REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Scientist Paid by American Thinktank to undermine Climate Change

POSTED BY: MAGONSDAUGHTER
UPDATED: Sunday, February 19, 2012 08:19
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Wednesday, February 15, 2012 7:50 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Scientist denies he is mouthpiece of US climate-sceptic think tank
Ben Cubby
February 16, 2012

Clarification: This story was updated when The Heartland Institute issued this statement.

A PROMINENT Australian scientist has rejected as offensive any suggestion he is doing the bidding of a US climate-sceptic think tank that is paying him a monthly fee.

Confidential documents leaked from inside The Heartland Institute, a wealthy think tank based in Chicago and Washington, detail strategy and funding for an array of activities designed to spread doubt about climate change science, paid for by companies that have a financial interest in continuing to release greenhouse gases without government interference.

The think tank has now issued a statement saying the strategy and budget documents had been stolen, and claiming one of them was faked.

"The stolen documents were obtained by an unknown person who fraudulently assumed the identity of a Heartland board member and persuaded a staff member here to “re-send” board materials to a new email address," the Heartland Institute said in a statement this morning.

Among the documents that Heartland does not claim to be faked, is a budget showing payments to selected scientists.

One of the recipients of funding is Professor Bob Carter of James Cook University, a geologist and marine researcher who spoke at the "convoys of no confidence" protests against the carbon price last year alongside the Opposition Leader, Tony Abbott, and writes columns for News Ltd newspapers.

The documents show Professor Carter receives a "monthly payment" of $US1667 ($1550) as part of a program to pay "high-profile individuals who regularly and publicly counter the alarmist [anthropogenic global warming] message".

Professor Carter did not deny he was being paid by The Heartland Institute, but would not confirm the amount, or if the think tank expected anything in return for its money.

"That suggestion is silly and offensive - a kindergarten level argument," Professor Carter told the Herald.

"Institutions or organisations simply pay for services rendered - in the same way that an architect is paid for their work, so are scientists," he said. "What they may make any payment to me for, I'm not discussing with anybody outside of my family."

Altogether, more than $US20 million had been spent funding and co-ordinating the activities of climate sceptics and bloggers since 2007, the documents suggest.

Other cash recipients include Anthony Watts, the leading US climate sceptic blogger, who is to receive $US90,000 for his work this year. Programs slated for funding include new curriculum modules that teach science from a climate-sceptic perspective, to be sent to US schools.

The documents also set out some of the strategies that the Heartland Institute says it will pursue this year, one of which is a campaign to convince people that hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, for gas is safe and beneficial.

The plan says that, in 2010 and 2011, environmentalists "invented charges that fracking poses environmental and safety risks. The liberal media has uncritically reported these charges as though they were scientifically based, leading to pressure on national and state elected officials to ban or regulate the use of fracking".

This year, the document says Heartland would "approach dozens of companies and trade associations that are actively seeking allies in this battle."

The organisation's funding comes from 1800 donors, including many manufacturing and resources businesses, and also drug companies.

One anonymous donor has given a staggering $US8.6 million to the think tank since 2007.

The documents were first published on a Canadian website, DeSmogBlog, which monitors the public relations efforts by some industry groups to discredit climate change science.

"An important message here is for the media to learn how to recognise this co-ordinated attack on science and to see through the PR pollution that Heartland and its network creates to cast doubt on climate change," said the website's executive director, Brendan DeMelle.

In its statement, the Heartland Institute apologised to its donors for allowing their identities to be revealed, and asked news organisations to stop linking to them.

"The individuals who have commented so far on these documents did not wait for Heartland to confirm or deny the authenticity of the documents," its statement said.

In fact the Herald sought comment from the Heartland Institute about the content and veracity of the documents yesterday, eight hours before the newspaper's deadline, and received no comment. Written questions sent to all 14 of the Heartland board members at 12.30pm yesterday are also yet to receive a response from the organisation.

The DeSmogBlog has issued a statement about the claim that one of the documents may have been faked.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/environment/climate-change/scientist-denies-h
e-is-mouthpiece-of-us-climatesceptic-think-tank-20120215-1t6yi.html#ixzz1mWMWw3Z2

see online article for link to updates.

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Wednesday, February 15, 2012 9:30 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Oh the age old practice of bribery, not a pretty thing. Happens a lot though.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, February 16, 2012 3:07 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Professor Carter did not deny he was being paid by The Heartland Institute, but would not confirm the amount, or if the think tank expected anything in return for its money.

"That suggestion is silly and offensive - a kindergarten level argument," Professor Carter told the Herald.



Soooooo... is it "welfare", then? Money for nothin'? If he says he's being paid more than $1500/month by them, but NOT expected to do anything in return for that money, who's really being silly and offensive?

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Thursday, February 16, 2012 3:45 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Agents in the govt are funding mouthpieces FOR global warming, so even if this is true, so what ?

Man made global warming is purely political, and not science. It's as Hugo Chavez said, to redistribute the wealth and to destroy capitalism. Don't come at me because HE said it, blame Hugo for " keeping it real. "



"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot help the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer. You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves. - Someone.

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Thursday, February 16, 2012 5:33 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

Almost all science is bought with money, and almost all money comes with an agenda behind it.

We can only hope that the scientific product can be analyzed for its merits by the wide scientific community, and judged more or less rationally in the end.

I think that if science had to be clean before we used it, we'd be living in caves.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner


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Thursday, February 16, 2012 5:36 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Who bought Galileo ?




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, February 16, 2012 5:53 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Who bought Galileo ?




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "


Hello,

Cosimo II de' Medici, Grand Duke of Tuscany, among other patrons. He named some of his discoveries after the fellow and members of his family, in thanks for their support.

We later re-named them after their discoverer.

--Anthony

ETA: I found a more complete listing:

Galileo's Patrons

Duke of Mantua
Medici Family
Paolo Sarpi
Urban VIII
Federico Cesi




_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner


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Thursday, February 16, 2012 6:03 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


And what were their motivations ?

How can we be sure the Earth really does go around the Sun, as he claims? Maybe he's just telling us that's what he found, to appease his financial backers.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, February 16, 2012 6:06 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
And what were their motivations ?

How can we be sure the Earth really does go around the Sun, as he claims? Maybe he's just telling us that's what he found, to appease his financial backers.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "


Hello,

Their motivations were manifold. And often their support would shift when something uncomfortable was proposed or pursued.

I already answered your other question.

"We can only hope that the scientific product can be analyzed for its merits by the wide scientific community, and judged more or less rationally in the end."

--Anthony



_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner


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Thursday, February 16, 2012 6:18 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


It's helpful to know that the few scientists who do deny climate change are being paid for it.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Thursday, February 16, 2012 6:33 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
It's helpful to know that the few scientists who do deny climate change are being paid for it.

It's not personal. It's just war.


As are those who promote global warming, who are being paid with tax payer's money.

And it's more than " a few " who have become skeptical. Thankfully.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, February 16, 2012 7:26 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


One would have thought that more of these scientists (such a mercenary profession) would've become skeptical - seeing that there's such good money in it.

It's a puzzle.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Thursday, February 16, 2012 7:34 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Yes, KPO, and it's not surprising. I'm not about to argue the issue with AlternateUniverseRap; he'll deny it right up to the time it kills him and it's only bait anyway. Thankfully scientists began questioning about climate change before ANYONE with an agenda paid 'em, so they got a head start.

Amusing, isn't it, that it's possible to snark that Galelio was right despite having patrons, yet immediately deny climate change because it MIGHT have patrons, while backing those scientists proven to have patrons with an agenda...

Whether you believe in climate change or not, the simple fact is we need alternative, cleaner, forms of energy. That SHOULD be undebatable at this point, but of course it won't be, until it's too late, probably. It's also amusing that those who have the most to gain by denying climate change are also the biggest, most monied interests in the world: gas, coal, etc. There isn't enough money OUTSIDE them to fund belief in climate change, yet nearly every country in the world acknowledges it, despite all the money spent to denounce it. Thank goodness.



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Thursday, February 16, 2012 8:53 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:


Man made global warming is purely political, and not science. It's as Hugo Chavez said, to redistribute the wealth and to destroy capitalism. Don't come at me because HE said it, blame Hugo for " keeping it real. "


So you agree with Chavez, then, that this guy is engaging in wealth redistribution (to himself, looks like) for purely political reasons (to destroy capitalism), and his position has nothing to do with science.

Glad we finally agree on this!

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Thursday, February 16, 2012 9:06 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


"Whether you believe in climate change or not, the simple fact is we need alternative, cleaner, forms of energy. That SHOULD be undebatable at this point,"

Hello,

yes!

I have said often that climate change is not important right now, and that climate change advocates are usually pushing the wrong buttons.

What is important is that we have cheaper, cleaner, renewable energy - a merit in itself. If that helps the temperature of the planet, great. But that's not why I want it. I want it for personally selfish reasons. I want to be able to get 'free' energy. I want to get off the grid and become independent of the system to some degree. And I want to be healthy enough to enjoy it all. It's all about me, me, me, my wallet and my health and my freedom. Greed is Good. ;-)

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner


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Thursday, February 16, 2012 9:12 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I feel otherwise. I do believe in it, so I want us to get better energy sources because I believe if we don't do it fast enough, it won't matter. It may already be too late. Getting on cleaner energy should be the goal, but for me doing it SOON enough that we have a hope of survival is the most important thing. And my hopes are for the whole world, because it won't matter to me personally, since I won't live long enough (most likely) to see what's coming.

Gee, maybe I don't think I'm so "special" (to quote someone else) if it's so important to me to see humanity saved even tho' it won't impact me personally and I can go on using as much dirty energy as I want 'cuz I won't live to see the result...



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Thursday, February 16, 2012 9:22 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:

Yes, KPO, and it's not surprising. I'm not about to argue the issue with AlternateUniverseRap; he'll deny it right up to the time it kills him and it's only bait anyway. Thankfully scientists began questioning about climate change before ANYONE with an agenda paid 'em, so they got a head start.




You're wrong, Niki. This 'Silent Spring' assault on Western capitalistic culture has been ongoing for DECADES. Before it was climate change, before it was was global warming, the very same folks with the exact same agenda were trying to sell it as ' global cooling', because of all the industrial pollution.

Same song, just a different verse.


Niki, who has bigger, deeper pockets? Private organizations, or govts ? It's clear that when it comes to funding, resources and the ability to get results to print and widely dispersed, that govts have the upper hand here, and that's where the money is to be found.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, February 16, 2012 9:55 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


"I feel otherwise. I do believe in it, so I want us to get better energy sources because I believe if we don't do it fast enough, it won't matter."

Hello,

Oh, no. You're turning back down the wrong path.

If you want something done quickly, and by everyone, then shouting "The Sky Is Falling!" isn't the right tactic. Even if the sky IS falling. Especially if the sky is falling. People will argue about the sky falling till the cows come home. There's little arguing with free, clean energy and independence.

Saving money on energy, taking a deep breath of life, and getting freedom from those who would control you is awesome.

You can sell me on that right now, or we can quibble about the fate of the earth for 20 years.

Do you want to save the Earth, or do you want to be Right?

If your goal is saving the Earth, you will 'sell it' to people based on their selfish nature, and let their greed hasten the change you want to see.

The problem with environmentalists is that they have been fighting against greed for so long, they've forgotten how greed can work in their favor.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner


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Thursday, February 16, 2012 10:10 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:
If your goal is saving the Earth, you will 'sell it' to people based on their selfish nature, and let their greed hasten the change you want to see.
THAT's already happening...if it's not where you are, around here at least ads on TV and radio about saving money with alternative energy are all OVER the place!

I can only discuss it from my own beliefs, I have little effect on others. It's just how I FEEL, there's nothing I can do about it personally. Those are two different issues.



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Thursday, February 16, 2012 10:38 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Electric cars produce more pollution than gas powered cars.

How is THAT helping save the planet ?


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, February 16, 2012 11:13 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:
Electric cars produce more pollution than gas powered cars.


Only if the energy on the grid being used to recharge them is coal.

Also, that study came out of University of Tennessee, but took data from 34 cities in China.

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Thursday, February 16, 2012 11:45 AM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


I've always assumed the AU stood for Alternate Universe, that's what I've always seen those letters used for, that or gold on the periodic table.

Niki, I agree that we should be getting cleaner and better ways to use energy and have what we need, I hope that it will move faster soon.

But hybrids better make enough noise or else.

I do find it odd to think that someone won't agknowledge that the climate is changing, we all know that, what people disagree on is why and what we can, or can't, do about it. I think that either way we should all be interested in keeping the earth clean, its good for everyone in the long run no matter what you think about climate change's causes.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, February 16, 2012 6:58 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
I've always assumed the AU stood for Alternate Universe, that's what I've always seen those letters used for, that or gold on the periodic table.


AU stands for lots of things, never once considered 'alternate universe'.

Quote:

I do find it odd to think that someone won't agknowledge that the climate is changing, we all know that, what people disagree on is why and what we can, or can't, do about it. I think that either way we should all be interested in keeping the earth clean, its good for everyone in the long run no matter what you think about climate change's causes.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya



The climate is always changing,Ri, and that's the point. Anyone who knows about this planet knows climates fluxuates between much warmer to much colder.over 100 of thousands and millions of years. But the issue of man CAUSED changes in global climate is beyond debatable and are nothing less than laughable.

And no one wants dirty air or water. But you can't legislate new technology.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, February 17, 2012 5:25 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
But the issue of man CAUSED changes in global climate is beyond debatable
You got that part absolutely correct.

In about 10 years, even the most brain-dead will have to acknowledge that not only is climate change happening, it is also inimical to our existence. Except rappy and others in the AU, because to them reality is just another TV show.

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Friday, February 17, 2012 5:44 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


5 years, 10, 25, 100... pull any # out of hat you'd like Sig. Man's impact on the global climate is nil.




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Saturday, February 18, 2012 7:40 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I can predict all I want, and I can even be correct... and I have done so... but FOR YOU it won't matter. Because whatever happens, whether Greenland melts or the economy nosedives or it turns out there are no WMD in Iraq you will explain away anything that doesn't fit your worldview, no matter how evident. I have already put your brain pretty much into the category of "waste of oxygen".

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Saturday, February 18, 2012 7:50 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Quote:
SignyM wrote:
Saturday, February 18, 2012 07:40
I can predict all I want, and I can even be correct... and I have done so...


Sylvia Browne just called. She wants her shtick back.




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Saturday, February 18, 2012 8:53 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


You think "predictions" have to do with astrology? SCIENCE is the business of making predictions based on fact. You wouldn't know anything about that, would you?

And you? What do YOU do here? All you do is defend positions and ideas that have long been abandoned, even by the people who first promulgated them. Say, how does it feel to be the last man still saying "Iraqi weapons of mass destruction constituted an existential threat to the USA" even after Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld quietly backed away from the cause? Feel like you've been left holding the bag? Defending an empty fort?

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Saturday, February 18, 2012 9:04 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Sig,

You're funny when you're ...well, when you're YOU!


But who the hell are YOU to question what I or anyone who comes here does, or why we're here ? What do I DO here ? I'm a Firefly fan, who is voicing my own opinions on real world events. Don't like it ? Too bad.




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Saturday, February 18, 2012 12:25 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Nobody cares what you have to say except Geezer and Whozit.

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Saturday, February 18, 2012 1:18 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Not entirely true - I tend to view the crazy misguided twerp in much the fashion of a coal mines canary, when he starts making any kinda sense, there's something seriously wrong.


-F

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Saturday, February 18, 2012 1:42 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Oh, I use him to keep track of what's going on in rightwingnut world.

He put me on to Ed Schultz with his rantings. I figured if the rightwingnut world is attacking there must be a reason. Turns out Ed is the most popular and successful of the liberal TV hosts, including that wunderkind Rachel Maddow. And Ed makes a lot of sense. So thanks to the rightwingnut world attacking Ed for being successful, and little Rappy mindlessly channeling them, I now have a cool new source to track.


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Saturday, February 18, 2012 3:30 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


By right wing nut, you mean average, real Americans. Got it.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Saturday, February 18, 2012 3:48 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


As opposed to "unreal" Americans? What do you think we are, apparitions or something?

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Saturday, February 18, 2012 7:46 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Yes, yes, I am just a figment of your imagination Rappy, the ghost of conscience past, rattling my chains and crying woe unto thee...

Either way ya look at it, you've got screws loose.

-F

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Saturday, February 18, 2012 8:05 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
By right wing nut, you mean average, real Americans. Got it.


Now you are just being mean...to average, real Americans ;)

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Sunday, February 19, 2012 4:15 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:


Either way ya look at it, you've got screws loose.

-F



Look in the mirror, when you say that.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, February 19, 2012 7:00 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I see Alt.Univ. has managed to threadjack the subject off onto himself again...sigh...

I've never liked Schultz much...to me he was just a replacemnt for Olbermann, without the humor. He rants. I'm not surprised he's popular; extremists generally are among their base, but he's not for me. I just this morning learned something interesting. Jim turned me on to a couple of Sunday morning shows on MSNBC where he says they're smart, debate things with smart people on the other side, and get into these partisan wars less...THIS I gotta check out! It's what I yearn for; smart people debating with facts who are able to talk to one another without just parroting the talking points on EITHER side. I usually take the dogs out at that time, and almost never watch the news or politics before noon it's not good for the digestion ;o), and am not fond of watching things on computers, so hopefully On Demand has 'em...if not, I may actually stay home Sunday mornings to try them out. What a breath of fresh air, if he's right!



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Sunday, February 19, 2012 7:02 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


So Niki, when folks go 'off topic' and direct comments towards me, and I respond, I'M the one doing the thread jacking ?

Really?


Wow.


FYI - It was Sig, not I, who took the thread into a personal attack direction. Keep that in mind, if you can.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, February 19, 2012 7:49 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Niki

Schultz is doing a great job tracking what's going on at the state level when it comes to people pushing back against their would-be Teabagger overlords.

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Sunday, February 19, 2012 8:17 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:
Man made global warming is purely political, and not science. It's as Hugo Chavez said, to redistribute the wealth and to destroy capitalism.

As are those who promote global warming, who are being paid with tax payer's money.

This 'Silent Spring' assault on Western capitalistic culture has been ongoing for DECADES.

But the issue of man CAUSED changes in global climate is beyond debatable and are nothing less than laughable.

Man's impact on the global climate is nil.
When you make statements like these, intended to poke people into responding, the result will always be what you want...someone responding to refute them. Whether anyone goes after you or you go after them first is irrelevant.. You instigate, you come into virtually every thread and make statements of "fact" which are so over the top or downright lies that people can't ignore them. It's what you want, it's what you get. To pretend otherwise would be disingenuous, except that those of us who've been around for a while know your tactics, so we know they're actually quite deliberate.

It has nothing to do with "voicing" your own "opinions"; it's about snarking and lying. The FACT is that there are questions on both sides, nothing is proven thus far; that those who argue on the side of there being man-made climate change aren't all "paid with taxpayer money", climate change isn't about an assault on capitalism (?!) or to redistribute wealth (!), and the issue isn't laughable. You live in a black and white world and are adamant that it is the ONLY world. Ergo "Alternate Universe" is the perfect title for you; in your entire world, there is no room for grays nor any room for anything you espouse to be ANYTHING other than the final say. Your cries of being picked on are what's laughable; you give far worse consistently than you get. Virtually every post you write is directed "personally" at anyone who disagrees with you, and specifically at anyone who dares to have a progressive thought.



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Sunday, February 19, 2012 8:19 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Kiki, that's a point I will FREELY give you...I do sometimes watch him when, channel surfing, I catch him dealing with local or statewide stuff. He's definitely an activist in that arena, and I applaud him for it. I even put up with his one-sided rantings when it comes to state and local stuff, tho' I take him with a grain of salt nonetheless.



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