History of US Intervention in Iran by canttakesky

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

History of US Intervention in Iran

POSTED BY: CANTTAKESKY
UPDATED: Sunday, December 18, 2011 15:44
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VIEWED: 2043
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Saturday, December 17, 2011 9:05 AM

CANTTAKESKY

Excellent video.

Shortened link here for those who don't see a link.
http://tinyurl.com/6mhuocp

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Sunday, December 18, 2011 4:11 AM

CANTTAKESKY

Why is it sometimes the video embeds ok and other times it doesn't show up or embed? What am I doing wrong?

-----
"Christmas is a time when kids tell Santa what they want and adults pay for it. Deficits are when adults tell the government what they want - and their kids pay for it." - Richard Lamm

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Sunday, December 18, 2011 4:27 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I think the site flips a coin, myself.

Here is an interview with Ron Paul where he tries to touch on the issue, and the bloviating interviewer keeps trying to cut him off.

Quote:
youtube.com/watch?v=5m76BOQ_2Hs&feature=related

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Sunday, December 18, 2011 6:36 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Actually, Ron Paul evades the question and tries to steer the conversation to unrelated topics. He gives a very Neville Chamberlain response. He thinks if we just stop " annoying " them and let them go about their business, everything will just be shiny. Iran is actively engaged in funding / supplying terrorist activities on several fronts, a crucial point Paul refuses to fully acknowledge. If he does, his stock answer is - 'American made them do this', which isn't entirely true. Iran's current govt is a hostile, repressive govt, which many in that country despise. The Iranian Green revolution is a clear sign that many want an end to the theocracy that's running that country.

And sure, O'Reilly is a blow hard. He intentionally limits the time guests have to answer his sometimes complicated questions, which require more than a " yes / no " answer, and when they try to elaborate, he does cut them off. It's a game that's being played, but he's not the only one playing it. The format of the show, of the interview style he has, only allows for so much time. O'Reilly is well aware of this, and tries to bully his guests into quick, sound bite answers. When a guest either wants to fully explore the question , OR is trying to play O'Reilly at his own game, by drawing out their answer ( as most seasoned politicians, lawyers, will do ) that's when things get "heated".

It's mostly Bill's fault, imo, but he's not alone when it comes to how this game is played.

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

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Sunday, December 18, 2011 7:36 AM

DREAMTROVE

Perhaps Neville Chamberlain was right. We did not stop the holocaust, and we might have made it worse. Maybe fear of war with the west is a better diplomatic tool than actual war with the west. We have been defeated in Afghanistan, as we were defeated in Vietnam and N. Korea; we are defeatable.

I think that Ron Paul did miss a logical fallacy in the question "aren't you running to the left of Obama on this issue?" which is that pro-war is not, historically, a right wing stance, nor is anti-war a left wing on. Even currently, our progressive left wing candidate has inherited and continued two wars (one ending, the other expanding) and added to that, five more. That's not an anti-war position. By not answering the underlying charge, he is granting Obama status as the "peace candidate" which IMHO is absurd.

TO your other points:

The green revolution was Obama/Hillary's attempt to have a coup in Iran and install Mousavi, a former hardline leader of Iran, over an obviously democratically elected one.

As to the Iranian support for Hezbollah, I would question their status as a "terrorist organization" but this hits closer to the heart of the matter. Hezbollah represents no threat to the US, but does have a serious hold on territory which it intends to defend and that territory falls within the Eretz Yisrael, the images of greater Israel that haunt revisionist zionists like Ben Netanyahu.

We can question the historical accuracy of this map as being the Unified Kingdom of David..
But before we go painting the Iranians as religious lunatics, let's first recognize that this is *also* religious lunacy. We can argue all we want about the true historical and legitimate borders of Israel, but this map isn't pulled from historical documents and legal claims or present population, but rather it is drawn from religious texts, and set down as a policy goal in the 21st century.

At the risk of sounding like an apologist for Iran, I'll add that if Iran becomes a threat to the national security of the United States or Israel, I'll take note when it does, and have no desire to act preemptively before that point. I actually have no interest in protecting Iran, but rather in protecting the US and Israel. This conflict is not in our interests, nor in that of the jewish people. It's the rantings of a madman, who happens at the moment to be the Prime Minister of Israel. I do not think Ahmadinejad is a religious nutjob, and I don't think we would be doing the world a favor if we managed to replace him with one.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Sunday, December 18, 2011 8:09 AM

CANTTAKESKY

Did anyone watch the first video I posted? It really puts where we stand in perspective.

Trying the link again.

This didn't work.

This did.

Quote:
youtube.com/watch?v=_WVtpao0KSM"

-----
"Christmas is a time when kids tell Santa what they want and adults pay for it. Deficits are when adults tell the government what they want - and their kids pay for it." - Richard Lamm

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Sunday, December 18, 2011 12:18 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

I like Anthony's solution: Put the link into a quote, so at the very least, people can see it to highlight so they can copy/paste.

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Sunday, December 18, 2011 12:45 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:

CTS, what's this revisionist nonsense? I never learned this in High School, therefore I dismiss it!

Just kidding. It's actually less damning than it COULD be- it leaves out some of the more unbelievable things, heh heh.
But, nice alternate Earth parallel at the end.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Sunday, December 18, 2011 1:08 PM

DREAMTROVE

The issue is that there's tracer at the end of a link that has the player embed.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Sunday, December 18, 2011 1:09 PM

HKCAVALIER

Less damning than it could be??? Quite as damning as necessary, I'd say. Like saying your girlfriend is less pregnant than she could be, or your uncle less dead than is absolutely possible.

This is what I'll never understand about the right-wing. This stuff is simply, uncomplicatedly true. We DID install the Shaw. He DID replace a democratically elected Prime Minister. The Shah WAS a brutal dictator. We DID do it all for the gorram oil. This is mere history. But the right-wing denies it all. It's like pretending that the victim of your drunken hit and run never existed. It's immoral and deeply, deeply cowardly.

You wanna be a nationalist? Fine. Just love the whole country, warts and all. Don't fudge on the less photogenic bits.

This stuff makes me so angry. Why can't this country just own up?

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Sunday, December 18, 2011 1:51 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Why can't this country just own up?

Because it would make future 'involvements' less palatable, I conjure.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Sunday, December 18, 2011 2:15 PM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Iran is actively engaged in funding / supplying terrorist activities on several fronts, a crucial point Paul refuses to fully acknowledge.

For the record, we do exactly the same things. I guess it's different when we do it, though. Or it's not terrorism because we don't call it terrorism. ;)

Who do you think funds Israel's nonstop meddling? When Iranian scientists are murdered, who do you think funded the hit?

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Sunday, December 18, 2011 2:24 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

Who do you think funds Israel's nonstop meddling? When Iranian scientists are murdered, who do you think funded the hit?

Mike, there's no hard, solid, conclusive evidence that we are even slightly involved in that stuff! Why oh why do you jump to conclusions based merely on a long list of past misdemeanors on our part?

The faux-STUPID Chrisisall

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Sunday, December 18, 2011 3:10 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

For the record, we do exactly the same things. I guess it's different when we do it, though. Or it's not terrorism because we don't call it terrorism. ;)

Who do you think funds Israel's nonstop meddling? When Iranian scientists are murdered, who do you think funded the hit?

It's not terrorism because we don't engage in terrorism. THAT is the big difference.

Yes, Israel's fight for existence is what you call " meddling " , huh?

I don't know who killed the Iranian scientist. Do you?

And what IF it was Israel ? Any chance that you think the lives of a couple of scientists are worth saving 10K 50 K , 100 K Israeli citizens ? In the blast of a nuke sent from Iran ?

No, of course not.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, December 18, 2011 3:39 PM

DREAMTROVE

Not to get into the middle of a marital squabble, but:

Some Republicans said assassinating Iranian scientists would be a good idea, and then Hillary said something similar, and then it happened. I suspect us.

We hire people that *we* call terrorists, like the mujahideen.

Oh, yes, it could have been Israel than made the hit on the scientist. Good point.

If it was Israel, then why not just wash your hands of it, and blame Israel, why enter into the wonderful world of pre-crime?

The really sad thing is that a nuke is the only thing that will stop us from invading Iran, as we proved in N. Korea, and Iraq, have nuke? we don't invade; give up weapons? We kill ya. But sad is that they will not only have to have a nuke but to demonstrate it to make the point to us that they have it.

At this point my feeling about this country is that we are batsh*t fucking insane on a level that Kim Jong Il could only dream about, and that we are damned lucky that no one else on this planet is this far gone.

Our latest insanity seems almost daily, from riot police against peace rallies to predator drones against farmers to the NDAA.

ETA: I think this is a little bit of religious nutjobbery, no offense:

Quote:

And what IF it was Israel ? Any chance that you think the lives of a couple of scientists are worth saving 10K 50 K , 100 K Israeli citizens

I don't know what it is about the christians, among whom I know you don't count yourself, but that they hsuck up to jews so much, it's even beginning to creep jon stewart out. But as the person here with the most vested interest in this topic until Mince comes back, I can say that I think this is insane. Israel is in far more danger if we go to war with Iran than if we don't.

That said, it's never justifiable to kill some non-criminal people doing their jobs on the theory that they might advance technology that might result in future warfare - that's, well, it's what sarah connor would do, okay. But I still don't think it's justifiable. It's a paranoid fruitcake thing to do, and I think that it endangers our scientists.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Sunday, December 18, 2011 3:44 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

It's not terrorism because we don't engage in terrorism. THAT is the big difference.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!! LAFF OF THE DAY!
Can always count on you, AU!
So funny! OMG!

The laughing-his-ass-off Chrisisall

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