REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

White House to announce opposition to Keystone pipeline project

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Thursday, January 19, 2012 11:23
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Wednesday, January 18, 2012 8:40 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

The Obama administration will likely announce its opposition to the controversial Keystone pipeline project as early as today, according to a Democratic source briefed on the matter.
The rest at http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/01/18/white-house-to-announc
e-opposition-to-keystone-pipeline-project/?hpt=hp_t3


All I can say is "Yayyyy!" It wouldn't "create" as many jobs as are touted, but it would harm America, financially as well as environmentally. I posted information on that some time ago, but don't know how to find it. Try checking out the facts. I did. The FACTS, not the right-wing propaganda. I'd offer links and quotes, but Wiki's down (sniff...).

Oh, wait, there's still "Go"...
Quote:

The Canadian oil industry, with the strong backing of Prime Minister Stephen Harper’s government, wants to build a pipeline to move crude oil from Alberta to the Gulf of Mexico.

The firms involved have asked the U.S. State Department to approve this project, even as they’ve told Canadian government officials how the pipeline can be used to add at least $4 billion to the U.S. fuel bill.

U.S. farmers, who spent $12.4 billion on fuel in 2009, according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture, could see expenses rise to $15 billion or higher in 2012 or 2013 if the pipeline goes through. http://michiganmessenger.com/47263/expert-keystone-pipeline-to-increas
e-midwest-gas-prices
as to jobs:
Quote:

According to the Republican leadership and other proponents of the pipeline, it is expected to create 20,000 jobs in construction and supplier industries.

There have been questions raised about this number by the State Department, which must approve the pipeline, and other analysts. It seems that this 20,000 number refers to "job years," not jobs. This means that if a construction worker is employed for two years working on the pipeline, it would count as holding two jobs in the 20,000 jobs number. The number of jobs created at a point in time would likely be closer to half of this figure, perhaps less than 10,000.

It's also likely that many of these jobs will go to Canadians. This is good for them, but beside the point if the goal is to create jobs for people in the United States.

But even 10,000 jobs would be better than nothing, the question is how much better? Without some context the public is not well-positioned to assess the economic argument for the pipeline.

One basis of comparison is the economy's normal rate of job creation. Back in the late 1990s the economy created three million jobs a year for four years. At this pace, the jobs created by Keystone Pipeline would be equal to about 30 hours of job creation. http://www.opednews.com/articles/Keystone-Jobs-Versus-Compe-by-Dean-Ba
ker-120103-928.html
. The Keystone XL Pipeline may negatively impact Nebraska’s water supply and lead to environmental destruction.

2. I question that the Keystone XL Pipeline will result in the creation of long-term jobs for the state.

3. Our research does not support the claim that the Keystone XL Pipeline will lead to greater energy independence.

4. Reasonable public officials have realized the potentially negative ramifications associated with building the Keystone XL Pipeline over the Ogallala Aquifer. http://www.waunetanebraska.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=a
rticle&id=3401:keystone-xl-pipeline-bad-for-nebraska&catid=53:guest-columns&Itemid=66

Those aren't as good as the more comprehensive facts I found before, but they touch on some of the points. The debate is being staged as creation of jobs versus environmental concerns. There are environmental concerns (especially Ogallala), but that's not the real debate. There are many reasons the Keystone project will increase profits for Canadian company, but harm America.

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Wednesday, January 18, 2012 10:00 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Probably would have created MORE jobs than it touted, but even if not, that's more jobs than Obama has created in this economic climate.

So, this administration wastes the public's money on scams like Solyndra, but won't allow the free market to create jobs and lessen the dependency on oil from Muslim nations, instead of our close allies, here in N.America. Canada isn't going to just sit on that oil, and likely it'll end up going to China, where it'll be used to expand their economy, making more $ for them, and force us into more hardship.

Change we should have never bought into, ever.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, January 18, 2012 10:53 AM

BYTEMITE


Aren't the Canadians trying to develop tar sands? That's what I heard.

Double checking... Yeah, that's what it is.

I have doubts that tar sands is a feasible source of petroleum. :/ This all just strikes me as flim flam and pork barrel, some kind of investment scam. They'll get the businesses going, sell to some rube, jump ship with all the money while the businesses go belly up.

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Wednesday, January 18, 2012 11:16 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Most of the oil the US uses comes from where ?

I believe it's Canada.

Doesn't seem like all that much of a flim flam scam to me.

But Solyndra ? Oh hell yeah, that's all on the up and up.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, January 18, 2012 11:22 AM

BYTEMITE


It comes from lots of places, mostly dependent on the market price and availability. Just being close by is no guarantee we see a piece of it, rather like BP and the gulf drilling. Well, unless there's a spill.

http://www.wisegeek.com/where-does-the-us-oil-supply-come-from.htm

Canada sends us the most barrels, but they represent about 30% of the 60% of oil that we import. So most oil is arguably probably domestic.

Also, tar sands aren't the same thing as regular oil production, which is what you're talking about. Very different method, one which I think is questionable.

I don't know what this "Solyndra" thing is.

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Wednesday, January 18, 2012 11:31 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:

I don't know what this "Solyndra" thing is.



Not surprising, actually...

Quote:

Obama's Solyndra scandal reeks of the Chicago Way

Those of us from Chicago know exactly what the Solyndra scandal smells like. And It doesn't smell fresh and green.

September 18, 2011|John Kass


The Solyndra scandal cost at least a half-billion public dollars. It is plaguing President Barack Obama. And it's being billed as a Washington story.

But back in Obama's political hometown, those of us familiar with the Chicago Way can see something else in Solyndra — something that the Washington crowd calls "optics." In fact, it's not just a Washington saga — it has all the elements of a Chicago City Hall story, except with more zeros.

***The FBI is investigating what happened with Solyndra, a solar panel company that got a $535 million government-backed loan with the help of the Obama White House over the objections of federal budget analysts. ***

Obama and Vice President Joe Biden got a nice photo op. They got to make speeches about being "green." But then Solyndra went bankrupt. Americans lost jobs. Taxpayers got stuck with the bill. And members of Congress are now in high dudgeon and making speeches.

Federal investigators want to know what role political fundraising played in the guarantee of the questionable loan. Washington bureaucrats warned the deal was lousy. And White House spokesmen flail desperately, like weakened victims in a cheesy vampire movie.

So forget optics. What about smell? It smells bad, and it's going to smell worse.

Or, did you really believe it when the White House mouthpieces — who are also Chicago City Hall mouthpieces — promised they were bringing a new kind of politics to Washington?

This is not a new kind of politics. It's the old kind. The Chicago kind.

And now the Tribune Washington Bureau has reported that the U.S. Department of Energy employee who helped monitor the Solyndra loan guarantee was one of Obama's top fundraisers.

Fundraising? Contracts? Imagine that.

Steve Spinner was the Obama administration official in charge of handing out billions and billions of tax dollars to "green" energy deals. According to the Tribune story, Spinner the other day invited Obama's national political finance committee to a meeting in Chicago.

The name of the Obama fundraising initiative?

"Technology for Obama."

The idea of the Obama fundraisers getting together, talking "green," and perhaps offering taxpayer loan guarantees to insider businesses in the interest of helping the environment — it all seems rather fresh.

Like a mountain meadow.

Until you realize it's the same old politics, the same kind practiced in Washington and Chicago and anywhere else where appetites are satisfied by politicians. When the government picks winners and losers, who's the loser? Just look in the mirror, hold that thought, and tell me later.

Republicans are hoping to hang this around Obama's political neck, and they're doing a good job of it now because his approval ratings are low and the jobless numbers are abysmal and the Democrats are in full killer-rabbit panic. But there have been Republican national scandals, too, and they're always ridiculously and depressingly similar.

At least in Illinois our scandals are quite ecumenical, with Republicans eager to help Democrats steal whatever they can grab.

In Solyndra, like any proper City Hall political scandal, there are similar archetypes.

There are the guys who count. The guys who bring the cash. They count because they do the counting. They have leverage. They're always there at the fundraisers. And so they're the ones who are allowed to gorge at the public trough.




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, January 18, 2012 11:44 AM

BYTEMITE


Hmm. I would agree, that does sound crooked. It's a shame we won't ever know who was behind the company in question, whether it was Obama's attempt to look good on environmentalism, if it was crony politics that fell through, or if that was a front group for another company that was also trying to look environmentally friendly.

I do think that solar energy can be very effective in certain parts of the country. Utah, for example, has sunny days 2/3rds of the year, and many of our zero-energy buildings use solar power. It definitely would be less effective in more cloudy or rainy states.

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Wednesday, January 18, 2012 11:57 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
Hmm. I would agree, that does sound crooked. It's a shame we won't ever know who was behind the company in question, whether it was Obama's attempt to look good on environmentalism, if it was crony politics that fell through, or if that was a front group for another company that was also trying to look environmentally friendly.



Not real sure who was behind it is the right question, but it does show case the Left wing slant in the US media. This is a huge scandal, and one which directly involves this administration, yet you apparently are unaware of anything concerning it.

Always flip the coin, and imagine what would be reported, ( and how often ) were Bush still in office, and some deal like this had hit the fan, costing the US tax payers ? ( a shiny penny for anyone capable of NOT interjecting the Iraq war? So tired and predictable , I can hear it already )

Same goes for the Fast and Furious gun running scandal. These should be HUGE stories, but because they put the President and AG Holder in a bad light, we're hearing little to nothing about them. Instead, the press it yapping about Mitt Romeny's taxes or his non gaffe remarks about being able to fire those who don't do the job they're paid to do.

It's not always how the story is spun. It can be what IS covered, as well as what's ignored, which shows the media bias.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, January 18, 2012 12:14 PM

BYTEMITE


True.

I did hear about Fast and Furious.

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Wednesday, January 18, 2012 6:17 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!






Too bad British Petroleum steals all the oil in Alaska for export to Commie China, Japan and Mexico. This pipeline will just let BP steal more oil for export. Oil is now officially USA's #1 export. All the Iraqi oil is given to Israel and commie China. Gas was 20-cents/gallon in USA before Israel got USA to fight all its wars to stop 5-cent/gallon gas in the Middle East. Amurkins are sooo stoopido!

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Thursday, January 19, 2012 5:14 AM

CAVETROLL


How many pipelines are there in North America?

This many.

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Thursday, January 19, 2012 8:32 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Byte: Excellent, you have a good grasp of the issue. Solyndra was a mess people like Rap will bring up until the cows come home, just like all the other outdated or stuff proven wrong he grasps at. It was bad; hopefully it will be investigated eventually, tho' like with so many other things, probably not. I could make cracks about all the crony, semi-legal and downright illegal things Republican administrations have pulled, but why bother?

The Keystone pipeline is a unique issue; how many pipelines there are in America is irrelevant. I've provided the facts and yes, tar sands are a questionable issue too. Keystone is important for the Canadian company behind it, and it's being touted as things it's not by those who want it to go through, those are the facts. It WOULD raise our fuel prices, wouldn't provide the number of jobs they're claiming, and would have nothing to do with lessening our "dependency on foreign oil." Once again, remember that's a talking point that ignores the fact that ALL oil is sold on the open market, wherever it comes from.

This is a political battle more than anything. President Woos may well accept it in the end, which will make him more of an asshole to those who it impacts (and the rest of us around the country who understand the facts), but right now it's a matter of the Repubs tieing a demand for him to say yay or nay to it to the unemployment-extension bill, which is bullshit but the Dems had to cave to it (like all the other blackmail pulled since Obama got into office). Obama's reaction was to say "okay, you want a fast answer? Then here it is: No." Politics as usual; the rest is bullshit. Keystone is a bad idea, really bad in the consequences which would result from it. We'll see what actually happens as time goes on.



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Thursday, January 19, 2012 11:23 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:

Byte: Excellent, you have a good grasp of the issue. Solyndra was a mess people like Rap will bring up until the cows come home, just like all the other outdated or stuff proven wrong he grasps at. It was bad; hopefully it will be investigated eventually, tho' like with so many other things, probably not. I could make cracks about all the crony, semi-legal and downright illegal things Republican administrations have pulled, but why bother?



Byte USUALLY has a grasp on the issues, but it's telling that someone so aware was seemingly so in the dark on Solyndra, that the name didn't even ring a bell. And this isn't ' outdated' , by any stretch of the imagination. ( I'm guessing you're also referring to Fast and Furious , which is absolutely a huge deal, but because the MSM doesn't want to pile, on, we have yet ANOTHER hit piece on Newt's divorce. Talk about ancient history ! )

With Obama and his scandals, all the players are still in office, carrying on , as if nothing they did was in the least bit wrong or illegal. THAT'S why it's so important, but never mind that, right ? We have to vilify Mitt Romney, and all the MILLIONS OF $'s he EARNED, and how EVIL rich he is.

Never mind that nothing like this treatment was afforded John Kerry ( Democrat ) who married into even MORE money than Romney earned. Kerry, Gore, Clinton...never mind how much $ THEY have, right ? It's only evil, rich,, white Republicans who deserve the scrutiny and presumption of guilt, first, by the MSM.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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