REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Santorum feeds more red meat insanity

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Thursday, February 23, 2012 13:10
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Monday, February 20, 2012 8:15 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

The government shouldn't make health care providers fully cover prenatal tests like amniocentesis, which can determine the possibility of Down syndrome or other fetal problems, Republican presidential hopeful Rick Santorum said Sunday.

Santorum, an outspoken opponent of abortion rights, told the CBS News program "Face the Nation" on Sunday that amniocentesis "more often than not" results in abortion.

"People have the right to do it, but to have the government force people to provide it free, to me, is a bit loaded," he said. He said Saturday at an appearance in Ohio that the law was intended to increase abortions and reduce overall health care costs.

"One of the mandates is they require free prenatal testing in every insurance policy in America," Santorum, a conservative Roman Catholic, told a Christian Alliance luncheon in Columbus. "Why? Because it saves money in health care. Why? Because free prenatal testing ends up in more abortions and therefore less care that has to be done, because we cull the ranks of the disabled in our society."

He added that the requirement was "another hidden message as to what President Obama thinks of those who are less able." (what an INCREDIBLE reach!)

The White House referred CNN to Obama's re-election campaign for comment, and campaign spokeswoman Lis Smith called Santorum's remarks "the latest in a long string of unfortunate comments in the race to the bottom that the Republican presidential primary has become."

"Prenatal screenings are essential to promote the health of both the mother and baby and to ensure safe deliveries," Smith said. "These misinformed and dangerous comments reinforce why women cannot trust any of the Republican candidates for president."

On Sunday, Santorum mentioned his own experience with this 3-year-old daughter Isabella, who has Trisomy 18, a chromosome disorder that often results in stillbirths or early childhood death. He said prenatal testing showed the problem, and doctors recommend abortion in virtually all cases.

Such a recommendation is common when any problem is detected through amniocentesis, said Santorum, who added that in such cases "we know that 90% of Down syndrome children are aborted."

Some studies since the late 1990s do suggest a high percentage of women terminate their pregnancies after receiving a Down syndrome diagnosis, with one British study putting the figure as high as 92 percent. A 2005 study of nearly 1,100 pregnant women found 76% would consider an abortion if tests indicated their child would be born with Down syndrome.

Now considered the main conservative challenger to the more moderate Mitt Romney, Santorum has shed a more understated demeanor to challenge both Romney and Obama as the Republican campaign heads toward a series of key primaries in coming weeks, including Super Tuesday on March 6.

He continued throwing out the cultural red meat for primary voters Sunday night, telling a rally at a Georgia church that Obama was intent on starting a cultural war. As the audience roared with applause, he called on the country to build a foundation that will "defend the church, defend the family, defend the nonprofit community, defend them from a government that wants to weaken them."

His attack on insurance coverage for prenatal testing was the latest in a series of controversial comments he has made since surging to the top tier of polls in the Republican presidential race. He also found himself defending other Saturday comments regarding Obama's religion, appearing to question the president's adherence to Bible-based Christian theology.

Santorum said Saturday the president was not motivated by concerns for ordinary Americans but by "some phony ideal, some phony theology.

"Oh, not a theology based on the Bible, a different theology. But no less a theology," he said.

Asked about those remarks on CBS, Santorum said he was referring to Obama's energy policies, which he said favored what he called radical environmentalism. Asked specifically if he was questioning Obama's Christian beliefs, Santorum said: "I wasn't suggesting the president is not a Christian. I accept the fact the president is a Christian."

Santorum's comments may appeal to some Republican voters who have questioned Obama's faith before, or others who saw the administration's recent contraception mandate as an overreach. Last month, Santorum was criticized by some for not correcting a voter who called the president a Muslim when she stood up to ask a question at one of his campaign town halls.

"These are the questions that I think Republicans can unite on," (Republican Gov. Mitch)Daniels said. "They do have to be framed, as they really are, as the defense of individual freedom against the right now limitless power of the state." http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/19/politics/santorum-prenatal-testing/index
.html?hpt=hp_bn3

That last one is both amusing and telling. Having to be "framed" is the crux of it, and "defense of individual freedom" is a laugh; what about the individual freedom of the women involved, both in contraception and abortion? Those, of course, aren't "individual freedoms" to the extreme right!

Not to mention that of COURSE Santorum's use of the word "theology" was intentional. The English language has such a myriad choice of verbiage, with subtle differences in how they are internalized, that his choosing to use "theology" rather than any of the other obvious choices is nothing but the usual code we've seen being exhibited over and over.

He could have chosen philosophy, perspective, point of view, mindset, theory, notion, stance, if he didn't want what he was saying to be "understood" by the right wingers as what he actually meant, or he could have used belief or doctrine, which would have been somewhat less subtle code, and he wouldn't have been as obvious as using credo, creed, or dogma. English is wonderfully diverse, and politicians know EXACTLY how to use it to achieve the results they seek. All politicians do it, and then of course throw up their hands in shock and explain they never intended it to be taken that way (bullshit).

He later showed himself quite capable of using words that don't have visceral reactions:
Quote:

"It doesn't fit his pattern of trying to drive down consumption, trying to drive up your cost of transportation to accomplish his political science goal of reducing carbon dioxide," he said.
....
Santorum told reporters that the message he was trying to convey was that the president merely holds “different moral values.”

“You may want to call it a theology, you may want to call it secular values,” he said. “Whatever you want to call it. . . it is a different set of moral values that they are imposing on people who have a constitutional right to have their own values within the church.”

He said Obama has reached a “low in this country’s history of oppressing religious freedom that we have never seen before.” (which is absolutely astonishing "red-meat" language!)
.....
“You can call it a theology, you can call it a moral code, you can call it a world view,” he said. “They want to impose [that] on everybody else while they insist and complain that somehow or another people of Judeo Christian faith are intolerant of their new moral code.”

So why didn't he say "secular values" or "moral values" or "world view" initially? We all know why:
Quote:

Santorum's comments may strike certain chords with some Republican voters who have questioned Obama's faith before
Bingo!

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Monday, February 20, 2012 12:20 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



This from the person who threw a hissy over how the media treated her messiah, just a couple of days ago ?


Crassic.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, February 20, 2012 12:37 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Nothing except personal snark to contribute?

As usual.

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Monday, February 20, 2012 12:48 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Nothing except personal snark to contribute?

As usual.



Hello,

You should not sell Mr. Raptor short. He is also mocking Asian accents.

--Anthony


_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner


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Monday, February 20, 2012 12:52 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Hey Anthony, don't go looking for a chink in my armor!




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, February 21, 2012 8:29 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


There you go, Kiki/Anthony; a picture-perfect example of the Alt.Univ. TROLLING for responses. He knows perfectly well what his words will do, that what he's saying is a flat-out lie, but mayyyybeeee it will get someone's attention. He's managed to get a couple out of me recently, so why not? I've got to see to that...



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Tuesday, February 21, 2012 8:45 AM

BLUEHANDEDMENACE


Santorum was without a doubt speaking in code for his zealots/base. That much is clear as day.

I thought back in 2004 that the crop of dems trotted out would be the all-time saddest bunch of candidates for president I would ever see.

Kucinich? Sharpton? Dean? What a sideshow.

This group proved me waaaay wrong tho, thats for sure. I understand why Romney is up there, hes essentially been running since 06, and is the "Next-Up" that the GOP usually goes with, such as McCain in 08.

The rest of these guys? With the notable exception of Hunstman, who as the only reasonable choice never had a chance, I wouldnt elect these guys to student council.

Santorum is the epitome of a knuckle-dragging regressive who wants women to be seen and not heard, Newt is a gas-bag w legs, and Crazy Uncle Ron, well, hes.....Crazy Uncle Ron, and you better believe the GOP establishment is terrified of what he might say on the convention stage, since he will have too many delegates to keep off of it like they would hope.

Seriously, how could any woman vote Republican? These guys just had a CONGRESSIONAL HEARING on women's reproductive rights, and they got all sides of the debate involved, except for one group, must have been a simple oversight. No women at a congressional hearing on women's health. Classic.

Anyone who didnt catch the Daily Show bit on it last night, it was hy-larious. I highly recommend catching the re-air today.

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Tuesday, February 21, 2012 9:03 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:

what he's saying is a flat-out lie




Prove it, or shut the fuck up.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, February 21, 2012 9:08 AM

BLUEHANDEDMENACE


Now really, what are the odds that Niki will STFU??

And why should she? She has every right to call Bullshit on your false equivalancies.

I mean, she hardly needs to, they are obvious to anyone who pays attention over time, but especially when u bleat your nonsense in response to her posts, you have to expect a response, if we are living in the real world here (which with you certainly is debatable)

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Tuesday, February 21, 2012 9:10 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Nothing except personal snark to contribute?

As usual.



Yet he's the first to complain when others do it. Funny, that.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Tuesday, February 21, 2012 9:15 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by BlueHandedMenace:
Now really, what are the odds that Niki will STFU??

And why should she? She has every right to call Bullshit on your false equivalancies.

I mean, she hardly needs to, they are obvious to anyone who pays attention over time, but especially when u bleat your nonsense in response to her posts, you have to expect a response, if we are living in the real world here (which with you certainly is debatable)



She has the option of proving me a liar, which we all know she won't do either.

And she didn't refer to anything I said as 'false', but stated that I was a liar. Big difference. One can be wrong and not be a liar. Weird how some on the Left just can't / won't make that distinction.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, February 21, 2012 9:15 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:

what he's saying is a flat-out lie




Prove it, or shut the fuck up.




The RapTard is obviously showing us the civility he constantly whines about not recieving.

He's clearly sympathetic to the group who booed the Golden Rule.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Tuesday, February 21, 2012 9:17 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

She has the option of proving me a liar,



In this singular case - you have a point.

Because your initial comment was so devoid of actual content - it was impossible to even be a lie.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Tuesday, February 21, 2012 9:18 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:

The RapTard is obviously showing us the civility he constantly whines about not recieving.

He's clearly sympathetic to the group who booed the Golden Rule.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"



Pretty sure you've eliminated yourself from ANY civil discussion, ever.

And as for Niki, I don't know what burr has lodged itself under her saddle, but she's been increasingly irrational and fussy as of late.( More so than usual) Up until now, I've let most of her spewing of venom slide, but even I have limits. She's made bizarre claims and baseless accusations, and not once been honest enough to put up or shut up. I'm calling her out on it, is all.



" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, February 21, 2012 9:27 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Nothing except personal snark to contribute?

As usual.



Well, per the OP, the message being presented is dog squeeze.

Obama himself started this 'theology ' crap, when he compared himself and his policies to that of Jesus.

Quote:

The rich should pay more not only because

“I actually think that is going to make economic sense, but for me as a Christian, it also coincides with Jesus’s teaching that ‘for unto whom much is given, much shall be required,’”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0212/72363.html#ixzz1n2uZJtW0



A tired / lame trick the socialists have tried to use, claiming Jesus was really in line w/ Karl Marx, who clearly Obama idolizes.

So, with no snark , but offering a direct response ON TOPIC, this is more about the Left's attempt to mock and ridicule Santorum, for daring to stand up and question THE GREAT ONE.

And I have to agree w/ Rick on this one. Kudos to him.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, February 21, 2012 9:49 AM

STORYMARK


Its funny, watching Rappy try try try to falsly paint the left as those with religious feelings towards the Prez. Especially after his years of bending over backward to lap up anything Bush did.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Tuesday, February 21, 2012 9:57 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Pretty sure you've eliminated yourself from ANY civil discussion, ever.



Just with you, son, just with you.

Nice way to dodge your own hypocrisy and make it about me, though. A tried and true RapTactic.

Quote:

And as for Niki, I don't know what burr has lodged itself under her saddle, but she's been increasingly irrational and fussy as of late.( More so than usual) Up until now, I've let most of her spewing of venom slide, but even I have limits. She's made bizarre claims and baseless accusations, and not once been honest enough to put up or shut up. I'm calling her out on it, is all.



Wow. The irony and lack of self awareness is priceless.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Tuesday, February 21, 2012 10:02 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Its funny, watching Rappy try try try to falsly paint the left as those with religious feelings towards the Prez...



"I mean in a way Obama's standing above the country, above above the world, he's sort of God. " - Newsweek Editor , Evan Thomas.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, February 21, 2012 10:09 AM

STORYMARK


Right. One person. And you act like that is the entire left.

But paint the right with the actions of MANY, and you bitch endlessly.

How adorable.

Fuckin' maroon.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Tuesday, February 21, 2012 10:13 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Right. One person. And you act like that is the entire left.




ABC'S Terry Moran : "I like to say that, in some ways, Barack Obama is the first President since George Washington to be taking a step down into the Oval Office."

(For those who have forgotten, George Washington defeated the strongest military power in the world. Barack Obama was a community organizer.)

Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/scott-whitlock/2009/02/20/abcs-terry-mora
n-compares-visionary-obama-george-washington#ixzz1n36jsUdE



" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, February 21, 2012 10:15 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by BlueHandedMenace:
Santorum was without a doubt speaking in code for his zealots/base. That much is clear as day.


This.

Exactly this - once again, when you give your personhood over to someone elses political machine, anyone who knows the right buttons to push can make you dance on cue, or really wind you up just by manipulating them.

Did it never occur to anyone here why I use strange but specific and deliberate word choices when I TRY to wind certain people up ?

It works cause they've programmed themselves every bit as predictably as a machine, and GIGO applies even in a psychological sense, or even worse, exploiting it in much the same fashion as a computer virus, which is also done with much of the pre-programmed social consciousness in this country, hench the rise of the term "viral" to mean something which explodes in public consciousness when not planted there deliberately by TPTB and their mass-media cohorts.

One of the things which made Herman Cains visit here such a disaster was the collision of pre-programmed racism with pre-programmed loyalty in the tiny little brains of the hate-radio faithful, which was all they could scrape up to "show the flag" in a region which knows exactly WHICH political end is responsible for the place being a disaster - it was actually funny to watch in a tragic sort of way, as they tried to reconcile such mutally incompatible directives and wound up looking like robot-zombies in the middle of a breakdown.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Tuesday, February 21, 2012 2:06 PM

CAVETROLL


While I don't agree with the message they are sending, look at the positive side of the Republican candidates; at least two of them are telling the public exactly how they feel. No dancing, no evasion. They are telling it like they see it and when the media brings the heat back to them, well at least Santorum, the media has a blackout on Ron Paul, they are sticking to their beliefs.

I can respect the integrity it takes to keep true to your beliefs, even if I don't share in them.

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Tuesday, February 21, 2012 2:12 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


One can be wrong and not be a liar. Weird how some on the Left just can't / won't make that distinction.




Like when you asked if Obama is a "liar" (your word for him, not mine) for making a distinction between "foreign" and "domestic" oil?

Can he be wrong about it without being a "liar", in your view? Or are you saying you're one of those on "the Left" (just LOVE how you have to capitalize that; it assigns and importance to those on the left that they really haven't earned and don't deserve, but you feel that they really ARE that important, which tells us more about you than you'd like!) who just can't/won't make that distinction?

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Tuesday, February 21, 2012 2:30 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


kwickie.

I asked YOU the question. Why are you asking it back to me ? Why aren't you answering it ?


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, February 21, 2012 2:33 PM

OONJERAH



Quote BlueHandedMenace: "Santorum is the epitome of a knuckle-dragging regressive who wants women to be seen and not heard,"

Quote Auraptor: "And as for Niki, I don't know what burr has lodged itself under her saddle, but she's been increasingly
irrational and fussy as of late. ..."

A burr under the saddle hurts the horse/mule causing it to buck. Burr refers to mount, not rider.

BlueHandedMenace calls Santorum an ape and I laugh heartily.
Auraptor calls Niki a horse, and I am highly insulted.
Shows yah how I think.

We all know from HS debate class (or common sense) that insults directed at our philosophical opponents show a failure of
reason to support our views.


"All I suggest is a man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest" ~Paul Simon

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Tuesday, February 21, 2012 2:34 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
kwickie.

I asked YOU the question. Why are you asking it back to me ? Why aren't you answering it ?




Haven't you already answered it? You say someone can be wrong without being a liar; is that a mercy you'd not grant to others?

And clearly, there's no point in my answering it at all, since according to you I'm not worth your time. If no answer I give will suffice, because I'm not worth your time to even respond to, why should I answer in the first place? Wouldn't that be a waste of both our time?

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Tuesday, February 21, 2012 8:49 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Been having a lovely day...came back to turn off my computer and saw this. So I will respond:
Quote:

This from the person who threw a hissy over how the media treated her messiah, just a couple of days ago ?
The LieS:

You know perfectly well I didn't throw a "hissy", just as you know the thread in question was about Big Money in politics and how stupid it is that the MSM talks about "questions" regarding it, when it's already a well-known HUGE issue;

You also know perfectly well that Obama is NOTHING like my "messiah".

Both are flat-out, QUITE deliberate lies intended to provoke a response. Everyone knows this. And there, you got a response out of me; have fun with it.



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Tuesday, February 21, 2012 8:56 PM

OONJERAH



10 Outrageous Things Rick Santorum Has Said: =>
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/02/20/10-outrageous-things-
rick-santorum-has-said.html?obref=obinsite


He'd be a quite entertaining president.


"All I suggest is a man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest" ~Paul Simon

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Tuesday, February 21, 2012 8:58 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Story, doll...Alt.Univ. has a leeeetle drawer, you see. In that drawer are all the juicy (he thinks) tidbits he's picked up from FauxNews along the line. When he has nothing to say, he rustles around in that little drawer, and his fat, grubby fingers always find SOMETHING he can pull out to wave in the air and shout about.

The "he's a god" remark was in 2009; he's pulled it out so many times it must be downright ragged, but he'll keep pulling it out until it disintegrates.

Next up: Reverend Wright! (Hey, the Repub. candidates must have their own little drawer, they're pulling it out too!)

p.s. Know why Rap thinks I've been getting fussy (or whatever) lately? 'Cuz I've been making the mistake of RESPONDING to him some. Like I said, I gotta look to that...mockable, he is eminently, but to attempt actual communication...gawd, what was I thinking?



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Wednesday, February 22, 2012 3:34 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Santorum and the rest are taking politically suicidal positions on a number of issues. Being a Conservative doesn't mean one supports any of these trogladytic evangelical stances against women's freedom that are being tossed around lately. Obama must be laughing his ass off.









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Wednesday, February 22, 2012 4:30 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Latest Gallup poll results of GOP candidates ?

Women Prefer Santorum to Romney by 10-Point
Margin, Says Gallup"


CNSNews.com) - In a week when
much of the national media attention
on former Sen. Rick Santorum’s
presidential campaign focused on his
views on contraception, the Gallup tracking poll showed Santorum’s support among women increasing by
12 points, vaulting him into a 10-point
lead among women over former
Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney. In fact, Santorum’s support among
women in this latest Gallup poll is
stronger than his support among
men.

cnsnews.com/news/article/women-prefer-santorum-romney-10-point-margin-says-gallup

And Niki? You're fussy because you know I'm right. You might want to look to THAT!

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, February 22, 2012 6:05 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Story, doll...Alt.Univ. has a leeeetle drawer, you see. In that drawer are all the juicy (he thinks) tidbits he's picked up from FauxNews along the line. When he has nothing to say, he rustles around in that little drawer, and his fat, grubby fingers always find SOMETHING he can pull out to wave in the air and shout about.

The "he's a god" remark was in 2009; he's pulled it out so many times it must be downright ragged, but he'll keep pulling it out until it disintegrates.

Next up: Reverend Wright! (Hey, the Repub. candidates must have their own little drawer, they're pulling it out too!)

p.s. Know why Rap thinks I've been getting fussy (or whatever) lately? 'Cuz I've been making the mistake of RESPONDING to him some. Like I said, I gotta look to that...mockable, he is eminently, but to attempt actual communication...gawd, what was I thinking?





Oh, I know. I got bored with his repetetive tactics years before you even got here. Thats why I just make fun of his dumb ass so much.

It is amusing to see him calling you "fussy" for pointing out his bullshit. You can practically hear him shivering with the urge to use "uppity" all the time, too.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Wednesday, February 22, 2012 6:17 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

In other news, people in Hell prefer pitchforks to pokers by a three-to-one margin.

"Pokers are just so much easier to stick into unfortunate spaces," noted one commentator.

--Anthony



_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner


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Wednesday, February 22, 2012 6:42 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Well said, JS, and I'm so glad to hear someone who can speak good sense on the matter. Thank you.

Anthony...yer cute. Not as cute as you THINK you are , but cute.



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Wednesday, February 22, 2012 6:44 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

She has the option of proving me a liar, which we all know she won't do either.
One can be proven a liar only if the presumed liar has any sort notion of "true facts". But in rappy world there are no such things as facts, it's all kinda twisty and bendy, where there is no truth and there are no lies, just opinions and emotions.

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Wednesday, February 22, 2012 11:07 AM

OONJERAH



Quote Signym: "One can be proven a liar only if the presumed liar has any sort notion of 'true facts'. But in
rappy world there are no such things as facts, it's all kinda twisty and bendy, where there is no truth and
there are no lies, just opinions and emotions."

Now there's a clue!

My sis used to try to explain that to me, but I didn't quite get it.
She explained it in terms of levels of consciousness:
1. the need to survive
2. the need to reproduce
3. the need to control (self & others)
4. the need to belong, to love or be loved (dedication)
5. the need to communicate
1-4 are touchy feely, anima.
1 & 2 are seen in all animals.
1-5 are seen in social animals.

6. vision, the need to create.
6. is also reason and intellect. Cool objectivity.
7. higher consciousness.

She told me that some people have no intellect, never learn to reason. They cannot determine for themselves
what is factual and what is not. Indeed, they cannot distinguish between their learned moral concepts of right
and wrong and provable facts. (i.e. True/false, facts don't exist for them.) Chances are they will accept
someone else's reality (right/wrong) when they are young and may never change any of it. Their belief set is
closely tied to 1. the need to survive.
Whenever they disagree with someone about what is right & wrong, they have a powerful emotional need to Be
Right
, stand fast, and don't learn anything.
They are not problem solvers. They are fighters who may or may not enjoy the fight.
(Point made. Detailed essay unnecessary.)


"All I suggest is a man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest" ~Paul Simon

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Wednesday, February 22, 2012 10:54 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Santorum and the rest are taking politically suicidal positions on a number of issues. Being a Conservative doesn't mean one supports any of these trogladytic evangelical stances against women's freedom that are being tossed around lately. Obama must be laughing his ass off.


Indeed, and it upsets me the most that cause of this Obama and the Dems have no incentive to up their game and DO anything but coast on not-as-insane-as-them, which is a damn low bar to be setting you ask me.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Thursday, February 23, 2012 2:51 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


^^ What Frem said. There's nothing inspiring me to vote for Obama this November, but there's quite a bit inspiring me to vote AGAINST the GOP. I wish they'd bring better candidates, but clearly they don't want those. The stands they're taking on social issues seem a surefire way to turn solid control of both houses back to the Dems, without any clear mandate given them other than "DON'T BE LIKE THESE ASSHOLES!"

I had really hoped for better.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Thursday, February 23, 2012 3:49 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
The stands they're taking on social issues seem a surefire way to turn solid control of both houses back to the Dems, without any clear mandate given them other than "DON'T BE LIKE THESE ASSHOLES!"



I'm not sure it'll work out like that.

Based on what state legislatures that turned Right in 2010 have been doing recently - "personhood", sonograms prior to abortion, and the like - seems there are a lot of folks who will vote for the Social Conservative platform (to the exclusion of all else) on religious or "moral" grounds.

Unless the Fiscal Conservatives and fiscally conservative-leaning Independents (who may be neutral on social issues) see something that'll allow them to back the Democrats, they may either hold ther noses and vote Republican, or stay home and make it a full-on Social Conservative vs. Social Liberal race.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Thursday, February 23, 2012 4:42 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Geezer, I'm not *sure* it'll work out like that, either, which is why I said it "seems" like a surefire way to get there. It's not a given, or a sure thing, but there's quite an opportunity here if progressives will see it.

Sonogram bills are nothing more than "rape panels", intended to shame women, use coerced "consent" to perform (and charge them for) medically needless procedures by state mandate.

I'm curious - if the church can refuse to offer contraception citing "moral grounds", can a doctor refuse to read the state-written script and perform the state-mandated rape based on those same moral convictions?

I've put the idea forward to a few lawyer friends, and they seem to think it's an idea worth trying out, and are now looking for some courageous doctors willing to test the validity of such laws in the courts.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Thursday, February 23, 2012 8:22 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Sonogram bills are nothing more than "rape panels", intended to shame women, use coerced "consent" to perform (and charge them for) medically needless procedures by state mandate.

I'm curious - if the church can refuse to offer contraception citing "moral grounds", can a doctor refuse to read the state-written script and perform the state-mandated rape based on those same moral convictions?



The governor here in Virginia has asked that the sonogram bill be amended to remove the 'transvaginal' mandate and require only external sonograms, apparently in response to the national ridicule of the original bill.

Looking at the original legislation, it looked pretty much like the description of the "penetration with an object" statute in Va's criminal code.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Thursday, February 23, 2012 8:37 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Sonogram bills are nothing more than "rape panels", intended to shame women, use coerced "consent" to perform (and charge them for) medically needless procedures by state mandate.

I'm curious - if the church can refuse to offer contraception citing "moral grounds", can a doctor refuse to read the state-written script and perform the state-mandated rape based on those same moral convictions?



The governor here in Virginia has asked that the sonogram bill be amended to remove the 'transvaginal' mandate and require only external sonograms, apparently in response to the national ridicule of the original bill.

Looking at the original legislation, it looked pretty much like the description of the "penetration with an object" statute in Va's criminal code.

"Keep the Shiny side up"




Good for him. Our Governor (Scary Perry) had no such reservations when he signed pretty much the exact same bill. Of course, that isn't the first time he's come out in support of government mandates when it comes to healthcare. He says he's against government mandates forcing healthcare on our citizens, but oddly he's shown himself to be quite in favor of those same mandates when it comes to children and women.

If I didn't know better, I'd think he doesn't consider women and children "citizens"...

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Thursday, February 23, 2012 9:15 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

He says he's against government mandates forcing healthcare on our citizens, but oddly he's shown himself to be quite in favor of those same mandates when it comes to children and women.
Aw, c'mon, Mike, it's LONG been proven that the cry of "less government intrusion!" actually means "only the government intrusion WE want". That's nothing new to any of us by now.



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Thursday, February 23, 2012 9:17 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Geezer, not quite right, from what I've heard/read. I covered it in the other thread. The Gov, seeing the way the wind was blowing, took the bill behind closed doors and "rewrote" it to take out the "rape" part. Apparently he did a pretty bad job, the wording was screwed up, etc. The legislature then rejected it completely and wrote their OWN which, aside from taking out the "rape" part, is just as egregious as the original bill.



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Thursday, February 23, 2012 10:55 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Anyone of those repub nuff nuffs gets elected and you'll be living in something akin to the Handmaid's Tale

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Thursday, February 23, 2012 12:19 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Yup. Screw Sharia Law, the biggest danger out there for us are EVANGELICAL LAWS!!!



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Thursday, February 23, 2012 1:10 PM

FREMDFIRMA



You get the stake, I'll get the firewood, doll.


-F

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