Georgia's greatest treasure destroyed under incompetent response by dreamtrove

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Georgia's greatest treasure destroyed under incompetent response

POSTED BY: DREAMTROVE
UPDATED: Wednesday, July 6, 2011 18:26
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VIEWED: 1675
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Saturday, July 2, 2011 2:57 PM

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/US/07/02/georgia.swamp.fire/

Ack. One of my favorite places in the world.

My world is being destroyed.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Sunday, July 3, 2011 5:58 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

That bastard Obama! It's ALL HIS FAULT !

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Sunday, July 3, 2011 7:22 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/US/07/02/georgia.swamp.fire/

Ack. One of my favorite places in the world.

My world is being destroyed.

By nature, no less.

It seems this is a fire started by lightning, in a closed ecosystem, and will burn itself out unless it rains first.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Sunday, July 3, 2011 8:46 AM

BYTEMITE

Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
That bastard Obama! It's ALL HIS FAULT !

...

No one said anything about Obama.

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Sunday, July 3, 2011 8:57 AM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
That bastard Obama! It's ALL HIS FAULT !

...

No one said anything about Obama.

Wait for it...

It seems strongly implied that SOMEONE is responsible, SOMEONE is doing this on purpose, the way the thread title was written.

I note for the record that it DOESN'T say "Georgia's greatest treasure being destroyed by natural disaster as happens every few years."

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Sunday, July 3, 2011 9:42 AM

HARDWARE

This is a non-story. About 10 years back the National Park Service allowed wildfires to damage parts of Yellowstone. The environmentalists and Sierra clubs were crying a river. Guess what? Mother Nature had repaired the damage within a couple of years. The opened areas allowed wildlife to flourish. New verge areas between forests and trees gave an abundance of feeding and habit to a variety of species. Now those areas are more vibrant and beautiful than ever.

I expect the same for the Okefenokee.

It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so, and will follow it by suppressing opposition, subverting all education to seize early the minds of the young, and by killing, locking up, or driving underground all heretics - RAH

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

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Monday, July 4, 2011 5:16 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
That bastard Obama! It's ALL HIS FAULT !

...

No one said anything about Obama.

I DID ! I figured I'd beat everyone else to the punch.

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Monday, July 4, 2011 5:33 AM

BYTEMITE

Yeah, because all of us who don't like Obama think that he runs state emergency response programs on top of eating babies and such.

I'm more just pissed off about all the damn destruction from the wildfires. There are plants and wildlife there. Sure the cycle of nature may grow back everything, maybe the nutrients returned will make the vegetation that grows afterward more healthy, maybe maybe maybe. But I'd be upset about wildfires hitting my favourite parks, I can be saddened by wildfires hitting any park or wilderness area.

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Monday, July 4, 2011 5:46 PM

HARDWARE

Sad maybe. But nature has coped with wildfires for hundreds of thousands of years. I don't think we really need to interfere with the natural cycle.

It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so, and will follow it by suppressing opposition, subverting all education to seize early the minds of the young, and by killing, locking up, or driving underground all heretics - RAH

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

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Tuesday, July 5, 2011 9:47 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Meh.

I remember the fires from down there a few yrs ago. The smoke made it all the way up to Atlanta, it was as thick as a morning fog. Except that it was smoke, and it smelled, well... smokey.

Went away after a few days, but it was weird.

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Wednesday, July 6, 2011 4:27 AM

BYTEMITE

Not what I was saying.

There's both a scenic and therefore TOURISM impact associated with wildfires. I'm saying that yes, I'm mourning the (temporary) loss of the natural aesthetic of the places. But I'm also aware of a major economic impact to the recreation towns that tend to cluster around these places.

So yes, it's important. Both on intangible levels AND tangible ones.

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Wednesday, July 6, 2011 5:02 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

OK, all snark aside: Just who is to blame for the incompetent response in the thread title? You wanta name names? Job titles? Departments?

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Wednesday, July 6, 2011 5:45 AM

BYTEMITE

Look, DT is not even around anymore, and just because you're feeling reactionary to some accusation of incompetence (to whomever) does not justify you derailing the thread this way.

Do you care about the environment or do you care more about politics? If the later, then I have nothing to say to you right now.

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Wednesday, July 6, 2011 7:30 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Look, DT is not even around anymore, and just because you're feeling reactionary to some accusation of incompetence (to whomever) does not justify you derailing the thread this way.

Do you care about the environment or do you care more about politics? If the later, then I have nothing to say to you right now.

Are you referring to me? Certainly hope not.
My last post:

Quote:

OK, all snark aside: Just who is to blame for the incompetent response in the thread title? You wanta name names? Job titles? Departments?

Certainly isn't derailing the thread to return to the subject in the title. If I was being a wise-ass before, I certainly was not in that post and am not now.

I do care about the environment to some degree-- but it's in Florida or Georgia, which are a LONG way from California, so it doesn't affect me directly or personally. The fire was started by lightning, according to the story I read. Long standing policy has been that lightning fires are natural processes, acts of God. Policy has been to let them burn, until they endanger people or private property. This supposedly burns out underbrush and allows more mature growth to flourish. Forestry professionals have used this policy for a long time-- it can be debated in each new case, I suppose, but it has been the standard.

Now , I am sorry if some particular place or landmark that's a personal favorite of yours has burned-- that's sad, that's a tragedy.

But the swamp will recover-- it may take some years, but there are brush fires, some of them very large, everywhere, every year. The Earth will recover.

As to my concern with " politics", I might have been flippant before, but now, I'd really like to know. If there has been incompetence, I'd like to see it identified, and those responsible removed, so that next time , the response will be more competent.

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Wednesday, July 6, 2011 8:08 AM

KWICKO

It seems odd that it's being so strongly implied - if not outright stated as an accusation - that an "incompetent response" is the cause of the Georgia fire; meanwhile, no comments at all from DT about the very much man-caused oil spill on the Yellowstone River, and the very much man-caused incompetent response to that incident.

I can see a natural event and think, "Man, that's terrible; that's a real shame." I don't blame the government for it. I didn't blame Bush for CAUSING Katrina - I blamed him for the incompetence of the reaction at the federal level.

But I *DO* tend to get a bit outraged by MAN-CAUSED disasters. The earthquake and tsunami in Japan? Natural disasters. What happened at Fukushima? Not so much.

Okefenokee Swamp fire? Sucks, but it happens, even in nature, even before Man ever existed.

Oil pipeline spills in Yellowstone? Again, not so much a natural thing.

Now, as to DT: Where'd he go? I know he complained of being "piled on" and feeling singled out. Welcome to the real world; put on your big-boy pants and let's get back to work.

I've had running fights going with TONS of users here - often including those on the left AND the right. I don't complain about this or whine about being "piled on" or ganged up on, becuase it's untoward to do so. I will argue my point, and I'll provide cites and evidence to back my arguments. If I am in the right, and know that for a fact, I honestly don't care if I have to argue it against one, a hundred, or a million.

What I saw in that other thread was someone arguing an unsupported viewpoint with unsupportable views. He refused to offer evidence or cites, claimed he had them but then erased them, and then ran away while complaining about the shoddy treatment he was getting, all while refusing to answer direct questions and while calling people names in a very personal form of attack.

I view the wildfires in the swamp as a shame, but am uncertain what the "competent" response from government or private industry should be. If Obama has only $2 trillion in revenue and has to decide where to spend it, maybe it's been decided that a swamp fire isn't a suitable use of public funds. If no private corporation is willing to fight the fire because there's no profit in it for them, then they've decided that profits trump death tolls, at least where swamp critters are concerned.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Wednesday, July 6, 2011 8:59 AM

BYTEMITE

Thing is, that when you have fires in the plains or western forests, that IS good, because there's nutrients, and it does what you say NOBC.

I'm not sure that works the same way for a swamp. In a swamp, the balance is between how much oxygen is in the water versus how much dead stuff is decaying and using up that oxygen.

Environmental destruction doesn't affect us if it's not local? Hell, it affects us even if it wasn't remotely even recent! Even if it happened thousands of years ago! What kind of, I mean... WHAT?

Quote:
Certainly isn't derailing the thread to return to the subject in the title. If I was being a wise-ass before, I certainly was not in that post and am not now.

Just because something was in the title of a thread doesn't mean it's the SUBJECT of the thread. It's a matter of context. The first post, the subject body said nothing specific about incompetence or who DT is blaming for this. So I'd argue this thread is more about environmental destruction. This one is happening naturally, but that doesn't mean there might not still be consequences.

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Wednesday, July 6, 2011 9:09 AM

BYTEMITE

Kwicko, DT does not like oil or natural gas pollution in his water. You know it, I know it. He's posted about it other times plenty.

BTW, I *DID* post on that thread, and I think it's a fucking travesty.

Quote:
Now, as to DT: Where'd he go? I know he complained of being "piled on" and feeling singled out. Welcome to the real world; put on your big-boy pants and let's get back to work.

You guys are overdoing it. You keep bringing this up EVERYWHERE. If I were in DT's shoes, I'd feel the same way. Maybe DT's manner sometimes invites an attack, if he's up on his high horse, but it doesn't justify continuing to attack him in this way, and bringing up old posts as further fuel for the fire.

I defended him on the other thread because I thought his last comments were being misunderstood. Other than that, to me it appears that DT is not around to discuss any of this further. Now if he comes back in a few days or weeks, you know, have at it. But if he's not here, I don't see what the point is in still talking about him. There's plenty of issues out there.

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Wednesday, July 6, 2011 4:36 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

Now, as to DT: Where'd he go? I know he complained of being "piled on" and feeling singled out. Welcome to the real world; put on your big-boy pants and let's get back to work.

I checked on his profile- he was here on July 4, didn't even bother to reply to this thread. Did he have some kind of tantrum/ meltdown on a thread that I missed?

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Wednesday, July 6, 2011 5:50 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER

Why should he bother speaking for himself when so many others (like yourself) are more than willing to speak for him.

Or maybe he just feels it's a wasted effort, considering how some people can't tell the difference between 'under' and 'because of.'

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Wednesday, July 6, 2011 6:26 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

Here's the thing about wildfires: They are a natural part of the eco system and do positive things in the long run, at least that is how it is meant to be. Back in the day, if a forest burnt, there were forests all around and so there were plenty of forested areas and swamps around and thus the damaged area had lots to draw from to recover. But now our forests are fewer and further between and so if an area gets burnt out it is harder to recover. Sure it generally happens, but because such natural treasures are rarer now losing parts of them is more of a travesty, at least for a while.

I hope DT's swamp will recover promptly and things will be right with the earth as they've been through countless cycles over the eons.

I too think that NewOld et al's responses were a bit overkill in their negativity and lacked common humanity for someone who feels sad about something they care for. Byte seems to be the only one who gets it.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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