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REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS
Candidate for Liar in Chief
Thursday, October 4, 2012 12:04 PM
NIKI2
Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...
Quote:Obama accuses Romney of dishonesty in debate A day after losing the first presidential debate to Mitt Romney, President Barack Obama and his campaign accused the Republican challenger of dishonesty over tax policy and other issues. "If you want to be president, you owe the American people the truth," Obama told a campaign rally Thursday in Denver in reference to the former Massachusetts governor who is challenging him in next month's election. "So here's the truth: Governor Romney cannot pay for his $5 trillion tax plan without blowing up the deficit or sticking it to the middle class. That's the math." The president's senior campaign adviser was even more blunt. "Governor Romney came to give a performance and he gave a good performance and we give him credit for that," David Axelrod told a conference call with reporters. "The problem with it was none of it was rooted in fact." However, Axelrod acknowledged that Obama would examine his debate strategy for the next two contests -- on October 16 in New York and October 22 in Florida. The president opted against "serial fact-checking with Governor Romney, which can be a never-ending, exhausting pursuit," Axelrod said. "Obviously, going forward, we're going to have to look at this and we're going to have make some adjustments." Meanwhile, Romney continued to push his debate theme of too much federal spending under Obama, complaining of "trickle-down government" that has failed to solve the nation's economic woes. "We have two very different courses for America -- trickle-down government or prosperity through freedom," Romney said in an unannounced visit Thursday to a conservative conference in Colorado. "And trickle-down government that the president proposes is one where he will raise taxes on small business, which will kill jobs. I instead want to keep taxes down on small business so we can create jobs." Obama joked Thursday that a different Romney appeared at the debate from the conservative candidate who won a grueling Republican primary campaign to challenge him on November 6. "When I got on to the stage I met this very spirited fellow who claimed to be Mitt Romney," Obama said to laughter from the crowd of more than 12,000 at a Denver park. "But it couldn't have been Mitt Romney because the real Mitt Romney has been running around the country for the last year promising $5 trillion in tax cuts that favor the wealthy. The fellow on stage last night said he didn't know anything about that." Obama also went after Romney's pledge during the debate to cut funding for public broadcasting, referring specifically to the popular Sesame Street character Big Bird. "Thank goodness somebody is finally getting tough on Big Bird," Obama quipped. "It's about time. We didn't know that Big Bird was driving the federal deficit." "At some point, the American people have to ask themselves if the reason that Governor Romney is keeping all these plans secret is because they're too good," Obama said, adding the answer was "no" and that the lack of details reflected the difficulty in making touch decisions. Obama said Romney lacked the important leadership quality of being able to say "no" when necessary. "I've got to tell you, Governor Romney, when it comes to his own party during the course of this campaign, has not displayed that willingness to say no to some of the more extreme parts of his party," Obama said in reference to his challenger's swing to the right during the primaries to appeal to the GOP's conservative base. Obama said Romney's stance to have states craft their own health care plans would allow insurance companies to return to past practices that hurt consumers. On Thursday, Axelrod described Romney in the debate as a "serial evader" and "artful dodger" for avoiding specifics on tax loopholes and deductions he would eliminate or proposals to replace health care reforms and Wall Street reforms he promises to repeal. Romney came under similar criticism from opponents in the Republican primary campaign, with former House Speaker Newt Gingrich calling him a liar in January. http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/04/politics/debate-main/index.html?hpt=hp_t1] This is REALLY someone people want running the country? Gawd help us... President Etch-A-Sketch?Quote:The Etch a Sketch was in full effect at the first presidential debate in Denver on Wednesday night. Mitt Romney put forward a strong performance, transforming back into his 2002 Massachusetts moderate mold, a belated advocate of bipartisan leadership. It would have had a lot more impact if it hadn't contradicted almost every policy statement Romney has made on the campaign trail since he started running for president. This flip-flopping is a force of habit, but it was used to great effect, reflecting a campaign and a candidate finally focused on the general electorate. The audacity of the Etch a Sketch was evident in the first 15 minutes of the debate, when Mitt Romney said, "I will not reduce the taxes paid by high-income Americans." It was an eye-popping assertion, almost as if the candidate hadn't been listening to his own campaign rhetoric -- especially if you'd been following Romney's campaign rhetoric for the past 18 months or more. (Remember that "Etch A Sketch" entered the campaign lexicon in March, when Romney adviser Eric Fehrnstrom signaled on CNN that Romney could transform his primary campaign message for the general election.) The pattern continued with Romney asserting that after repealing Obamacare, he would advocate the implementation of his own individual mandate plan -- "And the best course for health care is to do what we did in my state" -- but it would be state by state, along a federalist model. Romney did not hesitate to play the MediScare card -- the most discredited Democrat tactic against entitlement reform, but apparently acceptable if it is done by a Republican trying to win Florida. Happily, for hypocrisy watchers, this move also scored worst with the focus group of undecided voters conducted by CNN's Erin Burnett in Denver during the debate. The litany of flip-flops increased when the candidates' policy positions were pushed for specifics. It was a necessary goal that wasn't aided by the too often unfocused moderation of veteran newsman Jim Lehrer, who did not need a 12th presidential debate under his belt. Among the gaps was the question of whether Romney supports ending "too big to fail" -- which might mean breaking up the big banks, and/or restoring safeguards from the 1933 Glass-Steagall banking reform act, repealed in 1999 -- or simply repealing the 2010 Dodd-Frank law, which regulates Wall Street. On that issue, as well as on Obamacare, it was not clear what Romney would put in place of the laws he plans to repeal. Romney seemed to indicate he would end oil company subsidies if corporate rates were lowered enough -- that's news to Exxon, I'm guessing. Romney said Obama should have backed the Bowles-Simpson Commission's deficit reduction proposals (I agree), but did not back the recommendations of that panel himself. He advocated a balanced deficit reduction plan but refused to raise any revenue -- and perhaps unwisely said he'd kill "Sesame Street" icon Big Bird in the process. His enthusiasm for budget cutting does not square with his commitment to increasing military spending to 4% of GDP. Whenever Lehrer did try to assert himself as a moderator, Romney reflexively bristled -- he is not a man who likes being told he has to conform to other people's rules. In the search for honest brokers -- patriots, not partisans -- we can only hope that the truth, ever elusive, will win out in the end, because we ultimately get the government we deserve. http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/04/opinion/avlon-etch-a-sketch/index.html?hpt=hp_bn7All too true; unfortunately it's only the stupid among us who give us a government we DON'T deserve...one such as Romney would create.
Quote:The Etch a Sketch was in full effect at the first presidential debate in Denver on Wednesday night. Mitt Romney put forward a strong performance, transforming back into his 2002 Massachusetts moderate mold, a belated advocate of bipartisan leadership. It would have had a lot more impact if it hadn't contradicted almost every policy statement Romney has made on the campaign trail since he started running for president. This flip-flopping is a force of habit, but it was used to great effect, reflecting a campaign and a candidate finally focused on the general electorate. The audacity of the Etch a Sketch was evident in the first 15 minutes of the debate, when Mitt Romney said, "I will not reduce the taxes paid by high-income Americans." It was an eye-popping assertion, almost as if the candidate hadn't been listening to his own campaign rhetoric -- especially if you'd been following Romney's campaign rhetoric for the past 18 months or more. (Remember that "Etch A Sketch" entered the campaign lexicon in March, when Romney adviser Eric Fehrnstrom signaled on CNN that Romney could transform his primary campaign message for the general election.) The pattern continued with Romney asserting that after repealing Obamacare, he would advocate the implementation of his own individual mandate plan -- "And the best course for health care is to do what we did in my state" -- but it would be state by state, along a federalist model. Romney did not hesitate to play the MediScare card -- the most discredited Democrat tactic against entitlement reform, but apparently acceptable if it is done by a Republican trying to win Florida. Happily, for hypocrisy watchers, this move also scored worst with the focus group of undecided voters conducted by CNN's Erin Burnett in Denver during the debate. The litany of flip-flops increased when the candidates' policy positions were pushed for specifics. It was a necessary goal that wasn't aided by the too often unfocused moderation of veteran newsman Jim Lehrer, who did not need a 12th presidential debate under his belt. Among the gaps was the question of whether Romney supports ending "too big to fail" -- which might mean breaking up the big banks, and/or restoring safeguards from the 1933 Glass-Steagall banking reform act, repealed in 1999 -- or simply repealing the 2010 Dodd-Frank law, which regulates Wall Street. On that issue, as well as on Obamacare, it was not clear what Romney would put in place of the laws he plans to repeal. Romney seemed to indicate he would end oil company subsidies if corporate rates were lowered enough -- that's news to Exxon, I'm guessing. Romney said Obama should have backed the Bowles-Simpson Commission's deficit reduction proposals (I agree), but did not back the recommendations of that panel himself. He advocated a balanced deficit reduction plan but refused to raise any revenue -- and perhaps unwisely said he'd kill "Sesame Street" icon Big Bird in the process. His enthusiasm for budget cutting does not square with his commitment to increasing military spending to 4% of GDP. Whenever Lehrer did try to assert himself as a moderator, Romney reflexively bristled -- he is not a man who likes being told he has to conform to other people's rules. In the search for honest brokers -- patriots, not partisans -- we can only hope that the truth, ever elusive, will win out in the end, because we ultimately get the government we deserve. http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/04/opinion/avlon-etch-a-sketch/index.html?hpt=hp_bn7
Thursday, October 4, 2012 2:00 PM
JONGSSTRAW
Thursday, October 4, 2012 2:47 PM
M52NICKERSON
DALEK!
Thursday, October 4, 2012 3:34 PM
KWICKO
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)
Thursday, October 4, 2012 3:57 PM
1KIKI
Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.
Thursday, October 4, 2012 4:20 PM
HERO
Quote:Originally posted by m52nickerson: Easy to debate when you have no record to go on and are willing to lie and change your position at will.
Thursday, October 4, 2012 4:28 PM
HKCAVALIER
Thursday, October 4, 2012 4:47 PM
Thursday, October 4, 2012 5:18 PM
AURAPTOR
America loves a winner!
Thursday, October 4, 2012 5:44 PM
Thursday, October 4, 2012 6:15 PM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: eta - And Jongs, I believe the quote from Contact was " Small moves, Ellie. Small moves ". One of my all time favs. Sure would be nice to be around when we get proof of life out there, be it microbes on Mars, or a signal from Vega. ( Minus the NAZI crap, of course )
Thursday, October 4, 2012 7:20 PM
Friday, October 5, 2012 1:43 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Hero: Quote:Originally posted by m52nickerson: Easy to debate when you have no record to go on and are willing to lie and change your position at will. Apparently not, he lost to Romney. Maybe the President should have dusted off his pseudo-southern preacher accent and started talking black liberation.
Friday, October 5, 2012 6:28 AM
STORYMARK
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Obama is the 1st Whiner. After getting his ass kicked all over the stage in the 1st debate, he resorts to name calling, baseless character assassinations and flat out divisive rhetoric to cover up for his abysmal performance. Both as President and debater against Romney. Obama is a punk, who can't stand being made fun of, even when he's the one to blame for his ridiculous record of failure.
Friday, October 5, 2012 6:56 AM
Quote: As far as any lies being told, all Romney did was totally dismantle the $200 million dollars of ad campaign lies that the Obama camp has spewed out for the last year in their disgusting attempt to paint Romney as a dirty murdering bloodthirsty capitalist. Obama found himself all alone last night, out of his protective bubble, no yes-men koolaiders, no teleprompter, and no adoring protective press to stroke his schlong for the first time in four years.
Quote: Maybe the President should have dusted off his pseudo-southern preacher accent and started talking black liberation.
Friday, October 5, 2012 7:21 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: Okay, I'm gonna have fun (again) dissecting this thread. I started it out with a couple of--yes, partisan--articles which I believe reflected what happened during the debate, from all I've read/heard. Anyone who disagrees with me can check the "fact check" post I put up, showing specifically the lies Romney--AND OBAMA--told that night. Note that my estimation was that it reflected sour grapes, because unless Romney was challenged on his lies at the time, saying he lied afterwards is...sour grapes. The first response from the right:Quote: As far as any lies being told, all Romney did was totally dismantle the $200 million dollars of ad campaign lies that the Obama camp has spewed out for the last year in their disgusting attempt to paint Romney as a dirty murdering bloodthirsty capitalist. Obama found himself all alone last night, out of his protective bubble, no yes-men koolaiders, no teleprompter, and no adoring protective press to stroke his schlong for the first time in four years. I challenge Straw to either read the fact-checks thread I put up, or find any HE wants to, which clearly show that there were only lies from Obama, or anywhere the Obama camp has "painted" Romney as a "dirty murdering bloodthirsty capitalist" (murdering???). The rest is just plain filth and not worth responding to, but remember it next time you want to complain about lefties taking the "low road". It don't get much lower.
Quote: Nick refutes by charging Romney "burying the President in bullshit". Mike snarks about Romney. Kiki challenges Straw to back up his claim with facts. "Hero" pops in with Quote: Maybe the President should have dusted off his pseudo-southern preacher accent and started talking black liberation. Cav comes in with what I happen to believe is a pretty accurate depiction of the current situation. You can disagree with it, but all along it's been shown that " They didn't like Romney because they thought he was a loser." The switch of approval on the part of the far right is hard to explain other than how he did: "Now they can see him winning and they're overjoyed with him." But it's something that can be debated. Rap comes in to agree with Straw, in again, with some of the nastiest verbiage in the thread. Kiki snarks at Rap. Straw posts something unrelated. Kiki again challenges Straw to back up his remarks. Nick calls "Hero" a fucking idiot. Mark snarks at Rap. And there we are. In this case, I'm betting that the "piling on" by the left is a result of the absolute ugliness with which those on the right portrayed Obama and the labeling of Obama as the only one lying; that's just my guess, because it hit me the same way. Were the negatives about Obama couched in ANY language except the horrendous nastiness with which they were, perhaps a debate on the issues would have been possible. Or not. Probably not. I, too, challenge ANYONE on the right to show with facts and figures that it was only Obama, or even MOSTLY Obama who "lied".
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