Mexican pack of stray dogs 'kills four' in park by Geezer

Mean sons of bitches.

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Tuesday, January 8, 2013 6:29 AM

STORYMARK

Huh, for a second there, reading the story, I thought that Mr. "Not Partisan" had finally posted something... non-partisan.

Boy, he sure showed me!

Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Tuesday, January 8, 2013 7:09 AM

AGENTROUKA

Non-sarcasm:

I'm all for dog regulation. Mandatory sterilization for all cats and dogs not expressly kept for breeding and mandatory obedience training for every dog owned, regardless of size or breed.

I really, really hate irresponsible dog owners.

ETA: And denying dog permits to anyone who cannot prove the time, space, money and commitment necessary to care for a dog appropriately.

I know it would be next to impossible to enforce, but it's what I wish existed.

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Tuesday, January 8, 2013 7:16 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
Huh, for a second there, reading the story, I thought that Mr. "Not Partisan" had finally posted something... non-partisan.

Boy, he sure showed me!

I ALMOST had that feeling, but it would be so unusual, I figured there was something else to it.

Reely, reeeely stupid sarcasm!

And I, by the way, happen to agree 100% with Agent. I would add that it would be nice if puppy mills were outlawed in our country, as well, since they contribute hugely to the overpopulation of dogs (not to mention the abuse and cruelty).

But neither that nor the initial post have anything to do with anything, except Geezer's desire to snark at gun-control advocates in a particularly inane and totally unrelated fashion.

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Tuesday, January 8, 2013 7:31 AM

I guess you can't really blame hungry dogs for attacking people. You gotta wonder what's up with Mexico city though. You'd have to have both poor management of the dog population through official means but also bad garbage management. I rather doubt these dogs tend to make a meal of humans every few months, so they have to mostly be eating whatever people leave out.

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Tuesday, January 8, 2013 9:23 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

I knew I didn't ever have any desire to go to Mexico City, now I have further reasons why, yikes!

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Wednesday, January 9, 2013 1:18 AM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Oh hell, I'm just surprised Geezer didn't just go ahead and accuse Obama of selling illegal dogs to Mexican cartels.

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Wednesday, January 9, 2013 3:32 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
But neither that nor the initial post have anything to do with anything, except Geezer's desire to snark at gun-control advocates in a particularly inane and totally unrelated fashion.

Why unrelated?

I was just paraphrasing the response of anti-gun advocates every time there's a gun-related crime.

I could do the same with articles about drownings(ban the pools, bathtubs,buckets, etc.), or pedestrians hit by cars(ban the cars), or people stabbed(ban the knives), or fatal accidents caused by drunk drivers(ban the booze...but we know how that turned out).

In pretty much every other fatality-causing situation, the response is to educate, control, or prosecute the person involved. Only in gun-related crimes is there so vocal a call to ban the tool. Ever wonder why?

BTW, in England, they've effectively banned firearms and knives, so now the crooks are getting million volt stunguns, which can be deadly, to use in robberies and assaults.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20929987

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Wednesday, January 9, 2013 6:36 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:

In pretty much every other fatality-causing situation, the response is to educate, control, or prosecute the person involved. Only in gun-related crimes is there so vocal a call to ban the tool. Ever wonder why?

It's easier to try and ban stuff not everybody uses than stuff literally everybody uses.
Like in school, when there is a fight, it's easier to suspend both kids than to try and find out who actually started the fight.
The response to anything is usually the easiest response.
Because thinking is so difficult.

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Wednesday, January 9, 2013 7:25 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
Oh hell, I'm just surprised Geezer didn't just go ahead and accuse Obama of selling illegal dogs to Mexican cartels.

Excellent. That about sums up this thread.

Byte, virtually ALL third-world countries have similar problems; dogs aren't valued, so they run loose or are turned loose, procreate. vie for food sources, and away you go.

In Kabul they used to have an annual "culling" of the city's wild dog/cat population. I won't go into details, suffice it to say there were so many, that's the only way they kept the population SOMEWHAT under control.

Also, they raised Alsatians there. Some always got free, mated with local wolves, and became what they called "Alswolves"--they'd roam the compound walls at night (I even saw them twice).

Beyond that, Afghanistan is one place where wolves DO attack humans...

Quote:
The heaviest winter snowfall in a decade across parts of Afghanistan has sent packs of wolfs from their usual habitat into populated areas, where locals say at least four people have been devoured by the animals. http://www.wolfsongalaska.org/Afghan_Wolf_Attacks

I won't give details of the rest of the story...

Groups of wild dogs are a problem in every country where dogs aren't valued, ignorance pervades, and dog/cat population isn't controlled. We even have that problem in parts of America. So just about anywhere you travel (except probably Europe and England) it's potentially a problem.

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Wednesday, January 9, 2013 9:02 AM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Quote:
Oh hell, I'm just surprised Geezer didn't just go ahead and accuse Obama of selling illegal dogs to Mexican cartels.

Excellent. That about sums up this thread.

Or any post from our resident senile old man, really.

Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Wednesday, January 9, 2013 9:13 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Well, yeah, there is that...

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Wednesday, January 9, 2013 9:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:

In pretty much every other fatality-causing situation, the response is to educate, control, or prosecute the person involved. Only in gun-related crimes is there so vocal a call to ban the tool. Ever wonder why?
It's easier to try and ban stuff not everybody uses than stuff literally everybody uses.
Like in school, when there is a fight, it's easier to suspend both kids than to try and find out who actually started the fight.
The response to anything is usually the easiest response.
Because thinking is so difficult.

It also makes less sense to try to ban things which have other legitimate uses besides killing.

A hammer can be used to kill. But it can also be used to drive nails, to build a house or shelter.

A knife can be used to kill, but can also be used to cut food or perform surgery.

A gun can only shoot; it has no other intended purpose. It's not a tool that was designed for one thing and then someone decided to use it to kill. It was designed from the outset to kill. And high-cap mags are designed to make it possible to kill more people more quickly without any need to stop and reload.

Ask yourself why you can't have a nuclear device or a Claymore shaped charge for home defense.

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Wednesday, January 9, 2013 9:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Quote:
Oh hell, I'm just surprised Geezer didn't just go ahead and accuse Obama of selling illegal dogs to Mexican cartels.

Excellent. That about sums up this thread.

Or any post from our resident senile old man, really.

Particularly hilarious given how much time he spends crying about "false equivalence".

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Wednesday, January 9, 2013 10:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

Ask yourself why you can't have a nuclear device or a Claymore shaped charge for home defense.

Since WHEN???

How about this angle, a hammer can be used to drive nails, to build a house so you can have shelter.

A knife can be used to cut food or perform surgery, so you can eat or recover from a malady.

A gun can be used to defend your life, so you can live.

See? Tool. Primarily not to kill, to help you survive- the part where someone gets killed is the responsibility of the evildoer who forces you to hit him with your hammer, stab him with your steak knife, then shoot him with your PPK.

Just a different perspective.

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Wednesday, January 9, 2013 10:12 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
BTW, in England, they've effectively banned firearms and knives, so now the crooks are getting million volt stunguns, which can be deadly, to use in robberies and assaults.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20929987

I think the move will be to properly enforce the ban and get rid of those too. But this must sound like Utopia to you Americans - drug dealers fighting each other with stun guns...

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Wednesday, January 9, 2013 10:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
But this must sound like Utopia to you Americans - drug dealers fighting each other with stun guns...

When stun guns are illegal, only criminals will have them.

Stun guns don't shock people, forks in wall sockets shock people.

Shocking. Positively shocking.

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Wednesday, January 9, 2013 10:22 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

"A gun can be used to defend your life, so you can live."

BUT NOT PRIMARILY! And that is not how they are PRIMARILY utilized. The PRIMARY use of a gun is to kill. You can come up with other reasons for a gun, like "to take over the government", but both that and the one you offer are by FAR the least reasons guns are used. That's not a matter of perspective. It's a matter of bias and an effort to create a false equivalency.

We've already debunked Kleck's figure of 2.5 million instances of guns used for self-defense; unless you can show valid figures on how many guns are used in self-defense...and how many are EFFECTIVE in self-defense, you are stating an incorrect analogy.

Not only that, KPO, it sounds like it would be funnier than hell to watch. Not to mention the fact that, if only stun guns were available, there'd be far less violence, period. I don't fantasize about no guns, I dream of a day when semi-auto and auto weapons might not exist among the general public...

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Wednesday, January 9, 2013 10:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:

A gun can be used to defend your life, so you can live.

And as I've pointed out before, ad nauseum, an assault rifle is singularly useless for a home-defense weapon. Why? Because you're firing primarily copper-jacketed bullets at several thousand feet per second - these rounds don't hit the wall and stop. They go through walls - yours AND your neighbor's - and they go through people - your family, your attacker, AND your neighbors.

There is no need at all for such weaponry in the home. Shotguns and average handguns are more than sufficient.

And if you think you're trying to protect yourself from the big, bad, tyrannical government, start by cutting off the funding for the military. Duh, idiots. You keep modernizing the military while claiming to fear your government taking over, and you can't figure out how fucking stupid that really makes you look to anyone with a brain.

But then again, we're dealing with the same moronic right-wingers here who swore up and down - and still do - that Saddam had WMD when we invaded Iraq.

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Wednesday, January 9, 2013 10:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:

Beyond that, is there any possibility this thread can return to its original topic, or any other, rather than becoming yet another gun thread???

You may not have noticed, but this thread was started as a veiled gun thread.

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Wednesday, January 9, 2013 10:32 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Yeah, sorry about that...I forgot momentarily what the PURPOSE of this thread was, and remembered how we'd gotten into dogs and wolves. Silly me. I edited it out.

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Wednesday, January 9, 2013 10:35 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:

A gun can be used to defend your life, so you can live.

And as I've pointed out before, ad nauseum, an assault rifle is singularly useless for a home-defense weapon. Why? Because you're firing primarily copper-jacketed bullets at several thousand feet per second - these rounds don't hit the wall and stop. They go through walls - yours AND your neighbor's - and they go through people - your family, your attacker, AND your neighbors.

There is no need at all for such weaponry in the home. Shotguns and average handguns are more than sufficient.

And if you think you're trying to protect yourself from the big, bad, tyrannical government, start by cutting off the funding for the military. Duh, idiots. You keep modernizing the military while claiming to fear your government taking over, and you can't figure out how fucking stupid that really makes you look to anyone with a brain.

But then again, we're dealing with the same moronic right-wingers here who swore up and down - and still do - that Saddam had WMD when we invaded Iraq.

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

Good post.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Wednesday, January 9, 2013 10:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:

is there any possibility this thread can return to its original topic

In 1985 I was chased by a pack of wild dogs though a deserted area of Roosevelt Field on Long Island around 1am; it was lead by a German Shepherd.
I was able to pedal my bike faster than I knew was possible & made it to a busy street where they broke off.
Next day I purchased a Rambo knife so in case it happened again and they took me off the bike I'd stand a good chance (I could not avoid that route; there was no other between me & my girlfriend's house). I rode with it for months when a cop pulled me over to ask why I was riding so late at night. After the usual bored-cop 5 minute hassle, he suddenly noticed the knife in plain sight in its sheath. He took it from me saying it was illegal to carry (despite the precinct check that I made saying that it was).
Point of this somewhat topically related story?

I don't know.

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Wednesday, January 9, 2013 10:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:

A gun can be used to defend your life, so you can live.

And as I've pointed out before, ad nauseum, an assault rifle is singularly useless for a home-defense weapon.

I was advocating only hammers, knives, and a small PPK....

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Wednesday, January 9, 2013 11:03 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Chris, given what you said about the precinct check, I would check it off to a bad cop--perhaps an over-zealous one, or just ignorant in the laws he was supposed to enforce.

I'm glad you didn't experience that again, I can't imagine too many things more frightening! And most people can't out-pedal dogs, by the way, so congrats! German shepherds top out at about 32 mph; fastest dogs (greyhounds of course) at 40 mph, horses at about 30 mph. The average human on a bicycle is about 20 mph. Obviously there are FAR faster speeds recorded, but those are by pro athletes.

So you did good, man!

Also, given you clarified you were only talking about regular guns, tho' I still disagree about their primary usage, your point is well taken.

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Wednesday, January 9, 2013 11:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Chris, given what you said about the precinct check, I would check it off to a bad cop--perhaps an over-zealous one, or just ignorant in the laws he was supposed to enforce.

Heh, I got the knife back later when I showed the precinct dude a drawing I made of the officer- he didn't issue me a receipt, making its confiscation kind of...er.. illegal. But it had been finely sharpened upon its return, so not all bad.
Quote:

most people can't out-pedal dogs, by the way, so congrats! German shepherds top out at about 32 mph; The average human on a bicycle is about 20 mph.
I was 25 years old, a martial artist, and rode 20 miles a day, and the four of them were still gaining on me all the way to the busy street. These days I'd be shredded.

I guess my larger point is, some people HAVE reasons to carry or own a weapon, aren't nuts, and can be trusted to be of no danger to themselves or the community at large.

But the police would rather clean up a few bloody messes than entrust the trustworthy citizens with the power only THEY, in their infinite wisdom as higher beings, should be entitled to wield.

For this reason alone, I cannot sanction banning guns. If we were to go all civilized and not arm ordinary police officers and security guards, then yeah, I'd be up for a ban.
But that would necessitate a whole plethora of sweeping changes to our country that I don't see happening in this millennia...

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Wednesday, January 9, 2013 11:40 AM

Well... Frankly, chris, I suspect that your cop who took your knife wasn't really interested in enforcing any laws or protecting the public so much as getting a cool looking new knife without much possibility for recrimination.

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Wednesday, January 9, 2013 11:49 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Good! I'm glad they gave it back to you; aside from him not having given you a receipt, I think they recognized the stupidity, and maybe used the lack of a receipt as an excuse to return it? Interesting it had been sharpened...hmmmm...

Well, good on you for getting away from the dogs anyway--I think anybody here would most likely be shredded, even the young and healthy among us! Another reason I love huskies; they look fierce to the uneducated, but are LOUSEY watchdogs, much preferring to run up to someone and jump on them to lick them than ever attack anyone. The only thing they'd ever chase are deer, small, helpless critters, cats (which aren't in the "helpless" category, in my opinion!), which I excuse because it's natural prey drive and they can be trained out of it. And of course people playing with them!

I would disagree somewhat about your words regarding the police, given they are almost always better trained and more accustomed to utilizing guns than the average citizen who might buy one for supposed "self-protection", but I agree fully that banning all guns--much less confiscating existing ones!--is insanity. It's not something I can even imagine ever happening in America, and I happen to believe those who fear it aren't dealing with reality. It's only what is commonly understood as "assault weapons" which I firmly believe have no use in self-defense and are NOT purchased as such.

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Wednesday, January 9, 2013 12:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
It's only what is commonly understood as "assault weapons" which I firmly believe have no use in self-defense and are NOT purchased as such.

War weapons should be banned, period IMO. No one but GW uses "Assault weapons" for 'self-defence' purposes.

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Wednesday, January 9, 2013 12:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Well... Frankly, chris, I suspect that your cop who took your knife wasn't really interested in enforcing any laws or protecting the public so much as getting a cool looking new knife without much possibility for recrimination.

It was a great knife too. Expensive.
To balance this, about 2/3 of my dealings with the police have NOT been with bully-asswipes wearing a badge.

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Wednesday, January 9, 2013 4:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:

A gun can be used to defend your life, so you can live.

And as I've pointed out before, ad nauseum, an assault rifle is singularly useless for a home-defense weapon.
I was advocating only hammers, knives, and a small PPK....

All of which I'm totally down with.

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Wednesday, January 9, 2013 4:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

All of which I'm totally down with.

Even the PPK?!
Kind of like a girl's gun though....

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Wednesday, January 9, 2013 9:02 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
No one but GW uses "Assault weapons" for 'self-defence' purposes.

Uhhhh...

Technically Forquet is an assault weapon, and within its range substantially nastier than an assault rifle - that said, I've loaded it with rubber ball shot, not out of any real humanitarian notions, but rather to reduce the mess and collateral damage potential.
You also leave out ranchers, farmers, and suchlike who might carry an AK-knockoff while checking fences.

-F

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Thursday, January 10, 2013 4:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

All of which I'm totally down with.
Even the PPK?!
Kind of like a girl's gun though....

James Bond walks into the room...

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Thursday, January 10, 2013 11:02 AM