REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Candidate for Liar in Chief

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Friday, October 5, 2012 07:21
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Thursday, October 4, 2012 12:04 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Sour grapes, in my opinion, because tho' I didn't see the debate, if he could have, Obama should have called Romney out on this stuff AT THE TIME, not afterward. Nonetheless,
Quote:

Obama accuses Romney of dishonesty in debate

A day after losing the first presidential debate to Mitt Romney, President Barack Obama and his campaign accused the Republican challenger of dishonesty over tax policy and other issues.

"If you want to be president, you owe the American people the truth," Obama told a campaign rally Thursday in Denver in reference to the former Massachusetts governor who is challenging him in next month's election. "So here's the truth: Governor Romney cannot pay for his $5 trillion tax plan without blowing up the deficit or sticking it to the middle class. That's the math."

The president's senior campaign adviser was even more blunt.

"Governor Romney came to give a performance and he gave a good performance and we give him credit for that," David Axelrod told a conference call with reporters. "The problem with it was none of it was rooted in fact."

However, Axelrod acknowledged that Obama would examine his debate strategy for the next two contests -- on October 16 in New York and October 22 in Florida.

The president opted against "serial fact-checking with Governor Romney, which can be a never-ending, exhausting pursuit," Axelrod said. "Obviously, going forward, we're going to have to look at this and we're going to have make some adjustments."

Meanwhile, Romney continued to push his debate theme of too much federal spending under Obama, complaining of "trickle-down government" that has failed to solve the nation's economic woes.

"We have two very different courses for America -- trickle-down government or prosperity through freedom," Romney said in an unannounced visit Thursday to a conservative conference in Colorado. "And trickle-down government that the president proposes is one where he will raise taxes on small business, which will kill jobs. I instead want to keep taxes down on small business so we can create jobs."

Obama joked Thursday that a different Romney appeared at the debate from the conservative candidate who won a grueling Republican primary campaign to challenge him on November 6.

"When I got on to the stage I met this very spirited fellow who claimed to be Mitt Romney," Obama said to laughter from the crowd of more than 12,000 at a Denver park. "But it couldn't have been Mitt Romney because the real Mitt Romney has been running around the country for the last year promising $5 trillion in tax cuts that favor the wealthy. The fellow on stage last night said he didn't know anything about that."

Obama also went after Romney's pledge during the debate to cut funding for public broadcasting, referring specifically to the popular Sesame Street character Big Bird.

"Thank goodness somebody is finally getting tough on Big Bird," Obama quipped. "It's about time. We didn't know that Big Bird was driving the federal deficit."

"At some point, the American people have to ask themselves if the reason that Governor Romney is keeping all these plans secret is because they're too good," Obama said, adding the answer was "no" and that the lack of details reflected the difficulty in making touch decisions.

Obama said Romney lacked the important leadership quality of being able to say "no" when necessary.

"I've got to tell you, Governor Romney, when it comes to his own party during the course of this campaign, has not displayed that willingness to say no to some of the more extreme parts of his party," Obama said in reference to his challenger's swing to the right during the primaries to appeal to the GOP's conservative base.

Obama said Romney's stance to have states craft their own health care plans would allow insurance companies to return to past practices that hurt consumers.

On Thursday, Axelrod described Romney in the debate as a "serial evader" and "artful dodger" for avoiding specifics on tax loopholes and deductions he would eliminate or proposals to replace health care reforms and Wall Street reforms he promises to repeal.

Romney came under similar criticism from opponents in the Republican primary campaign, with former House Speaker Newt Gingrich calling him a liar in January. http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/04/politics/debate-main/index.html?hpt=hp_t
1
]
This is REALLY someone people want running the country? Gawd help us... President Etch-A-Sketch?
Quote:

The Etch a Sketch was in full effect at the first presidential debate in Denver on Wednesday night.

Mitt Romney put forward a strong performance, transforming back into his 2002 Massachusetts moderate mold, a belated advocate of bipartisan leadership. It would have had a lot more impact if it hadn't contradicted almost every policy statement Romney has made on the campaign trail since he started running for president. This flip-flopping is a force of habit, but it was used to great effect, reflecting a campaign and a candidate finally focused on the general electorate.

The audacity of the Etch a Sketch was evident in the first 15 minutes of the debate, when Mitt Romney said, "I will not reduce the taxes paid by high-income Americans." It was an eye-popping assertion, almost as if the candidate hadn't been listening to his own campaign rhetoric -- especially if you'd been following Romney's campaign rhetoric for the past 18 months or more. (Remember that "Etch A Sketch" entered the campaign lexicon in March, when Romney adviser Eric Fehrnstrom signaled on CNN that Romney could transform his primary campaign message for the general election.)

The pattern continued with Romney asserting that after repealing Obamacare, he would advocate the implementation of his own individual mandate plan -- "And the best course for health care is to do what we did in my state" -- but it would be state by state, along a federalist model.

Romney did not hesitate to play the MediScare card -- the most discredited Democrat tactic against entitlement reform, but apparently acceptable if it is done by a Republican trying to win Florida. Happily, for hypocrisy watchers, this move also scored worst with the focus group of undecided voters conducted by CNN's Erin Burnett in Denver during the debate.

The litany of flip-flops increased when the candidates' policy positions were pushed for specifics. It was a necessary goal that wasn't aided by the too often unfocused moderation of veteran newsman Jim Lehrer, who did not need a 12th presidential debate under his belt.

Among the gaps was the question of whether Romney supports ending "too big to fail" -- which might mean breaking up the big banks, and/or restoring safeguards from the 1933 Glass-Steagall banking reform act, repealed in 1999 -- or simply repealing the 2010 Dodd-Frank law, which regulates Wall Street.

On that issue, as well as on Obamacare, it was not clear what Romney would put in place of the laws he plans to repeal.

Romney seemed to indicate he would end oil company subsidies if corporate rates were lowered enough -- that's news to Exxon, I'm guessing. Romney said Obama should have backed the Bowles-Simpson Commission's deficit reduction proposals (I agree), but did not back the recommendations of that panel himself.

He advocated a balanced deficit reduction plan but refused to raise any revenue -- and perhaps unwisely said he'd kill "Sesame Street" icon Big Bird in the process. His enthusiasm for budget cutting does not square with his commitment to increasing military spending to 4% of GDP.

Whenever Lehrer did try to assert himself as a moderator, Romney reflexively bristled -- he is not a man who likes being told he has to conform to other people's rules.

In the search for honest brokers -- patriots, not partisans -- we can only hope that the truth, ever elusive, will win out in the end, because we ultimately get the government we deserve. http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/04/opinion/avlon-etch-a-sketch/index.html?h
pt=hp_bn7

All too true; unfortunately it's only the stupid among us who give us a government we DON'T deserve...one such as Romney would create.

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Thursday, October 4, 2012 2:00 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Based on last night's drubbing of Obama I'm starting to think that Romney might actually have a longshot chance to beat him in November. Al Gore blamed Obama's disaster on the altitude, others blamed the moderator. Pretty lame by any standards. As far as any lies being told, all Romney did was totally dismantle the $200 million dollars of ad campaign lies that the Obama camp has spewed out for the last year in their disgusting attempt to paint Romney as a dirty murdering bloodthirsty capitalist. Obama found himself all alone last night, out of his protective bubble, no yes-men koolaiders, no teleprompter, and no adoring protective press to stroke his schlong for the first time in four years.

Just wait until the debate shifts to foreign policy. Imagine how Obama is going to squirm and hold his head down in shame and humiliation over his negligence and culpability for the deadly Libya terrorist attack, as well as the complete failure of his Middle East outreach to Muslims policies that have all gone up in flames. His head may be hanging so low by the end of that one that he might be able to actually jam it up his sorry ass where it belongs.

All in all I have no illusions about the likely election outcome, but it was a remarkably surprising and refreshing turn of events last night. Even if it all ends up meaningless, I'm glad I stayed up and watched it live.


"Small steps Ellie, small steps." Better than no steps.











Hmmm, better than Reuben's.
..One more.
Ben!
..My last one.
Okay.

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Thursday, October 4, 2012 2:47 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Easy to debate when you have no record to go on and are willing to lie and change your position at will. Romney won by burying the President in bullshit.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, October 4, 2012 3:34 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Snow White, Superman and Pinocchio are walking along. They see a sign: "Contest for World's Most Beautiful Woman." Snow White goes in, later comes out smiling, wearing a crown. They walk along and see another sign: "Contest for World's Strongest Man." Superman goes in, later comes out smiling, wearing the belt. They walk along and see a sign: "Contest for World's Greatest Liar." Pinocchio goes in, later comes out with his head down crying. "Who the hell is Mitt Romney?" Pinocchio sobs.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Thursday, October 4, 2012 3:57 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"... all Romney did was totally dismantle the $200 million dollars of ad campaign lies .."

Such as? I'm sure you must have them all memorized. It should be no problem for you to list a dozen or so - right?


So, I have a random question for you - Obama - US citizen, or not?

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Thursday, October 4, 2012 4:20 PM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Easy to debate when you have no record to go on and are willing to lie and change your position at will.


Apparently not, he lost to Romney. Maybe the President should have dusted off his pseudo-southern preacher accent and started talking black liberation.

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

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Thursday, October 4, 2012 4:28 PM

HKCAVALIER


What amazes me is that the right wing who have been so disappointed with Romney for his not being right wing enough are crowing now over his triumphant portrayal of a moderate in last night's debate. In one night he betrayed every far right cause he could think of to, essentially, out-Obama Obama.

But as I've said before, because they think the "MSM" is against them and because Obama has managed to "dupe" the American people into letting him "destroy" our nation, the right wing EXPECT their candidates to lie and lie and lie 'cause that's the only way to beat these damn leftists who have taken over the country. All of right wing politics has become pure dog whistle. Lefties are always miserable when their candidate lies and that's where all the "but Bush" stuff comes from. But the right are positively gleeful when one of theirs spouts absolute bullshit and gets away with it. It tickles 'em.

That's why our RWED righties are gloating now, because they know perfectly well that Romney lied his ass off last night. But they also know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that if Romney were to be elected POTUS he'd be following the fuck-the-47% playbook his handlers give him from day one. They didn't like Romney because they thought he was a loser. Now they can see him winning and they're overjoyed with him.

Pretty damn depressing, folks.

Oh, and one last thing: last night was the Economy, friends. With a weak economy like ours, that's gonna be very hard for the incumbent to win. Unless the challenger drops trow by accident, he's gonna win that round. Enjoy it while ya can, I guess.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Thursday, October 4, 2012 4:47 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I payed close attention to content and thought of it as an unintended experiment - do people prefer uncomfortable truths, or happy lies? So I guess I have my answer.

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Thursday, October 4, 2012 5:18 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Obama is the 1st Whiner.

After getting his ass kicked all over the stage in the 1st debate, he resorts to name calling, baseless character assassinations and flat out divisive rhetoric to cover up for his abysmal performance. Both as President and debater against Romney.

Obama is a punk, who can't stand being made fun of, even when he's the one to blame for his ridiculous record of failure.

eta - And Jongs, I believe the quote from Contact was " Small moves, Ellie. Small moves ".

One of my all time favs. Sure would be nice to be around when we get proof of life out there, be it microbes on Mars, or a signal from Vega. ( Minus the NAZI crap, of course )


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, October 4, 2012 5:44 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Jeez, someone should do something about the flies buzzing around here.

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Thursday, October 4, 2012 6:15 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

eta - And Jongs, I believe the quote from Contact was " Small moves, Ellie. Small moves ".

One of my all time favs. Sure would be nice to be around when we get proof of life out there, be it microbes on Mars, or a signal from Vega. ( Minus the NAZI crap, of course )


Yep it is. Don't know how I could not remember that quote accurately. Must be the high altitude here in Fort Lauderdale or senility setting in. I love Contact too, one of my favorite movies. Two years ago I met Jake Busey at Screamfest in Orlando. He was very approachable and a very cool guy. He was all alone at his table which was next to Adrienne Barbeau. I was able to ask him a lot of questions about Contact and Starship Troopers. It was glorious! He personalized his photo with "Only good bug is a dead bug!" And Adrienne was still smokin' hot and very friendly! So was Linda Blair, one of the featured guests.


eta: The Nazi "crap" was necessary and logical in the context of the movie because of the television broadcast of Hitler at the 1936 Berlin Olympics. The masses camped outside of the VLA in New Mexico, complete with nut jobs of ever variety, seemed a realistic portrayal of what would occur if such a thing ever happened for real. Occupy Socorro was the forerunner of OWS.







Hmmm, better than Reuben's.
..One more.
Ben!
..My last one.
Okay.

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Thursday, October 4, 2012 7:20 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"... all Romney did was totally dismantle the $200 million dollars of ad campaign lies .."

And still, no examples of the '$200 million dollars of ad campaign lies'. For all that money that you claim was spent, and all the ads that were aired, you can’t come up with examples, can you. Not even one.

Or Jongie, have you joined the ranks of little rappy, the ZIT, 'Hero' et al with fact-free assertions?

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Friday, October 5, 2012 1:43 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Easy to debate when you have no record to go on and are willing to lie and change your position at will.


Apparently not, he lost to Romney. Maybe the President should have dusted off his pseudo-southern preacher accent and started talking black liberation.



Oh Hero it hartens me to know you are still a complete fucking idiot. See Obama was not the one who lied and simple starting saying whatever he thought was going to be popular. The was Mitt. Now I'm all for people changing their minds if they learn something new about a topic, but Mitt showed that he will say anything to get elected.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Friday, October 5, 2012 6:28 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Obama is the 1st Whiner.

After getting his ass kicked all over the stage in the 1st debate, he resorts to name calling, baseless character assassinations and flat out divisive rhetoric to cover up for his abysmal performance. Both as President and debater against Romney.

Obama is a punk, who can't stand being made fun of, even when he's the one to blame for his ridiculous record of failure.



This from the chump who whined about respecting the office of the Prez when people critisized Dubya.

And once again, rappy shows he has no problem with serial liars - as long as they put "R" in front of their name.


Note to anyone - Please pity the poor, poor wittle Rappyboy. He's feeling put upon lately, what with all those facts disagreeing with what he believes.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum


"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Friday, October 5, 2012 6:56 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Okay, I'm gonna have fun (again) dissecting this thread.

I started it out with a couple of--yes, partisan--articles which I believe reflected what happened during the debate, from all I've read/heard. Anyone who disagrees with me can check the "fact check" post I put up, showing specifically the lies Romney--AND OBAMA--told that night. Note that my estimation was that it reflected sour grapes, because unless Romney was challenged on his lies at the time, saying he lied afterwards is...sour grapes.

The first response from the right:
Quote:

As far as any lies being told, all Romney did was totally dismantle the $200 million dollars of ad campaign lies that the Obama camp has spewed out for the last year in their disgusting attempt to paint Romney as a dirty murdering bloodthirsty capitalist. Obama found himself all alone last night, out of his protective bubble, no yes-men koolaiders, no teleprompter, and no adoring protective press to stroke his schlong for the first time in four years.

I challenge Straw to either read the fact-checks thread I put up, or find any HE wants to, which clearly show that there were only lies from Obama, or anywhere the Obama camp has "painted" Romney as a "dirty murdering bloodthirsty capitalist" (murdering???). The rest is just plain filth and not worth responding to, but remember it next time you want to complain about lefties taking the "low road". It don't get much lower.

Nick refutes by charging Romney "burying the President in bullshit".

Mike snarks about Romney.

Kiki challenges Straw to back up his claim with facts.

"Hero" pops in with
Quote:

Maybe the President should have dusted off his pseudo-southern preacher accent and started talking black liberation.


Cav comes in with what I happen to believe is a pretty accurate depiction of the current situation. You can disagree with it, but all along it's been shown that " They didn't like Romney because they thought he was a loser." The switch of approval on the part of the far right is hard to explain other than how he did: "Now they can see him winning and they're overjoyed with him." But it's something that can be debated.

Rap comes in to agree with Straw, in again, with some of the nastiest verbiage in the thread.

Kiki snarks at Rap.

Straw posts something unrelated.

Kiki again challenges Straw to back up his remarks.

Nick calls "Hero" a fucking idiot.

Mark snarks at Rap.

And there we are. In this case, I'm betting that the "piling on" by the left is a result of the absolute ugliness with which those on the right portrayed Obama and the labeling of Obama as the only one lying; that's just my guess, because it hit me the same way. Were the negatives about Obama couched in ANY language except the horrendous nastiness with which they were, perhaps a debate on the issues would have been possible. Or not. Probably not.

I, too, challenge ANYONE on the right to show with facts and figures that it was only Obama, or even MOSTLY Obama who "lied".


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Friday, October 5, 2012 7:21 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Okay, I'm gonna have fun (again) dissecting this thread.

I started it out with a couple of--yes, partisan--articles which I believe reflected what happened during the debate, from all I've read/heard. Anyone who disagrees with me can check the "fact check" post I put up, showing specifically the lies Romney--AND OBAMA--told that night. Note that my estimation was that it reflected sour grapes, because unless Romney was challenged on his lies at the time, saying he lied afterwards is...sour grapes.

The first response from the right:
Quote:

As far as any lies being told, all Romney did was totally dismantle the $200 million dollars of ad campaign lies that the Obama camp has spewed out for the last year in their disgusting attempt to paint Romney as a dirty murdering bloodthirsty capitalist. Obama found himself all alone last night, out of his protective bubble, no yes-men koolaiders, no teleprompter, and no adoring protective press to stroke his schlong for the first time in four years.

I challenge Straw to either read the fact-checks thread I put up, or find any HE wants to, which clearly show that there were only lies from Obama, or anywhere the Obama camp has "painted" Romney as a "dirty murdering bloodthirsty capitalist" (murdering???). The rest is just plain filth and not worth responding to, but remember it next time you want to complain about lefties taking the "low road". It don't get much lower.




Sure it does, and usually from Jongsie himself. In the past few weeks, he's referred to Michael Steele as a "house nigger" and claimed that the GOP was going to woo the black vote by having people in blackface at the convention.

How much lower would you like him to go?

Quote:


Nick refutes by charging Romney "burying the President in bullshit".

Mike snarks about Romney.

Kiki challenges Straw to back up his claim with facts.

"Hero" pops in with
Quote:

Maybe the President should have dusted off his pseudo-southern preacher accent and started talking black liberation.


Cav comes in with what I happen to believe is a pretty accurate depiction of the current situation. You can disagree with it, but all along it's been shown that " They didn't like Romney because they thought he was a loser." The switch of approval on the part of the far right is hard to explain other than how he did: "Now they can see him winning and they're overjoyed with him." But it's something that can be debated.

Rap comes in to agree with Straw, in again, with some of the nastiest verbiage in the thread.

Kiki snarks at Rap.

Straw posts something unrelated.

Kiki again challenges Straw to back up his remarks.

Nick calls "Hero" a fucking idiot.

Mark snarks at Rap.

And there we are. In this case, I'm betting that the "piling on" by the left is a result of the absolute ugliness with which those on the right portrayed Obama and the labeling of Obama as the only one lying; that's just my guess, because it hit me the same way. Were the negatives about Obama couched in ANY language except the horrendous nastiness with which they were, perhaps a debate on the issues would have been possible. Or not. Probably not.

I, too, challenge ANYONE on the right to show with facts and figures that it was only Obama, or even MOSTLY Obama who "lied".





"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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