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REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS
Alan West is OUT!!!
Monday, November 12, 2012 3:26 PM
NIKI2
Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...
Monday, November 12, 2012 3:30 PM
Monday, November 12, 2012 3:35 PM
M52NICKERSON
DALEK!
Monday, November 12, 2012 4:03 PM
HERO
Monday, November 12, 2012 5:59 PM
ANTHONYT
Freedom is Important because People are Important
Quote:Originally posted by Hero: Last I heard they were going to conduct a recount. The margin was pretty close. H Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012
Tuesday, November 13, 2012 6:32 AM
Quote: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/10/allen-west-patrick-murphy_n_2109313.html Rep. Allen West (R-Fla.) may be vowing that his race against Patrick Murphy is far from over, but as of early Saturday morning, all ballots were counted and legally the result is clear: West lost. Murphy won a total of 166,799 votes to West's 164,370, the Palm Beach Post reported. That puts Murphy ahead by 2,429 votes and gives him a 0.7 percent advantage. Florida law only requires a recount when the margin is 0.5 percent or less. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/10/allen-west-patrick-murphy_n_2109313.html] But he's not accepting that:Quote:Decisive lead or not, District 18 unofficial winner Patrick Murphy can expect Allen West to keep sparring with elections officials in court for at least a few weeks, according to a Nova Southeastern University constitutional lawyer. The Republican Palm Beach Gardens congressman could even stretch it out for months by pleading his case to the U.S. House of Representatives. He could take the battle into 2013 by challenging Murphy's January swearing into Congress. But ultimately, Bob Jarvis of Nova Southeastern's law school said, neither the courts nor Congress likely will entertain much of West's argument. Any ballot issues affected both candidates, he said, and the House historically doesn't overturn election results. "Whatever disadvantages (West) was working under, Murphy was working under," Jarvis said. "The court is really only interested when there is obvious bias where it's clear. If one candidate's name is left off the ballot, well then obviously you have a real problem." After a partial recount Sunday in St. Lucie County, West trailed Murphy by 1,907 votes, or 0.57 percent, across the Martin-St. Lucie-northern Palm Beach district. West lost 132 votes and his Democratic Jupiter opponent dropped 667 with the re-tally of early ballots from Nov. 1 through 3. Murphy's lead was still large enough to prevent a state-required automatic recount across the entire district. That only occurs when the lead is 0.5 percent or less. the first legal defeat, a Palm Beach County Circuit Court judge dismissed West's motion Friday to impound ballots and voting machines for a potential recount. Judge David F. Crow called the request "entirely premature" because unofficial results, which came in Saturday at noon, weren't available at the time. He said West's legal team presented no evidence that Florida election law had been breached, and added that the courts are supposed to stay largely out of elections. The same motion was filed in St. Lucie County circuit court, but no hearing has been scheduled. Asked if he will keep pursuing legal action in St. Lucie if his motion is denied, West said Saturday, "We have to sit down and talk about it." "With the whole notion of the Palm Beach butterfly ballot, every candidate was disadvantaged," Jarvis said. "That wasn't a ballot that clearly tilted in somebody's favor. ... For the most part, courts do take a very hands-off approach." A second route is available for West. The congressman can file a challenge with the House when Murphy takes his seat in January, saying he was the winner. That's because Article I of the Constitution give the House or Senate authority to decide a contested election. But that doesn't mean West has much of a shot, even with the Republican majority House, U.S. Rep. Tom Rooney, a Tequesta Republican who represents much of Martin and St. Lucie now, said. "There have been over a hundred of these challenges in the last century, but they really never succeed," Jarvis said. The Associated Press called Murphy the winner Saturday after Palm Beach County finalized its unofficial vote tallies earlier that day. "(West) has over $2 million in the bank and is prepared to fight for as long as it takes," Murphy campaign manager Anthony Kusich said in his fundraising email. Jarvis said West might hit a dead-end in his legal arguments, and the American public generally likes a gracious runner-up. But by keeping up lawsuits and challenges, Jarvis said West stays in the stoplight without sacrificing much. "You assume he's going to have his own show on Fox or be a Fox commentator," Jarvis said. "And I'm sure he'll never miss an opportunity to remind listeners, 'the liberals, the judges, the election officials took this away from me.' It's a really a no-lose situation for West."More at http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/political/allen-west-patrick-murphy-race-update-west-could-challenge-district-18-results-for-months] But then, we knew that. Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.
Quote:Decisive lead or not, District 18 unofficial winner Patrick Murphy can expect Allen West to keep sparring with elections officials in court for at least a few weeks, according to a Nova Southeastern University constitutional lawyer. The Republican Palm Beach Gardens congressman could even stretch it out for months by pleading his case to the U.S. House of Representatives. He could take the battle into 2013 by challenging Murphy's January swearing into Congress. But ultimately, Bob Jarvis of Nova Southeastern's law school said, neither the courts nor Congress likely will entertain much of West's argument. Any ballot issues affected both candidates, he said, and the House historically doesn't overturn election results. "Whatever disadvantages (West) was working under, Murphy was working under," Jarvis said. "The court is really only interested when there is obvious bias where it's clear. If one candidate's name is left off the ballot, well then obviously you have a real problem." After a partial recount Sunday in St. Lucie County, West trailed Murphy by 1,907 votes, or 0.57 percent, across the Martin-St. Lucie-northern Palm Beach district. West lost 132 votes and his Democratic Jupiter opponent dropped 667 with the re-tally of early ballots from Nov. 1 through 3. Murphy's lead was still large enough to prevent a state-required automatic recount across the entire district. That only occurs when the lead is 0.5 percent or less. the first legal defeat, a Palm Beach County Circuit Court judge dismissed West's motion Friday to impound ballots and voting machines for a potential recount. Judge David F. Crow called the request "entirely premature" because unofficial results, which came in Saturday at noon, weren't available at the time. He said West's legal team presented no evidence that Florida election law had been breached, and added that the courts are supposed to stay largely out of elections. The same motion was filed in St. Lucie County circuit court, but no hearing has been scheduled. Asked if he will keep pursuing legal action in St. Lucie if his motion is denied, West said Saturday, "We have to sit down and talk about it." "With the whole notion of the Palm Beach butterfly ballot, every candidate was disadvantaged," Jarvis said. "That wasn't a ballot that clearly tilted in somebody's favor. ... For the most part, courts do take a very hands-off approach." A second route is available for West. The congressman can file a challenge with the House when Murphy takes his seat in January, saying he was the winner. That's because Article I of the Constitution give the House or Senate authority to decide a contested election. But that doesn't mean West has much of a shot, even with the Republican majority House, U.S. Rep. Tom Rooney, a Tequesta Republican who represents much of Martin and St. Lucie now, said. "There have been over a hundred of these challenges in the last century, but they really never succeed," Jarvis said. The Associated Press called Murphy the winner Saturday after Palm Beach County finalized its unofficial vote tallies earlier that day. "(West) has over $2 million in the bank and is prepared to fight for as long as it takes," Murphy campaign manager Anthony Kusich said in his fundraising email. Jarvis said West might hit a dead-end in his legal arguments, and the American public generally likes a gracious runner-up. But by keeping up lawsuits and challenges, Jarvis said West stays in the stoplight without sacrificing much. "You assume he's going to have his own show on Fox or be a Fox commentator," Jarvis said. "And I'm sure he'll never miss an opportunity to remind listeners, 'the liberals, the judges, the election officials took this away from me.' It's a really a no-lose situation for West."More at http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/political/allen-west-patrick-murphy-race-update-west-could-challenge-district-18-results-for-months] But then, we knew that. Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.
Tuesday, November 13, 2012 8:08 AM
Tuesday, November 13, 2012 8:12 AM
Quote:Naturally the Democrats tried to limit the recount and the Republicans want a full recount.
Tuesday, November 13, 2012 8:38 AM
Quote:This mess came to a head on the heels of two years of state government domination by Republican Governor Rick Scott and a Republican two-thirds "super-majority" that did pretty much as it pleased when it came to rule/law-making from 2010-2012. This mess had everything to do with that Republican team passing new laws and enacting new budgets and rules, all of which combined to make it much, much harder for a lot of Floridians to vote - especially (but not nearly only) Black, Hispanic and Young voters. Voters who usually don't support the Republican team. And now in Florida, a strong new coalition of outraged citizens, public officials and public/labor/voter advocacy organizations are ready to mount the fight for The Changes We Need to fix our broken Florida electoral system. Today, they went public with a proposed Florida Voter Bill of Rights: 1. Reinstate Early Voting days cut by Governor Scott and members of the Florida legislature. Require early voting for at least 14 days, including weekends and the last Sunday before Election Day, as well as ensure voting for 12 hours each day. 2. More early voting sites. There should be at least one early voting site plus one additional for every 65,000 registered voters in the each county. 3. Local discretion in determining early voting sites. Supervisors of Elections should have discretion to choose the best sites for Early Voting and Election Day based upon local needs. 4. Increased polling place resources. A formula should be used to ensure an adequate number of voters, poll workers, machines, privacy booths, scanners, printers and translators per polling place. 5. Better voter assistance and bilingual access. Improved voter assistance and translation at the polls is necessary to ensure every voter has the right to vote a complete ballot with full understanding. 6. Ensure provisional ballots are counted. Provisional ballots cast in the wrong precinct or polling place should be counted for non-precinct related elections i.e., countywide, statewide and federal offices. 7. Provide adequate notice of polling location. Voters should be informed of polling locations at least 30 days before an election. Ultimately, on Election Day voters should be able to cast a ballot in any polling location within their county of residence. 8. A representative Community Advisory Board including voters of color, low-income voters, persons with disabilities, and the elderly. Rather than the state changing voting laws in ways that decrease access and discriminate, the people of Florida should have open channels to government officials to communication what is needed to ensure free, fair and accessible elections so all eligible citizens can vote.More at http://www.examiner.com/article/changes-we-need-after-florida-2012-election] Anyone paying attention this election season has become aware of all the voter-supppression tactics used in states like Pennsylvania, Ohio, and especially Florida:Quote:From the moment Republicans took office in 2011, controlling gubernatorial and election offices in swing states, they started tightening voting laws. In Florida, it took only two months to pass a comprehensive bill that scaled back early-voting days, prevented voters from changing their addresses when they got to the polls, and started a 48-hour countdown that required voter-registration campaigns to turn in their forms within two days or pay fines. That bill was filed on March 7 and become law two months later. The Florida law became infamous. After the League of Women Voters gave up on registering voters, The Daily Show sent a reporter down to make fun of the 48-hour rule. According to a summer report by the Third Way think tank, Democrats lost 246,934 Florida voters after November 2008, and Republicans had lost only 71,829. But after November 2011, when the 48-hour law went into effect, Democrats lost 8,044 registrants; Republicans gained 18,303. In June, a Florida court struck down the 48-hour rule. In September, the state gave up on an error-filled purge of voter registrations. More at http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2012/10/florida_voter_suppression_ republican_efforts_to_discourage_turnout_in_florida.html Does anyone need to be reminded of the mess in Florida regarding the voter "purge", and who it affected most? The stories have abounded for some times now in the media, newspapers and on the internet.Quote:With one day left in the campaign, a basic difference between the two parties is in depressing evidence: Democrats seek to expand the franchise, while Republicans seek to restrict it. A Times editorial over the weekend described recent Republican efforts to confuse, mislead or intimidate voters, hamper early voting, and otherwise reduce turnout among minorities, poor people and other likely Democrats in Ohio, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Texas, Wisconsin, Iowa and Florida. The situation in that last state is particularly egregious. Some South Florida voters waited as long as seven hours to cast a ballot on Saturday. The Miami Herald reported that, in Miami-Dade, the last voter wasn’t checked in until 1 a.m. An untold number of people left the queues without voting at all. The Florida Democratic Party filed a federal lawsuit to extend early voting hours in Miami-Dade, Broward and Palm Beach Counties, which together account for about 32 percent of the state’s registered Democrats. The lawsuit stated that the three counties have “inadequate polling facilities” and that “long lines and extreme delays unduly and unjustifiably burdened the right to vote.” According to a Times story, election supervisors in Miami-Dade and Palm Beach “said they would allow voters to request and cast absentee ballots on Sunday,” but later that day “Miami-Dade’s county election supervisor closed down the line for absentee ballots after two hours.” Former New Jersey Gov. Christine Todd Whitman, a Republican, criticized the situation in Florida: “I don’t know what went on in Florida, but I do have to say that in this day and age, it’s inexcusable that in this country, we have anything like this going on. I’ve led delegations around the world to watch voting and this is the kind of thing you expect in a third-world country, not in the United States of America."Much more at http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/11/05/florida-voting-like-a-third-world-country/#h If there was any fraud going on in Florida, it was "legalized fraud" perpetrated by the Republican party. And despite it all, Obama won Florida and West is out. I wonder what the totals would have been if EVERYONE who had the right to had voted? (ETA: I had to break one of those links so the text would wrap right...if you want to go to the links, just take out the space in it.) Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.
Quote:From the moment Republicans took office in 2011, controlling gubernatorial and election offices in swing states, they started tightening voting laws. In Florida, it took only two months to pass a comprehensive bill that scaled back early-voting days, prevented voters from changing their addresses when they got to the polls, and started a 48-hour countdown that required voter-registration campaigns to turn in their forms within two days or pay fines. That bill was filed on March 7 and become law two months later. The Florida law became infamous. After the League of Women Voters gave up on registering voters, The Daily Show sent a reporter down to make fun of the 48-hour rule. According to a summer report by the Third Way think tank, Democrats lost 246,934 Florida voters after November 2008, and Republicans had lost only 71,829. But after November 2011, when the 48-hour law went into effect, Democrats lost 8,044 registrants; Republicans gained 18,303. In June, a Florida court struck down the 48-hour rule. In September, the state gave up on an error-filled purge of voter registrations. More at http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2012/10/florida_voter_suppression_ republican_efforts_to_discourage_turnout_in_florida.html
Quote:With one day left in the campaign, a basic difference between the two parties is in depressing evidence: Democrats seek to expand the franchise, while Republicans seek to restrict it. A Times editorial over the weekend described recent Republican efforts to confuse, mislead or intimidate voters, hamper early voting, and otherwise reduce turnout among minorities, poor people and other likely Democrats in Ohio, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Texas, Wisconsin, Iowa and Florida. The situation in that last state is particularly egregious. Some South Florida voters waited as long as seven hours to cast a ballot on Saturday. The Miami Herald reported that, in Miami-Dade, the last voter wasn’t checked in until 1 a.m. An untold number of people left the queues without voting at all. The Florida Democratic Party filed a federal lawsuit to extend early voting hours in Miami-Dade, Broward and Palm Beach Counties, which together account for about 32 percent of the state’s registered Democrats. The lawsuit stated that the three counties have “inadequate polling facilities” and that “long lines and extreme delays unduly and unjustifiably burdened the right to vote.” According to a Times story, election supervisors in Miami-Dade and Palm Beach “said they would allow voters to request and cast absentee ballots on Sunday,” but later that day “Miami-Dade’s county election supervisor closed down the line for absentee ballots after two hours.” Former New Jersey Gov. Christine Todd Whitman, a Republican, criticized the situation in Florida: “I don’t know what went on in Florida, but I do have to say that in this day and age, it’s inexcusable that in this country, we have anything like this going on. I’ve led delegations around the world to watch voting and this is the kind of thing you expect in a third-world country, not in the United States of America."Much more at http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/11/05/florida-voting-like-a-third-world-country/#h
Tuesday, November 13, 2012 10:47 AM
KWICKO
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)
Quote:Originally posted by Hero: The margin was around 2,000 votes and they had a problem with the machine count of early votes. Naturally the Democrats tried to limit the recount and the Republicans want a full recount. H Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012
Tuesday, November 13, 2012 11:00 AM
Tuesday, November 13, 2012 12:25 PM
Tuesday, November 20, 2012 7:20 AM
STORYMARK
Tuesday, November 20, 2012 8:58 AM
AURAPTOR
America loves a winner!
Tuesday, November 20, 2012 9:08 AM
Tuesday, November 20, 2012 9:23 AM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Sad day for America, when a bona fide war hero and an honorable man gets taken down.
Tuesday, November 20, 2012 10:01 AM
Tuesday, November 20, 2012 10:22 AM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Sad day for America, when a bona fide war hero and an honorable man gets taken down. Leave it to Niki to cheer for the ousting of a black man, being replaced by an old white guy, in the deep South.
Tuesday, November 20, 2012 10:53 AM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: I cry for the death of America. Mock me all you want, but it's true, and you know it. " I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "
Tuesday, November 20, 2012 11:31 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Storymark: I will continue to mock your delusions and whining. Because you warrant no better - and you know it. But thanks for crying. Your tears nourish me. :)
Tuesday, November 20, 2012 11:50 AM
Tuesday, November 20, 2012 11:54 AM
Quote:Originally posted by m52nickerson: ^^^^^^ Stupidity and douchbaggery incarnate, ladies and gentlemen. How sad will you be when the country continues to improve and all your blathering is shown to be nothing but so much passing gas? I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man. A warning to everyone, AURaptor is a known liar. ...and now a Fundie! http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=53359
Quote:Originally posted by m52nickerson: How sad will you be when the country continues to improve and all your blathering is shown to be nothing but so much passing gas?
Tuesday, November 20, 2012 12:07 PM
Tuesday, November 20, 2012 12:22 PM
Quote:If there is any phrase that can sum up Rep. Allen West (R-FL), it is ‘conduct unbecoming.’ He has gained fame by making outlandish and insulting comments and then chalking them up to being the quintessential ‘military man.' In reality, West is a man very much frozen in a moment in his life where he has lost control of himself and lost his military career as a result. Instead of dealing with that mistake, he has doubled down on it in his political career and become a hero to many because of it. While serving as a Battalion Commander in Taji, Iraq in 2004, West lost control and performed a “mock execution” on an unarmed, detained Iraqi police officer in front of junior soldiers. No hard intelligence leading to anything of value came of the incident. West claimed he was protecting himself and his soldiers and the victim gave information about a planned IED attack. There were hundreds of thousands of soldiers in Iraq in 2004, myself included, led by hundreds of Battalion Commanders who also wanted to protect their soldiers. None of them resorted to mock executions to do so. Everyone there was under threat. West's conduct was unbecoming of an officer. When an Article 32 investigation found that West violated articles of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, he was relieved of command, and fined $5,000. He was allowed to retire with full benefits. Brazen, rash, and insulting conduct is a continuing pattern for West. He has frequently and personally attacked President Obama and called his supporters a ‘threat to the gene pool’, famously attacked fellow Florida Rep. Debbie Wasserman-Schulz, railed against practicing-Muslim Rep. Keith Ellison (D-MN) for being a threat to ‘American principles’, and yesterday accused many congressional Democrats of being ‘communists’. West often justifies his conduct by citing his military service and claiming, “That’s the way it’s done in the military.” But it isn’t. In the military, when a leader has a dispute with peers, it can get rather ugly. But it is either handled publicly in a professional manner or privately in person and face-to-face. Things are certainly not sugarcoated and are often curt and to the point, but they are not dragged before the media or turned into a divisive whisper campaign that undermines unit or national cohesion. Everyone loses their control occasionally, but Allen West has an established pattern of conduct in which he frequently exhibits poor judgment or control of his behavior or actions. When questioned about it, he cites his time spent in the military, an institution which came to reject his conduct. Allen West does not represent the quintessential ‘military man’. His conduct in Iraq and his frequent outbursts in Congress are not in keeping with military tradition. It often appears that West is a man who is at war with the progressive worldview, which he blames for ending his military career. In truth, it was his own poor judgment and loss of control that ended his career. Unfortunately, he continues to behave in the same rash manner as a Representative in Congress as he did in Iraq. It is rather telling of what sort of an institution we have in our Congress when behavior the military rejects will win notoriety or applause in our politics. http://www.policymic.com/articles/6910/rep-allen-west-embodies-conduct-unbecoming
Tuesday, November 20, 2012 12:39 PM
Quote:Originally posted by m52nickerson: Well accept we have been smart enough to this point not to try and use austerity cuts deal with our deficit, nor are we part of a larger monetary system. Oh, and our dept to GDP ratio is not near what Greece’s is.
Tuesday, November 20, 2012 2:25 PM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Quote:Originally posted by Storymark: I will continue to mock your delusions and whining. Because you warrant no better - and you know it. But thanks for crying. Your tears nourish me. :)
Tuesday, November 20, 2012 2:29 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: Quote:Originally posted by m52nickerson: Well accept we have been smart enough to this point not to try and use austerity cuts deal with our deficit, nor are we part of a larger monetary system. Oh, and our dept to GDP ratio is not near what Greece’s is. And even if our dept to GDP ratio were more than 100%, we've survived worse. Some may recall them as "the Good Old Days" of the 1950s, where we came out of WWII with a dept-to-GDP ratio that had hit 121%, yet still paid most of it down within about a decade, without steep austerity measures, and WITH higher tax rates. "I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero "I was wrong" - Hero, 2012 Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!" Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."
Tuesday, November 20, 2012 2:54 PM
MAL4PREZ
Tuesday, November 20, 2012 2:58 PM
Quote:Originally posted by MAL4PREZ: To get back to the title of the thread...
Tuesday, November 20, 2012 3:25 PM
Tuesday, November 20, 2012 3:28 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: And even if our dept to GDP ratio were more than 100%, we've survived worse. Some may recall them as "the Good Old Days" of the 1950s, where we came out of WWII with a dept-to-GDP ratio that had hit 121%, yet still paid most of it down within about a decade, without steep austerity measures, and WITH higher tax rates.
Wednesday, November 21, 2012 5:17 AM
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