law, last I heard, that the gov't can eavesdrop on those without a warrant. That's why I use a land-line phone, and everything connected to my computers uses wires.

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Thursday, June 16, 2011 9:14 AM

BYTEMITE

Quote:
SO it does involve a tiny increase in risk, theoretically. AND it is a tiny government intrusion.

But there are a lot of risks that are much greater, and a person should keep his paranoia under control, worry about the biggest hazards first.

The big problem here is if it were really about what you say, there's easier ways to do it.

Called a skeleton key, don'tcha know.

Give one to firemen and paramedics if you want, they generally don't assault people or bust in without warrant. Policemen, sometimes they break that rule, I'm not particularly interested in facilitating that.

The fact that they're going to this extent of making perfect copies of all the keys when something else would work just as well makes me call bull on their claims of intention.

EDIT: It's also legal for them to wiretap, NOBC, and don't think for a second they aren't in cahoots with cell phone companies and webmail sites who'll let them ping their email servers and scan and read your stuff at leisure. Wireless won't save you.

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Thursday, June 16, 2011 11:48 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:

EDIT: It's also legal for them to wiretap, NOBC, and don't think for a second they aren't in cahoots with cell phone companies and webmail sites who'll let them ping their email servers and scan and read your stuff at leisure. Wireless won't save you.

At least with a wiretap, they're supposed to get a court to rubber-stamp it first. Ain't the same as they're gonna. WireLESS they don't even hafta do that-- " Yeah, we were just listening to our radio, judge, when we overheard this stuff coming out of the blue. Turned out it was about our suspect. That's admissable, right?" "Yepper" Point I thought I was making is that wireless ain't secure at all. Hard-wired is better, at least a little.

I won't argue the intention of the Authorities, because I can't know it, and neither can you,
But I'll ask the question a THIRD TIME:

" CAN ANYBODY ANYWHERE ACTUALLY DOCUMENT A CASE WHERE THESE BOXES HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO AN ACTUAL CRIME?"

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Thursday, June 16, 2011 12:13 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

As with a lot of controversial ideas, I think the townsfolk should vote on the issue. That way _they can decide what type of risks and rewards are acceptable for them. They should be the ones who decide and if they decide to go ahead and do it then it is their choice, if they decide to do it then they see it as potentially positive and if they decide not to then they saw it as too much of a risk. It should be up to the townsfolk.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, June 16, 2011 12:24 PM

BYTEMITE

Quote:

" CAN ANYBODY ANYWHERE ACTUALLY DOCUMENT A CASE WHERE THESE BOXES HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO AN ACTUAL CRIME?"

Doesn't matter. There's such a term as "dangerous precedence."

Besides, a referendum doesn't require documented case of abuse of legislation, just a public petition. Which looks like that's what's happening.

Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individual_mandate

Wikipedia also says: "Individual mandate: an often controversial government requirement for the purchase of goods by individuals."

There's always questions, by courts, congress, and so on if an individual mandate is ever constitutional. Of course, they happen to consider that a dangerous precedent as well, so they never strike the concept down.

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Friday, June 17, 2011 4:18 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

THIS THREAD IS CURSED! BEWARE THE BLACK HOLE OF CYBERSPACE!

3rd post I've tried to make to this thread, VANISHED!

And this is a topic I feel very serious about, but very rational, not angry.

THASS it, I'm done with this one.

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Friday, June 17, 2011 4:49 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:

" CAN ANYBODY ANYWHERE ACTUALLY DOCUMENT A CASE WHERE THESE BOXES HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO AN ACTUAL CRIME?"

Give it time...

A 25-year veteran of the Knoxville Police Dept in Tennessee told me how, as a rookie, he was trained to handle a "burglery investigation".

A grocery store was burgled and several KPD patrol cars responded to the security alarm call.

The rookie was all excited, to see how the professionals investigated this heinous crime. After a lifetime of watching cop shows on TV, he expected to see fingerprinting, downloading security video, questioning witnesses, taking inventory of missing items, etc.

Well, he did get to see the taking of inventory.

His Sgt was filling up his patrol car with stolen loot. Not recovered stolen loot.

The Sgt told the rookie, "This is how it's done."

After 25 years of this shit, the disabled "rookie" is still walking a beat in a crack infested neighborhood in Darkest Knoxville, with his drug dealing informants warning him that his own KPD superiors are "out to get him".

Perhaps he was targeted because he was upset that murder charges were dropped against the 2 confessed shooters of his partner, despite their videotaped confession and recovery of the murder gun. Which is why he was talking to me.
http://piratenews.org/copkillers.html

6 hours after I published this story in a local newspaper, my car was stolen by KPD. The news editor had warned me to take my name off the byline, but I said, "What can they do to me?" KPD denied towing the car, so I reported it STOLEN in the NCIC database. 2 months later, I got a tow bill for $700. Never did get my car back. Then the same tow company stole my 2nd car, which I never got back. My lawyer got 2 guns put to his head, then dismissed the "slam dunk" lawsuit against KPD.

My car was stolen 2 weeks after my condo was engulfed by a towering inferno, when the govt building next door burned down 3 blocks from the fire station. As the towering inferno was shooting flames 100 feet into the night sky, a Knoxville Fire Dept supervisor threatened to have me arrested, for me trying to give him photos of the arsonist setting the fire, holding a flame in his hand. In this town, KPD and KFD work with the mafiya insurance companies, mafiya banksters and local lawyers and judges to run the insurance fraud rackets, letting buildings burn to the ground.

Welcome to the Police State. Now with lockboxes...

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Friday, June 17, 2011 4:52 AM

FIVVER

Newoldbrowncoat,

Let me be the one person to agree with you. I recently headed our church's building committee and our fire codes require such a box. In our case it's in the lobby so they still have to get through the door (or a window) and it contains the keys to every lock in the building, including the elevator. Mounting it on the outside makes a lot of sense in increasing reaction time. It also has a card listing all the emergency contacts.

We have a lot of sleep overs for youth of all ages so we also went to the expense of sprinkling the building.

As for the idea of the responders having master keys (skeleton keys went out with Queen Victoria) there are so many manufactures and styles of locks available that wouldn't be practical.

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Friday, June 17, 2011 8:47 AM

FREMDFIRMA

I would say it depends on the neighborhood.

Some places, that keybox would be ripped off, smashed and looted within the hour, some places no one would ever think to do it.

Also there's the matter of credibility and trust - if your local Gov isn't worthy of either (say, Detroit, for example) it'd be a damn bad idea.

And of course, the more people know the code to that keybox, the more chance some moron is gonna write it down and lose it, share it with some punkass crook relative, or the like - there's only one person who does know how to open the Site three keybox, that being me, and I couldn't tell you the code if I wanted to cause damn me but I've forgotten it - my thumb knows which buttons to hit though, lol.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Friday, June 17, 2011 10:21 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

I would say it depends on the neighborhood.

Some places, that keybox would be ripped off, smashed and looted within the hour, some places no one would ever think to do it.

Also there's the matter of credibility and trust - if your local Gov isn't worthy of either (say, Detroit, for example) it'd be a damn bad idea.

And of course, the more people know the code to that keybox, the more chance some moron is gonna write it down and lose it, share it with some punkass crook relative, or the like - there's only one person who does know how to open the Site three keybox, that being me, and I couldn't tell you the code if I wanted to cause damn me but I've forgotten it - my thumb knows which buttons to hit though, lol.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

Aw, DAMN! I WAS DONE!
I checked the Knox-Box website-- they made the one I installed. The front door is 1/2 steel plate. If you bolt it thru a masonry wall, which I did, you'll tear down the wall before the bolts break. It can be wired to your existing security system-- any body opens it or pulls it loose from the wiring, it sets off your burglar alarm. It uses a key, not a code pad. Knox says they use Medeco locks, which are one of the most secure, and a special blank that can only be ordered from them. They recommend that the key be carried in a sealed box on the fire engine, and the seal only be broken after a logged order from Fire Dispatch. Still some ways that can fall down or be defeated, and they aren't the only manufacturer, but it's pretty Damn secure.

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Friday, June 17, 2011 11:08 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Yeah, but that ain't cheap - cost effectiveness vs reasonable use, yadda freakin yadda, too bad most insurance companies are complete dicks who refuse to give even obvious discounts.
Case in Point: My auto insurance provider refuses to take into account that my car is in a lot protected by actively patrolling security...
Despite the fact that said security is *me* and touching my wheels will bring me down on you like a sack of bricks.

Thing is, as a mandatory policy this sucks - as an optional concept allowing the businesses and whatnot in question to come to a reasonable accord (for the reasons of standardisation) on what equipment to use, far more workable.
It's that "mandatory" part which sets all my hackles up, cause that always, ALWAYS leads to some form of abuse/exploitation, again, case in point: auto insurance.

Also: Medeco locks ain't as secure as you'd think, or they would have you believe, I have a polymer bump-key right here on my desk which'll knock open most M3 series in less than a minute, courtesy of GeekFarm, but hell, most garden variety punks couldn't pop a kwikset if you gave em all day to do it, lol.

Most places wouldn't *need* such extremes as that, I do risk-assessments for potential clients (and my misspent and crooked youth makes me pretty good at it) and even most places in Detroit need not go THAT far - just enough to frustrate the local criminal element into tossing up their hands and going elsewhere.

There's also what we call the screw-with-you box, which is placed at a more obvious location and serves no purpose *BUT* to frustrate them, while also entertaining the hell out of your security staff.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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