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REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS
Oklahoma follows Mississippi
Thursday, February 16, 2012 9:33 AM
NIKI2
Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...
Quote:Senate Bill 1433 has Oklahomans choosing sides. The measure, which states that life starts at conception, passed a committee this week with a 5-2 vote. Sen. Constance Johnson says, “That to me is the greatest intrusion of government yet in the State of Oklahoma into people’s private lives.” ..... Bill 1433 states all unborn children should have protected interests in life, health and well-being. However, critics say it could impact families who use in-vitro fertilization, women who have miscarriages or those who take birth control. ..... Although Senate Bill 1433 made it out of its committee, it will have several more rounds of votes before it is either killed or made law. http://www.kfor.com/news/local/kfor-controversial-bill-draws-national-attention-20120212,0,1222083.story?hpt=po_bn6
Thursday, February 16, 2012 9:38 AM
AURAPTOR
America loves a winner!
Quote:...all unborn children should have protected interests in life, health and well-being.
Thursday, February 16, 2012 10:16 AM
Quote:it could impact families who use in-vitro fertilization, women who have miscarriages or those who take birth control.
Thursday, February 16, 2012 10:19 AM
BYTEMITE
Thursday, February 16, 2012 10:27 AM
Thursday, February 16, 2012 10:33 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: You're not on your game today, little man.If it's already law, then why would they even bother do this? Obviously there's something more to it. Your argument fails completely.Quote:it could impact families who use in-vitro fertilization, women who have miscarriages or those who take birth control.Same as the attempt in Mississippi, with the same agenda. Way too easy.
Thursday, February 16, 2012 11:49 AM
RIONAEIRE
Beir bua agus beannacht
Thursday, February 16, 2012 11:58 AM
Thursday, February 16, 2012 12:57 PM
ANTHONYT
Freedom is Important because People are Important
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Quote:...all unborn children should have protected interests in life, health and well-being. How is this really an issue? There's already case law which clearly shows that the unborn can be viewed by the courts as a person , as in the case of a homicide of the mother. ( See Scott Peterson ) " I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "
Thursday, February 16, 2012 2:20 PM
Thursday, February 16, 2012 5:55 PM
FREMDFIRMA
Quote:WASHINGTON -- Three Democrats walked out of a House Oversight and Government Reform hearing on religious liberty and the birth control rule on Thursday to protest Chairman Darrell Issa's (R-Calif.) refusal to allow a progressive woman to testify in favor of the Obama administration's contraception rule. The morning panel at the hearing consisted exclusively of men from conservative religious organizations. "What I want to know is, where are the women?" Rep. Carolyn Maloney (D-N.Y.) asked Issa before walking out of the hearing after the first panel. "I look at this panel, and I don't see one single individual representing the tens of millions of women across the country who want and need insurance coverage for basic preventative health care services, including family planning. Where are the women?" Delegate Eleanor Holmes Norton (D-D.C.), told reporters in the hallway outside the hearing that she marched out because it was being conducted like an "autocratic regime." The other members who left were Maloney and Rep. Mike Quigley (D-Ill.). There are 10 witnesses testifying at Thursday's hearing. None of those individuals -- listed as testifying prior to hearing -- is in favor of the Obama administration's birth control rule, and few are women.
Friday, February 17, 2012 3:42 AM
GEEZER
Keep the Shiny side up
Quote:Sen. Johnson says the “Personhood Bill” is imbalanced because it doesn’t include a male's role in conception. She decided to write an Amendment, which has drawn as much controversy as the original bill. “The Amendment says, ‘Any action in which a man deposits his sperm anywhere other than a woman’s vagina would be considered a violation of the Personhood statute,” Sen. Johnson says.
Friday, February 17, 2012 3:52 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Geezer: Left out the best part. Quote: “The Amendment says, ‘Any action in which a man deposits his sperm anywhere other than a woman’s vagina would be considered a violation of the Personhood statute,” Sen. Johnson says.
Quote: “The Amendment says, ‘Any action in which a man deposits his sperm anywhere other than a woman’s vagina would be considered a violation of the Personhood statute,” Sen. Johnson says.
Friday, February 17, 2012 4:45 AM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Wow... our tax dollars at work.
Friday, February 17, 2012 5:32 AM
Friday, February 17, 2012 6:08 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: Amen Geezer. What was that about "smaller government" again? I must have missed something....
Friday, February 17, 2012 7:15 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Geezer: Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Wow... our tax dollars at work. My exact thought about the original 'Life begins at conception' legislation. "Keep the Shiny side up"
Friday, February 17, 2012 7:23 AM
Quote:Apparently, government is so small it can crawl up inside your womb
Sunday, February 19, 2012 7:19 PM
Sunday, February 19, 2012 11:03 PM
Monday, February 20, 2012 1:10 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: ...score one more for the patriarchal society!
Monday, February 20, 2012 5:13 AM
Quote:Originally posted by AnthonyT: Apparently, government is so small it can crawl up inside your womb.
Quote:WASHINGTON - A Virginia bill on track to become law would require women considering an abortion to have access to images of their unborn fetus, even if that means the doctor would have to perform the ultrasound from within the womb. Virginia House Bill 462, and a similar bill in the state Senate, would require doctors to perform a fetal ultrasound, which the bill says should be made a standard practice, include the dimensions of the fetus and accurately portray its external features and internal organs, if possible. Pro-choice groups criticize the legislation for requiring a "transvaginal ultrasound" in most cases, while supporters of the bill believe the information it garners is essential for women deciding whether to have an abortion.
Monday, February 20, 2012 6:17 AM
Quote:Many bloggers and commentators have expressed outrage over the decision by Virginia to require ultrasound examination, possibly transvaginal ultrasound, prior to women obtaining an abortion. From Bill Maher to Dahlia Lithwick people are outraged and have even suggested that it should be considered rape to force women to undergo vaginal examination by ultrasound prior to receiving abortion. Worse, it's clear from statements like this one by delegate Todd Gilbert, that there isn't a medical concern related to this intervention. It's simply designed to humiliate women and interfere with the doctor patient relationship with exclusively anti-abortion motivations:Quote:"the vast majority of these cases [abortion] are matters of lifestyle convenience." And, ??"We think in matters of lifestyle convenience and in other matters that it is right and proper for a woman to be fully informed about what she is doing.This just reflects how stupid these guys are, because anyone with half a brain could come up superficially plausible defense of the statute from grounds of medical safety. They're just too brainless to do so and clearly are just trying to interfere with women and their doctors as they try to make a difficult decision. So, what Virginia has done has legislated a requirement for an unnecessary medical procedure, unsupported by any professional medical association, on a specific subpopulation of women. Given the history of forced sterilization in Virginia, you'd think they'd be more sensitive on this issue. This is the state where Buck v Bell brought the issue of forced medical procedures to light. This statute cannot, therefore, stand on either medical ethical or constitutional grounds. The state legislature can not force me or any other physician to perform an unnecessary, and therefore unethical, medical procedure. The state legislature can not pick on a subpopulation of citizens and force them to receive an unnecessary medical procedure. I don't think this law will stand, but it once again will require a legal fight, waste of time and resources, and all of this once again in a effort by governmental busybodies to interfere in women's health decisions in a punitive fashion. The Republicans need to watch out. This is just another indication of a the size of the assault on women's reproductive rights, and if they keep pushing, they're going to see what a mistake it is to piss off 51% of the population. **Update: I also noticed from Lithwick's article Virginia has enacted a personhood law saying life begins at conception. More idiocy. This is like Indiana legislating the value of pi = 3. It is unscientific and illogical. Life does not begin. It is continuous. There is no dead state between parents and offspring. Sperm are alive, eggs are alive, the fusion of the two is alive. Instead they are legislating what constitutes life that is important, or more likely "ensouled". As a fundamentally philosophic/religious and ultimately arbitrary point, government has no business legislating such a thing. But legislating that life has a "beginning" is biologically ignorant. http://scienceblogs.com/denialism/2012/02/forcing_doctors_to_perform_unn.php]
Quote:"the vast majority of these cases [abortion] are matters of lifestyle convenience." And, ??"We think in matters of lifestyle convenience and in other matters that it is right and proper for a woman to be fully informed about what she is doing.
Monday, February 20, 2012 6:45 AM
Quote:Texas implements forced ultrasound abortion law The bullying of women and choice continues with more anti abortion legislation. Texas has become the first state to have the strictest of laws regarding ultrasounds before abortion. On hold since October of 2011 while it cleared legal hurdles, the sonogram law was upheld by U.S. District Judge Sam Sparks recently and has already gone into effect. While forced to allow the law, Judge Sparks theorizes the law violates the First Amendment rights of physicians. Doctors had sued to block the law citing that the law forces them to perform a procedure that is not medically necessary or that women don’t wish to have. Texas Department of State Health Services has posted guidelines for abortion providers. Any abortion providers that fail to comply with the new guidelines face penalties of up to $1,000 per violation per day. The providers will be subject to inspections to insure the new rules are followed. Doctors who fail to comply with the law could lose their medical license, be charged with a misdemeanor and face fines of up to $10,000. Sadly, the biggest toll will be on the women themselves. The new guidelines are: - At least 24 hours before performing an abortion, doctors must show the woman the sonogram image. The patient has the option of looking away from the screen. - While showing the sonogram image the doctor must describe to the patient the fetuses features and stages of development. - Doctors must also play the fetal heartbeat aloud to the patient.
Quote:The most extreme ultrasound restriction in the country, the law prohibits a woman from getting an abortion unless she first has an ultrasound, is shown the ultrasound image and listens to her doctor describe the image in detail.
Quote:January 10, 2012: The 5th U.S. Circuit Court Of Appeals is totally down with forcing doctors to tell women needless and harmful lies about consequences of abortion that don’t exist and have not been scientifically proven. They’ve ruled that Texas can enforce its forced trans-vaginal sonogram bill while it’s being challenged in court. (A similar law is being challenged in Oklahoma, but that state has not been allowed to enforce it while it winds its way through the court system.)
Quote:February 13, 2009 12:58 PM Antiabortion Fanatics' New Invasive Attack: The Forced Ultrasound You have to give members of the religious right credit for one thing: No matter how resoundingly voters whack them into oblivion, they come right back fighting. To clarify, I'm not talking about average, conservative, pro-life voters. I'm talking about fanatics and activists. Exhibit A: "LINCOLN, Neb. (AP)--Abortion foes have a new tactic: The hope that women can't look away. Lawmakers in 11 states are considering bills that would offer or require ultrasounds before a woman gets an abortion. The most stringent are proposed laws in Nebraska, Indiana and Texas, which would require a doctor show the ultrasound image of the fetus to the woman, despite legal challenges to a similar measure in Oklahoma. A similar bill was proposed in Wyoming but it was defeated in a state House committee before reaching the floor."
Quote:Many women are upset because by most definitions, forcing a woman to have something put inside her vagina against her will and for no reason is, uh, rape. But Republicans state legislators don't see what the fuss is about. After all, those sluts already consented to be penetrated— when they got pregnant. Are you fucking kidding me?
Quote:Slate's Dahlia Litwick unloads on SB484, explaining that lawmakers behind the legislation don't see what the big fucking deal is with forcing women to be penetrated by doctor as a prerequisite for pregnancy termination. After all, they consented to have sex, right? And isn't consenting to have sex once akin to consenting to have whatthefuckever put into your vagina? That's a jaw-droppingly insensitive and dangerous statement, but more than one Virginia delegate has actually said something to that effect. Delegate Kathy J. Byron, for example, said "if we want to talk about invasiveness, there's nothing more invasive than the procedure that she is about to have." As Litwick points out, reading between the lines leads us to believe that Byron thinks that abortion involves inserting things into a woman's vagina and a woman is consenting to an abortion, she must therefore be consenting to have a doctor put any old thing into her vagina. An ultrasound wand. A Wii controller. A stethoscope! During the floor debate on Tuesday, Del. C. Todd Gilbert announced that "in the vast majority of these cases, these [abortions] are matters of lifestyle convenience." Virginia Democrat Del. David Englin, who opposes the bill, has said Gilbert's statement "is in line with previous Republican comments on the issue," recalling one conversation with a GOP lawmaker who told him that women had already made the decision to be "vaginally penetrated when they got pregnant."Oh, man, I could go on all DAY, I'm so sickened by this. It's a new low in women's rights to their own bodies; these maniacs go too far! Okay, I'll shut up now. :o(
Monday, February 20, 2012 3:12 PM
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