Time to Go. (public service message: this may be a goodbye thread) by RionaEire

Firstly, there is that passive aggressive thing happening again, Rione. I can only say I hope you don't try such tricks/experients on your real life friends because I don't think its either pleasant or moral to do so.

Are you referring to the Hitler thread? Can't see any other that might apply. From memory, you got a wide range of HONEST responses, which is more honesty than you have shown us by yet another of your experiments.

What were you expecting? That everyone would back you up? In my view, friends also give you negative feedback if they don't agree with what you are doing. That's the honesty thing again.

And lastly, what do you expect from an internet forum? I think Sig said it awhile back, most of us only show parts of ourselves - who we are - what we do or think. Is that enough for the same kind of friendship as in RW? In my view, that happens rarely and if you got one real friend out of this experience, you are doing better than me - not my aim incidentally.

So I am kind of wondering, is this thread also one of your 'experiments'. I feel mighty uncomfortable about all of this.

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Friday, March 15, 2013 1:28 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

I'll be sorry to see you go Riona.

I think I better start my goodbye thread soon, before everyone else beats me to it.

What specifically upset you Riona?

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Friday, March 15, 2013 1:58 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Riona, I would be sorry for you to leave. OTOH, if you are leaving because you got some responses that you didn't like in the Hilter thread, I'm not sure that is a valid reason.

I looked thru the thread (admittedly, before it was completed so maybe there was something I missed) and I didn't see anything mean. I saw answers that ranged from supportive to answers that tread very, very lightly (I believe) on what the poster truly wanted to say, all so as not to hurt your feelings. Again, maybe something I missed, but I thought you got treated rather gently by the very wide range of personalities who come here.

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Saturday, March 16, 2013 9:27 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Riona, responding publicly to state that I'd be sad to see you go if you truly do; will say more privately.

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Saturday, March 16, 2013 12:57 PM

Magons: It's not an experiment this time as far as I know. She really has decided that this board doesn't help her with things anymore.

I've suggested that it might be hard for her to tell what she might feel so soon after coming off of that Hitler thread, where she also felt like I was siding against her, but she's pretty determined. It's the one thing I've always noticed about our Riona - always determined. And I can respect that. So if she says she's heading out, I'm not really going to argue it.

Heck knows I've tried to leave like a million times. But I've kinda given up on leaving, it never sticks.

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Monday, March 18, 2013 2:41 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

That Hitler thread was an honest thread, I didn't make up those experiences. The only experiment was to see if everyone would be as unkind to me when I posted an event from my real life as they are to others sometimes when they do. this thread isn't experimental, except that initially I felt like it _may be a goodbye thread and now, thanks to Magon's, I know it is a goodbye thread.

If anyone wishes to continue communicating with me they can email me or PM me, I'm too lazy to delete my account. I'll watch for a while and I know it might be hard not to post, I see a thread on the list about mental illness which I'm itching to post to, but I've decided and I, at least for now, won't yield.

I'm thankful for the time we've had and I'm glad for the oppertunities to visit online with all y'all. But I spend enough energy posting and investing in this community that if I don't feel like you guys are really my friends there's no point at this juncture, at least no point I can assertain.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Monday, March 18, 2013 3:56 PM

JONGSSTRAW

You shouldn't let any of the putzes here, including maybe me, chase you away from something you've been a part of and seemed to have enjoyed. I find it almost impossible to believe that any person could be so thin-skinned and narrow-minded that they would choose to forsake a great forum like RWED. Yeah, I said great, great because it's all over the map, representing all views and opinions. And there's fun stuff, even psycho stuff too, which add to the cornucopia of both clarity and confusion. If you really want everyone to love you there are plenty of rigidly ideological places on the net to hang out. Everyone there will agree with you, and you will agree with them. But jeeez, how booooooring!

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Monday, March 18, 2013 5:37 PM

CANTTAKESKY

Hey, Rione. I am sorry to see you go. We've all had it with this place, on and off. So I understand.

It is hard to make friends, real life friends, on a board like this. But I think if I met you in person, we'd have a hoot. I have to say that there are a few people I have met here that I would love to meet in person, whom I would be honored to be a real friend. You're one of them.

And god bless Byte, she is friends with everyone. A good egg, that one, no matter what she says about herself.

-----

Disobedience is not an issue if obedience is not the goal.

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Monday, March 18, 2013 5:56 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

CTS, :)) Thanks.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Tuesday, March 19, 2013 9:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
That Hitler thread was an honest thread, I didn't make up those experiences. The only experiment was to see if everyone would be as unkind to me when I posted an event from my real life as they are to others sometimes when they do. this thread isn't experimental, except that initially I felt like it _may be a goodbye thread and now, thanks to Magon's, I know it is a goodbye thread.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

Sorry, where was your real life experience where people were unkind to you? I reread the Hitler thread, and I struggle to find one unkind post there. In fact, I can't really think when anyone has been unkind to you on this board. The worst thing that has probably been said about you is that you can be passive aggressive (that was me) and I still think that is true.

I never said that the thread was made up, but I feel kind of weird when you use posts to test me (and others) But that may be just me. I don't like to feel tricked into responding, which is what I feel you sometimes do.

If you feel you don't want to come here because of my response, I wouldn't bother worrying. I hardly do more than check in here every few days, and often find nothing to respond.

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Wednesday, March 20, 2013 3:43 AM

I test people too. I don't really design experiments like Riona does, but I float comments and talk about my experiences to see how people react. It's how I get feedback for whether anyone cares about me or my personal issues (answer: they don't).

But if I let general apathy/irritation towards my person stop me, I'd never get anything done. So I'm still here I guess, still talking with people, and it doesn't even matter anymore if people want to be friends with me or not. This is the internet, I'm pretty sure the vast majority of it doesn't care about anything. I've come to accept that, and to accept that probably none of this means anything. I'm not anyone special, I'm not going to change minds, let alone change the world. That's just reality.

So it's not so much that I'm friends with everyone, it's more that I'm irrelevant and I've worn out my welcome and I know it. My life is basically this enormous emptiness that can't really be filled, and I have a sneaking suspicion I was just born that way. So I post on the internet because I pretty much have nothing else.

Have a nice day!

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Wednesday, March 20, 2013 4:44 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
So it's not so much that I'm friends with everyone, it's more that I'm irrelevant and I've worn out my welcome and I know it. My life is basically this enormous emptiness that can't really be filled, and I have a sneaking suspicion I was just born that way. So I post on the internet because I pretty much have nothing else.

:(

I know I've tried and failed before, so this probably won't work either, but I wish I could convince you how completely NOT irrelevant you are. I very much enjoy your presence, and the only irritation I feel is when you start beating yourself up or seeing dislike that's just not there.

I'm glad you haven't left, and your current devil-may-care approach has given me several guffaws.

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Wednesday, March 20, 2013 4:47 AM

Riona: I don't really understand your particular reasons for leaving, but I do understand the urge. I've left plenty of times LOL! Have a nice break, and I hope that like most of us you'll be drawn back, and still have good times ahead on RWED. You're part of the crew now and always will be, even if you take a break.

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Wednesday, March 20, 2013 6:01 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Okay, I finally took the time to read the "Hitler thread" and come back to this one. I'm perplexed, and I admit somewhat suspicious. First of all, I couldn't find any kind of "diss" or put down of you in that thread, Riona, much less nastiness. People gave their opinions, and most seemed to be trying to educate you on how someone who empathizes with a certain group (in this case Druids), especially a group not well known or understood, might respond to the more popular beliefs of others. I found nothing wrong in the person's remark, and I can see how he and those like him might view St. Patrick as a "Hitlerian" figure. I don't think it's melodramatic, just someone saying "no, I'm not like most people who are unaware of what Patrick did, for my people he's a horrible figure, not a good one". That's just my answer to the question you posed in the thread.

I don't doubt the experience was an honest one, but how it was utilized and for what purposes, I question. Because nowhere do I see any kind of nastiness aimed at you personally. I have to admit, having read what you now write about the thread, I feel somewhat negatively about your intent; this isn't the first time either you or Byte, I forget which, has set up a scenario as a "test", and I don't think it's particularly an honest thing to do. Quite possibly others have done similar things, but they haven't come back to tell everyone afterward that it was some kind of test. Doing so gives me an unpleasant feeling; doing so for your own purposes is one thing, doing so then essentially saying "you were all tested and found wanting" doesn't endear me to anyone. Nobody I know of is here to prove themselves as a "better" person than anyone else.

When suspicion starts, I find myself thinking about the situation in a larger frame, and I can't help wondering if, consciously or otherwise, all the fuss around your thread regarding Anthony and I being missing, then my saying I was leaving because someone I believed respected me became aggressively unpleasant and unfair, started something for you. The timing is strange; so is your stating you were leaving and attributing it to a thread where I'm DAMNED if I can find people treating you unkindly.

For one thing, your first post after putting up the thread thanked people for their responses and said there were "some" reasonable responses. I can't see a single UNreasonable response, so I don't know where that came from. All in all, I feel pretty mistrustful of your motives...I start wondering if you needed attention, or were trying to make some point to back up something I said about why I was leaving, or were just playing with us, or the short disagreement you had with Byte in that thread became something else for you (tho' it certainly seemed to be solved there)...I don't know, I just found my mind wandering around momentarily trying to figure out WHY you did all this. It's not important enough for me to cogitate on for long, but I don't think this "public service message" is what it pretends to be. I agree with Magons.

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Wednesday, March 20, 2013 6:57 AM

Niki, I think that Riona is someone with such a personality and upbringing that she's really not used to people disagreeing with her, so when it happens, it becomes actually quite upsetting even if there wasn't any negativity that we intended.

Also I did inadvertently push some trigger buttons for Riona which would have certainly unsettled her.

I think this thread is entirely sincere.

As for my tests, I never advertised them, but it's what convinced me that I'm more than somewhat intolerable and that no one has any interest in me. My methodology was impeccable and the results are beyond dispute. I've just decided recently that isn't any reason to leave and I'm starting to decide that there's no reason to take that out on other people even in the form of harmless if incessant trolling.

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Wednesday, March 20, 2013 1:19 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

Cav's response was obviously the meanest, he thinks he knows everything about everything and ... yeah. As for the others of you, I don't mind people disagreeing with me, its common enough given where I live and my divergent opinions from those around me, both in my community (Portland) and in my circle of friends (many pagans among them, but none who have a problem with my enjoyment of March 17th). And then people like Magon's and Niki get all weird for no reason, weird.

Who knows Byte, with determination and proper noteriety, or ananimity perhaps depending on the situation, you very well could change the world for the better, don't give up just yet.

Upon further reflection, Cav is definitely who I'm really mad at, he insinuated that I don't care about Irish culture, which ultimately was very unkind, does he not read my posts? Maybe I'm not vocal enough about how my inner being is Irish and I perform trad. Furthermore he insinuates that I'm just a mean closed minded person. Sure there are a few things that I'm closed minded about and I admit that without reservation. But his lack of the knowing of me is unsavory. I feel like people don't really listen to each other on this forum as much as you'd think they would. I know a bucket load about all of you, only based on what you've posted of course, but I remember what people say and no one else seems to do that. So Cav, even though I know more about him than I need to, doesn't know anything about me, or at least very little. friends know things about each other and pay attention to each other.

I just don't think we're friends on here, except for Byte of course, because I knew her long before I came on here. And when I think someone's my friend then they go do silly stuff which indicates to me otherwise. I guess I've just gotten tired of waiting for it to turn a corner. I'm used to being disagreed with, but what Cav did was something beyond that, he was insinuating things about me that are unfair, especially since he's not observant enough to have gotten to know me over 2 years.

I think that's what I'm actually upset about.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Wednesday, March 20, 2013 1:38 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Holy shit! Cav had exactly ONE reply in your "Hitler thread":

Quote:
Um. Byte sorta covered this, Riona, but yeah, St. Patrick was responsible for KILLING/CONVERTING THROUGH TORTURE the Druids in Ireland and drove the practice of Druidism entirely underground. Before St. Patrick, Ireland was pretty much all Druidic, so "driving the snakes out of Ireland" wasn't just shutting down some obscure priesthood, but the wholesale destruction of the indigenous culture of Ireland. It's a big deal.

So, yeah, genocide, and forced conversions (cultural genocide) were the order of the day. It is debated whether or not he and his church destroyed Druidic practice completely or not. Of course, many of its traditions were appropriated by the Catholics in their rituals and holiday celebrations.

And now after a couple minutes googling, I see that this information is readily available on the internet. Riona, if you cared, all you would have had to do was look it up instead of presuming that this guy was crazy. I find your breezy dismissal of the cultural devastation wrought by your heroes pretty disturbing. Have at least a little tact. Ignorance is no excuse when anyone can google.

And what you get out of that is that he "insinuated that I don't care about Irish culture," "that I'm just a mean closed minded person", and that he doesn't remember your "inner being" is Irish and you do "trad" (whatever that is)???

Holy shit. There simply are no words...you reeeely, really think that people here take notes on one another, consider each other friends enough to remember their hobbies, likes, dislikes, and try to be considerate of all their beliefs? HOW long have you been on RWED exactly?

Byte, anyone who considers anyone else on this forum, or this site, or even the internet, a "friend", who hasn't met that person and shared SOMETHING with them in the real world, is just begging to be smacked upside the haid! We're not FRIENDS...we're a bunch of people who share a love of a science fiction TV series, and we end up in THIS forum because we enjoy yakking about things OTHER than that TV series.

It was silly enough that I let myself get disappointed by Frem's actual ATTACKS on me, when I thought we were somewhat more friendly than the usual posters here because we've talked a lot in e-mail, shared videos, and I sent a gift to Wendy. But because one person posted his opinion (which you ASKED for, by the way) and didn't remember you're feelings about the Irish and told you that calling someone crazy without thinking about how they felt when you assumed they liked St. Patrick...all THIS?

I gotta go. I'm laughing too damned hard...I truly am sorry you got your feelings hurt, I wouldn't wish that on anyone. But now that I know more of the whys and wherefores, I'm afraid my sympathy is somewhat less.

This place is funnier than hell sometimes...

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Wednesday, March 20, 2013 1:47 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

And that less than thrilling, but all be it rather humorous, display is why I don't have time for this place anymore. If 2 years of my emotional investment in a community gets me no more than _that, then its obvious its time to move on in my travels.

You too planned to leave because of your disagreement with one person as I recall not so very long ago. The difference being that you and Frem are friends, or at least you were. You also get quite upset at the comments of individuals on this board, though you claim otherwise sometimes, claiming that no one can hurt you etc. Everyone can be hurt, at least everyone with feelings and the ability to care about others, including you.
"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Wednesday, March 20, 2013 1:53 PM

People donated to send you to the Gulf Niki, to help with the oil spill cleanup.

...Something is wrong here. Laughing at Riona for being upset. Telling me I shouldn't get insulted.

It occurs to me that none of us probably wants to spend any more time on this.

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Wednesday, March 20, 2013 2:30 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

"You too planned to leave because of your disagreement with one person as I recall not so very long ago." The DIFFERENCE, dear, is that Frem said quite deliberately vicious things about and to me, accused me of having a hidden agenda, of having lied (more than once), and many, many more very overt things, all of which were demonstrably not true and I carefully chronicled where he was wrong. Most especially he claimed I posted something AFTER it had been proven wrong, which was flat-out untrue and easily shown to be so.

Cav, by contrast, offered an opinion, a slightly sharp one perhaps, but not overtly vicious in any way. To compare the two is laughable.

I also spent considerable time and effort trying to sort things out with Frem, explaining how he'd misunderstood and even attempted to sort it out with him in private. You took one post and ran with it as an excuse to completely quit the forum; you have every right to do so, no disagreement, this place isn't necessarily healthy we all agree. But to see the reason you give for being so upset and feeling you need to leave made me shake my head. It doesn't make a lot of sense.

You have every right to leave or stay, I'm not saying you should do either, I just think it's pretty silly to take such offense and make such a big deal out of it, compared to all the truly offensive and insulting things that fly left and right around here--and you did write somewhere that "people" were cruel or unkind or something about a personal experience you shared...that just doesn't jive with what actually happened.

Never said you shouldn't be insulted, Byte. SNARKED that you felt insulted in another thread, when by far the most insulting things had been said to and about us on the other side and the remarks you found insulting weren't even directed at you.

Am I feeling well? Cute. Nice try, but better players have done it more effectively. And less transparently. I feel fine; what I am is suddenly very sick of the games I think both of you play and how you back one another up, and just today, less willing to be charitable toward people who play little games. Tomorrow I will make more effort to be pleasant.

But today, "2 years of my emotional investment in a community", that just makes me giggle. What exactly are we supposed to provide as a "return" on that "investment"? I guess I didn't get the contract, 'cuz folks, if this place is an "investment" for you, hooo, boy, we're the LEAST of your problems! I just envision some kind of huffy middle-aged woman with her nose in the air, "well, I NEVER...!"

What a laugh. I'm outta here. Enjoy your huff.

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Wednesday, March 20, 2013 4:03 PM

Niki, listen to me, I'm dead serious here. I took out the "are you feeling well" thing in my previous post precisely because I didn't want to come across that way, but I'm very concerned.

You're starting to sound like me, and it is freaking me out. In fact, a lot of people on the board are. This is either some kind of "giving me a taste of my own medicine thing" or I have done something very, very wrong.

And the second alternative is too horrifying for me to ignore.

It has suddenly become blindingly obvious that I am a bad influence on this board, and that there's only one thing I can do that will help.

I am very, very sorry. For everything.

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Wednesday, March 20, 2013 4:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Niki, listen to me, I'm dead serious here.

You're starting to sound like me, and it is freaking me out. In fact, a lot of people on the board are. This is either some kind of "giving me a taste of my own medicine thing" or I have done something very, very wrong.

And the second alternative is too horrifying for me to ignore.

That you're imagining things? You are. Well, not imagining, but misinterpreting.

If you ever had any respect for me, believe this now: there is no problem with you. You don't need to be a part of the little bout going on in other threads. I find you much more open minded and flexible than CTS, and I wish you had not taken any of my statements to her as applicable to you.

You said it yourself: you do NOT have the beliefs as her. (I should be saying this there - maybe I'll cross post.) You don't blame a voter for everything that goes wrong based on a single vote. So why did you take my criticisms or that statement on yourself?

Really, you are not a problem here, and you are not a bad influence. The only one making that judgement of yourself is you. Like all of us, everything you experience goes through a filter. Your filter is quite strong though. Your self-hatred is hurting you more than anyone else ever could.

I have never seen anyone on these boards get down on you like you get down on yourself. I wished you'd cut yourself some slack!

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Wednesday, March 20, 2013 6:24 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

Byte, I know you feel like what you wrote above, but I doubt that your influence could rub off enough on people on here to be the cause of unrest in this thread or others. I for one have never felt your influence to be harmful to me personally in any way, I know that it does feel quite volitile around here for now, but it always blows over I guess. I bet tomorrow or in a few days everyone will be back to how they normally are. If its anyone's fault it is mine, I've stirred the pot so to speak. But after this thread I won't be on here to stir the pot anymore, so others will have to stir it instead. I don't think you're the one who stirred it today though, at least not in this thread.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Wednesday, March 20, 2013 8:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Niki, I think that Riona is someone with such a personality and upbringing that she's really not used to people disagreeing with her, so when it happens, it becomes actually quite upsetting even if there wasn't any negativity that we intended.

Yeah, I think that is true for some people, Byte. Nicely put.

I guess all of us have to work out whether this forum is useful of destructive for us personally and whether we want to participate in it or whether we need a break.

Personally, I found this to be a very contructive forum (for myself at least). I haven't felt attacked, except for Kane maybe, but he was nuts. Even PN can occasionally be amusing.

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Thursday, March 21, 2013 6:26 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Geeez, Byte, get a grip! First and foremost, don't bother getting "concerned", we're not friends and I'm not going to spend time trying to make you feel good. I certainly don't look to YOU to tell me I'm doing fine with my bipolarity--you might as well have said it straight out, your efforts at subtlety were pathetic. I'm just fine--the only difference now is that I'm aware my frustration level goes up faster; it's no problem, I just don't choose to pussy-foot around at the moment. I don't respect people who play games; I respect people who are up front and honest, and you two haven't been, in setting up little "experiments" and judging us all...especially Riona, trashing the entire membership because Cav made some remark that hurt her feelings. Good gawd. Talk about a "poor me" thread!

There's no way I sound like you, you're all about how horrible you are, how evil and dangerous and so forth and we'd just better watch out! I don't threaten anyone, I don't play games or set up tests for people like you do, and I'm certainly not interested in giving you a taste of whatever you think is your own "medicine"...you sure do take things personally!

Mal4 is right; neither you nor anyone else here is important enough on their own to change anything...I'm amazed you think you're that powerful! No, I'm not...see above paragraph. Don't give yourself so much self-importance, kiddo, NOBODY here is that important.

"A lot"? I find that hard if not impossible to believe, and they must all be talking to you off the forum, because there's nothing here and what I'M getting in PM and e-mail is exactly the opposite.

If what you said about Riona and disagreement is true, this is the LAST place on Gawd's Green Earth she belongs! She's more than welcome to get offended or insulted by me, as is anyone, but it's pretty ridiculous to say what Cav wrote is driving her off the board or complain about what she got for an "emotional investment" in this place, and even moreso to claim that she was mistreated/attacked/whatever for her personal experience in that other thread. It simply IS NOT THERE! It's about as reasonable a thread as any I've seen here, and I find the timing and her claims highly suspect, that's all.

I've never figured what the hell you get out of trashing yourself CONSTANTLY, and I'm not nearly as nice as Mal4; I think quite possibly it's some kind of subconscious desire to be more important than you think you are, or gain pity, or something--hell, I duno, but it's pretty silly and you've been doing it for a long time. By now you're WELL aware that insisting you're some kind of monster gets no response except for people to tell you you're not and for those who are kind to feel bad for you and wish you'd like yourself more. In my opinion, you have something invested in your "monster" personna, and you state quite clearly that you have no intention of ever doing anything to try and make yourself happier. So what your purpose is in continuing your claims escapes me. It does something for you, obviously, or you wouldn't keep it up, but nobody's buying it, and you don't influence anything any more than does anyone else.

All this is just plain silly and we've all wasted far more time on it than it deserves. I'd like to get back to the far more interesting real world, so go right on with your games, I hope they give you whatever it is you seek.

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Friday, March 22, 2013 7:05 AM

I did not know that your medications had changed, and I was not asking about your bipolar disorder or making snide insinuations. It hadn't even occurred to me that this could be anything to do with bipolar disorder. And I do not use people's struggles with mental illness as ammunition against them in an argument.

You were acting unusually, from my experience with your usual composed behaviour, and so I asked. I wanted to know if something had you stressed out, or if something had happened to you or a friend. Sometimes it pays to not assume that someone's behaviour is entirely the result of oneself or arguments at hand when that behaviour is upsetting.

My threats were never serious - and generally either excuses to post silly pictures or deliberate attempts to foster dislike towards myself. As for my little games, and my little girl immaturity, I can assure you. I have ALWAYS been upfront and honest about all of them. And that the only games that I played with YOU were the ones where I was TRYING to burn my bridges, and where I said as much. It has never been about judging people or hurting people, and there was a long time there where I was trying to do everything I could to tell you all that I can be controlling and that I was concerned I might be a sociopath.

My fun little games are the ones where I lose. I have nothing to gain here, and I can see that my behaviour has been more destructive than I ever anticipated.

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Friday, March 22, 2013 7:29 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

RIONA

Quote:
Upon further reflection, Cav is definitely who I'm really mad at, he insinuated that I don't care about Irish culture

I think what he said... along with many others who said the same thing... is that you don't KNOW Irish culture. You know only what pleases you. If you re-read the posts in that thread with that interpretation in mind, I think you will see this in many of the responses, just phrased more gently.

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Friday, March 22, 2013 8:43 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
Niki, listen to me, I'm dead serious here....I'm very concerned.... and it is freaking me out...And the second alternative is too horrifying for me to ignore.

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I wanted to know if something had you stressed out, or if something had happened to you or a friend.

The two do not jive.

Here I had hoped this silly thread had managed to die for lack of interest. You should let it do so.

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Friday, March 22, 2013 8:49 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
RIONA
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Upon further reflection, Cav is definitely who I'm really mad at, he insinuated that I don't care about Irish culture
I think what he said... along with many others who said the same thing... is that you don't KNOW Irish culture. You know only what pleases you. If you re-read the posts in that thread with that interpretation in mind, I think you will see this in many of the responses, just phrased more gently.

There are many ways to inspire people to learn more. Cav's was the the dismissive, shoddy, can't-be-bothered-I'm-going-to-score-some-points-on-you selfish way. Frem on the other hand is great when he tries to impart wisdom, it's like he's bringing you something special, a cake even, not trying to belittle like Cav did. Does Cav KNOW Irish culture? That's a pretty big thing to know.

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Friday, March 22, 2013 8:54 AM

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Originally posted by Niki2:
Quote:
Niki, listen to me, I'm dead serious here....I'm very concerned.... and it is freaking me out...And the second alternative is too horrifying for me to ignore.
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I wanted to know if something had you stressed out, or if something had happened to you or a friend.

The two do not jive.

Here I had hoped this silly thread had managed to die for lack of interest. You should let it do so.

They actually do. I'm trying to figure out if this new mockery thing you're doing is on account of something I did to you or something that happened to you independent of me.

I'm prepared to let it die, and I slept on it for a day and a half. But there were things I guess I just wanted you to know. You don't have to believe me anyway.

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Friday, March 22, 2013 8:59 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

CAPTAIN... yes, I tend towards the dismissive myself, not the best way to make friends or pass along information. OTOH, it seems to me that Riona doesn't recognize what is being said if it is said very gently (denial) but reacts badly when it is framed unmistakably (rejection). So, what then?

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Friday, March 22, 2013 10:10 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
CAPTAIN... yes, I tend towards the dismissive myself, not the best way to make friends or pass along information. OTOH, it seems to me that Riona doesn't recognize what is being said if it is said very gently (denial) but reacts badly when it is framed unmistakably (rejection). So, what then?

(opps... old login, pizmobeach/G here.)

So? Who are we? Sometimes it takes a while for stuff to sink in and people to act on that stuff - can't rush it, that's it, move on to things we can effect.

"Riona, if you cared...." is such a bullish*t line.

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Friday, March 22, 2013 10:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
doesn't recognize what is being said if it is said very gently (denial) but reacts badly when it is framed unmistakably (rejection).

This is something I see often in certain types of brains. I see it more in conservatives, but also in other types.

It's a foolproof way to not ever have to see another side of an argument, and to always be in the right.

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Friday, March 22, 2013 10:37 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...

Quote:
Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
doesn't recognize what is being said if it is said very gently (denial) but reacts badly when it is framed unmistakably (rejection).

This is something I see often in certain types of brains. I see it more in conservatives, but also in other types.

How many types of brains do you reckon there are?

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Friday, March 22, 2013 1:27 PM

Meh, I think Byte nailed it as usual. Rione is possibly not used to being disagreed with overtly amongst her family and friends. I imagine that the way they play out conflict is much more subtle. So to be openly disagreed with, as Cav did, even if it does not appear abusive to others, feels abusive to Rione.

In my family, on the other hand, it's quite normal to shout 'YOU ARE WRONG. YOU ARE WRONG' while thumping your fist on the table to emphasis your point, and nobody much worries. Just have to remind myself that it isn't the same for everyone.

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Friday, March 22, 2013 5:34 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Feh, my so-called "family", being descended from rambunctious appalacian hill folk generally "disagrees" by yelling, followed by throwing things, and soon followed by shooting at each other... not hyperbole, they really ARE that bad.
Of course, when gets really personal, it gets even grislier - but folks who read about those hillbilly murder attempts often fail to realize that much of the time even *that* doesn't do it, they need a LOT of killin to finish off.

Makes arguments a lot more.. interesting than I would like.
Compared to that crap a brushwar is downright civil.

-F

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Friday, March 22, 2013 5:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Quote:
Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
doesn't recognize what is being said if it is said very gently (denial) but reacts badly when it is framed unmistakably (rejection).

This is something I see often in certain types of brains. I see it more in conservatives, but also in other types.

How many types of brains do you reckon there are?

Oh, infinite. I think of brain as like long lists of traits. "Types" would be those with similar patterns of traits. It's always a partial thing.

This trait, the ability to shield oneself from having to hear something by either denying it or getting hurt if the message is delivered in a non ignorable way, I find common in people who have been damaged in some way. I'm not saying this about Riona, but about people I've met in RL. It's like their brains *can't* let a message in, so it's a protection mechanism.

It still can be quite annoying, to come up against that wall. And it happens over rather trivial information sometimes, too.

I think Byte and Magons are right. I also grew up with no open argument, so vocal disagreement sometimes comes as a shock to me. I've reached an age where I'm getting over that. :)

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Sunday, March 24, 2013 7:01 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

I'm actually fairly argumentative in real life. But that wasn't something I have ever been accused of, not caring about Eire. I was raised to know that people would always argue with me about religeon and politics, living in the city I do I knew that would always be a situation that came up in my life. So when people are rude about politics or religeon I am used to it and don't think much of it. But when people insinuate that I don't care about something which I do care about (Ireland) that is something I'm not used to. You guys know I'm happy to argue religeon and politics (to a point at least, knowing that I believe what I believe and you believe what you believe and we both have rights to do so). I've been here for two years, so if argument was going to drive me away then it would have long ago. But Cav pushed a button with me that I'm not used to having pushed. True Druidism isn't a part of Irish culture that is high on my interest list, but he was speaking so vaguely as to insinuate that I didn't care period about any Irish culture details, which as G points out are varied and include lots and lots of aspects.

The fact is that I know how to say more things in Irish than he does, I probably know about more aspects of Irish history than he does (even though he fancies himself an expert on certain parts, which he very possibly may be, but I probably know more in general). And I sing trad way better than he does most likely, since that's what I do as a performer. I bet I know more Irish songs by memory than he does as well as being able to sing them well. So I don't think he can insinuate that I don't care about Eire.

Plus this just kind of made me realize that since no one picked up on any of that at all they must not know me very well and if I've spent two years of my life interacting with people and they don't know me very well I don't think I'm really getting anywhere in this community, I might as well be rowing around in circles.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Sunday, March 24, 2013 8:44 PM

It did seem as though you were unaware of the history of St Patrick, or how he is viewed by pagans, as you were flabberghasted that anyone could have anything but a positive view of him.

Granted, Cav's response was pretty sharp, but it was (to me at least) not a thread in which you were abused. Clearly you have felt differently. Therefore I am of the opinion that you find disagreement with you difficult.

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Monday, March 25, 2013 12:10 AM

have you ever visited Ireland, Rione? I went once many years ago. Spent a very happy summer there, mainly in the western gaeltacht regions. I even stayed on an island where they had a summer school in Irish language. I didn't attend, but I always wanted to.

I enjoyed the culture very much, but I was glad I wasn't brought up there. Too traditional and old fashioned for me.

My sister in law is Irish. She has little patience with any idealisation of Irish culture, for I know as much she loves her home, she finds the hold of the catholic church, past and present, unbearable, which is one of the reasons she left.

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Monday, March 25, 2013 1:28 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

For the millionth time: His general opinion of the saint wasn't surprising, I can understand that coming from his experiences and beliefs, it makes sense that he wouldn't think highly of St. Patrick, and that's fair. Its the H-bomb that makes the situation worth commenting on. I spoke to my friend, who is simultaneously Jewish (culturally) and pagan (in belief) about the whole thing and she agreed with me that comparing anyone to Hitler is unsavory, unless they're like Pol Pot or someone else in regard to which there is _proof that they _killed millions of people.

My only complaint about the original incident was the fact that Hitler was referenced and the person thought that St. Patrick was _as _bad _as Hitler. That was my only assertion, that this guy is being a little bit of a drama queen.

Magon's, yes I've been there, I enjoyed myself thoroughly too. true I can't say all that much i nGaeilge but I can say more than Cav can I bet you, and him going and looking online to write florid and grammatically incorrect prose in a future post won't count in my opinion.

Every culture has its flaws, no culture is perfect. Different people have different ideas of what constitutes flaws and what constitutes good things sometimes, sometimes everyone can agree about flaws and good things, depending on the subject. People are people no matter where they're from.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Monday, March 25, 2013 2:06 PM

You don't dislike by halves, do you?

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Monday, March 25, 2013 2:55 PM

I'm sure we'll probably celebrate Hitler Day in a 1000 years. Wear little moustaches, and be kind to animals.

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Monday, March 25, 2013 3:18 PM

HKCAVALIER

Wow. Weird. Riona, you totally read into what I said and rather than ask for clarification you turned it into this epic condemnation of you and now you feel the need to leave the board all because you couldn't be bothered to ask me what I meant. Perplexing. Here's the quote again:

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And now after a couple minutes googling, I see that this information is readily available on the internet. Riona, if you cared, all you would have had to do was look it up instead of presuming that this guy was crazy. I find your breezy dismissal of the cultural devastation wrought by your heroes pretty disturbing. Have at least a little tact. Ignorance is no excuse when anyone can google.

Somehow you inferred that the thing I was suggesting you didn't care about was "Irish culture." No, I was talking about this poor guy you were talking to. If you cared (to know why this fellow was so upset) you could have done five minutes of research to find out. That's what I meant.

Instead, you simply dismissed him as "crazy." How do you like it when someone dismisses you as crazy, Riona?

Well, you couldn't be bothered. The question you ended up asking the board wasn't Why did this guy compare St. Patrick to Hitler? That question was never worth taking seriously. You weren't even curious. You ASSUMED that he was full of shit and a drama queen. And you expected the rest of us to be right there with ya.

And I found that offensive. I found your dismissal of the charge of genocide appalling. I thought it reflected very poorly on you and I told you so. Ya might even say it got my Irish up.

This is a sore spot for me as I too have Druidic blood running in my family. In future, if someone comes up to you and says their people have suffered a genocide by the hands of some hero of yours, I hope you do a little research to see what truth may be behind it before you insult them.

And for the record, Hitler's crime was attempted genocide. St. Patrick's was actually successful.

"It’s my estimation that every man ever got a statue made of him was one kind son of a bitch or another."

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Monday, March 25, 2013 3:45 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

Hi Cav, I did go and google after you said that and all I found was a lot of slightly fringey websites. I understand what you're trying to say, but I felt very attacked by your "breezy" attitude. Which helped me realize that none of you know me all that well even though I've been emotionally invested in this group for quite some time now. I probably know more about all y'all than you do about me, even though I do sometimes talk about myself and what I'm doing, as most of us do. I just kind of figured why bother spending time here if I'm not actually getting close with people, because that's why I spend time with people, for the purposes of building relationship. I realized that that isn't happening here and so there is no reason for me to continue posting here, beyond responding to threads that I started already.

Also worth mentioning is that I did not insult the individual that my story was about, I let him speak his piece and didn't really say anything, we were on the bus so there were ample distractions available, looking out the window etc. I would not call him a drama queen to his face, because obviously to him his feelings were very real and insulting people to their face is obnoxious. I could very easily run into this person again, and I won't call him a drama queen then either, because that is mean and he would feel personally attacked, because his feelings are very strong upon the matter. I'm only calling him a drama queen to myself and ... everyone else. I see the validity in parts of what he said, I'm not insinuating that he's stupid or anything, just that over dramatization, perceived or not, doesn't win friends or influence people, he's not my friend nor will he be until/unless he settles down a little.

Maybe I read into what you said too much Cav, but that's what it felt like at the time. But I still think its time to go. No one has given any reasons why not to, so its what I'm going to do.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Tuesday, March 26, 2013 6:22 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Hooo..eee! Riona, I'm amazed.

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none of you know me all that well even though I've been emotionally invested in this group for quite some time now.

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if I'm not actually getting close with people, because that's why I spend time with people, for the purposes of building relationship.

I say again; this is NOT the place to be "getting close to people", in my estimation, if there is any such place on the internet! You've been here long enough to know the fiery nature of RWED, and how many people have warned one another about just that, yet you think you're going to get CLOSE to people here? We are a bunch of anonymous people who only share one thing in common, Firefly, and obviously their political beliefs even dramatically shades how they view THAT. This is a place where people express their opinins--many don't even say whether they're male or female, or much of anything about themselves. Sure, it's easy to glean quite a bit, but build relationships?!? I find your statement extremely disingenuous at best. You "test" people and "experiment" with them without telling them...if that's how you build relationships, I'm sure glad I you don't have one with ME IRL! I'd dump you so fast it would make your head spin the first time I found out you had.

You wouldn't call that guy a drama queen to his face, but you would to everyone else? Again, I'm glad you're no friend of mine! I don't think you have a very clear idea of what an HONEST relationship IS, to be frank, if what you write is a reflection of what you truly believe.

I heartily agree; if you're intent is to build relationships and get emotionally invested, this is the LAST place you belong.

And everything Cav, who is a pretty damned decent and civil POSTER (I don't know about people IRL, only from what they post), said, is right on target. You DID come here to have everyone agree with you and back you up, and you had and still have no understanding of those who disagree with you. For future reference, if you really want to "get close" to people on the internet, look for cites where people actually use their NAMES maybe, or maybe address one another with, at the very least, civility...and stay away from politics! Just some unsolicited advice...

Shees...

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Sunday, March 31, 2013 5:50 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

I do hope you keep in touch, if you're really leaving Riona. I left here for roughly 3 to 5 years before coming back.

We know how to keep in touch outside of here.

If you do really leave, I hope that you walk away with more than you walked into the RWED with....

I really hope you're leaving because you have some wonderful things in your life that are eclipsing any desire or need to hang around here.

I managed to stay away for over 1 presidential term when I was only able to stay away from beer for 2 months. Others here say they're gone and are back 1 week later.

The RWED isn't a drug.... It's just like... well, a place where everyone knows your name ..... the TV Show Cheers!

"And your husband wants to be a girl.......".....

They sure didn't say that before Frazier downed his beers.......

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Sunday, March 31, 2013 6:59 PM